YOUR LIONS 2013 PICKS

Elzevir

Bout time we started a Lions thread..

I'm using GT's Lion's article of yesterday as a template, assuming he is correct about the squad size and number of players in each position.. 36 players..

FB: Kearney, Halfpenny, Foden (3)
Wing: Bowe, North, Cuthbert, Gilroy (4)
Centre: BOD, Tuilagi, Roberts, Davies (4)
FH: Sexton, Priestland, Laidlaw (3)
SH: Youngs, Phillips, Care (3)
Prop: Healy, Cole, Corbisiero, Jones, Jenkins (5)
Hooker: Best, Strauss, Youngs (3)
Lock: Gray, Ryan, McCarthy, Wyn Jones (4)
Flank: Warburton, O'Brien, Ferris, Wood, Tipuric (5)
8: Heaslip, Morgan (2)

.ak

Personally I'd go with....

FB: Kearney, Halfpenny, Hogg (3)
Wing: Bowe, North, Cuthbert, Fitzgerald (4)
Centre: BOD, Tuilagi, Beck, Davies (4)
FH: Sexton, Wilko, Biggar (3)
SH: Care, Youngs, Phillips (3)
Prop: Healy, Cole, Corbisiero, Jones, Jenkins (5)
Hooker: Best, Strauss, Hartley (3)
Lock: Gray, Ryan, O'Connell, Ryan Jones (4)
Flank: Warburton, O'Brien, Ferris, Wood, Tipuric (5)
8: Heaslip, Denton (2)

Higher

Ashton is miles ahead of Gilroy and Fitzgerald (is that a joke!?) in the selectors minds!

.ak

Fitzgerald should be fit by January, that's a fair bit of time to get his form back for the 6n, provided he stays injury free.. He's far better than Ashton on form. Is he better than Gilroy? That's debatable. We'll need to see more of Gilroy in a green shirt.

Glass Prison 1214

Elzevir wrote: »

Bout time we started a Lions thread..

I'm using GT's Lion's article of yesterday as a template, assuming he is correct about the squad size and number of players in each position.. 36 players..

FB: Kearney, Halfpenny, Foden (3)
Wing: Bowe, North, Cuthbert, Gilroy (4)
Centre: BOD, Tuilagi, Roberts, Davies (4)
FH: Sexton, Priestland, Laidlaw (3)
SH: Youngs, Phillips, Care (3)
Prop: Healy, Cole, Corbisiero, Jones, Jenkins (5)
Hooker: Best, Strauss, Youngs (3)
Lock: Gray, Ryan, McCarthy, Wyn Jones (4)
Flank: Warburton, O'Brien, Ferris, Wood, Tipuric (5)
8: Heaslip, Morgan (2)

FB: Halfpenny, Kearney, Mike Brown
Wing: Bowe, North, Cuthbert, Visser
Centre: BOD, Roberts, Tuilagi, Davies
FH: Sexton, Burns, Jackson
SH: Care, Youngs, Philips
Prop: Healy, Corbisiero, Jones, Cole, Ross
Hooker: Best, Strauss, Hartley
Lock: Gray, Lawes, Ryan, Charteris
Flanker: Ferris, SOB, Lydiate, Tipuric, Robshaw
8: Heaslip, Morgan

.ak

Oh I forgot about Visser! I'd be 50/50 about North and Visser. Both have their limitations. I'd like to see Visser given a go though.

Also forgot Robshaw. On current form I'd have him ahead of Warburton.

Hagz

LH: Healy, Jenkins, Corbisiero
HK: Best, Strauss, Youngs
TH: Jones, Cole
LK: Gray, Launchbury, Lawes, Ryan, O'Connell
BF: Ferris, Lydiate
OF: O'Brien, Warburton
N8: Heaslip, Faletau
SH: Phillips, Youngs, Murray
OH: Sexton, Farrell
CT: Davies, Tuilagi, O'Driscoll, Roberts, Barritt
WG: Bowe, North, Ashton, Cuthbert, Visser
FB: Kearney, Halfpenny

Profiler

Hi I'm Stephen Jones and I'm the greatest aficionado on Rugby in the World. The Sunday Times work for me.

Here is my Lions squad for the 3 test series against Australia, a squad you will agree that will win the series five nil.

