Sexuality and celibacy

ashers22

I don't know if this is a common feature among lgbt folk but it would be nice to get some perspective. I know there have been threads in the past dealing with people wanting to go back in the closet but I'm not referring to returning to a straight existence but fully accepting your sexuality and just not acting on it.
I'm starting to think thats how its going to be for me. I've spent a few years having fun and learning to accept myself fully but now I'm happy to put it behind me and get on with my life. It seems like less hassle than dealing with the complications of same sex relationships and theres the social element to it too which is difficult to explain (the gay community is minute and finding that one person within it is practically impossible) but I'm hoping I'm not on my own and theres a whole bunch of retirees out there who feel the same way and can confirm.

edit: I start a new job tomorrow and for me its a chance to start fresh, I don't want it to be part of my life there.

Locker10a

Ok i had to read that twice to understand it ! But to me celibacy is about no sex before marriage !! I think! Am i wrong? And basically you are considering entering your new job and not being "out"! So are you going to start looking for a partner on the opposite sex, because its to hard to find one of the same sex?? If you can do that you are bi!!!!

ashers22

Nope, celibacy is the act of abstaining from sexual relationships. I'm not interested in taking up with anyone, male or female as I said it's not about going straight I just no longer want the complications of not being straight interferring in my life, so I suppose if asked I would deny it. I've met plenty of women, most are only interested in having fun (most had bf's or husbands too) I live outside of Dublin so its not like the options are great. Theres also the social aspect too, I can't describe that part too well but I suppose it does come down to social expectations and its something I no longer want to deal with.
People are obsessed with relationship status and I know it will come up at some stage and without wanting to distance myself from my co workers I'd prefer if not being in one was the easier option.

L1011

Celibacy isn't known to be the most mental health friendly option out there, for starters. What may seem like solving a "complication" now is potentially creating massive problems for the future.

mnlad

i kinda get were your coming from on this, i struggled for years with my sexuality and finally gave in and accepted it, more so for my own personal mental health and thought ok im happy with who i am time to get on with life as before without focusing on it, i still had a belief in back of my mind that this wonderful blonde would enter my life and i would lead the happy so called accepted life , i went about life as normal for a few months and out of the blue meet a great guy now my boyfriend, but things change and you realise how much better it is to be in a realationship, im not out and he is only out to a few of his mates, its far from ideal and a long road ahead of us but im a much happier person for it both in my work and home life, id never dream of going back to ok better let on im straight and find a women because in the long time forgive me language it will f@#k with your head

ashers22

Ok, so I had my first day and it all went better than expected
I think I just panicked a bit but everyone seems really nice and I get the feeling it wouldn't be an issue there anyway. I just wanted things to be normal.
(I know much of the 'abnormal' I'm used to is due to the circles I've moved in over the last few years and I really just wanted to get away from that, the familiar and situations where people already know ) Looking forward to new beginnings anyway
happy happy happy happy

edit:thats exactly how it is mnlad, felt I just needed to accept for my own health and now that its done I just wanted to get on with things.

jaffacakesyum

Glad your first day went well

I don't think it's quite the same thing but I am seriously considering giving up on the lgbt life and giving "being straight" again a try. I know that's not the point you were making but I share similar reasons to you - difficult meeting someone of the same sex and when you do they only want 'fun', difficulty being out, difficulties with the social side of it.

Before people recoil in horror at me trying to change my sexuality, I am bi, so I guess I'm saying I will just try and focus on the straight side of that for the time being, because I'm getting too depressed about lgbt life!

Ambersky

ashers22 I would be concerned about the bit you wrote where you said

Nope, celibacy is the act of abstaining from sexual relationships. I'm not interested in taking up with anyone, male or female as I said it's not about going straight
I just no longer want the complications of not being straight interferring in my life, so I suppose if asked I would deny it.

I dont think celibacy is healthy when used to avoid or hide things.
Celibacy is a word usually used within the context of a person taking a religious vow and in this country we usually use it in reference to priests and nuns.
Among religious congregations celibacy is suppose to be used in a positive sense to free a person up but when it is used to repress relationship and sexual issues the results can be very damaging to the individual and even to other vulnerable children and adults.
Some people choose celibacy freely in order to have the time and energy to devote to other areas as monks priests and nuns do to free them up for religious studies and community work.
Celibacy is not freely chosen if the individual is using celibacy to avoid social pressures or to provide a cover for their true identity.
This is true whether in religious life or outside of religious life.

