Eurozone Unemployment reaches new high, Irish figures projected to rise again...

HellFireClub

For all the summits and 5 point plans, it appears that the scourge of unemployment continues to spread:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/eurozone-unemployment-hits-new-peak-576123.html

Unemployment hits 11.7% across the Eurozone, with Spain & Greece harbouring unemployment rates of over 25%.

Meanwhile back on the ranch:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/ernst-and-young-forecast-rise-in-unemployment-575978.html

Ernst & Young are predicting an unemployment rate next year of 15.3% for Ireland.

[Jackass]

Not surprising really. There has been virtually zero growth and more and more companies hanging on will be going to the wall.

I don't know how long this fiscal conservatism can continue before we realise that the only way to get out of a recession is to grow the economy, and the only way to grow the economy is to spend money, and the only way we can spend money is to get a stimulus package from Europe, and giving them back all the money they gave us in the first place is just running around in circles whilst the Economy continues to circle the drain...

HellFireClub

[Jackass] wrote: »

Not surprising really. There has been virtually zero growth and more and more companies hanging on will be going to the wall.

I don't know how long this fiscal conservatism can continue before we realise that the only way to get out of a recession is to grow the economy, and the only way to grow the economy is to spend money, and the only way we can spend money is to get a stimulus package from Europe, and giving them back all the money they gave us in the first place is just running around in circles whilst the Economy continues to circle the drain...

Couldn't agree more, I run a small business and I'm actively thinking of heading abroad for a few years, if there was any hope at all in terms of things turning around, even a small bit, I think I'd stay and slog it out but in terms of being a trader in the domestic economy, I'm just not seeing anything except a situation whereby things are going to worsen every month.

Medu

[Jackass] wrote: »

Not surprising really. There has been virtually zero growth and more and more companies hanging on will be going to the wall.

I don't know how long this fiscal conservatism can continue before we realise that the only way to get out of a recession is to grow the economy, and the only way to grow the economy is to spend money, and the only way we can spend money is to get a stimulus package from Europe, and giving them back all the money they gave us in the first place is just running around in circles whilst the Economy continues to circle the drain...

So Europe should just give us free money for us to get back on our feet- same for Spain/Italy/Portugal/Greece?

People need to realise that the world is changing. Most people that have lost their jobs were what is viewed as 'low' value jobs, or high value jobs that exists due to the existence of all the low value jobs(civil engineers, architects). The western worlds master plan is to get all those people into high value jobs which just isn't realistic especially as developing countries are becoming just as capable at filling those roles.

The only countries that truly weathered the financial storm are countries that had good fundamentals to begin with- German/China. Countries with weak foundations have been exposed and no amount of stimulus helped the USA(the election is the false economy that they have been talking up will be exposed once they cut the unsustainable spending), and no amount of cuts will solve the problems in the PIIGS without radical reforms.

What people keep missing is that the only way to 'stimulate' the economy is to print trillions of euro's and devalue our currency which makes us all poorer but more competitive which is exactly what the austerity is doing but in a different way.

Whatever way we go about it the end goal is the same- the West needs to start manufacturing more of what it consumes.

Icepick

[Jackass] wrote: »

Not surprising really. There has been virtually zero growth and more and more companies hanging on will be going to the wall.

I don't know how long this fiscal conservatism can continue before we realise that the only way to get out of a recession is to grow the economy, and the only way to grow the economy is to spend money, and the only way we can spend money is to get a stimulus package from Europe, and giving them back all the money they gave us in the first place is just running around in circles whilst the Economy continues to circle the drain...

We don't need another bubble and artificial unsustainable economic growth. Governments need to cut taxes, expenses and bring about real reforms that will make doing business easier and cheaper.

KINGVictor

Medu wrote: »

So Europe should just give us free money for us to get back on our feet- same for Spain/Italy/Portugal/Greece?

People need to realise that the world is changing. Most people that have lost their jobs were what is viewed as 'low' value jobs, or high value jobs that exists due to the existence of all the low value jobs(civil engineers, architects). The western worlds master plan is to get all those people into high value jobs which just isn't realistic especially as developing countries are becoming just as capable at filling those roles.

The only countries that truly weathered the financial storm are countries that had good fundamentals to begin with- German/China. Countries with weak foundations have been exposed and no amount of stimulus helped the USA(the election is the false economy that they have been talking up will be exposed once they cut the unsustainable spending), and no amount of cuts will solve the problems in the PIIGS without radical reforms.

What people keep missing is that the only way to 'stimulate' the economy is to print trillions of euro's and devalue our currency which makes us all poorer but more competitive which is exactly what the austerity is doing but in a different way.

Whatever way we go about it the end goal is the same- the West needs to start manufacturing more of what it consumes.

