Zanil????

mantua

Whats happening with Zanil? can't seem to be able to get it anywhere including off the vet and online??

slippy wicket

I'd believe the shortage will not be sorted out till February.

Muckit

mantua wrote: »

Whats happening with Zanil? can't seem to be able to get it anywhere including off the vet and online??

A lot of farmers have obviously bought into and started believing the hype that the animal pharmaceutical companies have been sphewing about the prevalence of rumen fluke :rolleyes:

thetiredfarmer

slippy wicket wrote: »

I'd believe the shortage will not be sorted out till February.

Well Slippy I think if you send away a couple of well taken dung samples you may be able to forget about the shortage of Zanil for a long time to come.

slippy wicket

thetiredfarmer wrote: »

Well Slippy I think if you send away a couple of well taken dung samples you may be able to forget about the shortage of Zanil for a long time to come.

Id agree totally, its not even a particularly effective liverfluke dose.

We are just using two doses of valbazan or generic version.
Way cheaper and more effectice.

And dont get me started on that fasinex conjob :mad:

funny man

Muckit wrote: »

A lot of farmers have obviously bought into and started believing the hype that the animal pharmaceutical companies have been sphewing about the prevalence of rumen fluke :rolleyes:

or maybe even the hype the farmers have let themselves believe in.

reilig

Muckit wrote: »

A lot of farmers have obviously bought into and started believing the hype that the animal pharmaceutical companies have been sphewing about the prevalence of rumen fluke :rolleyes:

Money well spent this year on this farm and a very cheap dose too. Thrive in young animals was noticably a lot better. Shine on coats of all animals. Its definitely something that I will be doing next year too.

Used the broad spectrum Levafas Diamond which also covered liver fluke and worms. If you're not treating for rumen fluke, you should at least be testing for it after such a wet year.

greysides

.............also covered liver fluke and worms.


But, but, but...............

From the datasheet:

Levafas Diamond Fluke & Worm Drench also removes most mature Fasciola spp. (flukes) present in the bile ducts of the liver.

.... most mature Liver fluke........... and NO immatures, a lot of fluke in animals at this time will be immature.

Ostertagia spp. (except inhibited Ostertagia larvae)

.... those inhibited larvae are rather important in a winter dose, causing 'Spring Scours' when they activate later in the Spring, both clinical and a seeding source for pasture.

If you're using other doses to treat the Liver fluke and Worms then the extra activity is an added bonus and if not..............well.......:(

funny man

i'm not blanket treating all stock for rumen fluke as i don't believe the hype. I have had cases and have treated them individually. I sample test all stock; dairy cows through milk and dung samples, all other stock routine dung samples and dose accordinally. Liver fluke is a much bigger problem and has far higher losses. dosing with products that don't give a good kill (90% of all types of fluke, also ostertagia type II) within 2 weeks of housing are a waste of money IMO.

reilig

greysides wrote: »

If you're using other doses to treat the Liver fluke and Worms then the extra activity is an added bonus and if not..............well.......:(

[/COLOR]

Indeed I did.

One of the great benefits of the BTAP discussion group was to get solid information and advice on this!

Username John

Dosed all sheep here with levafas, didn't do any samples beforehand, just bought into the scare mongering re rumen fluke...

And I am very glad I did - I have never seen a dose do as much good, ever. They scoured for a few days, and then they all dried up and really thrived after getting the dose.

This was on top of doing for fluke a few times already during the year...

So, say what you will, whether you think it's all hype or not... But I have to say dosing with levafas worked for me...

micky mouse

How long atfer housing do you have to leave cattle before you can use levafas.is it 7 weeks

funny man

Good men. Well was it the dose or the fact they needed a dose of something:rolleyes:.

greysides

micky mouse wrote: »

How long atfer housing do you have to leave cattle before you can use levafas.is it 7 weeks

I've not heard any recommendations for delaying using Zanil for Stomach fluke...............and I wouldn't use it for anything else at this time of year.


http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/pdf/AHI-RumenFluke-Aug2011.pdf

TUBBY

micky mouse wrote: »

How long atfer housing do you have to leave cattle before you can use levafas.is it 7 weeks

It six weeks after housing for most fluke to be fully mature. Won't cover everything before that.