Lose Head: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Hooker: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Tight Head: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Lock: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Blind Side Flanker: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Open Side: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Number 8: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Scrum Half: Rob Howley and Gavin Henson
Out Half: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Centers: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, and Gavin Henson
Wing: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, and Gavin Henson
FB: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson

irishbucsfan

For me it'd be:

Kearney, Halfpenney, Brown
North, Bowe, Visser, Ashton
Davies, Tuilagi, BOD, Barritt
Sexton, Farrell
Care, Youngs, Murray
Heaslip, Morgan
Ferris, O'Brien, Lydiate, Robshaw, Warburton
Ryan, Lawes, Gray, Evans, Jones
Jones, Cole
Best, Strauss, Youngs
Jenkins, Healy, Corbusiero

Glass Prison 1214

Profiler wrote: »

Hi I'm Stephen Jones and I'm the greatest aficionado on Rugby in the World. The Sunday Times work for me.

Here is my Lions squad for the 3 test series against Australia, a squad you will agree that will win the series five nil.

Lose Head: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Hooker: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Tight Head: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Lock: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Blind Side Flanker: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Open Side: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Number 8: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Scrum Half: Rob Howley and Gavin Henson
Out Half: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson
Centers: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, and Gavin Henson
Wing: Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, Gavin Henson, and Gavin Henson
FB: Gavin Henson and Gavin Henson

I agree with most of this, however I think you got your scrumhalves wrong, instead of Rob Howley I would bring a 35th Gavin Henson.

rrpc

It's still a bit early to be picking since we have a lot of rugby to get through and are unlikely to get through it without a lot of injuries.

One thing I would say is that there may well be something of the approach that Ian McGeechan took in 2009 (where Gatland was also on the coaching ticket) where he took a holistic view on positions and chose partnerships so as to minimise the effect of unfamiliarity of guys playing with each other for the first time.

I would suspect that therefore for example if Gatland was to choose an English SH, he'd also take his OH partner.

jamiedav2011

I think a lot are over estimating a few of our outside backs and underestimating others.

For me, Visser and Ashton (who's an excellent winger btw, some are definitely clouded by the swam dive), would be pushing to start never mind being selected, and we've North, Bowe and Cuthbert who are pretty much guaranteed to tour.

Earls, Zebo, Gilroy and Fitz in particular will be very lucky to be picked, particularly given Foden, Brown and Halfpenny can all play wing too, and the form of Alex Goode who can also play across the backline.

Fits Morris

Test XV and first replacements

Halfpenny (Kearney)
Ashton (Bowe)
Tuilagi (O'Driscoll)
Roberts (Barritt)
North (Visser)
Farrell (Cipriani)
Youngs (Phillips)
Faletau (Heaslip)
Robshaw (Warburton)
Wood (Lydiate)
Launchbury (Lawes)
Gray (Charteris)
Cole (Jones)
Best (Strauss)
Corbisiero (Jenkins)

Elzevir

How much do I hate Stephen Jones?

''Bowe gets a place due to Simpson-Daniel (that most overrated cuddly little care bear winger of all time and doesn't even play for his country) being injured"..

THAT is what I hate about the thick tw*t..

Ashton is not an 'excellent winger'.. far too inconsistent, likes nothing more than going utterly missing along with the rest of the team, one freakishly good win yesterday doth not a good team make..

NEW ZEALAND HAD FOOD POISONING, and I I were them I would be pressing full charges against the hotel concerned.. I am a chef and there is absolutely no excuse, it is an absolute disgrace (especially when you consider how we now have to deal with an up themselves England setup all over again re: Lion's time). Anyway they WILL get put back in their place in the 6N..

A lot of you are leaving players out and not selecting the right number.. they are taking 36 players not 35, 3 fly halves not 2 etc.. AND THIS IS ABOUT THE FULL SQUAD not the test team.. don't be lazy, the test team is very obvious..please refer to the original post if you are not sure of anything..

.ak

Folks, as per the charter, no abuse of players, pundits or otherwise will be tolerated.

