Insurance not covering pipe problem [was "Allianz"]

DeltaWhite

I just want to vent and need info from people who may have had similar problems!

Been living in our home 15 years now. Its the family home. My father has being paying home insurance for 15 years to Allianz. Of those 15 years we have claimed ONCE for a few hundred euro to replace a glass porch door that fell off and smashed when my brother closed it.


So fast forward around 11 years later since the last claim.
We have a leak in our bathroom that is leaking down into the kitchen and it is right above an electrical socket which is obviously a concern! We have to unplug everything located near the leak, anytime we use the bath or shower.


So we got a quote for works by a local builder who is not a cowboy. He is a decent man and he was honest and outstraight about the cost etc.

To try keep this short, Allianz have refused to pay for it as it is not "accidental damage" I cannot understand how we could be paying Insurance to them for so long that they wont pay out for this which could potentially turn into a bigger problem i.e electrocution of a family member (worst case scenario)
I understand that our insurance covers accidental damage but IMO this leak is a very serious problem, the walls are gradually wearing and also the ceiling. How can they not accept that this could actually hurt someone, as opposed to me spilling paint on the carpet - they will pay out for that! :mad:

It's an absolute joke and I'm totally disgusted after all the money my father & mother have given to that <SNIP> for 15 years and yet they wont pay out for something that is dangerous.


Can someone shed some light on this, I am obviously naive.....

Oryx

T&Cs from here

You must keep the Premises in good repair and take all reasonable precautions to ensure the safety of property insured and to prevent accidents.

Not covered:

Wear, tear, rust or corrosion. Gradual deterioration or any
gradually operating cause. The cost of maintenance. Mildew, rising damp, dry/wet
rot, moth, vermin, atmospheric or climatic conditions. Damage caused by any process
of cleaning, dyeing, repairing or restoring any article. Mechanical, electrical or
electronic defects, breakdown or malfunction.

DeltaWhite

Oryx wrote: »

T&Cs from here

Not covered:

Thanks very much for that I'm not great with all that jazz and I just found it so hard to believe that part of our house is falling apart and we will now have to fork out for it! Is there actually much point in paying House Insurance at all!! :rolleyes:

coylemj

OP, I recognise that you have a grievance but as has been pointed out, a leaking pipe is not an 'accident'.

If the pipes froze and then burst, that would be an accident but a leaking pipe is considered 'wear and tear'. You might as well ask them to pay to replace the worn out carpet in the bedroom as ask them to pay to fix a leaking pipe.

Pipe joints that are hidden away under floorboards or behind bathroom walls are supposed to be welded and should never leak, you may have a claim against the people who built your house but I can't see the insurance company covering the damage.

oldyouth

DeltaWhite wrote: »

Thanks very much for that I'm not great with all that jazz and I just found it so hard to believe that part of our house is falling apart and we will now have to fork out for it! Is there actually much point in paying House Insurance at all!! :rolleyes:

That's your problem right there. The insurance policy is not to cover the maintenance of your house.

kkelliher

You cannot answer this issue without tge detail if the exact cause of the damage

If the leak is from the waste pipe your insurance will cover the repair of damage caused by the water but not the cost of plumbing repair as this is wear and tear

If the leak is from the water aupply pipe your insurance will cover the repair of damage caused by the water but not the cost of plumbing repair as this is wear and tear

If the leak is from the grout on the tiles then there is no cover as this is a maintenace issue

If the leak is from the seals on the shower tray / batg then there is no cover as this is a maintenace issue

In any event the issue of electrocution will soley lie at your own feet. Its your house not the insurance companies and if you continue to use something that is clearly damaged then you only have youraelf to blame if something goes wrong. Get it fixed.

The insurance policy booklets (for those who have never actually read them despite paying for it evey year) clearly detail whats covered by the policy

kkelliher

coylemj wrote: »

If the pipes froze and then burst, that would be an accident but a leaking pipe is considered 'wear and tear'. You might as well ask them to pay to replace the worn out carpet in the bedroom as ask them to pay to fix a leaking pipe.

Pipe joints that are hidden away under floorboards or behind bathroom walls are supposed to be welded and should never leak, you may have a claim against the people who built your house but I can't see the insurance company covering the damage.

The damaged caused by the escape of water from a leaking pipe is covered by every standard house insurance policy.

It is a guarantee that every pipe fitting will breakdown at somestage in its lifetime. To say that something should never leak is a wish not a reality. You will not get a lifetime guarantee from any plumber or manufacturer for joints.

coylemj

kkelliher wrote: »

The damaged caused by the escape of water from a leaking pipe is covered by every standard house insurance policy.

Oh really? Maybe you missed this clause in the Axa Home Insurance Policy document...

We will not cover loss or damage caused:

1. by escape of water from a drain which leads to subsidence, heave or landslip;
2. while the home has been unoccupied or unfurnished for 40 days in a row or more;
3. by water leaking from shower units and baths through seals and grouting
4. to the part or appliance from which the water leaks
5. to any fixed water or heating installation due to wear and tear, rust, or anything which happens gradually

You said yourself...

kkelliher wrote: »

It is a guarantee that every pipe fitting will breakdown at somestage in its lifetime.

The last bullet clause above would say that you are not covered for general leaks unless they are caused by a specific event e.g. a big freeze.

kkelliher

coylemj wrote: »

Oh really? Maybe you missed this clause in the Axa Home Insurance Policy document...