Username John

funny man wrote: »

Good men. Well was it the dose or the fact they needed a dose of something:rolleyes:.

Not sure what exactly you are asking?
I guess the answer is both?

The sheep had been dosed for fluke already a few times this year, and they have since been dosed again for fluke.

All I can say is I dosed with levafas, and i found it good. You don't seem to think it would be worthwhile for you, which is fair enough...

greysides

Figures vary but most seem to indicate fluke mature at 10-12 weeks inside. It's a long time to leave fluke in animals after housing.

http://uk.merial.com/producers/dairy/fluke_facts.asp#6backgr

keep going

whatever "greysides"says i wont argue but i thought 8 weeks was good enough. dosent a 2 dose strategy cover it anyway-you are not going to let stock go untreated for 8 expensive weeks just to spare a relatively cheap dose(just as well too cause most of it ends up on the floor:rolleyes:)

funny man

Username John wrote: »

Not sure what exactly you are asking?
I guess the answer is both?

The sheep had been dosed for fluke already a few times this year, and they have since been dosed again for fluke.

All I can say is I dosed with levafas, and i found it good. You don't seem to think it would be worthwhile for you, which is fair enough...

no not at all just see guys dosing and double dosing cattle with Zanil, liver fluke is a much bigger problem imo.

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

Money well spent this year on this farm and a very cheap dose too. Thrive in young animals was noticably a lot better. Shine on coats of all animals. Its definitely something that I will be doing next year too.

Used the broad spectrum Levafas Diamond which also covered liver fluke and worms. If you're not treating for rumen fluke, you should at least be testing for it after such a wet year.

There is a thrive and a shine on the coats of my cattle to, despite having a very wet farm and not having treated for rumen fluke.

Not being smart now Reilig, but did you take dung samples, or how did you know that you had a problem with rumen fluke? Liver fluke, and worms in younger cattle, still remain more of a problem.

greysides

keep going wrote: »

whatever "greysides"says i wont argue but i thought 8 weeks was good enough. dosent a 2 dose strategy cover it anyway-you are not going to let stock go untreated for 8 expensive weeks just to spare a relatively cheap dose(just as well too cause most of it ends up on the floor:rolleyes:)

A two dose strategy would be fine for Trodax/Deldrax and Flukiver (say at housing and 6 weeks later) but for Zanil you'd probably need something like 4 doses at 1 month intervals, or equivalent (3 at 6 week).

You'd want to be a saint!

One dose at 8 weeks in would, as said, be a long wait but the last 4 weeks of fluke before housing would be missed. Housing in mid-November, that could be a high % of the burden.

Timmaay

greysides wrote: »

but for Zanil you'd probably need something like 4 doses at 1 month intervals, or equivalent (3 at 6 week).

You'd want to be a saint!

One dose at 8 weeks in would, as said, be a long wait but the last 4 weeks of fluke before housing would be missed. Housing in mid-November, that could be a high % of the burden.

This is where my all year around calving system becomes a royal pain in the hole, at least if you have say 60%+ of the herd on a tight enough spring calving interval you'll have a good stable at dosing any of the drycows with fluke while housed, but with all year around, even trying to keep track of what's happening is a pain. At the minute we dose on drying off and just after calving, so no need to hold the milk, but still big problems with some of the milkers. I'm working with the vet at the minute getting dung samples of the worst of them, and going to try get on top of the matter now.

reilig

Muckit wrote: »

There is a thrive and a shine on the coats of my cattle to, despite having a very wet farm and not having treated for rumen fluke.

Not being smart now Reilig, but did you take dung samples, or how did you know that you had a problem with rumen fluke? Liver fluke, and worms in younger cattle, still remain more of a problem.

Did it on the vet's advice. He 30 samples from farms in our area tested and all showed signs of very high levels of rumen fluke. As a result, he advised all farmers with similar land to dose - ours is a heavy wet land which was extremely waterlogged all summer.

Again, as was discussed in threads earlier, its matterless if you don't do it. You'll notice no difference in your cattle from other years. But, by doing it, i found a major difference. Meal worked better. Cattle were healthier. I wasn't fattening rumen fluke with meal.

