ROG for the Lions

goreyguy

According to GT, he can't be ruled out. This along with Quinlan saying similar really shows how poor the rugby coverage in this country is. It's a closed network of people who will toe the party line.

CatFromHue

Outhalf (3)

Jonathan Sexton (Ireland)
Jonny Wilkinson (England)
Owen Farrell (England)

With a limit on numbers, there seems sure to be a slot for a goalkicking outhalf cum centre ala James Hook in ’09, but this time that might be filled by Farrell. Confidence at a low ebb and the primary target of a critical Welsh social media, Rhys Priestland will need to be rebuilt. Wilkinson runs the risk of attracting a media circus, but if he maintains his form with Toulon he may be impossible to resist. A certain Cork man can’t be ruled out entirely either.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1201/1224327341974.html

---

It's effectively a list of all, or nearly all, qualified home nation outhalves of which ROG is at the bottom. He's not exactly bigging up ROG here now is he?

JustinDee

"GT" and Alan Quinlan are not Lions selectors. Warren Gatland and Andy Irvine are.

The journalists in question (of which, in my opinion, there are too many of, all writing on the same subject) have columns to fill, editions to sell and clicks to achieve.
They're just opionion pieces. If you don't like, don't buy it, read it or click on it. I've read some tripe over the years myself but hey, life goes on.

People seem to go looking for articles to be outraged at.

observer2u

Why would wilkinson go? Is he really doing much in France?

wp_rathead

observer2u wrote: »

Why would wilkinson go? Is he really doing much in France?

Last year he was playing great stuff for Toulon- haven't seen much of him this year

bilston

I'm far more interested/concerned by his selection of Strauss over Best.

tolosenc

No way Gatland isn't bringing Priestland. Sexton is the obvious choice. Reckon we might see Laidlaw in the squad.

bilston wrote: »

I'm far more interested/concerned by his selection of Strauss over Best.

Why? It's about as 50:50 a call as any position in the team.

bilston

tolosenc wrote: »

No way Gatland isn't bringing Priestland. Sexton is the obvious choice. Reckon we might see Laidlaw in the squad.



Why? It's about as 50:50 a call as any position in the team.

Well I don't think it is.

sydthebeat

Dan bigger anyone?
I can see him being the Welsh 10 for the 6n, injuries permitting.

Tox56

A straight call between Strauss and Best is close, but I would be amazed if Best doesn't even travel as GT suggests. I think that would take a real drop off in form (pre-injury), or for his injury to be than first thought. Right now the bigger question is whether or not he will start the tests.

bilston

sydthebeat wrote: »

Dan bigger anyone?
I can see him being the Welsh 10 for the 6n, injuries permitting.

Possibly I think it's a no brainer to pick him at 10 for Wales on HEC form anyway.

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

Outhalf (3)

Jonathan Sexton (Ireland)
Jonny Wilkinson (England)
Owen Farrell (England)

With a limit on numbers, there seems sure to be a slot for a goalkicking outhalf cum centre ala James Hook in ’09, but this time that might be filled by Farrell. Confidence at a low ebb and the primary target of a critical Welsh social media, Rhys Priestland will need to be rebuilt. Wilkinson runs the risk of attracting a media circus, but if he maintains his form with Toulon he may be impossible to resist. A certain Cork man can’t be ruled out entirely either.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1201/1224327341974.html

---

It's effectively a list of all, or nearly all, qualified home nation outhalves of which ROG is at the bottom. He's not exactly bigging up ROG here now is he?

Well lets just say the man who was starting for England last week ahead of both English players named has a better chance of travelling than someone who was very lucky to be warming the bench for Ireland.

jamiedav2011

Paul ****ing James?!
He's not within an asses roar of going!

Swiwi

Which article are you more likely to read

1) Sexton will be Lions outhalf
2) ROG in frame for Lions outhalf?