Elzevir

Fits Morris wrote: »

Test XV and first replacements

Halfpenny (Kearney)
Ashton (Bowe)
Tuilagi (O'Driscoll)
Roberts (Barritt)
North (Visser)
Farrell (Cipriani)
Youngs (Phillips)
Faletau (Heaslip)
Robshaw (Warburton)
Wood (Lydiate)
Launchbury (Lawes)
Gray (Charteris)
Cole (Jones)
Best (Strauss)
Corbisiero (Jenkins)

Have you been watching any rugby, at all, recently??? Or did you just cast half an eye over England's freak, flash in the pan win? Half your 'test team' will not be touring on current form, and this is about picking the SQUAD. If you wish to start your own thread, be my guest, I suggest calling it 'humorously blinkered Lion's selections', or 'The Stephen Jones thread'..

.ak

Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Glass Prison 1214

Fits Morris wrote: »

Test XV and first replacements

Halfpenny (Kearney)
Ashton (Bowe)
Tuilagi (O'Driscoll)
Roberts (Barritt)
North (Visser)
Farrell (Cipriani)
Youngs (Phillips)
Faletau (Heaslip)
Robshaw (Warburton)
Wood (Lydiate)
Launchbury (Lawes)
Gray (Charteris)
Cole (Jones)
Best (Strauss)
Corbisiero (Jenkins)

You haven't even picked Healy or Sexton as first replacements, why? They are two of the best players in the world and IMO the only to nailed down starters at this moment. I cant understand picking Cipriani even only as backup, he is miles down the pecking order for England and is playing in one of the worst performing teams in Europe(Sale), Jenkins is also going through a torrid run of form and is behind Andrew Sheridan at Toulon.

Fits Morris

Elzevir wrote: »

Have you been watching any rugby, at all, recently??? Or did you just cast half an eye over England's freak, flash in the pan win? Half your 'test team' will not be touring on current form, and this is about picking the SQUAD. If you wish to start your own thread, be my guest, I suggest calling it 'humorously blinkered Lion's selections', or 'The Stephen Jones thread'..

It seems many people here weren't watching England demolish New Zealand yesterday.

England also demolished Ireland in the last Six Nations championship. They won in Paris, won four out of five matches and can consider themselves unfortunate not to have won the Grand Slam.

Wales are the current Grand Slam champions and reached the World Cup semi-finals.

Therefore it's only to be expected that the Lions selection will be dominated by England and Wales rather than by players from a lower mid table Six Nations side.

Higher

Fits Morris wrote: »

It seems many people here weren't watching England demolish New Zealand yesterday.

England also demolished Ireland in the last Six Nations championship. They won in Paris, won four out of five matches and can consider themselves unfortunate not to have won the Grand Slam.

Wales are the current Grand Slam champions and reached the World Cup semi-finals.

Therefore it's only to be expected that the Lions selection will be dominated by England and Wales rather than by players from a lower mid table Six Nations side.

It is quite frankly ridiculous to not include Sexton even as a second choice outhalf.

He is by some distance the second best outhalf in the world on current form.

Elzevir

I think it is fair to say that Mr. 'SJ' love nothing better than abusing his position as a 'respected' pundit by very regularly and persistently 'stirring' in the direction of (a) certain nation or nation's favour, and thus deserves a bit of 'harmless banter' aimed in his direction, what with the outlandish comments he (deliberately) makes..

rrpc

Fits Morris wrote: »

It seems many people here weren't watching England demolish New Zealand yesterday.

England also demolished Ireland in the last Six Nations championship. They won in Paris, won four out of five matches and can consider themselves unfortunate not to have won the Grand Slam.

Wales are the current Grand Slam champions and reached the World Cup semi-finals.

Therefore it's only to be expected that the Lions selection will be dominated by England and Wales rather than by players from a lower mid table Six Nations side.

Which is all well and good if the Lions selection was being made tomorrow and they were on the plane on January 1st.

There's a bit of rugby to be played between now and then and the 6N will be the real test. Even then, selections were made after the HEC in 2009 and a couple of form players picked from that.

And taking what you've said above about Wales and England, how does that bring Danny Cipriani into the equation?

Elzevir

Fits Morris wrote: »

It seems many people here weren't watching England demolish New Zealand yesterday.

England also demolished Ireland in the last Six Nations championship. They won in Paris, won four out of five matches and can consider themselves unfortunate not to have won the Grand Slam.

Wales are the current Grand Slam champions and reached the World Cup semi-finals.