At the end of the day, the discussion groups were formed to help suckler farmers to farm more efficiently and to make more profitable. Having healthier cattle has done both for me and at the end of the day I believe that this dose has saved me money!

So you have a better thrive and shinier coats in your animals than any other year. What do you put this down to?

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

Did it on the vet's advice. He 30 samples from farms in our area tested and all showed signs of very high levels of rumen fluke. As a result, he advised all farmers with similar land to dose - ours is a heavy wet land which was extremely waterlogged all summer.

Again, as was discussed in threads earlier, its matterless if you don't do it. You'll notice no difference in your cattle from other years. But, by doing it, i found a major difference. Meal worked better. Cattle were healthier. I wasn't fattening rumen fluke with meal.

At the end of the day, the discussion groups were formed to help suckler farmers to farm more efficiently and to make more profitable. Having healthier cattle has done both for me and at the end of the day I believe that this dose has saved me money!

So you have a better thrive and shinier coats in your animals than any other year. What do you put this down to?

I suppose I am ever the skeptic Reilig, it's just who I am, a bit of a 'doubting Thomas' if you will;) 'Show me the proof or I don't believe you' (not you in particular now Reilig... I mean vets, animal pharmaceutical companies, farm advisors, sales reps, IFJ etc (Jaysus.... feck only realsiing how bad I am! :rolleyes:)

There's an ad campaign at the moment telling people to cop on, if you've got a cold or a flu, don't use antibiotics, because like a broken pencil, there's no point! Now in all the years I've gone to the doctor with 'man flu' , what did I get from my doctor? Why? Here were medical health professionals that knew from their training that antibiotics were useless to cure colds and flus and yet were still prescribing them!!

Every year various health care professional conferences and away days are sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. Why is this?

I feel the same about vets, some farming advice evenings and animal pharmaceutical companies. 'I scratch your back, and you scratch mine.'

Drugs, for humans or animals, be they legal or illegal will always be about money.

You say....It's matterless if you don't do it. You'll notice no difference in your cattle from other years. But, by doing it, i found a major difference. Meal worked better. Cattle were healthier. I wasn't fattening rumen fluke with meal.

I don't understand what you mean by this Reilig. You have no categorical proof that YOUR cattle had rumen fluke, yet on your vet's advice you dosed with levafas diamond. A product, that as far as I'm aware, kills more than just rumen fluke. Could it be plausible that you cattle are doing better because you have killed other parasites other than rumen fluke?

It doesn't matter what you believe to be true, it's what is true.

Re my own cattle, if you read back, I did not say that they are doing better than any other year, but they are doing the same!

Username John

Muckit wrote: »

I suppose I am ever the skeptic Reilig, it's just who I am, a bit of a 'doubting Thomas' if you will;) 'Show me the proof or I don't believe you' (not you in particular now Reilig... I mean vets, animal pharmaceutical companies, farm advisors, sales reps, IFJ etc (Jaysus.... feck only realsiing how bad I am! :rolleyes:)

There's an ad campaign at the moment telling people to cop on, if you've got a cold or a flu, don't use antibiotics, because like a broken pencil, there's no point! Now in all the years I've gone to the doctor with 'man flu' , what did I get from my doctor? Why? Here were medical health professionals that knew from their training that antibiotics were useless to cure colds and flus and yet were still prescribing them!!

Every year various health care professional conferences and away days are sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. Why is this?

I feel the same about vets, some farming advice evenings and animal pharmaceutical companies. 'I scratch your back, and you scratch mine.'

Drugs, for humans or animals, be they legal or illegal will always be about money.

You say....It's matterless if you don't do it. You'll notice no difference in your cattle from other years. But, by doing it, i found a major difference. Meal worked better. Cattle were healthier. I wasn't fattening rumen fluke with meal.

I don't understand what you mean by this Reilig. You have no categorical proof that YOUR cattle had rumen fluke, yet on your vet's advice you dosed with levafas diamond. A product, that as far as I'm aware, kills more than just rumen fluke. Could it be plausible that you cattle are doing better because you have killed other parasites other than rumen fluke?

It doesn't matter what you believe to be true, it's what is true.