Number 2 is controversial, and invites debate, so more people are likely to buy the newspaper to read it. And newspaper advertising is about readership.

So I wouldn't get too het up about it.

goreyguy

Swiwi wrote: »

Which article are you more likely to read

1) Sexton will be Lions outhalf
2) ROG in frame for Lions outhalf?

Number 2 is controversial, and invites debate, so more people are likely to buy the newspaper to read it. And newspaper advertising is about readership.

So I wouldn't get too het up about it.

Neither have that headline. So you can't say its a ploy to gain readership.

pappyodaniel

Who's GT?

ed7890

Cool, a ROG is sh1t thread, isn't this new and different

sydthebeat

ed7890 wrote: »

Cool, a ROG is sh1t thread, isn't this new and different

I think there's too much tippex on your screen.... Read the title again.

phog

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Who's GT?

Are u serious? Gerry Thornely, rugby jounalist with the Irish Times

Higher

Articles like that (although unintentionally) just tarnish ROG's legacy. It's becoming a bit of a joke at this stage.

ScissorPaperRock

goreyguy wrote: »

Neither have that headline. So you can't say its a ploy to gain readership.

They don't need to be.

If the subject is controversial and cause people to discuss the article and results in more people reading it then it means they have gained greater readership.

Podge_irl

I'm 90% sure Thornley isn't doing it to cause controversy and gain readership, he's saying it cause he genuinely believes it. Decide for yourself whether that makes it better or worse.

yougottagoboy

the whole article was an absolute joke. To think that Hibbard and James will be anywhere near the plane is a joke,and apparently now O'Connell has ruled himself out? first I've heard of it..
To have Barritt down to start instead of Tuilagi and Cuthbert on the plane also discredits the whole thing. The lack of Best and the disparaging remark about O'Driscoll only further adds to the hilarity of it

pappyodaniel

phog wrote: »

Are u serious? Gerry Thornely, rugby jounalist with the Irish Times

:rolleyes:
brain freeze...

I haven't read him in a long, long time. I usually come to boards for my rugby info. It's more insightful than the crap written by our sports writers who clearly have agendas.

Hagz

Am I the only one here who doesn't read any rugby articles. The only time I read about rugby is when I'm on here, or when I catch up on news on Planetrugby.

Fireball07

Hagz wrote: »

Am I the only one here who doesn't read any rugby articles. The only time I read about rugby is when I'm on here, or when I catch up on news on Planetrugby.

Yeah, pretty much.

I read the odd one if I just pick up a paper but I don't go out of my way to do it. Some people just like getting annoyed I think

Elzevir

I've never heard anything as absurd as people talking about Wilkinson touring with the Lions again, and I am English..

Glass Prison 1214

Elzevir wrote: »

I've never heard anything as absurd as people talking about Wilkinson touring with the Lions again, and I am English..

Well there is a severe lack of top class 10s in Britain and Ireland, and Wilkinson is performing excellently for Toulon. He was nominated for European player of the year last year so he is still one of the top 3 British/Irish flyhalves there are. I would like to see Sexton, Wilkinson and Paddy Jackson travel.

Mr.Prodston

Tox56 wrote: »

Well lets just say the man who was starting for England last week ahead of both English players named has a better chance of travelling than someone who was very lucky to be warming the bench for Ireland.

How can you claim that ROG is very lucky to be warming the Irish bench. Who would you pick over somebody with well over 100 caps for his country and still going strong? Jackson will be a cog in the machine going forward but I'd prefer to have experience while we have it to utilise.

Chances are ROG won't be picked but it's hardly his fault that somebody else suggests he might go. Lets see how he plays for Munster now over the next 2 months and reassess. Write him off at your peril is all I'll say.

Glass Prison 1214

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

How can you claim that ROG is very lucky to be warming the Irish bench. Who would you pick over somebody with well over 100 caps for his country and still going strong? Jackson will be a cog in the machine going forward but I'd prefer to have experience while we have it to utilise.