We will not cover loss or damage caused:

1. by escape of water from a drain which leads to subsidence, heave or landslip;
2. while the home has been unoccupied or unfurnished for 40 days in a row or more;
3. by water leaking from shower units and baths through seals and grouting
4. to the part or appliance from which the water leaks
5. to any fixed water or heating installation due to wear and tear, rust, or anything which happens gradually

You said yourself...



The last bullet clause above would say that you are not covered for general leaks unless they are caused by a specific event e.g. a big freeze.

You clearly dont understand the policies and havnt read my previous post properly. I already said that eacape of water from seals and grouts is not covered (bullet point 3 above), i also said the cost of the repair is not covered (points 4 and 5) but the consequental damage is covered. The last bullet point refers TO ANY installation ie the actual plumbing system and not the damaged ceiling etc.

For clarity i can confirm 100% that damage due to pipe leaks is covered by the policies but the actual plumbing repair is not.

Drag00n79

So, if you had a leak due to a loose pipe in an upstairs bathroom, you would not covered for repairs to the pipe itself but you would be covered for water damage to say upstairs floors, downstairs walls and ceilings?

kkelliher

Shamrok wrote: »

So, if you had a leak due to a loose pipe in an upstairs bathroom, you would not covered for repairs to the pipe itself but you would be covered for water damage to say upstairs floors, downstairs walls and ceilings?

Yes, you are covered for any damage done by the water once it has escaped from the pipe.

If you have to do some damage to access the pipe to carry out the repair you will also have cover under trace and access to a policy limit. This is an allowance for repairs to items not damaged by the water but necessary to access the damaged pipe. An example is lifting floors to repair a pipe under the floor which had leaked down to the ceiling below. The floor would generally not be damaged by the water and therefore there would be cover under trace and access

Drag00n79

Thanks for that. It's something I was not aware of.

MugMugs

coylemj wrote: »

OP, I recognise that you have a grievance but as has been pointed out, a leaking pipe is not an 'accident'.

If the pipes froze and then burst, that would be an accident but a leaking pipe is considered 'wear and tear'. You might as well ask them to pay to replace the worn out carpet in the bedroom as ask them to pay to fix a leaking pipe.

Pipe joints that are hidden away under floorboards or behind bathroom walls are supposed to be welded and should never leak, you may have a claim against the people who built your house but I can't see the insurance company covering the damage.

That's the biggest load of rubbish I've ever read? Are you suggesting that all plumbing should be flawless for its lifetime and that the owner has a responsibility to maintain pipe work buried away in walls/under floors?

As already said policies cover consequential loss.... Escapes as a result of poor maintenance and things that are generally preventable are generally excluded and repairs to the appliance too variant on how it occured.

Outkast_IRE

coylemj wrote: »

Pipe joints that are hidden away under floorboards or behind bathroom walls are supposed to be welded and should never leak, you may have a claim against the people who built your house but I can't see the insurance company covering the damage.

Pipe joints that are hidden should be welded ??????????????

Honestly wherever you came up with that misinformation is beyond me.

An acceptable joint depending on materials used would be Compression, Soldered, Solvent Welded, threaded, Even pushfit fittings are condsidered acceptable when installed correctly. Any of these joints done correctly shouldnt leak ...... unfortunately when dealing with fluids under pressure and time with corrosion factored in .......... a leak at some stage during a systems life would not be a surprise.

That said i have been in 40 year old homes where there was never a leak.

coylemj

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Pipe joints that are hidden should be welded ??????????????

Honestly wherever you came up with that misinformation is beyond me.

When my house was built, everywhere two pipes met they were welded or soldered if the join was destined to be hidden away under floorboards or behind walls.

coylemj

MugMugs wrote: »

That's the biggest load of rubbish I've ever read? Are you suggesting that all plumbing should be flawless for its lifetime

Of the plumbing that's hidden away and inaccessible, yes.

Unless you're suggesting that a house needs to have it's plumbing replaced every 30/40 years or so like the electrical wiring. When are you planning to have your floorboards dug up and the pipes replaced?

MugMugs wrote: »

and that the owner has a responsibility to maintain pipe work buried away in walls/under floors?

I never said that a householder had to 'maintain' such piping, I said that it should never need maintaining because the joints should be installed to be permanent and maintenance-free.

kkelliher

coylemj wrote: »

When my house was built, everywhere two pipes met they were welded or soldered if the join was destined to be hidden away under floorboards or behind walls.

And i have been involved in many claims for leaks from soldered pipes and radiators so your a bit misguided in your trust of soldering. Pipe joints leak end of storey, dosnt matter what they are made of

kkelliher

coylemj wrote: »

I never said that a householder had to 'maintain' such piping, I said that it should never need maintaining because the joints should be installed to be permanent and maintenance-free.

There is no such thing as maintenance free plumbing. The very fact that water passing through them constantly guarantees issues with corrosion, leaks, and simply breakdowns. And of course like everything an intallation is only as good as the quality of the installation

MugMugs

coylemj wrote: »

Of the plumbing that's hidden away and inaccessible, yes.

Unless you're suggesting that a house needs to have it's plumbing replaced every 30/40 years or so like the electrical wiring. When are you planning to have your floorboards dug up and the pipes replaced?

When they leak would be a good time I think, Don't you?

You see, here in the real world, I appreciate that stuff goes wrong. A Pipe can freeze..... Split..... It could even be punctured by the stone on top of it over time..... There's a never ending list of reasons that could cause a leak and I accept that fact. Luckily I've also read my policy and know that any loss/damage doesn't have to be as a result of Accidental Damage and fortunately don't go giving out sub standard advice on things I know nothing about.