Advice please re RB dogs on loose

novicecyclist

Ok am moving into new home and spoke to one of the neighbours who in conversation mentioned that there are 3 large dogs down the road which are RB let run loose regularly in the back lane, as apparently the owner reckons they're harmless and doesn't muzzel them. The neighbour I spoke to is elderly and terrified of them. They are kept in the front garden of the house with low walls and a bush and a rickety builder type fence. I rarely walk past the house with toddler as i am worried they would get out indeed today I decided to bite the bullet and one of the dogs launched itself at me as i was about to walk by so i about turned.

This makes me nervous as I have a toddler and would like to get a dog myself but the fact that these dogs are wandering unsupervised leaves me nervous. I have seen the owner walking the three RB dogs unmuzzled together and tbh the owner is being dragged by the dogs and does not look like he is in control as the arm is pulled off him.

It has in a way made me nervous about moving into my new house any advice on what I can do about situation as the garden walls are low and am already worried about toddler in back garden and a dog if i get one.

please dont quote as would like to delete this later thanks

mikemac1

What does RB mean?

I googled it but didn't find it

tuxy

mikemac1 wrote: »

What does RB mean?

I googled it but didn't find it

I had to google it too, it stands for restricted breed.

meoklmrk91

OP contact your local dog warden, no dog be they Restricted breed or not should be roaming around, they are a potentialdanger to themselves and the general public, even if just by causing a car accident , the warden will most likely have a word with the owner and remind them of the laws regarding all dogs, and those for RB, I am not really a believer in RB legislation personally but I do believe that every dog owner should be in full control of their dogs at all times and they should under no circumstances be allowed to roam unsupervised. The warden will also check for licenses and hopefully that will be the end of it. As long as the owner complies there should be no issues.

horsemaster

OP, Have you talked to the Gardai about this? They might be able advise you. It does seem unsafe. What if a child walks by and the dog attacks?

novicecyclist

not yet horsemaster only discovered yesterday wasnt sure if they would take me seriously since i havent seen the dogs by themselves yet.

novicecyclist

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

OP contact your local dog warden, no dog be they Restricted breed or not should be roaming around, they are a potentialdanger to themselves and the general public, even if just by causing a car accident , the warden will most likely have a word with the owner and remind them of the laws regarding all dogs, and those for RB, I am not really a believer in RB legislation personally but I do believe that every dog owner should be in full control of their dogs at all times and they should under no circumstances be allowed to roam unsupervised. The warden will also check for licenses and hopefully that will be the end of it. As long as the owner complies there should be no issues.

Thanks will do. hopefully owner approachable but seeing how he thinks its ok i doubt it as the dogs are jumping walls into other peoples property hence worry about them getting into mine with a toddler.

meoklmrk91

novicecyclist wrote: »

Thanks will do. hopefully owner approachable but seeing how he thinks its ok i doubt it as the dogs are jumping walls into other peoples property hence worry about them getting into mine with a toddler.

If he isn't approachable and continues to do what he is doing then the warden can take the dogs from him. You can try visiting your local Garda st. and see what their reaction is, they may pay a visit to the owner for you, but in my experience they are so over stretched as it is that dogs are quite low on their list of priorities, I mean that is what the dog warden is for. Still worth a try but I would definitely initiate contact with the warden.

novicecyclist

thank you

Melion

What breeds are they?

doubleglaze

I personally wouldn't have a restricted breed living in a built-up area.

Their presence stirs up fear among neighbours not comfortable with big dogs, which then draws trouble and strife and this sometimes ends up in litigation. At the same time, it's unnatural and unfair on these dogs to keep them on leashes all the time when out in public areas. That said, it is sometimes possible for city dwellers to drive to a quiet area and let them run/roam free as nature intended them to do (for an hour a day or so) in a place where they won't provoke anyone's fear.

doubleglaze

Melion wrote: »

What breeds are they?

• American Pit Bull Terrier
• Bull Mastiff
• Doberman Pinscher
• English Bull Terrier
• German Shepherd (Alsatian)
• Japanese Akita
• Japanese Tosa
• Rhodesian Ridgeback
• Rottweiler
• Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Every other strain of cross of every breed or type of dog listed above.

SillyMangoX

doubleglaze wrote: »

I personally wouldn't have a restricted breed living in a built-up area.

Their presence stirs up fear among neighbours not comfortable with big dogs, which then draws trouble and strife and this sometimes ends up in litigation. At the same time, it's unnatural and unfair on these dogs to keep them on leashes all the time when out in public areas. That said, it is sometimes possible for city dwellers to drive to a quiet area and let them run/roam free as nature intended them to do (for an hour a day or so) in a place where they won't provoke anyone's fear.