Re my own cattle, if you read back, I did not say that they are doing better than any other year, but they are doing the same!

Hi Muckit,

Hows it going?

So I am talking about sheep here, but as we are taling about fluke, I imagine the same 'rules' apply...

Do you do FEC sampling? I did a few last year (none this year, cos I am disorganized )
Anyways, the test last year showed rumen fluke, so I guess I know it was here, so I assume it still is...
And I would say that we are a mostly dry farm...

I will admit I don't have a great handle on FEC, and I defo don't have a good understanding of all the different doses, and how they work, which is better, etc...

But, from what I do understand, the statement of "Show me the proof or I don't believe you" is a bit dangerous... As *I think* fluke is difficult to test for, as it doesn't always show up in FEC tests...
But I am open to correction on the last statement, by someone who know more than me...

reilig

Muckit wrote: »

Could it be plausible that you cattle are doing better because you have killed other parasites other than rumen fluke?

Absolutely 100%, it could be possible. But its still from using the Levefas Diamond which would have taken care of any rumen fluke too. I'm covered both sides!

Re my own cattle, if you read back, I did not say that they are doing better than any other year, but they are doing the same!

Mine are doing better than any other year. As I said, since they got the levefas diamond there is a noticable difference in thrive and a better shine to coats.

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

... its still from using the Levefas Diamond which would have taken care of any rumen fluke too.

It would have killed rumen fluke if you had it to begin with! But you don't know this for certain. Everyone swears it was the antibotics that cured their flus!! :rolleyes:

Mine are doing better than any other year.

Now if you have being dosing every other year with flukicides (liver) and wormers (other than levafas) and have started using levafas this year and noticed a marked improvement... then there is a stronger case for you having had rumen fluke and levafas having killed it. ...It could also be that it is a better wormer/liver flukicide !! Or you dosed one more than you usually do!

Muckit

Username John wrote: »

Hi Muckit,

But, from what I do understand, the statement of "Show me the proof or I don't believe you" is a bit dangerous... As *I think* fluke is difficult to test for, as it doesn't always show up in FEC tests...
But I am open to correction on the last statement, but someone who know more than me...

I totally agree Username John. If I was right I should get sampling done too, like what you did last year. I am basically an ostrich with my head in the sand by ignoring this 'potential' problem and as good (or as bad) as the lad potentially over medicating for a problem that may not be there.

I wouldn't be in agreement with treating things without proof though.

I think that I will take samples now that it has been brought up. If I'm wrong I'I hold my hands up

pakalasa

Just what I've seen but - I had two adult cattle very scoury this year. Both were very thin and a bad smell from the scour. Both were done a month previously with Trodax. Did both with Zanil and both cleared up within a week or so. Both were young, one 18 months and one 3 years.
Other older cows in the same group didn't scour. So I'm thinking they have built up a stronger immunity.
I have also had young cows get very scoury in the past and have never been able to get to the bottom of it. Vet tested for Salmonella, nothing showed up. I tested all for BVD too and all clear.
I'm almost certain the problem all along was Rumen Fluke. We have very low lying land near the shannon. The problem always seemed worst when they were in that area.
So where do I go from here? Do I dose everything for Rumen Fluke? I was planning to do that. I was going to wait till the Liver Fluke had matured and do with Levamas Diamond. That would cover for everything including worms.

nhg

Ok Guys, looking for advise.

70 Bullocks aprox 500kg +, all done with blackleg & levafas diamond as they came onto the farm during the month of August. All out on grass until housed on 10th November. Thankfully silage seems to be good so far.

Was planning on giving each allsure bolus, levafas diamond & spot on (yellow) later in the week or next week.

Was told as already done with levafas diamond not to give it to them again this time - all advise greatly appreciated.

funny man

nhg wrote: »

Ok Guys, looking for advise.

70 Bullocks aprox 500kg +, all done with blackleg & levafas diamond as they came onto the farm during the month of August. All out on grass until housed on 10th November. Thankfully silage seems to be good so far.

Was planning on giving each allsure bolus, levafas diamond & spot on (yellow) later in the week or next week.

Was told as already done with levafas diamond not to give it to them again this time - all advise greatly appreciated.

