Vettel Versus Webber Mark won't play second fiddle to Sebastian Vettel next season

the culture of deference

Mark Webber is adamant he won't play second fiddle to Sebastian Vettel next season despite the German being a triple World Champion..

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/8296487/No-supporting-role-for-Webber

I like Mark Webber. I think he is a genuine bloke, and an excellent racing driver. Will he be allowed to challenge Seb in 2013. Does he do a good enough job as number 2 driver or are RB making a mistake keeping him.

His results against Seb say something different. What other driver would be able to do what Seb has done.

With 2 webbers in the red bull they wouldn't even have won a single championship


2009


Vettel ended the year as championship runner-up with 84 points and Webber 4th place with 69.5 points.

In qually
Vettel 15 Webber 2 with the average gap 0.112secs and the average gap in qualifying position 3 places. Vettel obtained 4 pole positions during the year and Webber got 1 pole

Vettel 4 wins. Webber 2 wins.
Both ended the season with 3 fastest laps to their name.


2010 Very close to each other, Webber spun off in the wet.


Vettel won the World Championship at the final race in Abu Dhabi and outscored Webber - 256 to 242 points.

In Qualy Vettel 12 webber 7
Vettel obtained 10 pole positions Webber got 5 pole positions

Vettel finished the season with 5 wins compared to Webber's 4 wins, with 3 fastest laps each.


2011 Vettel slaughter's Mark


Vettel wins the championship on 392 points, Webber on 258 points.

Qually
Vettel 16 (15 poles) Webber 3

Vettel won 11 races Webber 1 (Vettel speculated gearbox problem)

7 fastest laps for Webber compared to Vettel's 3.


2012


Vettel wins the championship

Qually
Seb 6 poles, Webber 2 poles

Seb has 5 wins 10 podiums, webber has 2 wins, 4 podiums.
Seb 6 fastest laps, Webber 1

Vegeta

Pirelli tyres ruined Webber. They came in for 2011 and it's like Mark's talent suddenly halved. Either that or Sebastian winning the Championship in 2010 cemented him as number 1 driver in the team. Then there's Mark's age.

Sebastian is a better driver but it would make for more interesting viewing if both drivers are battling each other for the championship. Inter team politics/rivalries are great to watch.

frostie500

Vegeta wrote: »

Pirelli tyres ruined Webber. They came in for 2011 and it's like Mark's talent suddenly halved. Either that or Sebastian winning the Championship in 2010 cemented him as number 1 driver in the team. Then there's Mark's age.

Sebastian is a better driver but it would make for more interesting viewing if both drivers are battling each other for the championship. Inter team politics/rivalries are great to watch.

I think that last year the tyres hurt Webber hugely but not this season. Until the major upgrade at Singapore Webber was a match for Seb for most of the season. In fact when the Red Bull was poor for the first half of the season Webber was more often that not outqualifying Vettel. When the car performance picked up Seb was much better though

And in fairness its hardly surprising for Webber to say this. He's not an Irvine or Barrichello number two. He's a number two in the same way that Coulthard was number two to Hakkinen. Seb is faster and a better racer but if all things come together for Webber he can mount a championship challenge but time is clearly running out for him at this stage

Vegeta

frostie500 wrote: »

I think that last year the tyres hurt Webber hugely but not this season. Until the major upgrade at Singapore Webber was a match for Seb for most of the season. In fact when the Red Bull was poor for the first half of the season Webber was more often that not outqualifying Vettel. When the car performance picked up Seb was much better though

Do you think there was an element, this year, of Seb getting upgrades before Mark? I agree with you, when the car performance picked up, Seb seemed to benefit more.

If you're Red Bull and you look at 2009 and 2010, clearly Vettel is the better driver.

So you start to design the car to suit him rather than 50/50, you start to make strategic calls that favour him, he gets the best parts, Webber is testing parts for reliability etc. All of a sudden he is slaughtering Webber in 2011.

It wasn't that Vettel got massively better or Webber got massively worse. The momentum just swung in Vettels favour. Webber hasn't got a chance now to be perfectly honest, the deck is stacked against him.

frostie500

Vegeta wrote: »

Do you think there was an element, this year, of Seb getting upgrades before Mark? I agree with you, when the car performance picked up, Seb seemed to benefit more.

No from everything I've been told by the team and seen at the races this year I do think that both drivers were getting the same parts. However it's also pretty clear that when the car is perfect Seb is better at maximising the package but when it's a little bit "off" Webber is able to get a lot out of the package.

Whether it's a mental issue for Seb (if thats the case its his one real weakness) but early in the year we saw a pretty annoyed Seb where he snapped at a couple of interviews and such but once the car was great he was back to his relaxed, happy self. Maybe Mark is just better at dealing with a car that isnt quite perfect

Frankie Lee

I might be in the minority here but I don't rate Mark Webber as ever being a top level driver.
It is hard to remember him having a season where he dominated his team mate and the likes of Nick Heidfeld and an old David Coulthard have been more than a match for him.
Now his age will become a factor also and I can't see him ever challenging Vettel again.

Ghost Train

Have never been a big fan of Webber, would be nice to see the two red bulls racing more often, I think the last two seasons have hurt Webber. Has been a bit unlucky this year... kers seemed to give his trouble a few times. Hard to see him get the better of Vettel at this stage... maybe if Vettels luck changes but gap between them seems to be too much

dastardly00

Webber will really need to improve his starts next year. He has been very poor off the grid this year.

paddy147

Didnt Webber sign with RB for only 1 more year though???

So of course he is not going to play 2nd fiddle to Vettel,if he wants to pick up a seat in another team for 2014.

smellslikeshoes

paddy147 wrote: »

Didnt Webber sign with RB for only 1 more year though???

So of course he is not going to play 2nd fiddle to Vettel,if he wants to pick up a seat in another team for 2014.

Don't think he will end up going to another team after Red bull. He's 36 now and will be 37 before end of next season. Another one or two single year contracts with Redbull and then I imagine he will call it a day.

paddy147

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Don't think he will end up going to another team after Red bull. He's 36 now and will be 37 before end of next season. Another one or two single year contracts with Redbull and then I imagine he will call it a day.

DTM perhaps???

LeMans series??

Aussie V8 saloon cars...along side Casey Stoner??


He loves MotoGP and motorbikes in general.


A few years ago on the BBC,he hinted that after F1 he would like to enter a team into MotoGP.

So maybe that could be a possibility???



I mean if Paris Hilton can do it in the old 125cc class (now Moto3) then why cant Webber do it in MotoGP??

kartincolin

When the characteristics of the RB8 mimicked those of the RB7, Seb found another gear and blew Webber into the weeds.

Webber is a fantastic driver in his own right, but he is always fighting an uphill battle against Vettel, a driver who`s ultimate pace is downplayed by the hugely biased Martin Brundle and Sky Sports F1 (I will try not to rant!)

He made the right choice not going to Ferrari, at Red Bull he will have a competitive car for the duration of the season and for the opening part of the season be on a level playing field with Seb, whereas Alonso will always be number 1.