Unnatural or not, it is the law unfortunately that they do have to be kept on a lead at all time. It's not a law I agree with, I think it should be down to the individual dog. I'm blessed in that my crossbreed doesn't look like her Rottie daddy too much so we have no bother letting her loose in the woods for a run and don't have to worry about anyone calling the warden etc because I couldn't stick having to muzzle her at all, she's such a sloppy dopey dog. But in this case, the neighborhood is clearly being hassled by these dogs, which by law shouldn't be roaming (RB or not) so if the neighbour can't be reasoned with I would be reporting it to the warden.

bluecherry74

doubleglaze wrote: »

I personally wouldn't have a restricted breed living in a built-up area.

Their presence stirs up fear among neighbours not comfortable with big dogs, which then draws trouble and strife and this sometimes ends up in litigation. At the same time, it's unnatural and unfair on these dogs to keep them on leashes all the time when out in public areas. That said, it is sometimes possible for city dwellers to drive to a quiet area and let them run/roam free as nature intended them to do (for an hour a day or so) in a place where they won't provoke anyone's fear.

Not all RBs are big dogs though, staffies are medium size and relatively short, and there are dozens of much larger breeds that aren't on the RB list.

My two dogs (not RBs) are large-ish and I almost always keep them on the lead in public areas. It's for their own safety and there's nothing unnatural or unfair about it at all.

Melion

doubleglaze wrote: »

• American Pit Bull Terrier
• Bull Mastiff
• Doberman Pinscher
• English Bull Terrier
• German Shepherd (Alsatian)
• Japanese Akita
• Japanese Tosa
• Rhodesian Ridgeback
• Rottweiler
• Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Every other strain of cross of every breed or type of dog listed above.

I know what RB are, i meant what breeds are causing this person trouble.

I have one of those dogs and refuse to muzzle her.

ISDW

doubleglaze wrote: »

I personally wouldn't have a restricted breed living in a built-up area.

Their presence stirs up fear among neighbours not comfortable with big dogs, which then draws trouble and strife and this sometimes ends up in litigation. At the same time, it's unnatural and unfair on these dogs to keep them on leashes all the time when out in public areas. That said, it is sometimes possible for city dwellers to drive to a quiet area and let them run/roam free as nature intended them to do (for an hour a day or so) in a place where they won't provoke anyone's fear.

Really, nature intended domesticated animals to roam free?

I'm pretty scared of cattle, does that mean my neighbours shouldn't farm their cattle in the fields next to my home?

snollup

SillyMangoX wrote: »

Unnatural or not, it is the law unfortunately that they do have to be kept on a lead at all time. It's not a law I agree with, I think it should be down to the individual dog. I'm blessed in that my crossbreed doesn't look like her Rottie daddy too much so we have no bother letting her loose in the woods for a run and don't have to worry about anyone calling the warden etc because I couldn't stick having to muzzle her at all, she's such a sloppy dopey dog. But in this case, the neighborhood is clearly being hassled by these dogs, which by law shouldn't be roaming (RB or not) so if the neighbour can't be reasoned with I would be reporting it to the warden.

Sorry to go off topic here but this really winds me up. It would not be practical to have a law based on the individual dog. SillyMango, you chose to get a dog who is a RB cross so you should have done your research first relating to the laws. Why do you think you have a right to pick what laws you feel like abiding by?

Sorry, rant over!

OP, just be careful in that if you first approach your neighbor and then have to turn to the Guards/Dig Warden he will know it was you that alerted them. Could you get a few of your other neighbors to approach him with you?

SillyMangoX

I didnt choose what breed my dog would be. We were getting a golden retriever x red setter from a friend but the dog was mis mated. When the pups came out black we originally thought the father was a black Labrador so why would we have changed what we were doing just because she developed brown eyebrows? I know all about the laws but as far as I am concerned she is a black golden retriever.

fatmammycat

snollup wrote: »

Sorry to go off topic here but this really winds me up. It would not be practical to have a law based on the individual dog.

Actually it's perfectly practical to have a law based on individual dogs, and we had just that before 1991. The RB legislation is a knee jerk UK-based bad law, and I for one don't follow it to the letter either (neither do I have my RB dog loose in public, but then neither would I have ANY large breed dog with questionable recall loose in public).