For fluke and worms Levafas diamond is not a great product. It does not cover all stages of liver fluke and it dosn't cover ostertagis type II, the two most important things that need to be covered at housing. stock must be in at least 10 weeks for either Zanil or LD to be effective, to leave stock this long without covering for fluke is a big mistake IMO. also Zanil and LD are the only products that cover Rumen fluke so use sparingly.

What should you dose with;


Choose a wormer at housing that kills type 2ostertagia. Ivermectinskill type 2 ostertgia. Cattle are generally 6-7 weeks housed at this time.Closamectin kills worms and 90% of liver fluke. Trodax kills 90% of liver flukefrom 7 weeks housed. There is no known resistance to trodax. Closamectin pour on and trodax is best given to cattlenow as the final housing dose. If anyone used ivermectin and tribex two weeks after housing this does not apply.Fasinex should only be given to dairy cows at drying off. There is a resistanceissue with fasinex in sheep this is not proven in cattle. However it is prudentto restrict the usage of fasinex to dry dairy cows to minimise resistance inthe future. Ivomec Super given at 10% extra will kill worms, latemature fluke and adult fluke. Ivomec Super is better than it’s copies.

funny man

pakalasa wrote: »

Just what I've seen but - I had two adult cattle very scoury this year. Both were very thin and a bad smell from the scour. Both were done a month previously with Trodax. Did both with Zanil and both cleared up within a week or so. Both were young, one 18 months and one 3 years.
Other older cows in the same group didn't scour. So I'm thinking they have built up a stronger immunity.
I have also had young cows get very scoury in the past and have never been able to get to the bottom of it. Vet tested for Salmonella, nothing showed up. I tested all for BVD too and all clear.
I'm almost certain the problem all along was Rumen Fluke. We have very low lying land near the shannon. The problem always seemed worst when they were in that area.
So where do I go from here? Do I dose everything for Rumen Fluke? I was planning to do that. I was going to wait till the Liver Fluke had matured and do with Levamas Diamond. That would cover for everything including worms.

A bad smell indicates an infection of some sort. With rumen fluke dung shouldn't smell and is not watery in early stages.

reilig

funny man wrote: »

A bad smell indicates an infection of some sort. With rumen fluke dung shouldn't smell and is not watery in early stages.

AHI

Clinical signs of rumen fluke:

severe watery scour, which may contain traces of blood and a bad smell

funny man

Lets stick to whats on the web-site

http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/pdf/AHI-RumenFluke-Aug2011.pdf


Clinical disease is RARE
,
but a small number of severe cases have been reported with the following

clinical signs:

dullness

dehydration

rapid weight loss

severe watery scour, which may contain traces of blood

anaemia

low blood protein concentrations

swelling under the jaw, known as bottle-jaw, or in Irish ‘pocán’

reilig

I got my information from an AHI booklet given out at a BTAP meeting. It actually says that the blood is what causes the smell.

Even though clinical disease is rare, it doesn't mean that Pakalasa's animal did not have it (unless you operate some type of remote animal medical diagnostic equipment that says otherwise?????)

funny man wrote: »

Lets stick to whats on the web-site

http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/pdf/AHI-RumenFluke-Aug2011.pdf


Clinical disease is RARE
,
but a small number of severe cases have been reported with the following

clinical signs:

dullness

dehydration

rapid weight loss

severe watery scour, which may contain traces of blood

anaemia

low blood protein concentrations

swelling under the jaw, known as bottle-jaw, or in Irish ‘pocán’

funny man

reilig wrote: »

I got my information from an AHI booklet given out at a BTAP meeting. It actually says that the blood is what causes the smell.

Even though clinical disease is rare, it doesn't mean that Pakalasa's animal did not have it (unless you operate some type of remote animal medical diagnostic equipment that says otherwise?????)

I presume this is the same booklet we all can pick up at our vets! it dosn't say it on that either.blood causing a smell ???

i never questioned treating clinical cases, if you follow the tread you will see that is what i done. i just didn't compromise the rest of the herd on liver fluke and worms by dosing the whole herd with inferrior products like Leavafas Diamond or Zanil.

reilig

funny man wrote: »

I presume this is the same booklet we all can pick up at our vets! it dosn't say it on that either.blood causing a smell ???

i never questioned treating clinical cases, if you follow the tread you will see that is what i done. i just didn't compromise the rest of the herd on liver fluke and worms by dosing the whole herd with inferrior products like Leavafas Diamond or Zanil.