Therefore it's only to be expected that the Lions selection will be dominated by England and Wales rather than by players from a lower mid table Six Nations side.

I seem to recall Ireland winning about 7 out of the last 8 games against England, my good mate.. I also recall Ireland THUMPING a very decent indeed Argentina side. I also recall England playing like a mouldy sack of spuds against Australia and South Africa, and I also recall not really taking much notice, for the sake of my blood pressure, of people like yourself and a certain SJ's 'balanced opinions'. I am a rugby fan, you are an England fan.. There is more than a subtle difference between us and our attitudes, and I am thankful that you are not anything to do with the panel of selectors (or much to do with rugby at all for that matter ; )

Fireball07

Is there an actual limit on squad size? I can't see a reason for not bringing 6 props tbh...if you've only got 2 for one side of the scrum and one gets injured, a replacement will be required urgently.

sock puppet

Elzevir wrote: »

I am a rugby fan, you are an England fan..

After picking Rhys Priestland I thought you were more of a comedy fan.

rrpc

Fireball07 wrote: »

Is there an actual limit on squad size? I can't see a reason for not bringing 6 props tbh...if you've only got 2 for one side of the scrum and one gets injured, a replacement will be required urgently.

Not really, but after the Woodward led debacle of 2005 when the starting squad totalled 44 or 45 (AFAIR), the received wisdom was to reduce it to a more manageable number of around 35 or 36.

bilston

I'm sure I'll change my mind in 10 mins but here's my pick...

FB: Kearney, Halfpenny, Foden (3)
Wing: Bowe, North, Visser, Ashton (4)
Centre: BOD, Tuilagi, Roberts, Davies (4)
FH: Sexton, Farrell, Biggar (3)
SH: Youngs, Phillips, Care (3)
Prop: Healy, Cole, Corbisiero, Jones, Jenkins (5)
Hooker: Best, Strauss, Youngs (3)
Lock: Gray, Ryan, Launchbury, Wyn Jones (4)
Flank: Warburton, O'Brien, Ferris, Lydiate, Robshaw (5)
8: Heaslip, Morgan (2)

The one I'm not sure about is Tom Wood, I could see him being picked ahead of Ferris due to fitness concerns about Fez and Lydiate won't be long back either.

Elzevir

THE SQUAD SIZE IS 36 GUYS (for the third time now)..
Here is my 'revised' team, for the benefit of Stephen Jones and 'Fits Morris'

15 Balshaw
14 Simpson Care - Bear
13 Tindall
12 Allen
11 Monye
10 Cipriani
9 Dawson
1 Rowntree
2 Moore
3 Chilcott
4 Beaumont
5 Dooley
6 Skinner
7 Back
8 Richards (C)

Fits Morris

Elzevir wrote: »

I seem to recall Ireland winning about 7 out of the last 8 games against England, my good mate.. I also recall Ireland THUMPING a very decent indeed Argentina side. I also recall England playing like a mouldy sack of spuds against Australia and South Africa, and I also recall not really taking much notice, for the sake of my blood pressure, of people like yourself and a certain SJ's 'balanced opinions'. I am a rugby fan, you are an England fan.. There is more than a subtle difference between us and our attitudes, and I am thankful that you are not anything to do with the panel of selectors (or much to do with rugby at all for that matter ; )

I'm a realist.

You are talking about matches as far back as 2004. What that has to do with picking the 2013 Lions squad, I'm not sure.

You are talking about a win over Argentina. I'm talking about a win over New Zealand. There's just a little bit of a difference there.

Irish rugby followers really need to take the blinkers off. A club competition where the dice is loaded firmly in favour of Irish teams isn't hugely relevant when it comes to top level international competition.

Ireland's international results bear out the reality. Their true position in the world is around seventh, roughly on a par with Argentina, possibly slightly ahead. England and Wales are comfortably ahead on form over the last year to 15 months.

Quint2010

Elzevir wrote: »

Bout time we started a Lions thread..

I'm using GT's Lion's article of yesterday as a template, assuming he is correct about the squad size and number of players in each position.. 36 players..