I think maybe the op is using the word celibacy within a narrow framework, to describe a situation it may be useful to also look at this Wiki article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celibacy

Celibacy refers to a state of being unmarried and, therefore, sexually abstinent, usually in association with the role of a religious official or devotee. In its narrow sense, the term is applied only to those for whom the unmarried state is the result of a sacred vow, act of renunciation, or religious conviction. Celibacy has existed in one form or another throughout history and in virtually all the major religions of the world.[

Abstinence and celibacy

The words abstinence and celibacy are often used interchangeably, but are different. Sexual abstinence, also known as continence,[3] refers to abstaining from all sexual activity, often for some limited period of time.[4] Asexuality is considered distinct from abstention from sexual activity and from celibacy, which are behavioral and generally motivated by factors such as an individual's personal or religious beliefs.[5]

In her book The New Celibacy, Gabrielle Brown states that "abstinence is a response on the outside to what's going on, and celibacy is a response from the inside."[6] According to this definition, celibacy (even short-term celibacy that is pursued for non-religious reasons) is much more than not having sex. It is more intentional than abstinence, and its goal is personal growth and empowerment. This perspective on celibacy is echoed by several authors, including Elizabeth Abbott, Wendy Keller, and Wendy Shalit.[

lazorgirl

hi ashers22, your post got me thinking again about the difference for me, in my sexual identity (which has both a personal & social meaning for me) and the expression of my sexuality (which can vary from basic physical/sexual pleasure to something more initimate,intense and fulfilling).
my sexual identity has undergone serious questioning and reflection lately but i have found it necessary to separate that from my sexual activity. i think that without nurturing our sexual selves, we deny ourselves the fulfillment of one of our fundamental needs, which surely cant be good for our physical, emotional or mental health.

floggg

I have to say, I really don't get what you're trying to do.

You said that you've accepted your sexuality, yet your choosing "celibacy" to avoid the "complications" that come with it.

I'm not really sure what the complications are or what it is you're trying to avoid.

To be honest, most of the complications people complain about in same sex relationships arise from people not accepting their sexuality fully or not bring comfortable bring out or comfortable with being out.

I also don't get how this will help you get on with your life. For most people, finding somebody special and sharing your life with them with is a large part of what life is about.

So cutting off that option doesn't seem like getting on with your life, it's seems like your cutting yourself of from a big part of life.

I just don't know what it is you think that this will do for you or if you are doing it for the right reasons.

ashers22

Thanks for the link Ambersky, I understand why people might be uncomfortable with the term and while I'm not religiously motivated I can relate it in a sense of personal growth and empowerment. I don't mean to sound scarey Flogg but I do share my life with friends and family. Granted, it's probably not what you had in mind but it's arguable that everyone needs someone to live a healthy, happy and fulfilled life. My sexuality appears to have been the overiding factor which has prevented me from forming deeper friendships and at this stage of my life that is what is more important to me.

I think maybe it is about reconciling the personal and social elements Lazorgirl, I'm just going to see where I go from here.

Peregrinus

MYOB wrote: »

Celibacy isn't known to be the most mental health friendly option out there, for starters. What may seem like solving a "complication" now is potentially creating massive problems for the future.

Fascinating fact of the day: [long-term] celibacy is associated with poorer health outcomes for men than being married/partnered is, but the reverse is true for women. Never-married women enjoy better health and life expectancy than married women. And never-married women who live in community - nuns, in other words - enjoy better health and life expectancy again than never-married women who live solo.

These findings are based on comparing never-married people with people in opposite-sex partnerships. I don’t know if there’s any data yet on whether same-sex partnerships have similar health consequences for men and women respectively.

This only looks at the effects of long-term celibacy. Most of us have periods of celibacy in our lives, either by choice or by circumstance, and there’s no clear evidence that these have any health implications, adverse or beneficial.

Plus, it's important to emphasis, we're talking here about celibacy in the strict sense of not having a spouse or conjugal partner. Long-term celibates may have sex from time to time, perhaps even quite frequently, just not in the context of a conjugal relationship. And it's probably the relationship, rather than the sex or lack of it, which drives the health and welfare consequences of being partnered rather than celibate.

floggg

ashers22 wrote: »

Thanks for the link Ambersky, I understand why people might be uncomfortable with the term and while I'm not religiously motivated I can relate it in a sense of personal growth and empowerment. I don't mean to sound scarey Flogg but I do share my life with friends and family. Granted, it's probably not what you had in mind but it's arguable that everyone needs someone to live a healthy, happy and fulfilled life. My sexuality appears to have been the overiding factor which has prevented me from forming deeper friendships and at this stage of my life that is what is more important to me.

I think maybe it is about reconciling the personal and social elements Lazorgirl, I'm just going to see where I go from here.

Has it though? Or maybe issues associated with it?

What issues exactly have you had?

Being gay itself doesn't prevent people forming relationships in my opinion and experience, but maybe there can be lots of issues tied into accepting your sexuality and living in a homophobic world which do.

I'm wondering if gay relationships are really the problem and whether abstaining from them is really the solution.

seamus

My suspicion here from reading your posts is that you have allowed your sexuality to become the definition of who you are, rather than just your sexuality. So everything you did revolved around being gay, the people you hung around with, the places you went, etc etc.