Its the booklet that was given out at out BTAP meeting. How would I know what booklet your vet has?

Nobody is talking about compromising the rest of the herd on liver fluke on worms. Everyone is aware that Lavafas Diamond and Zanil are not comprehensive treatments for liver fluke and worms. As greysides said in post #8, you will need to use and additional treatment along with Zanil or Levafas Diamond to get a comprehensive treatment of liver fluke and worms. I never advocated treating for liver fluke and worms with Levafas Diamond alone as my cattle received a number of treatments for liver fluke and worms this year - one of these being with Levafas Diamond!!

My view on Rumen fluke is that if your cattle start showing clinical signs, then you are a little late in treating. If one animal shows clinical signs and all the rest are on the same land, then isn't it likely that they all need to be dosed for Rumen fluke?

micky mouse

You are 100% right reilig..Animals that are grazing the same field would common sence not indicate that every animal needs to be dosed.Know a lad that has lost 10 sheep already with fluke.Bit late dosing when animals start dying;)

whelan1

had vet out a few weeks ago with a heifer. she wasnt scouring but i said i would do her with zanil and then endospec. i asked how long do i leave between the doses? she said you can give them both together..... i did . do not do it....heifer was dazed for a few days. i said it to vet on friday. she said she was wrong , not to do the 2 together. so am back to square one did one dose on friday

micky mouse

Whelan,you use endospec for lice is it.Do you find it good

funny man

reilig wrote: »

Its the booklet that was given out at out BTAP
meeting. How would I know what booklet your vet has?

AHI booklet on Rumen fluke -The facts for irish farmers and their vets. they don't do a range of them. they also put them on their web site.


Nobody is talking about compromising the rest of the herd on liver fluke on worms.
Everyone is aware that Lavafas Diamond and Zanil are not comprehensive treatments for liver fluke and worms.

So where do I go from here? Do I dose everything for Rumen Fluke? I was planning to do that. I was going to wait till the Liver Fluke had matured and do with Levamas Diamond. That would cover for everything including worms.

from OP

Rellig;Used the broad spectrum Levafas Diamond which also covered liver fluke and worms

As greysides said in post #8, you will need to use and additional treatment along with Zanil or Levafas Diamond to get a comprehensive treatment of liver fluke and worms. I never advocated treating for liver fluke and worms with Levafas Diamond alone as my cattle received a number of treatments for liver fluke and worms this year - one of these being with Levafas Diamond!!

My view on Rumen fluke is that if your cattle start showing clinical signs, then you are a little late in treating. If one animal shows clinical signs and all the rest are on the same land, then isn't it likely that they all need to be dosed for Rumen fluke?[/QUOTE]

From AHI
It is important to remember that the detection of rumen fluke eggs in faecal samples or the detection of the adults in small numbers in the rumen is not in itself a reason to institute specific control measures, as light infections appear to have no effect on animal health or productivity.The routine implementation of a preventive dosing regime for rumen flukes is rarely justified, except on farms where severe disease and losses have been
confirmed in the past. Because of the rarity of severe outbreaks, such a control scheme would be best designed and tailored for the specific farmin question, following consultation with your veterinary practitioner / advisor.
Such a scheme would aim to use treatment in a strategic manner to reduce pasture contamination, in association with other measures mentioned above.
Apart from the economic costs that arise from unnecessary use of any anti-parasitic drug, it is especially important to treat rumen flukes sensibly and sparingly, given that there is only one effective compound (oxyclozanide). The development of oxyclozanide-resistant strains of rumen flukemust be avoided at all costs.
The development of such strains is a distinct possibility if a single compound like oxyclozanide is used indiscriminately over several years.