FB: Kearney, Halfpenny, Foden (3)
Wing: Bowe, North, Cuthbert, Gilroy (4)
Centre: BOD, Tuilagi, Roberts, Davies (4)
FH: Sexton, Priestland, Laidlaw (3)
SH: Youngs, Phillips, Care (3)
Prop: Healy, Cole, Corbisiero, Jones, Jenkins (5)
Hooker: Best, Strauss, Youngs (3)
Lock: Gray, Ryan, McCarthy, Wyn Jones (4)
Flank: Warburton, O'Brien, Ferris, Wood, Tipuric (5)
8: Heaslip, Morgan (2)

I would pretty much agree with this-apart from second row where I think Gatland will pick Lawes instead of mcCarthy and OH where I think Farrell will go instead of Laidlaw.

rrpc

Elzevir wrote: »

THE SQUAD SIZE IS 36 GUYS (for the third time now)..

It's not the law you know, just what the coaches decide.

Gatland could change his mind in May and add another two players if he wanted, there's no set rule.

Higher

Fits Morris wrote: »

I'm a realist.

You are talking about matches as far back as 2004. What that has to do with picking the 2013 Lions squad, I'm not sure.

You are talking about a win over Argentina. I'm talking about a win over New Zealand. There's just a little bit of a difference there.

Irish rugby followers really need to take the blinkers off. A club competition where the dice is loaded firmly in favour of Irish teams isn't hugely relevant when it comes to top level international competition.

Ireland's international results bear out the reality. Their true position in the world is around seventh, roughly on a par with Argentina, possibly slightly ahead. England and Wales are comfortably ahead on form over the last year to 15 months.

Ireland's international results bear out the reality of the lackluster coach at the helm

By the way Irish fans need to take the blinkers off? Most of the media in Britain have Sexton firmly at 10 and Healy included as back up. The only person who has blinkers on here is you. The fact that you think Cipriani will be ahead of Sexton is a joke to be honest.

Elzevir

sock puppet wrote: »

After picking Rhys Priestland I thought you were more of a comedy fan.

Oh I have simply got my cystal ball out with that one mate.. I predict Wales to bounce back strong in the 6N and everybody to be raving about the geezer again.. lol

Fireball07

Okay then, if I was picking the squad now...saying people will be injury-free.

FB- Kearney, Halfpenny, Hogg (3)
Wing- North, Ashton, Visser, Cuthbert (4)
OC- Tuilagi, BOD (2)
IC- Davies, Beck (2)
OH- Sexton, Biggar, Farrell (3)
SH- Care, Youngs, Laidlaw (3)

HK- Best, Strauss, Hartley (3)
LH- Healy, Corbisiero, Jenkins (3)
TH- Jones, Cole, Ross (3)
LK- POC, Gray, Lawes (meh), Jones (4)
BS- Ferris, Lydiate (2)
OS- Tipuric, Armitage, SOB (3)
8- Heaslip, Faletau (2)


Which, in a squad of 37 is:

Wales- 12
Ireland- 11
England- 10
Scotland- 4

Which isn't as biased as I thought at all...

Although, I think someone like Robshaw is more likely to go than Armitage. And if Gatland sees SOB as a real option for 8, he might leave Faletau out and bring someone else. Also wouldn't be surprised to see one of Denton or Rennie to go...and Warburton could still be picked, although Tipuric is definitely better atm.

If POC isn't fit, then Charteris or Ryan could end up going... and Ross is only chosen to be that extra TH option, someone could get ahead of him.

Don't know if Laidlaw would be picked alongside 3 OHs, but now I can't see Farrell being left out. If he was to not bring Biggar, have Laidlaw as a 3rd OH, then there would be another SH option open for someone like Murray or Phillips if they had a good season.

Also think Roberts will be picked but I wouldn't as of now...and the last wing spot is a very tight call.

Elzevir

Fits Morris wrote: »

I'm a realist.

You are talking about matches as far back as 2004. What that has to do with picking the 2013 Lions squad, I'm not sure.

You are talking about a win over Argentina. I'm talking about a win over New Zealand. There's just a little bit of a difference there.

Irish rugby followers really need to take the blinkers off. A club competition where the dice is loaded firmly in favour of Irish teams isn't hugely relevant when it comes to top level international competition.

Ireland's international results bear out the reality. Their true position in the world is around seventh, roughly on a par with Argentina, possibly slightly ahead. England and Wales are comfortably ahead on form over the last year to 15 months.