I have no doubt that's a normal part of the "coming out" process; revelling in the freedom to be who you are. But eventually you do have to move on and live a "normal" life, where everything you do isn't dictated by your sexuality.

Everything about your posts sounds like you feel suffocated by the "gay" label and pigeonholed in the gay scene, so that the rest of your personality is being ignored. I can imagine that being constantly immersed in the gay scene would also impose this pressure on you to constantly try and find a partner, and disappointment if/when you don't.
But that doesn't mean you have to give up on being gay. It just means that you need to adjust the way that you approach life. If you enjoy doing something (let's say running), then don't go out of your way to join gay-specific clubs, just do what everyone else does.

I'm guessing that's what you mean by a "straight existence", but in reality most gay people I've ever encountered approach life like this and don't spend a lot of time in the "gay scene". Failure to mix in the gay scene won't affect your ability to find a partner, and in fact without that constant pressure and tension you may find it much easier.

I could be way wide of the mark here as I'm not gay, but that's what jumped out at me from your first post and you've confirmed it with your subsequent ones.

ashers22

I was going to respond to Floggs post but I think you answered it for me Seamus. I absolutely do not and never have wished to be defined by my sexuality but that's how I feel it is. The only point I would make is that I haven't done 'the scene' much at all, I did initially but it's not something I'm actively involved in. (I hadn't been in a gay bar in over six months til last week and only then as I was visiting Dublin for a w/end) I'm even a member of a very 'straight' swim club and train in very 'straight' gyms. I don't even have 'gay' friends. It has to be said though that the attention I have received from women in my environment has mostly been due to the fact that they were already aware and it's that dynamic I would prefer was no longer there. The last girl was straight, I did not approach her, it was a headf**k and it was enough to put me off women for ever. I'd rather it just wasn't like that anymore. Thanks for the advice.

ashers22

Just for the record, it's not as if I wear a neon sign either. My best friend is male and often when we're out people will assume we're a couple, in situations where I think it's relevant I inform them that we're not and if questioned explain I'm not that way inclined. There's no shouting from the rooftops about it, I just happen to live in a small enough place. Besides which, I wasn't bothered about who knew because I wasn't ashamed.
What some people don't seem to realise is that I lived a very straight existence for long enough to know that the reaction from some women has a point of comparison. I'd rather not be your new best gay friend.

Medusa22

I get the feeling that this is more to do with the expectations of your friends and family? I'm wondering if you feel that your sexuality is a barrier between your friends and family and that you won't be able to be close to them if they don't consider you to be the ''same'' as them. People do make assumptions when they find out that you're gay and maybe you're sick of people treating you differently? That's the impression that I get. That you want to be considered a ''normal'' person and you don't want people to stereotype you as a gay person.

I'm not from Dublin but I moved to Dublin last year and I find things much easier than living in Cork, where I'm from. You say that you're not from Dublin so I imagine that perhaps people make you feel uncomfortable and like you don't fit in and you can't develop your friendships? Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand you to a large extent because I'm bi and I find that people make a lot of assumptions about me and my sexuality and they are also shocked that I don't have any gay friends and I'm not part of the scene.

For the record, I just haven't made any gay friends, it isn't like I'm avoiding it. I had a friend ask me if it was strange not to have any gay friends and I must feel odd when me and my girlfriend are with straight couples, it annoyed me because I feel we are all the same and I don't notice any difference.

ashers22

Medusa22 wrote: »

I get the feeling that this is more to do with the expectations of your friends and family? I'm wondering if you feel that your sexuality is a barrier between your friends and family and that you won't be able to be close to them if they don't consider you to be the ''same'' as them. People do make assumptions when they find out that you're gay and maybe you're sick of people treating you differently? That's the impression that I get. That you want to be considered a ''normal'' person and you don't want people to stereotype you as a gay person.

I'm not from Dublin but I moved to Dublin last year and I find things much easier than living in Cork, where I'm from. You say that you're not from Dublin so I imagine that perhaps people make you feel uncomfortable and like you don't fit in and you can't develop your friendships? Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand you to a large extent because I'm bi and I find that people make a lot of assumptions about me and my sexuality and they are also shocked that I don't have any gay friends and I'm not part of the scene.

For the record, I just haven't made any gay friends, it isn't like I'm avoiding it. I had a friend ask me if it was strange not to have any gay friends and I must feel odd when me and my girlfriend are with straight couples, it annoyed me because I feel we are all the same and I don't notice any difference.

Yep pretty much. Like I said, I was in Dublin last week and I didn't really want to come home. I can be myself and no one cares. I love Dublin. Unfortunately I can't move there atm but I will try get there more often, even if it's just to recharge the batteries occasionally. (no pun intended)