Black Cyclists

mistermatthew

In the professional ranks why is there such an under representation of black riders? Is it a cultural thing? Or is cycling like motorsport only for the rich?

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/346351/kenyans-launch-assault-on-alpe-d-huez-record.html

Surely there is an opportunity for teams to find a superstar in african marathon-specialist countries?

DirkVoodoo

Cultural. I don't want to get into the history of cycling, but it is far from being a sport for the rich, I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.

As for African countries, take a trip to Ghana some time. Football obsessed. Everyone wants to be the next Michael Essien and there are national competitions, shows, etc. that look to find the next talent. Football is, like it is in Brazil, a national identity and a way for kids growing up in slums to dream of a better (richer) life.

I don't think it's a race thing, "blacks not wanted", if that's what you were hoping for.

mistermatthew

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Cultural. I don't want to get into the history of cycling, but it is far from being a sport for the rich, I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.

As for African countries, take a trip to Ghana some time. Football obsessed. Everyone wants to be the next Michael Essien and there are national competitions, shows, etc. that look to find the next talent. Football is, like it is in Brazil, a national identity and a way for kids growing up in slums to dream of a better (richer) life.

I don't think it's a race thing, "blacks not wanted", if that's what you were hoping for.

No that's not what I was hoping for. And as for a sport for the rich, I know historically it isn't. However racing bikes is a comparitively expensive hobby in modern life was what I meant. I was just wondering was it this that made for the lack of African cyclists(Chris Froome excl.) or as you put it due to other sports popularity.

It's just when you watch long distance running I can't help but wonder what these guys could do on a bike?

DirkVoodoo

mistermatthew wrote: »

No that's not what I was hoping for. And as for a sport for the rich, I know historically it isn't. However racing bikes is a comparitively expensive hobby in modern life was what I meant. I was just wondering was it this that made for the lack of African cyclists(Chris Froome excl.) or as you put it due to other sports popularity.

It's just when you watch long distance running I can't help but wonder what these guys could do on a bike?

I think it's more than that. I can't find my Pantani book, but I seem to recall him coming from humble beginnings. The difference between him and a poor Ghanaian child is that there would have been plenty of cycling clubs in the area looking for young talent, neighbours who might have been willing to loan a bike, parents more willing to spend what small savings they had on a son with a talent for a sport that is followed more religiously.

Ask yourself, why are there not many Irish ice-hockey players or Canadian hurlers (please, don't give me obscure examples, It's a simple illustration). I think the reasons are purely cultural and not because of race.

I'm sure you could find plenty of African cyclists, but who is going to invest all the money in developing clubs, providing bikes and waiting 10 years for the first of the talent to come through when there is no shortage of cheaper talent available in eastern european countries, Italy, France, etc.

You might ask why the UK produce such amazing track stars, or why Russia produced the greatest chess players. Investment in infrastructure would be my guess.

mistermatthew

Yeah I agree with your reasoning.

It's just that I wonder if cycling was treated the same as running in african countries would they achieve a level beyond what is currently in cycling due to the superior physical attributes gained from altitude living for generations?

DirkVoodoo

mistermatthew wrote: »

Yeah I agree with your reasoning.

It's just that I wonder if cycling was treated the same as running in african countries would they achieve a level beyond what is currently in cycling due to the superior physical attributes gained from altitude living for generations?

Well, look at football. Pele years ago predicted a world cup winner from an African country and it's probably going to happen. You only have to look at the premiership to see that some of the top talent now comes from African countries.

Whether this will ever happen in cycling, I don't know.

Ole Rodrigo

Might be starting already

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/07/11/110711fa_fact_gourevitch

repsol

Not too many black swimmers,skiers, motorcyclists,jockeys either.You don't need money to be a top cyclist.You need talent and determination

Captain Havoc

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Well, look at football. Pele years ago predicted a world cup winner from an African country and it's probably going to happen. You only have to look at the premiership to see that some of the top talent now comes from African countries.

Whether this will ever happen in cycling, I don't know.

Depends if anyone will invest in African cycling. I think Sky put a lot of money into British cycling because they felt they could develop the product, much the same as the Premier league (but on a smaller scale). If teams believe they can get better cyclists from Africa, they'll invest. It's all about the money.

DirkVoodoo

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Depends if anyone will invest in African cycling. I think Sky put a lot of money into British cycling because they felt they could develop the product, much the same as the Premier league (but on a smaller scale). If teams believe they can get better cyclists from Africa, they'll invest. It's all about the money.

See earlier post. Why would anyone invest when there is "cheaper" talent already available coming from clubs in europe. British cycling had olympic ambitions, it's not quite the same as the TV revenue to be earned from premiership football.

nilhg

ror_74 wrote: »

Might be starting already

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/07/11/110711fa_fact_gourevitch

Nice find, a great read.