So you are essentially implying that China has "good fundamentals" and the US has a weak one?

djpbarry

[Jackass] wrote: »

I don't know how long this fiscal conservatism can continue before we realise that the only way to get out of a recession is to grow the economy, and the only way to grow the economy is to spend money, and the only way we can spend money is to get a stimulus package from Europe...

How much is this stimulus package going to cost? How big will it be? What will it be spent on? Fuelling another construction boom?

Medu wrote: »

Whatever way we go about it the end goal is the same- the West needs to start manufacturing more of what it consumes.

The West can’t compete with developing countries on low-end manufacturing – it’s pointless even trying. People have to accept that those jobs are not coming back.

Medu

djpbarry wrote: »

The West can’t compete with developing countries on low-end manufacturing – it’s pointless even trying. People have to accept that those jobs are not coming back.

Right now, of course not. However after 15-20 years of zero growth, or negative, in the western world the difference will be very very different. And that is what this is- a LONG term process(15-20 is probably less than it will take, that is what I said here 4 years ago so I will stick by it for another few!) People need to stop thinking that there is an easy solution to this problem- there are none. As I said above when people talk about stimulating the economy either they don't understand what they are saying, or they do and they don't explain what they mean by it as what it amounts to is making everyone less well off.

So you are essentially implying that China has "good fundamentals" and the US has a weak one?

Yes? The west's time is coming to an end and it will all play out in our lifetime. China's way of governance has serious issues but if you want to build a strong sustainable economy then it's the way to go. Western governments only thinking about the next election is one of the main reasons we are where we are.

djpbarry

Medu wrote: »

Right now, of course not.

Right now, tomorrow, next year, next decade ... whenever. Those jobs ain’t coming back.

If they do, it’s a sign that things have gone seriously awry.

Medu wrote: »

China's way of governance has serious issues but if you want to build a strong sustainable economy then it's the way to go.

No, it isn’t. China’s rigid political structure and education system are not conducive to innovation. There’s no way we’ll be seeing the Chinese equivalent of Silicon Valley any time soon.

hmmm

djpbarry wrote: »

The West can’t compete with developing countries on low-end manufacturing – it’s pointless even trying. People have to accept that those jobs are not coming back.

10 years ago I'd have said yes, but two things have changed my mind:
1. The US is about to gain a massive competitive advantage due to the availability of cheap energy, particularly shale gas & oil. Energy intensive industry will increase spending in the US.
2. Wage rates in emerging markets are catching up fast, so weakening their competitive advantage. "Reshoring" is a word we'll hear more of in the near future.

djpbarry

hmmm wrote: »

1. The US is about to gain a massive competitive advantage due to the availability of cheap energy, particularly shale gas & oil. Energy intensive industry will increase spending in the US.
2. Wage rates in emerging markets are catching up fast, so weakening their competitive advantage. "Reshoring" is a word we'll hear more of in the near future.

On number 1, yeah, that may well be a factor, but more for things like heavy industry (steel production, for example) rather than textiles or cheap consumables.

But as for number 2, wages in India, Brazil and China still have a long, long way to go before they catch Ireland, for example.

Idbatterim

I don't know how long this fiscal conservatism can continue before we realise that the only way to get out of a recession is to grow the economy, and the only way to grow the economy is to spend money, and the only way we can spend money is to get a stimulus package from Europe, and giving them back all the money they gave us in the first place is just running around in circles whilst the Economy continues to circle the drain...

I agree partly with this, i think you have one group who arent spending as they have nothing left to spend and another sizeable group not spending, out of fear... This is one of the big issue's I see with stretching the deficit reduction over a prolonged period...

HellFireClub

I personally think people are very quickly running out of patience with the decisions that are being made in this country and civil unrest is only around the corner in my opinion.

djpbarry

HellFireClub wrote: »

I personally think people are very quickly running out of patience with the decisions that are being made in this country...

What decisions are you referring to exactly? The decision to raise taxes? To cut welfare? To cut the number of public sector employees?

HellFireClub

djpbarry wrote: »

What decisions are you referring to exactly? The decision to raise taxes? To cut welfare? To cut the number of public sector employees?

Yes, these decisions would make sense on some level if the net effect of four years of these policies was not that things are a lot worse now then they were back in 2008. Austerity has not worked anywhere, ever. We are blindly committed to an ideology in the EU, that has failed, the EU, for all it's free trade rubbish, is afraid to tolerate a bank failing, this notion of sovereign countries having to borrow to keep failed basket case banks open, and taxpayers having to pay for it, its outrageous.

hmmm

HellFireClub wrote: »

I personally think people are very quickly running out of patience with the decisions that are being made in this country and civil unrest is only around the corner in my opinion.

The same old same old tune. If the Irish people weren't willing to take part in the "great riot of 2007" to install RBB as grand poobah and Komisar, they're not about to start now as things are looking up.

djpbarry

HellFireClub wrote: »

Yes, these decisions would make sense on some level if the net effect of four years of these policies was not that things are a lot worse now then they were back in 2008.