Odysseus

snollup wrote: »

OP, just be careful in that if you first approach your neighbor and then have to turn to the Guards/Dig Warden he will know it was you that alerted them. Could you get a few of your other neighbors to approach him with you?

Is that wise, getting a group of people to knock in at the same time doesn't seem to be the best way of tacking it.

snollup

fatmammycat wrote: »

Actually it's perfectly practical to have a law based on individual dogs, and we had just that before 1991. The RB legislation is a knee jerk UK-based bad law, and I for one don't follow it to the letter either (neither do I have my RB dog loose in public, but then neither would I have ANY large breed dog with questionable recall loose in public).

I never knew that about per 91. I still do not think it is very practical to legislate on a case by case basis. I can't think of any other examples of where the law operates in that way.

Odysseus wrote: »

Is that wise, getting a group of people to knock in at the same time doesn't seem to be the best way of tacking it.

To clarify, I mean to approach in a friendly civil manor. If it is an issue that concerns the whole neighbourhood maybe it could be dealt with collectively and not left to the op alone.

Rommie

snollup wrote: »

I never knew that about per 91. I still do not think it is very practical to legislate on a case by case basis. I can't think of any other examples of where the law operates in that way.

Murderers perhaps? You know, instead of locking up everyone because they might cause harm, you lock up the ones known to have caused harm. I dont see why it should be any different with dogs, it's just prejudice against certain breeds whereas all breeds are quite capable of attacking, hurting and killing someone. Same as all humans are

time lord

doubleglaze wrote: »

• American Pit Bull Terrier
• Bull Mastiff
• Doberman Pinscher
• English Bull Terrier
• German Shepherd (Alsatian)
• Japanese Akita
• Japanese Tosa
• Rhodesian Ridgeback
• Rottweiler
• Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Every other strain of cross of every breed or type of dog listed above.

Don't forget the Bandog:)

snollup

Rommie wrote: »

Murderers perhaps? You know, instead of locking up everyone because they might cause harm, you lock up the ones known to have caused harm. I dont see why it should be any different with dogs, it's just prejudice against certain breeds whereas all breeds are quite capable of attacking, hurting and killing someone. Same as all humans are

It is generally the owner that makes for the dogs temperament/personality alright I guess! My problem is with people deciding that they will decide will not follow these laws and then trying to justify it. At the end of the day the law is the law regardless of our option of it. Maybe get out and try to lobby your local TD. I think the speed limit is to low on certain roads around where I live but that does not give me right to break them!

Anyway, I do see your point regarding the RB laws. I think OPs thread has been hijacked enough, sorry!

ISDW

snollup wrote: »

I never knew that about per 91. I still do not think it is very practical to legislate on a case by case basis. I can't think of any other examples of where the law operates in that way.

Its actually still in Irish law. If a dog that isn't on the RB list causes problems, the owner can be taken to court and the dog can be labelled a Dangerous Dog, and certain conditions imposed up on it. So the legislation exists to treat all dogs in the same way, regardless of breed. In fact, even if a dog is on the RB list, it can still be 'tried' under that legislation.

From someone who owns a well behaved, socialised American Akita who is just 16 months old, the LAST thing I'd ever want to encounter in a dark park is someone else's Akita off the leash roaming around without a muzzle. To say that would terrify me would be an understatement. I'd be terrified for my own dog that he'd get attacked/in a fight.

This was reinforced the other night when we encountered a German Shepard/Alsation who was staring at my dog like a maniac from the minute he saw him, we purposely went the other way to avoid him and a few hundred metres up, we see the same dog off the leash in Kilbogget Park in Cabinteely, we thankfully saw him and continued to avoid him but my Akita who currently weighs over 50KG (and growing) has been attacked in the public by a variety of dogs from miniature schnauzers in Killiney Hill to white Samoyeds (male) who love to start fights with my dog. I'm not sure if it's because my dog has a completely black face and he scares them or that he is not neutered but it's not pleasant at all and I hate dealing with it. I'm 15 stone myself and 6 foot tall so can take care of myself but this definitely makes me and my girlfriend nervous.

If you can't control your dog or if your dog likes to attack dogs three times their size, keep the maniac on a leash please!!!

ISDW

Deleted User wrote: »

From someone who owns a well behaved, socialised American Akita who is just 16 months old, the LAST thing I'd ever want to encounter in a dark park is someone else's Akita off the leash roaming around without a muzzle. To say that would terrify me would be an understatement. I'd be terrified for my own dog that he'd get attacked/in a fight.