DO

whelan1

micky mouse wrote: »

Whelan,you use endospec for lice is it.Do you find it good

endospec 10% is for fluke and worms its a white dose

mikeoh

Sent the best cattle I ever had to factory last week, delighted with them ,the lads said their stomach was full of flukes and their livers clean............does this mean I was lucky not to have lost one or that the fluke had no effect on them.........confused????

micky mouse

I would imagine that you had your cattle dosed for liver fluke but not stomach fluke.there is a difference.And if you were not feeding the stomach fluke your cattle would be even heavier:rolleyes:

mikeoh

micky mouse wrote: »

I would imagine that you had your cattle dosed for liver fluke but not stomach fluke.there is a difference.And if you were not feeding the stomach fluke your cattle would be even heavier:rolleyes:

I don't know what to think....I hadn't done them for any fluke ......and never had cattle to weigh and grade as well......maybe if I had they would have even better ,will never know

micky mouse

You must have seriously dry land,working paddock system of grazing if you did not dose for fluke this year;)

mikeoh

micky mouse wrote: »

You must have seriously dry land,working paddock system of grazing if you did not dose for fluke this year;)

Very lucky land wise thank god.......but doing them all with L.D this week

Joe the Plumber

mantua wrote: »

Whats happening with Zanil? can't seem to be able to get it anywhere including off the vet and online??

There is a shortage, I had to wait two weeks for my local co-op to get it in.

Treated two weeks after housing in early oct with cymectin (not sure about spelling) pour on for liver flike.

then a month later with Zanil, it says on the gallon that it also kills adult liver fluke.

From talking to fellas the other day, It seems that you should dose again with Zanil after four weeks to get a proper hit from it.

To be fair its a relatively cheap dose at around 1.50 per head per dose.

The cymectin was 8 euros a head.

Not sure if I am on the right road or not.

reilig

This is the AHI doc on Rumen Fluke that we were given.

http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/pdf/ArticleIFJ-10thApril.pdf

As you can see it states:

Profuse, foul-smelling, watery diarrhoea (sometimes projectile) develops 2-4 weeks after infection

The Vet at our discussion group explained that this smell was caused by blood.

I already gave my reasons for dosing without testing dung in various previous posts. I'm sure you will agree that my reasons for dosing were pretty legit and scientifically proven.

funny man wrote: »

AHI booklet on Rumen fluke -The facts for irish farmers and their vets. they don't do a range of them. they also put them on their web site.


Nobody is talking about compromising the rest of the herd on liver fluke on worms.
Everyone is aware that Lavafas Diamond and Zanil are not comprehensive treatments for liver fluke and worms.

from OP



As greysides said in post #8, you will need to use and additional treatment along with Zanil or Levafas Diamond to get a comprehensive treatment of liver fluke and worms. I never advocated treating for liver fluke and worms with Levafas Diamond alone as my cattle received a number of treatments for liver fluke and worms this year - one of these being with Levafas Diamond!!

My view on Rumen fluke is that if your cattle start showing clinical signs, then you are a little late in treating. If one animal shows clinical signs and all the rest are on the same land, then isn't it likely that they all need to be dosed for Rumen fluke?

From AHI
It is important to remember that the detection of rumen fluke eggs in faecal samples or the detection of the adults in small numbers in the rumen is not in itself a reason to institute specific control measures, as light infections appear to have no effect on animal health or productivity.The routine implementation of a preventive dosing regime for rumen flukes is rarely justified, except on farms where severe disease and losses have been
confirmed in the past. Because of the rarity of severe outbreaks, such a control scheme would be best designed and tailored for the specific farmin question, following consultation with your veterinary practitioner / advisor.
Such a scheme would aim to use treatment in a strategic manner to reduce pasture contamination, in association with other measures mentioned above.
Apart from the economic costs that arise from unnecessary use of any anti-parasitic drug, it is especially important to treat rumen flukes sensibly and sparingly, given that there is only one effective compound (oxyclozanide). The development of oxyclozanide-resistant strains of rumen flukemust be avoided at all costs.
The development of such strains is a distinct possibility if a single compound like oxyclozanide is used indiscriminately over several years.

DO
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pakalasa

I did the suckler cows and a few weanlings with Levafas Diamond last Friday. Christ, it's severe stuff. All of them scoury since and all gone off their food. Even the few weanlings, I was feeding a bit of meal to, left most of it after them for a day or two.