Chances are ROG won't be picked but it's hardly his fault that somebody else suggests he might go. Lets see how he plays for Munster now over the next 2 months and reassess. Write him off at your peril is all I'll say.

What exactly does ROG offer and bring to the game that makes you think he is still going strong?

Mr.Prodston

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

What exactly does ROG offer and bring to the game that makes you think he is still going strong?

Well just off the top of my head: consistent kicking, an alternative style to Sexton, ability to change a game, play-maker, experience and general ability.

Sure he has limitations like EVERY other player, and perhaps his can be exploited more than most but not many have his range of kicking and guidance which I deem rather important for an out-half.

Glass Prison 1214

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Well just off the top of my head: consistent kicking, an alternative style to Sexton, ability to change a game, play-maker, experience and general ability.

Sure he has limitations like EVERY other player, and perhaps his can be exploited more than most but not many have his range of kicking and guidance which I deem rather important for an out-half.

His place kicking is simply all he has going for him any more, over the past couple of years he has lost his ability to control a game and cant be considered a play-maker any more. Yes he has a lot of ability but father time has caught up with him so it is worthless at this stage, and he can have all the experience in the world but it wont matter if he doesn't use it, many of his decisions in games this season for both Munster and Ireland have been simply baffling. His contribution to the Autumn Internationals was throwing the game against South Africa and then bizarrely kicking the ball at the Argentinians before missing a tackle in the lead up to one of their trys. And don't get me started on his tackling......

Mr.Prodston

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

His place kicking is simply all he has going for him any more, over the past couple of years he has lost his ability to control a game and cant be considered a play-maker any more. Yes he has a lot of ability but father time has caught up with him so it is worthless at this stage, and he can have all the experience in the world but it wont matter if he doesn't use it, many of his decisions in games this season for both Munster and Ireland have been simply baffling. His contribution to the Autumn Internationals was throwing the game against South Africa and then bizarrely kicking the ball at the Argentinians before missing a tackle in the lead up to one of their trys. And don't get me started on his tackling......

Well I to be fair I alluded to his tackling myself and of course I agree that he's not as good as he once was due to "father time". The point I'm trying to make is when the chips are down and you need somebody to produce something off the bench it has to be ROG in my opinion.

Who would you propose takes his spot instead?

CoDy1

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Who would you propose takes his spot instead?

On the Lions squad??

is that a serious question?

buyer95

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

His place kicking is simply all he has going for him any more, over the past couple of years he has lost his ability to control a game and cant be considered a play-maker any more. Yes he has a lot of ability but father time has caught up with him so it is worthless at this stage, and he can have all the experience in the world but it wont matter if he doesn't use it, many of his decisions in games this season for both Munster and Ireland have been simply baffling. His contribution to the Autumn Internationals was throwing the game against South Africa and then bizarrely kicking the ball at the Argentinians before missing a tackle in the lead up to one of their trys. And don't get me started on his tackling......

B.S

Mr.Prodston

CoDy1 wrote: »

On the Lions squad??

is that a serious question?

No I just meant the Irish squad. Which is a little off topic I suppose. I'd imagine the 3 would be Sexton, Farrell (he is in the top 4 of the work sure) and a wildcard.

The wildcard probably coming from Biggar, Hook, ROG, Wilkinson, Flood or somebody else very left-field that I haven't thought of.

Fireball07

I love ROG but he's nowhere near deserving of a place in the Irish team, let alone the Lions. He doesn't really have the ability to change a game anymore and experience is grand but when someone is playing so much better (Jackson) they deserve to be given the chance. Imagine if Sexton got injured early on in a game? I don't think ROG has what it takes to last an hour of top class international rugby anymore.

He doesn't even deserve to start for Munster tbh but at least he still has something to offer there.


As for the Lions- Sexton, Laidlaw...and Farrell, I suppose. I wouldn't really like Farrell to be starting a test match tbqh.