This was reinforced the other night when we encountered a German Shepard/Alsation who was staring at my dog like a maniac from the minute he saw him, we purposely went the other way to avoid him and a few hundred metres up, we see the same dog off the leash in Kilbogget Park in Cabinteely, we thankfully saw him and continued to avoid him but my Akita who currently weighs over 50KG (and growing) has been attacked in the public by a variety of dogs from miniature schnauzers in Killiney Hill to white Samoyeds (male) who love to start fights with my dog. I'm not sure if it's because my dog has a completely black face and he scares them or that he is not neutered but it's not pleasant at all and I hate dealing with it. I'm 15 stone myself and 6 foot tall so can take care of myself but this definitely makes me and my girlfriend nervous.

If you can't control your dog or if your dog likes to attack dogs three times their size, keep the maniac on a leash please!!!

but the fact that your dog has been attacked by dogs who aren't on the RB list negates your argument. it is obviously the owners of the dogs who haven't trained and socialised their dogs who have caused the issue, not the breed of dog.

My argument wasn't about RB solely. I have an RB.

My point is this: If you can't control your dog or if your dog likes to attack dogs three times their size, keep the maniac on a leash please!!!

Plus, I don't ever believe Akitas (THE BREED I HAVE) should be allowed roam in a public place.

Get me?

Whispered

When you say roam, do you mean offlead with their owner present, or do you mean roam, as in wander about on their own?

Off the leash with their owner present is fine in areas where the dogs are allowed or where there are no people around but if you can't control your dog or if your dog likes to attack dogs three times their size, keep the maniac on a leash please!!!

That's fair enough.

toadfly

Deleted User wrote: »

My point is this: If you can't control your dog or if your dog likes to attack dogs three times their size, keep the maniac on a leash please!!!

Exactly, but the breed shouldnt come into it. There are a lot of large breeds not on the list that are capable of the same damage as a RB.

Edit: here is a list of large dog breeds and from a quick glance only 5 are on the RB list...doesnt make sense.

http://www.justdogbreeds.com/large-dog-breeds.html

TillyGirl

TillyGirl wrote: »

Exactly, but the breed shouldnt come into it. There are a lot of large breeds not on the list that are capable of the same damage as a RB.

Edit: here is a list of large dog breeds and from a quick glance only 5 are on the RB list...doesnt make sense.

http://www.justdogbreeds.com/large-dog-breeds.html

I'm not bringing all of the breeds into it.

I'm bringing my breed into it because I'm qualified to make that statement on the basis that I own an Akita, have been been exposed to Akitas and worked and still do work my butt off to make sure my Akita is balanced.

golden8

Judge the dog not the breed all dogs require to be under control. My dog has been attacked by a westie But I don't say all westies are bad.

toadfly

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not bringing all of the breeds into it.

I'm bringing my breed into it because I'm qualified to make that statement on the basis that I own an Akita, have been been exposed to Akitas and worked and still do work my butt off to make sure my Akita is balanced.

Owing an Akita doesnt make you qualified for anything. You cannot judge the breed by one dog.

TillyGirl

TillyGirl wrote: »

Owing an Akita doesnt make you qualified for anything. You cannot judge the breed by one dog.

Every 'proper' Akita breeder I've ever spoken to including those in the Akita Association of Ireland have told me that this is a dog that should always be on leash and never left to roam. It's also against the law to do otherwise so why do it?

Edit: Tillygirl, it's a subjective thing and it's the law. But I'm not going to call the police on anyone for letting their dog whether RB or not off their leash. I just ask as I've stated (and this is the third time) if you can't control your dog or if your dog likes to attack dogs three times their size, keep the leash on!

DamagedTrax

TillyGirl wrote: »

You cannot judge the breed by one dog.

true.. but you can make assumptions based on your knowledge of the breed.

for instance i wouldnt leave 2 pit bulls alone together. i wouldnt leave a staffie alone with a cat.

not all pbt will fight and not all staffies will kill a cat but the danger is always a consideration. and the fact that akita have fighting blood (however watered down these days) is still a consideration that cannot be ignored.

Intensive Care Bear

Some people will only accept the existence of breed specific traits when it is something positive.

ISDW

Deleted User wrote: »

My argument wasn't about RB solely. I have an RB.

My point is this: If you can't control your dog or if your dog likes to attack dogs three times their size, keep the maniac on a leash please!!!

Plus, I don't ever believe Akitas (THE BREED I HAVE) should be allowed roam in a public place.

Get me?

But how do you know that the Akita that you might meet would attack your dog?