You are not a realist mate, you are just somebody who watches England. Like I said. To not include any Scottish players, let alone Irish, is a joke and an insult on an Irish forum, period. You clearly do not have an appreciation of any team's rugby apart from England's. And as for Ireland knowing how to look after their players re: HC games etc. It's not our fault your union still has it's head stuck (somewhere) now is it?
To NOT have Cian Healy at 1 is a joke. Period.. Seriously, have an attempt or two at watching, even enjoying, non England games. I think it could do you a lot of good mate.

Elzevir

FITS MORRIS:

Some basic reading around will tell you that Gatland is "very keen to have people who do not throw their toys out of the pram'' on the tour party..

Cipriani and Henson..

Nuff said. LMAO.

Fits Morris

Higher wrote: »

Ireland's international results bear out the reality of the lackluster coach at the helm

Kidney is the finest Irish coach ever. Bar Harry Williams he is the only Irishman to win a Heineken Cup as a coach. He is the only Irish coach ever to win a Grand Slam or to beat big three Southern Hemisphere opposition at a World Cup.

Ireland's problem is not the coach. It is that the players are not as good as the Irish public believe they are.

Sexton is a superb out half at Heineken Cup level. He is a competent international out half who has certainly not had a stellar career at that level. Rhys Priestland outplayed him when it really mattered at the World Cup, although I'd take Sexton over him at the moment.

Farrell is in superb form, as shown by his nomination for IRB Player of the Year.

Cipriani is a supremely talented player. If he knuckles down and gets his act together he has a great chance to get back into the England fold and make the Lions squad.

OldRio

Troll, period.

Fits Morris

Elzevir wrote: »

You are not a realist mate, you are just somebody who watches England. Like I said. To not include any Scottish players, let alone Irish, is a joke and an insult on an Irish forum, period. You clearly do not have an appreciation of any team's rugby apart from England's. And as for Ireland knowing how to look after their players re: HC games etc. It's not our fault your union still has it's head stuck (somewhere) now is it?
To NOT have Cian Healy at 1 is a joke. Period.. Seriously, have an attempt or two at watching, even enjoying, non England games. I think it could do you a lot of good mate.

I included Richie Gray in my test team and Tim Visser on the second team.

That's a truly bizarre point you've made about my points being an insult on an Irish forum.

"Period" is not an argument.

I'm Irish, by the way. But I appreciate that a strong England is good for Northern Hemisphere rugby. So it's fairly obvious who's the more open minded.

Hagz

OldRio wrote: »

Troll, period.

Without the comma, that's a very nasty image.

Elzevir

I wouldn't say Troll mate.. Not to his face anyway like..
I wouldn't be 'saying' much to be honest..

Higher

Fits Morris wrote: »

Kidney is the finest Irish coach ever. Bar Harry Williams he is the only Irishman to win a Heineken Cup as a coach. He is the only Irish coach ever to win a Grand Slam or to beat big three Southern Hemisphere opposition at a World Cup.

Ireland's problem is not the coach. It is that the players are not as good as the Irish public believe they are.

Sexton is a superb out half at Heineken Cup level. He is a competent international out half who has certainly not had a stellar career at that level. Rhys Priestland outplayed him when it really mattered at the World Cup, although I'd take Sexton over him at the moment.

Farrell is in superb form, as shown by his nomination for IRB Player of the Year.

Cipriani is a supremely talented player. If he knuckles down and gets his act together he has a great chance to get back into the England fold and make the Lions squad.

LOL O'Gara started against Wales.

By the way, Sexton has started 25 times for Ireland and gotten a MOTM in 7 of those games, including against South Africa, England, Australia. Against Argentina he should have gotten MOTM. In 8 games for Ireland (including Argentina) or roughly in a little more than 1 in every 3 games he has been not only competent but the BEST player on the pitch.

I've no idea where this 'average' for Ireland comes from to be honest.

Elzevir

Fits Morris wrote: »

I included Richie Gray in my test team and Tim Visser on the second team.

That's a truly bizarre point you've made about my points being an insult on an Irish forum.

"Period" is not an argument.

I'm Irish, by the way. But I appreciate that a strong England is good for Northern Hemisphere rugby. So it's fairly obvious who's the more open minded.

Try making even a slither of sense and then let me know when you have something to say old mate..

