Gaming PC - €700

Harps

Hey, I'm thinking of upgrading to good gaming PC in the near future now the current console cycle is coming to an end. I'm not too clued its on some of the hardware so thought I'd ask here for an idea of what I can expect for my budget.

1. What is your budget? [€700], willing to go slightly over if its worth it

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? [Gaming, ideally modern games like Far Cry 3, Dishonoured etc.as high as possible. AutoCAD and CFD modelling a bonus]

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [Yes]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? [No]

5. Do you need a monitor? [Yes]

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [No]

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? [Not too familiar with it so at the moment, no]

8. How can you pay? [Credit Card/Laser/Bank Transfer/]

9. When are you purchasing? [Next 3 months hopefully]

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? [Galway, might give it a shot myself]

Thanks for any help

tuxy

Item|Price
8GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 MHz CL9|€36.74
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W|€54.44
BitFenix Merc Beta|€32.04
Seagate Barracuda 7200 2000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€88.02
EVGA GeForce GTX 660 SC, 2048MB DDR5, PCI-Express|€211.17
Intel Core i3-3220 Box, LGA1155|€105.98
BenQ G2255|€99.00
ASRock B75 Pro3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€68.24
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€714.62

Windows 7 will cost you another €82

An ssd would be a nice extra but not essential
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Solid-State-Disk/56866/Samsung+SSD+830+128GB+SATA+6GB%27s+Basic.article

I included an Nvidia graphics cards, it performs well in games and the cuda cores could help speed things up in autocad, depending on the type of work you're doing.

Harps

Thanks for the quick reply, on my phone now so I'll have a proper look at that when I get home this evening.

On the windows thing, probably a stupid question but I have a copy of windows 7 on my laptop, is there any way to legally transfer it?

And sorry for the hassle but could you get much of a performance boost for another €100? I might be able to source a monitor for nothing

AutoCAD work is all 2D so I'd imagine it'll run fine if it can manage games. CFD modelling might be more strenuous but I'm not overly bothered about it

ED E

If 7 came on the laptop then its tied to the motherboard/manufacturer.

If you upgrade to windows 8 for 15E I think you can then install it like a retail licence. Somebody will confirm/deny this in a minute no doubt.

tuxy

No legal way of doing it the licence you have on your laptop covers the laptop only.

Yes for an exta €100 you could go from a dual core i3 to quad core i5
You won't seem a big improvement in games yet but some of the newer stuff is starting to make use of more than 2 cores

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Socket+1155/63549/Intel+Core+i5-3570+Box%2C+LGA1155.article

If you don't need the cuda cores then a radeon is an option too for the same price
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/2048+MB/57774/ASUS+HD7870-DC2-2GD5%2C+AMD+Radeon+HD+7870%2C+2GB%2C+PCI-Express.article

But there is not much in it so you should be happy with either the gtx 660 or 7870

marco_polo

For 3D stuff autocad Nividia would be the weapon of choice for Autocad. However if it is only 2D, then any old video card is as good as the next (GT610M = GTX680M = HD4000 = HD7970:)), so you can base your decision soley on gaming performance.

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AutoDesk-AutoCAD-2013-GPU-Acceleration-164

CrinkElite

I'd definitely go for a quad core. Many games require a 3+ cores to run correctly.

tuxy

CrinkElite wrote: »

I'd definitely go for a quad core. Many games require a 3+ cores to run correctly.

Not true, there are a few select games that get a boost from quad core.
Quad core will probably more important in the future but it's difficult to predict.

kippy

CrinkElite wrote: »

I'd definitely go for a quad core. Many games require a 3+ cores to run correctly.

"many"
and
"correctly"?
Really?