No need to shout, I know you have an Akita, but I also know akitas who are lovely, well mannered dogs, both with people and other dogs.

Would love to meet a dog thats 3 times the size of an akita

I agree that dogs should be under control, no matter what breed they are.

Rommie

I should tell the four akitas here that they're supposed to hate each other. Remarkable how we have three males and a female living in harmony when akitas are apparently expected to randomly attack each other. On the leash part of it I agree that an akita shouldn't be let roam, but then again i feel that no dog should be allowed roam regardless of breed. I can't even count the amount of times my housemate's come back from a walk where a random dog attacked one of them. And they are always on lead

ISDW

ISDW wrote: »

But how do you know that the Akita that you might meet would attack your dog?

No need to shout, I know you have an Akita, but I also know akitas who are lovely, well mannered dogs, both with people and other dogs.

Would love to meet a dog thats 3 times the size of an akita

I agree that dogs should be under control, no matter what breed they are.

I don't but my point is they're not the sort of dogs you'd approach or want to meet unless you know them very well. That's coming from someone who has only ever had good experiences with the breed.

One thing we agree on is all dogs should be under control.

Suucee

OP you have just moved in. If this person doesnt care enough to keep his dogs in (for their own safety aswell as others) i think if you called to the door you might make more trouble for yourself.
I have 4 dogs 2 large 2 small none RB. i wouldnt dream of letting any of them out in a housing estate or any public area off leash. Their walked every morning and brought off to a field every so often to run around.
There is always a little king charles who's let out roaming around unleashed. I dont know who owns him but i think it is madness. King charles not a RB but this fella is mad ive lost count of how many times we have come across him and he has ran in to attack my lot. Needless to say he came out worse for wear but every time we come across him he does it. As i said he roams aroud so much we dont know who owns him or even where he lives.
The last time OH was walking our dogs i was pushing pram and he came up from no where and ran straight into the middle of ours. Neither of us seen it coming. My soft oul lab nearly had a heart attack and tried to run off but couldnt (she was leashed to the others). While my other 3 were fighting back and my terrier ended up biting my collie in the process of the mess. OH was trying to get a bit of control but it all happened so quick. He was trying to pull ours away but king charles was in the middle and our Lab was going mad trying to get away . I ended up pushing pram into a garden for safety and just grabbing king charles out of the mess by the tail . (i know so stupid really sticking hand into dog fight but all happened so fast).
My 3 ended up roughed up but no one hurt. And my poor lab was a nervous wreck.
Lucky enough havent seen the little f**ker since while out walking maybe the owner has realised.
We were feeling very guilty but ours were leashed, minding their own buisness and were just defending them selves.

lrushe

DamagedTrax wrote: »

true.. but you can make assumptions based on your knowledge of the breed.

for instance i wouldnt leave 2 pit bulls alone together. i wouldnt leave a staffie alone with a cat.

not all pbt will fight and not all staffies will kill a cat but the danger is always a consideration. and the fact that akita have fighting blood (however watered down these days) is still a consideration that cannot be ignored.

The thing is people assume 2 Pitbulls may fight but rarely consider that a Golden Retreiver may attack a child and that's where assumptions can be dangerous, it's also why a dog should always be seen as a dog first and breed second.
BSL works on assumptions and anyone with eyes can see that doesn't work.

DamagedTrax

lrushe wrote: »

The thing is people assume 2 Pitbulls may fight but rarely consider that a Golden Retreiver may attack a child and that's where assumptions can be dangerous, it's also why a dog should always be seen as a dog first and breed second.
BSL works on assumptions and anyone with eyes can see that doesn't work.

no i agree bsl doesnt work and is based on generalisations and stereo types. but assumptions based on common sense can save animals. if two pits get in a fight and no one is around then there's going to be hurt dogs, and too assume that they will isn't really discriminatory to the breed, some pits just love to fight!

anyway, i dont agree any dogs should be running free around a neighbour hood. RB or not.

Whispered

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't but my point is they're not the sort of dogs you'd approach or want to meet unless you know them very well. That's coming from someone who has only ever had good experiences with the breed.

One thing we agree on is all dogs should be under control.

I love to meet an akita when out, or any dog for that matter. I also, regularly walk with all manner of dogs from bull mastiffs to westies and I very very rarely meet anyone who has any fear which you seem to think your akita deserves.