Based on what measure?

HellFireClub wrote: »

Austerity has not worked anywhere, ever.

It would appear to be working in Ireland in 2012.

HellFireClub wrote: »

We are blindly committed to an ideology in the EU, that has failed, the EU, for all it's free trade rubbish, is afraid to tolerate a bank failing, this notion of sovereign countries having to borrow to keep failed basket case banks open, and taxpayers having to pay for it, its outrageous.

It would be outrageous, if it were true. Ireland is borrowing primarily to run Ireland, not to prevent banks failing. Blaming the banks for everything is all well and good (and extremely popular), but it ignores the fact that Ireland has been living way beyond it's means for some time.

Icepick

Medu wrote: »

Right now, of course not. However after 15-20 years of zero growth, or negative, in the western world the difference will be very very different. And that is what this is- a LONG term process(15-20 is probably less than it will take, that is what I said here 4 years ago so I will stick by it for another few!) People need to stop thinking that there is an easy solution to this problem- there are none. As I said above when people talk about stimulating the economy either they don't understand what they are saying, or they do and they don't explain what they mean by it as what it amounts to is making everyone less well off.



Yes? The west's time is coming to an end and it will all play out in our lifetime. China's way of governance has serious issues but if you want to build a strong sustainable economy then it's the way to go. Western governments only thinking about the next election is one of the main reasons we are where we are.

So the minimum wage should be like 3 euros in 15-20 years in real terms? And that will help us how?

thebman

I disagree that manufacturing jobs aren't coming back from China.

I think they will mostly disappear altogether in favor of automated lines with better robotic technology and improvements in 3D printing.

Next 20 years and there will be a lot fewer jobs for everyone and the low birthrates will seem like a blessing in disguise despite the pension issues.

There is some argument in the idea of skilled workers working to pay the pensions of the previous generation but I imagine there will be little appetite for paying for the people you grew up with that didn't work as hard in school to stay not working for the rest of their lives.

So what happens then? In theory, you could imagine, the increase in productivity should free people to go onto better things but so far, it seems we mostly get more X-factor...

[Jackass]

djpbarry wrote: »

How much is this stimulus package going to cost? How big will it be? What will it be spent on? Fuelling another construction boom?
The West can’t compete with developing countries on low-end manufacturing – it’s pointless even trying. People have to accept that those jobs are not coming back.

Icepick wrote: »

We don't need another bubble and artificial unsustainable economic growth. Governments need to cut taxes, expenses and bring about real reforms that will make doing business easier and cheaper.

Medu wrote: »

So Europe should just give us free money for us to get back on our feet- same for Spain/Italy/Portugal/Greece?

People need to realise that the world is changing. Most people that have lost their jobs were what is viewed as 'low' value jobs, or high value jobs that exists due to the existence of all the low value jobs(civil engineers, architects). The western worlds master plan is to get all those people into high value jobs which just isn't realistic especially as developing countries are becoming just as capable at filling those roles.

The only countries that truly weathered the financial storm are countries that had good fundamentals to begin with- German/China. Countries with weak foundations have been exposed and no amount of stimulus helped the USA(the election is the false economy that they have been talking up will be exposed once they cut the unsustainable spending), and no amount of cuts will solve the problems in the PIIGS without radical reforms.

What people keep missing is that the only way to 'stimulate' the economy is to print trillions of euro's and devalue our currency which makes us all poorer but more competitive which is exactly what the austerity is doing but in a different way.

Whatever way we go about it the end goal is the same- the West needs to start manufacturing more of what it consumes.

I take all these points on board, but then, I don't see any real other solution offered.

Obviously, I can't claim to be absolutely correct and even if I spent a serious amount of time on metrics for a stimulus package, the bottom line is that with the human element of Economics, it's always difficult to gauge response to any sort of stimulus, be it political policy or financial.

On the note of a bubble though, it's an ironic comment imo. At the moment (and this is just one example) we have 5% reserves for our pension liabilities, and we are now contributing less to the pension fund than we will be due to pay out (i.e. the gap is widening) - now if we want to talk about bubbles, this is a ticking time bomb where not expanding growth is not an option

Also, people assume stimulus spending basically means we should build roads. It doesn't matter where they go, just build roads.

Well, I have been an advocate for a long time that capitalism is the greatest Economic instrument we have ever conjured, HOWEVER, that is only true if you ruthlessly allow the capitalist rules to apply.

First of all, we are in a small, open Economy. Any open Economy left to its own devices will run riot, it's human nature - it's greed and it's everyone trying to get rich quick, so any open market needs to operate within very strict rules - that is regulation. That's where we failed first of all.