I wouldn't pick Wilkinson either tbh... I'd prefer someone like Biggar. Although if Priestland is still getting played for Wales at the end of 6N, he could still be in with an undeserving shout. I'd have ROG ahead of Priestland in all honesty.

Hagz

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Who would you propose takes his spot instead?

Paddy Jackson. Jackson for me looks brilliant. He could easily have come off the bench against Argentina and made a real positive contribution, and gained some valuable experience too. I see no reason why he shouldn't be involved in the 6N. If Priestland, Farrell and Laidlaw are "capable" of playing 6N rugby, then It's hard to imagine that Jackson would be out of his depth. Perhaps physically, but then how much does ROG offer in that aspect. Plus, for all of ROG's experience, I genuinely believe that the youth/exuberance of young Jackson would benefit the squad more.

Mr.Prodston

Hagz wrote: »

Paddy Jackson. Jackson for me looks brilliant. He could easily have come off the bench against Argentina and made a real positive contribution, and gained some valuable experience too. I see no reason why he shouldn't be involved in the 6N. If Priestland, Farrell and Laidlaw are "capable" of playing 6N rugby, then It's hard to imagine that Jackson would be out of his depth. Perhaps physically, but then how much does ROG offer in that aspect. Plus, for all of ROG's experience, I genuinely believe that the youth/exuberance of young Jackson would benefit the squad more.

Oh for sure Jackson looks a player I just don't think he should be rushed. In hindsight 20 mins against Argentina would have been good but what if Argentina had turned up and we were level or down by 3 with 15 mins to go. It's swings and roundabouts I guess. This time next year I can see Jackson beginning to compete with Sexton.

If we had lost, resulting in demotion to tier 3 for the WC because Sexton was replaced by Jackson there would be absolute uproar that ROG was overlooked.

CoDy1

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

but what if Argentina had turned up and we were level or down by 3 with 15 mins to go.

Rog would have done nothing more than Sexton or Jackson are capable of doing imo

Podge_irl

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

what if Argentina had turned up and we were down by 3 with 15 mins to go.

We would have had to hope to **** that Sexton was fit enough to last 80.

Gatland seems to like Priestland. There has to be some reason that Biggar hasn't overtaken him at Wales so that should be factored in. Still hard to look past Sexton and then probably Farrell and Laidlaw with Flood in the picture.

ROG has precisely zero chance of touring.

bilston

Maybe Freddie Burns cameo yesterday for England showed what an inexperienced young out half can do. So why not Jackson?

Anyway as I said on the Lions thread much like the talk of Marshall and to a lesser extent Gilroy, who is at least on Gatland's radar albeit probably a bit down the list, talk of Jackson making the Lions squad is fanciful at the moment.

As for ROG, well if his contribution to Ireland in November hadn't been so poor I could have understood the experience argument. However he panicked against SA and got carried away against Argentina. He is miles away from the Lions.

Sexton, Farrell, Flood, Biggar, Priestland, Laidlaw, Wilkinson and now Burns are all ahead of him IMO and if there was any justice Jackson would be ahead of him as well, in fact some would argue that Keatley and Madigan should be ahead of him as well.

Elzevir

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Well there is a severe lack of top class 10s in Britain and Ireland, and Wilkinson is performing excellently for Toulon. He was nominated for European player of the year last year so he is still one of the top 3 British/Irish flyhalves there are. I would like to see Sexton, Wilkinson and Paddy Jackson travel.

Mate.. did you watch the England game?
At the moment the fly halves travelling will be Sexton, Farrell, and Freddie Burns. There is not so much as a sniff of a 'severe lack of top class 10s in GB and Ire.. : )

.ak

I wouldn't be surprised to see Sexton, Wilko and Biggar travel. I expect Biggar to have a big 6n.

rrpc

Elzevir wrote: »

Mate.. did you watch the England game?
At the moment the fly halves travelling will be Sexton, Farrell, and Freddie Burns. There is not so much as a sniff of a 'severe lack of top class 10s in GB and Ire.. : )

I watched it and tbh thought that Ben Youngs dictated most of the English play. Farrell did the kicking duties and moved the ball well, but for me it was Youngs who shone.