I really don't see what you're trying to get across and may have misunderstood your point. I can imagine you with your dog shouting "Don't approach it's, it's, IT'S AN AKITA :eek:" :P

toadfly

DamagedTrax wrote: »

no i agree bsl doesnt work and is based on generalisations and stereo types. but assumptions based on common sense can save animals. if two pits get in a fight and no one is around then there's going to be hurt dogs, and too assume that they will isn't really discriminatory to the breed, some pits just love to fight!

anyway, i dont agree any dogs should be running free around a neighbour hood. RB or not.

But any two dogs of the same size/breed have the ability to badly hurt/kill each other. Just because they are pits doesnt mean they are randomly going to attach each other.

DamagedTrax

TillyGirl wrote: »

Just because they are pits doesnt mean they are randomly going to attach each other.

IMO it does actually. considering their breeding pits have a MUCH higher chance for dog aggression. its in their blood. they actually love fighting, its pretty messed up.
when two of them kick off neither will give up and thats how they end up dead. most other breeds will turn and run when hurt, a pit wont.

obviously im not talking about every pit out there but the ratio of aggressive to non-aggressive is so much higher than any other breed of dog.

Whispered

DamagedTrax wrote: »

IMO it does actually. considering their breeding pits have a MUCH higher chance for dog aggression. its in their blood. they actually love fighting, its pretty messed up.
when two of them kick off neither will give up and thats how they end up dead. most other breeds will turn and run when hurt, a pit wont.

obviously im not talking about every pit out there but the ratio of aggressive to non-aggressive is so much higher than any other breed of dog.

I would like to see what a behaviourist would have to say about that because I feel very conflicted about it. I know I haven't got a lot of experience but in the past year I've met so many different dogs. A few of which have been pits, loads of staffies and other breeds. There is one breed that has surprised me for the levels of dog aggression and it's not one that I would have ever expected! This is only anecdotal though, so I would like to hear an academic opinion on your post.

Can I ask where you got this information about ratio of aggression and non-aggression etc.

DamagedTrax

cmon whispered, we all know what they're bred for :rolleyes: there are plenty of pit X out there that have diluted blood and will happily get along with other dogs but the real deal is a different beast altogether.

now im not talking about the kc amstaff/pits that go for silly money, they're bred for the show ring from non-game bloodlines but you dont see many of them about the place anyway. im talking about the gamebred pits that you can see at working shows up and down the country and estates all around dublin. you should try to get along to a show like that, its a real eye opener as to what real dog aggression is like. it scared the sh1t outta me first time i saw it

those type of dogs have no place being off lead in public and their (sensible) owners agree.

the info on ratio is purely from my own experience but it is considered. if im out walking dolly we'll meet maybe 1 aggressive dog out of 10. if we're at a working breed show then the opposite applies.

Mod edit: DT, please don't call others by their real names!
Thanks,
DBB

Whispered

DamagedTrax wrote: »

cmon whispered, we all know what they're bred for :rolleyes: there are plenty of pit X out there that have diluted blood and will happily get along with other dogs but the real deal is a different beast altogether.

now im not talking about the fluffy kc amstaff/pits that go for silly money. im talking about the gamebred pits that you can see at working shows up and down the country. you should try to get along to a show like that, its a real eye opener as to what real dog aggression is like.

Hardly any need for the :rolleyes: ??

You never answered me where you got the ratio's. EDIT: sorry you did. It's also anecdotal then. At working shows where you meet aggressive dogs. If Dolly begins to show aggression, would you consider it nature because of her breed, or nurture because she has been exposed to aggression and so begins to expect and pre-empt it?

juniord

simple rule about keeping apbt never trust them not to fight

DamagedTrax

Whispered wrote: »

Hardly any need for the :rolleyes: ??

You never answered me where you got the ratio's. EDIT: sorry you did. It's also anecdotal then. At working shows where you meet aggressive dogs. If Dolly begins to show aggression, would you consider it nature because of her breed, or nurture because she has been exposed to aggression and so begins to expect and pre-empt it?

it was a light hearted :rolleyes: so :rolleyes:

if dolly began to show aggression at her age i would be looking for reasons other than nature. she's not a dog aggressive staffie and is very well socialised. but she has been to quite a few working breed shows now and the aggression doesnt bother her. funnily enough she is able to socialise with some aggressive dogs. for some reason she doesnt seem the get them fired up. ive read many times before that some game dogs instinctly sense other game dogs and arent concerned with dogs that arent a threat.

but dolly has an aggressive side with any other animal. cats/swans/deers/horses. i certainly cant let her off the lead unless im sure she's in an enclosed area and there's no training her out of it, its just pure full on prey drive.