Beasty

Cycling is traditionally a European sport. In the past few decades it has grown as a sport globally, with more interest emanating from the Americas and Australasia. It's now expanding rapidly in the rest of the Asia Pacific region, largely because the commercial interests (mainly bike and other equipment manufacturers) see these markets as profitable. Unfortuately Africa is probably not seen as a region where these commercial interests will make signifiant returns in the short term. However over time I am sure this will happen as the overall wealth of the continent grows. That's when more natural talent will come through

repsol

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Depends if anyone will invest in African cycling. I think Sky put a lot of money into British cycling because they felt they could develop the product, much the same as the Premier league (but on a smaller scale). If teams believe they can get better cyclists from Africa, they'll invest. It's all about the money.

There are millions of blacks in Britain.They don't all live in Africa!They seem to be either uninterested or unable to make it in cycling.

Brian?

I suppose it's inevitable that one day we'll see a great African cyclist but its a simple matter of geography that we haven't seen one yet.

Top class cyclists traditionally come from coutries bordering France, there's a reason le Tour is the biggest race in the world. It was only 30 years ago Sean Kelly was considered a novelty in pro cycling.

opti0nal

I think it's partly economic and partly cultural.

Former colonies do have national cycling events. South Africa has had pro teams like BarloWorld (mostly European riders) and MTN Quebeka.

Rwanda recently had a national tour. The Tour de (Burkina) Fasso has been a major event for decades. Algeria, Gabon, Libya, Ethiopia, Ivory Coast, Camaroon all claim UCI-registered events. Strangely, South Africa, althougn relatively wealthy has no UCI events since the demise of the Giro del Capo. But it has a massive MTB and leisure scene with some local events like Tour of the Free State and the Tour de Boland.

But, to compete, you need to be able to afford the equipment and the time off. And... good roads.

padjo5

I've often wondered about this myself. Why I have spotted maybe 1 black cyclist on pro tour, bearing in mind that a decent proportion of the population in traditional 'cycling countries' in europe are black...(forgetting the African argument for a moment)

Seeing as cycling is a large part 'endurance' itd be interesting to see how strong the Kenyans etc would be if they put efforts into it...I reckon they'd put us in our box!

Brian?

padjo5 wrote: »

I've often wondered about this myself. Why I have spotted maybe 1 black cyclist on pro tour, bearing in mind that a decent proportion of the population in traditional 'cycling countries' in europe are black...(forgetting the African argument for a moment)

Seeing as cycling is a large part 'endurance' itd be interesting to see how strong the Kenyans etc would be if they put efforts into it...I reckon they'd put us in our box!

Kenyans aren't genetically better runners though. They are better because the run a lot at a young age.

Beasty

Brian? wrote: »

Kenyans aren't genetically better runners though. They are better because the run a lot at a young age.

... and at altitude - not so easy getting a road bike up Mount Kenya

nak

Good article here about Maurice Burton. Crazy to think that British Cycling treated him like that.
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/default.asp?pg=fullstory&id=3596

Things look much more positive for his son:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9556124/Maurice-Burton-is-glad-his-son-Germain-wont-face-prejudice-that-blighted-his-cycling-career-in-the-1970s.html

greendom

This guy is pretty good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%A9gory_Baug%C3%A9

wav1

Seen Maurice Burton at the Worlds in Holland a few months ago.His son has real talent.
Also does anyone remember Mark Mc kay causing pain in the ras way back in the ninties?
Also remember quite a good team came to the ras in the seventies from Algeria.Theres also a good young lad of South African origin coming through the Irish youth cycling system at the moment.

dastardly00

I'm surprised that there aren't some African/American cyclists in the Peloton?

breezy1985

Europcar have 2 black riders in there pro ranks.Gene who is I think the only black rider ever in the tour de france and Reza.

But theres no big conspiracy or mystery its just about culture and influence.

Wibbs

Brian? wrote: »

Kenyans aren't genetically better runners though. They are better because the run a lot at a young age.

Well there is evidence of local adaptation to the high altitudes that make them more efficient at transporting O2. Plus running was used culturally to get info around the various villages. Of course like you say running is a big deal among the kids because of early success, so that pushes the success and selects guys and gals that would otherwise not bother. That's a biggie. There are no doubt Boardsies hanging out in the arts and crafts forum or whatever that have natural VO2 maxes that would begin to worry Greg LeMond and because exercise/sport may not be their bag they never found out they had the talent. I remember chatting with an English gym trainer bloke and I asked him had anyone ever surprised him at an evaluation. He said only the once. Some "nerdy" bloke came in haranged by his girlfriend to get fit, a bit soft around the middle, 20 a day smoker, major sit on his arse, have few beers gamer etc. A real stereotype. Well they stuck him on the treadmill and this guy just kept going(bitching all the way ). On paper he looked like a wreck yet his results looked like a far fitter man. He passed the various stress tests and is heartrate dropped like a stone when he stopped each one. Now if he'd have grown up in an environment that pushed athletic ability he may have had a very different focus.