CrinkElite

Battlefield 3 actually removers characters and animations from the single player game if it detects a dual core chip. so yeah "correctly" A lot of games require 3+ cores to get decent frame rates. I believe the Xbox 360 is 3 core system and that seems to have a major influence on game development and design. If you've tried to run GTA4/ARMA2 on a dual core you'll know that 2 cores is just not enough. These are not insignificant or fringe titles. Spending €700 on a gaming machine with an i3 is just daft if you ask me.

areyawell

CrinkElite wrote: »

Battlefield 3 actually removers characters and animations from the single player game if it detects a dual core chip. so yeah "correctly" A lot of games require 3+ cores to get decent frame rates. I believe the Xbox 360 is 3 core system and that seems to have a major influence on game development and design. If you've tried to run GTA4/ARMA2 on a dual core you'll know that 2 cores is just not enough. These are not insignificant or fringe titles. Spending €700 on a gaming machine with an i3 is just daft if you ask me.

Gta 4 runs perfectly on an i3 dual core where you getting this logic from? Battflefield 3 does not remove any animations are anything if it detects a dual core chip? There are crappy quad core processors out there which an i3 would completely destroy. The new i3 dual cores out perform some of the older i5 processors. A i3 would completely destroy this below

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Socket+FM1/51809/AMD+Athlon+II+X4+631%2C+4x+2.60GHz%2C+boxed%2C+FM1.article

challengemaster

CrinkElite wrote: »

Battlefield 3 actually removers characters and animations from the single player game if it detects a dual core chip. so yeah "correctly" A lot of games require 3+ cores to get decent frame rates. I believe the Xbox 360 is 3 core system and that seems to have a major influence on game development and design. If you've tried to run GTA4/ARMA2 on a dual core you'll know that 2 cores is just not enough. These are not insignificant or fringe titles. Spending €700 on a gaming machine with an i3 is just daft if you ask me.

Got anything at all to back that up?

Also you can hardly compare Xbox to PC gaming, as they'd be completely different in terms of coding. They'd have to be, because the hardware is always the same in an Xbox.

Tij da feen

CrinkElite wrote: »

Battlefield 3 actually removers characters and animations from the single player game if it detects a dual core chip. so yeah "correctly" A lot of games require 3+ cores to get decent frame rates. I believe the Xbox 360 is 3 core system and that seems to have a major influence on game development and design. If you've tried to run GTA4/ARMA2 on a dual core you'll know that 2 cores is just not enough. These are not insignificant or fringe titles. Spending €700 on a gaming machine with an i3 is just daft if you ask me.

Interesting. I run ARMA 2 on an i3 + 6870 and i get 60fps at 1080p with med - high settings. Also I can run GTA IV perfectly on my dual core. There are very little games right now that benefit from a quad core, barring BF3 and Max Payne 3... I think. It certainly will be needed more in the future but for the next while a dual-core will do grand.

Tij da feen

areyawell wrote: »

Gta 4 runs perfectly on an i3 dual core where you getting this logic from? Battflefield 3 does not remove any animations are anything if it detects a dual core chip? There are crappy quad core processors out there which an i3 would completely destroy. The new i3 dual cores out perform some of the older i5 processors. A i3 would completely destroy this below

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Socket+FM1/51809/AMD+Athlon+II+X4+631%2C+4x+2.60GHz%2C+boxed%2C+FM1.article

Actually BF3 does remove a character from the opening scene when there's a dual core for whatever reason. But an i3 will perform better than the Phenom x4 in most cases.

marco_polo

tuxy wrote: »

Not true, there are a few select games that get a boost from quad core.
Quad core will probably more important in the future but it's difficult to predict.

In all fairness, I think there are plenty of modern game engines around now that clearly prefer quad core processors, it is just that the i3s are still more than fast enough per core to compensate currently.

In many of these benchmarks the older dual core AMDs take massive hits in FPS when dropping from X4 to X2 cores, showing that the engines used by these games are very highly multhreaded already.

I suspect in the the next few years you will probably start to see the same for the i3s (relative to the i5/i7s), but as of now it remains a fine budget gaming CPU.

http://www.techspot.com/review/379-crysis-2-performance/page8.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/577-borderlands-2-performance/page6.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/591-medal-of-honor-warfighter-benchmarks/page6.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/608-hitman-absolution-performance-benchmarks/page6.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/615-far-cry-3-performance/page6.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/336-cod-black-ops-performance/page8.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/436-deus-ex-human-revolution-performance-test/page7.html

Harps

Right..so as far as I can tell from all that, a dual core is fine for most games released at the moment but a quad core would be better for future proofing?