Elzevir

Fly half is a massive headache and one of our strongest positions..
It will come down to issues of game plan, issues of character as a potentially good egg on tour, issues of club form, issue of temperament in big HC games, and issues of FORM!!
One thing that is for sure is that with a KIWI 'Welsh' head coach, things, selection wise, will be balanced and fair.. There is a certain element of one or two selections in the Lions going down the route of 'barbarians style' picks.. and Scotland will certainly have a pick or two that some would argue will not be all that fair.. in other words I tip Laidlaw to get in.. Anyway I think he's a fab little player..
there is no point nitpicking over flyhalves. it has always been the 'glamour' position but it will come down to the nitty gritty of goalkicking etc. remember a guy called Neil Jug Ears? Well there is a glamourous outhalf if ever there was one..! But he was indispensible! Be prepared for some head scratchingly weird picks from the selectors, but I for one don't really care who they pick as long as Sexton is number one cos he deserves to be I'm very fond of that player I think he will prosper with a very strong (un-erratic) pack in front of him..

Quint2010

To even discuss ROG going on the Lions tour is getting pretty near a joke at this stage. ROG was shown up on the last Lions tour four years ago when he lost the Lions the series. I honestly think his mate Kidney is only keeping him in the Ireland squad so he can have a chance of another Lions tour. Sexton, Biggar, Flood, Farrell, Jackson, Keatley and Laidlaw are all ahead of him in the pecking order in my opinion. Gatland is the sort of animal who has shown he is not afraid to select youth. ROG has no chance. He won't even be on standby. Deccie will still pick him of course.

Glass Prison 1214

rrpc wrote: »

I watched it and tbh thought that Ben Youngs dictated most of the English play. Farrell did the kicking duties and moved the ball well, but for me it was Youngs who shone.

I agree with this, Farrell was decent enough but he didnt show enough to suggest he is Lions quality.

Elzevir

rrpc wrote: »

I watched it and tbh thought that Ben Youngs dictated most of the English play. Farrell did the kicking duties and moved the ball well, but for me it was Youngs who shone.

Some of the tackles Farrell makes are unreal mate.. The guy is a tiny bit overrated, but just a tiny bit.. I'm not saying he is better than Laidlaw, Jackson, Madigan, Keatley, any of those fellas, but they are not a lot better than HIM either!!!!! I think Jackson's time will come later mate.. He just needs to keep his head down. For me Laidlaw would be the more 'romantic' pick. He is a lovely little player and more likely to be overlooked than anybody..

I would LIKE to see Rog definitely left at home.. Guys.. fret not, there is no way on Earth ROG will travel!!!! There is no WAY gatland will pick him...
and Sexton, Burns, and Laidlaw to travel..

but my head says Sexton, Farrell, and Priestland will travel.. That is if Wales have the big 6N I expect they will

and also I think Gatland is a big fan of Priestland, AND anyway the guy is a good player!!!

Hagz

Elzevir wrote: »

S
and also I think Gatland is a big fan of Priestland, AND anyway the guy is a good player!!!

I don't see what Priestland has to offer at all. He looked decent in the WC, but I think the form of others made him look good. As an individual player, he's very limited.

Hagz

Hagz wrote: »

I don't see what Priestland has to offer at all. He looked decent in the WC, but I think the form of others made him look good. As an individual player, he's very limited.

Priestland was unreal at the WC, not good.

That being said, it's probably his only ever concerted period of mixing good form with more than decent ability. I've never seen him replicate anything similar for Scarlets.

Unfortunately the WC to me looks like the exception to me, not the rule.