Tigerandahalf

The squad is probably harder to pick than the team. 2nd row and number 8 I think are hard to pick. Getting the balance right in backrow is hard. We dont have many physical no 4s.
Here is what I picked.
15 Halfpenney
14 Bowe
13 Tuilagi
12 Roberts
11 North
10 Sexton
9 Phillips
8
7 Warburton (c)
6 Ferris/SOB
5 cant decide
4 hard to call!
3 Cole
2 Best
1 Healy

I think the Lions are weak enough at number 8 and especially in the 2nd row. I think Tipuric will also travel as he is the only other openside capable of competing with Pocock.
I think Halfpenny is favoured at fullback as he attacks better than Kearney and he also kicks. Handy if Sexton is having bad day. Have picked Tuilagi over BOD but he and Roberts do have a good understanding so BOD could well get in too.
Farrell will definitely travel. Only dependable alternative at 10.

Tigerandahalf

Forgot to mention Tom Wood who was v good against NZ. If I am right he was v good on last Lions tour.

Podge_irl

Warburton is not in great form. He'll do well to stay ahead of Tipuric for Wales.

Elzevir

Fits Morris wrote: »

Kidney is the finest Irish coach ever. Bar Harry Williams he is the only Irishman to win a Heineken Cup as a coach. He is the only Irish coach ever to win a Grand Slam or to beat big three Southern Hemisphere opposition at a World Cup.

Ireland's problem is not the coach. It is that the players are not as good as the Irish public believe they are.

Sexton is a superb out half at Heineken Cup level. He is a competent international out half who has certainly not had a stellar career at that level. Rhys Priestland outplayed him when it really mattered at the World Cup, although I'd take Sexton over him at the moment.

Farrell is in superb form, as shown by his nomination for IRB Player of the Year.

Cipriani is a supremely talented player. If he knuckles down and gets his act together he has a great chance to get back into the England fold and make the Lions squad.

Ignoring all the (inflamatory) verbal diarrhoea preceding it, did it escape your notice, Mr. Know it all, that Gatland PUBLICALLY stated he would be picking players who 'DO NOT THROW THEIR TOYS OUT OF THE PRAM'. Is it just me or could that be, just perhaps, a slight reference to Messrs Henson and Cipriani, BOTH of whom turned their backs on their countries completely when they got dropped????
They are both overrated sooks.. I would be inclined to take your tongue out of that (Cipriani based) location pretty quick old bean...

Fits Morris

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Forgot to mention Tom Wood who was v good against NZ. If I am right he was v good on last Lions tour.

That was Tom Croft, who is another who could come into contention. The Lions will be exceptionally well served for depth at 6.

Tigerandahalf

Given the damage that Pocock could do it will be important that the Lions are able to clear out their rucks.
A lot will depend on the gameplan the Lions will employ. An open attacking gameplan could play into the Wallabies hands especially with Pocock around.

Glass Prison 1214

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Forgot to mention Tom Wood who was v good against NZ. If I am right he was v good on last Lions tour.

Tom Croft is who you are thinking of on the last Lions tour, Wood only made his England debut last year.

Elzevir

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The squad is probably harder to pick than the team. 2nd row and number 8 I think are hard to pick. Getting the balance right in backrow is hard. We dont have many physical no 4s.
Here is what I picked.
15 Halfpenney
14 Bowe
13 Tuilagi
12 Roberts
11 North
10 Sexton
9 Phillips
8
7 Warburton (c)
6 Ferris/SOB
5 cant decide
4 hard to call!
3 Cole
2 Best
1 Healy

I think the Lions are weak enough at number 8 and especially in the 2nd row. I think Tipuric will also travel as he is the only other openside capable of competing with Pocock.
I think Halfpenny is favoured at fullback as he attacks better than Kearney and he also kicks. Handy if Sexton is having bad day. Have picked Tuilagi over BOD but he and Roberts do have a good understanding so BOD could well get in too.
Farrell will definitely travel. Only dependable alternative at 10.

Heaslip will get in, just, over Denton (who is a very fine rugby player)
Gray is a certainty at lock, it's only the other one that's hard to call..
gatland said already that the test team is the easy bit, even now,
You're right about Warburton as another thing Gatland said is that genuine 7s will be picked, not multitaskers