I'll have a massive backlog of old games I've never had the chance to play so if I'm not going to see any great benefit I'm happy enough with the dual core for nearly half the price. Would it be possible to upgrade the processor in a few years time if it does start struggling?

What sort of performance should I expect from tuxy's build for games like Far Cry 3, Borderlands 2 etc?

And also can anyone verify/debunk this?

ED E wrote: »

If you upgrade to windows 8 for 15E I think you can then install it like a retail licence. Somebody will confirm/deny this in a minute no doubt.

marco_polo

Harps wrote: »

Right..so as far as I can tell from all that, a dual core is fine for most games released at the moment but a quad core would be better for future proofing?

I'll have a massive backlog of old games I've never had the chance to play so if I'm not going to see any great benefit I'm happy enough with the dual core for nearly half the price. Would it be possible to upgrade the processor in a few years time if it does start struggling?

What sort of performance should I expect from tuxy's build for games like Far Cry 3, Borderlands 2 etc?

And also can anyone verify/debunk this?

No the i3 is grand on a budget like this, its a pretty well well balanced build as is. Bear in mind that even in those benches I posted where it you see the i3 fall a little behind the i5/i7s quad cores, it is being paired with 400 euro odd cards like the GTX580/HD7970/GTX680. Paired with a more mid range card that fall within your budget like a GTX660 or HD7870, the GPU would be the bottleneck anyway.

To take Far Cry 3 as a quick example if you look at the CPU page, the i3 limits the HD7970 to about 55 FPS, however if you look back to the GPU page for 19200X1200, the GTX 660 can only pump out 45 FPS at the same settings anyway so the i3 is more than fast enough for it. In fact they are almost a perfect match for that game .

And you can easily upgrade the CPU in few years if needs be.

In terms of Windows 8 the system builder version is no longer tied to a the original PC you first installed it on so ED D is correct

http://personaluselicense.windows.com/en-US/default.aspx

Can I transfer the software to another computer or user?

You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. To make that transfer, you must transfer the original media, the certificate of authenticity, the product key and the proof of purchase directly to that other person, without retaining any copies of the software. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Anytime you transfer the software to a new computer, you must remove the software from the prior computer. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between computers. You may transfer Get Genuine Windows software, Pro Pack or Media Center Pack software only together with the licensed computer.

tuxy

Sound advice there from marco_polo.

The motherboard supports i5 and i7 processors too.
If you decide to upgrade to an i5 at a later date you will probably be able to pick one up second hand fairly cheap

Harps

Great stuff, thanks again

As I said I'll have a big backlog of games to get through so future games won't be a priority for quite a while, by the time it becomes an issue hopefully the i5's or whatever will be cheaper

Also for some reason I wrote no under peripherals, I should be sorted for a keyboard, mouse and speakers but are there any other essentials I'd need?

Harps

Any opinions on the GTX 660 Ti? Is it worth the extra money over a standard GTX 660 if I do go with an i3? I see for Far Cry 3 at least it gives quite a substantial performance boost but would the CPU then be holding things back?

marco_polo

Harps wrote: »

Any opinions on the GTX 660 Ti? Is it worth the extra money over a standard GTX 660 if I do go with an i3? I see for Far Cry 3 at least it gives quite a substantial performance boost but would the CPU then be holding things back?

You would still be hitting a GPU bottleneck much more commonly, so you would see better fps with the GTX660 Ti in the vast majority of games.

Getting into powerful Crossfire/SLI territory an i3 would certainly hamper performance in a greater number of cases (again much depends on the game engine, resolution etc), but who would really buy 2 x 7970s and pair them with an i3 anyway :pac:.

Harps

Thanks again, time to start getting some funds in order then. I might be back to annoy you again in a few months to get everything finalised!