Running is also bloody cheap and easier to do on the non roads the African lads contend with in their neck of the woods. Unless somebody air drops cyclocross bikes *hatches cunning plan... *

Yes some groups appear to have some genetic advantages. People of ex slave trade ancestry do show measurable increased ability overall, because of the selection pressures of that awful time. However that does not mean all of them, just the odd one and depending on what sport in in their environment that's the sport that benefits. Some gobshítes even today suggest African people can't swim. Yea well they used to say that about tennis, but Arthur Ashe proved that to be arse and then the Willams sisters cemented that. Even take track sports. "Oh yes the Blacks dominate". Well historically some events they didn't. Look at the middle distance stuff, in particular the mile. It was considered the "European" distance. The Brits damn near dominated it for many decades. Does this mean a bloke from Exeter is more likely to be a "genetic" miler compared to say a bloke from Harare? Eh no, it just means the bloke from Exeter is more likely to think it's his sport and more likely to take it up. And so it is with cycling.

Look out if Tibetans ever decide to take up endurance sports Remember the Columbians in the 80's in cycling? At one point they could have changed their national flag to polka dot they were winning so much in the mountains.

Beasty

It's only 10 years since the Kenyan and Gambian teams turned up to the Commonwealth Games without any road bikes. Training facilities and coaching resources in some of these countries are going to be limited, resulting in a very low proportion of the population progressing in the sport

cameramonkey

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/31/cycling-in-yemen-struggle

read this a few months ago, it shows the difficulty in cycling in areas where there is little tradition.

MungoMan

There was a famous black Irish cyclist 20 years ago called Sean Kelly

dave2pvd

Good timing with this thread.

8hrs ago, this guy overtook me in a CX race.



No bloody way could I hang on to his wheel on the straights (he actually can't corner). He went on to finish 2nd.

His name is Frank Travieso. He's been at or near the top of the US Criterium scene for years. While racing over here is predominantly white, there are some black riders (Iván Domínguez, Rashaan Bahati, Justin Williams) that compete at the highest level, particularly on the national crit circuit.

TheBlaaMan

ror_74 wrote: »

Might be starting already

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/07/11/110711fa_fact_gourevitch

Adrien Niyonshuti, mentioned in this article, competed in his first UCI European Road race in the 2009 Tour of Ireland

monkeyslayer

Spent some time the summer before last filming in Eldoret on mt Kenya where most of the kenyan marathon runners are based... its at high altitude... there was a lot of cycling going on too... I'd give it another ten years at least before any thing major becomes of it but theres definatly investement and lot of interest from the cycling world going on up there, either in conjunction or separate from the athletics side of it.

531

I recently saw some documents/photos relating to the founding of a local cycling club c1900. I was surprised to see that most of the people involved had English/Protestant/settler names. This was explained to me as being because bikes were expenisive and these were the people who could afford them. Maybe Africans today are like the 'native' Irish over 100 years ago and simply, as was said earlier, cannot afford cycling.

enas

Some nice inspirational stories here. But there are two questions here really. It's rather easy to speculate on why there are not more cyclists from African countries. However, why is it that, putting aside any political correctness, cycling is a sport that attracts mainly white blokes in European countries?

I will mention a country I know well (since I've lived there for quite a few years), France, which has the largest Black population in Europe (probably around 8-10% of the population). You will find exceptions of course, but it's quite striking how you see almost no black in cycling, from local clubs to professional teams. The most likely explanation I can see here is a sort of a catch-22 situation: since there are no popular cycling heroes that are black, cycling attracts young black dudes less than other sports, which results in less chance to see great black cyclists. I imagine the same can be said of female cyclists, to make the connection with a question that was asked in another recent thread. That's pure speculation on my part though.

greendom

enas wrote: »

Some nice inspirational stories here. But there are two questions here really. It's rather easy to speculate on why there are not more cyclists from African countries. However, why is it that, putting aside any political correctness, cycling is a sport that attracts mainly white blokes in European countries?

I will mention a country I know well (since I've lived there for quite a few years), France, which has the largest Black population in Europe (probably around 8-10% of the population). You will find exceptions of course, but it's quite striking how you see almost no black in cycling, from local clubs to professional teams. The most likely explanation I can see here is a sort of a catch-22 situation: since there are no popular cycling heroes that are black, cycling attracts young black dudes less than other sports, which results in less chance to see great black cyclists. I imagine the same can be said of female cyclists, to make the connection with a question that was asked in another recent thread. That's pure speculation on my part though.

Is Bauge not well known/liked in France then ?

enas

greendom wrote: »

Is Bauge not well known/liked in France then ?

I don't know about now (it's been over 6 years I left), but back then he was definitely not well known to the masses (I doubt I knew him myself). In fact, track cycling isn't at all that popular in France either (well, surely not as much as it seems to be in Britain for example). But even supposing he would count as a role model to the youths of today, it's only in a few decades that I would be able to validate or disprove my point

Lusk Doyle

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mtn-qhubeka-sowing-seeds-for-african-cycling

QueensGael

Adding to the literature review on this
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/sports/cycling/in-country-of-runners-kenyan-cycling-team-faces-uphill-climb.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&smid=fb-share

Lack of cycling culture and lack of roads cited as main challenges