But second of all, where we failed most of all, is that any disfunctional enterprise must be allowed to fail. Bailouts completely contradict the rules of capitalism, and that is exactly why we're in the mess we are in now.

I was in favor of it at the time, so not benefiting from retrospect so much, but all our banks should have been allowed to fail and instead of getting a bailout to prop up failing enterprise, it should have been used for a new, state bank, which the shareholder (taxpayer) would own and it would pay back the shareholder by selling its self when that time becomes viable, but you also maintain complete control of the money supply in your Economy to the most micro level and it would be a lot easier to correct the economy now. Just as an anicdote, the U.S. stimulus package was so badly mismanaged, if they went back in time, they could give each US citizen about $100,000 each to go out and spend which would have been a much better way of stimulating the Economy, but how and ever..

A properly managed bailout can consist of much more than building roads. For example, we could look at developing niche markets, such as in education, massive investment in our universities could not only give us a superior level of graduate and skills in the work force (assuming that we will also be successful in other areas to create growth and jobs to prevent a brain drain - but it all starts with credible policy, and that means not showing fear about losing talent), education can become an export market for Ireland.

Couple with that, massive subsadies put aside for the location of internationaly funded research centres to be located in Ireland. This would bring a phenominal amount of specialised scientific employment to our shores, land and construction subsidies and allowances could be made, couple it with our expanding university investment and our low corporation tax and we could open up a very credible, world class research hub in Europe. The presence of this research would also bring investment from abroad to our universities, thus by default making it a public / private partnership.

Of course this would also have to involve adjustments to make our public sector more efficient and we still need to legislate strongly on "super pensions" that can act retrospectively and we also need to bring in complete legislative reform of corporate white collar crime, again acting retrospectively, and gain some criminal convictions from criminal activity from the boom. Start with the lads from anglo - again, this isn't major in the grand scheme of things, but it is appeasing public sentiment and again lends credence to credible policy and credible Government - all these things change the tone of public perception.

There is a very low multiplier on the ratio of Government expenditure to output generation at the moment and this would be another area that would need to be worked on. Mass subsidies could be introduced to private sector to get people spending - I mean you can use your own imagination on this - €1,000 bonus payment on purchase of a new car or whatever, basically giving an incentive to get cash into small business' and tax payers hands and get transactions happening...

I know this is a long lonnnng post and sorry about that, but basically the point I'm making is that yes people can think we just need to cut the arse out of our Economy and squeeze it until it can't breath, but in terms of rolling the eyes and fearing a bubble, we are at the tip of the iceberg here when it comes to national bankruptcy, and at the moment we're only kicking the can down the road, and the more and more you raise taxes and cut expenditure, the more money you're taking out of the Economy, the less there is to spend, tax receipts eventually fall despite higher rate, services fail with lack of expenditure... I agree on efficiency, but we're living on borrowed time, and you can't JUST tax or cut spending out of a recession - it is completely counter productive.

Keynes rebuilt the British economy post World War by living by one simple rule - the less money you have, the more you should spend.

The British Economy, despite the undertaking of expense of a world war and complete and utter structural demolition, grew at a faster rate than Ireland for the following 50 odd years (and supposedly small, poor economies should grow faster than big ones, known as convergence - or catch up economies.)

djpbarry

[Jackass] wrote: »

I take all these points on board, but then, I don't see any real other solution offered.

I’ve said before on boards that Ireland’s biggest problem is unemployment and I honestly have no idea what to do about it. I think a lot of young men who previously worked in construction will probably never work again.

There is one thing that could be done though – make it easier for non-EU citizens to get work permits. There are a lot of jobs in Ireland going unfilled, so let’s make it easier for non-EU citizens to fill them.

[Jackass] wrote: »

But second of all, where we failed most of all, is that any disfunctional enterprise must be allowed to fail. Bailouts completely contradict the rules of capitalism, and that is exactly why we're in the mess we are in now.

No, Ireland’s in the mess it is in primarily because successive governments spent far more than they could afford on the back of an unsustainable, government-endorsed bubble.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Couple with that, massive subsadies put aside for the location of internationaly funded research centres to be located in Ireland.

Your enthusiasm for science is admirable, but where are these massive subsidies going to come from? Ireland is already spending way more than it can afford to.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Keynes rebuilt the British economy post World War by living by one simple rule - the less money you have, the more you should spend.

I very much doubt Keynes would suggest the same course of action now as he did post WWII – different set of circumstances completely. It’s not like the man was a one trick pony:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18923542

Medu

Icepick wrote: »

So the minimum wage should be like 3 euros in 15-20 years in real terms? And that will help us how?

You need to stop thinking small and think big. In truth the changes will be hurt more people than it will help but that doesn't mean it's not necessary. The whole economy needs to change before the west can truly recover. Wages increasing is of course great for people in employment and has some positive effects on the economy. However the negative effect is that it makes us more uncompetitive and we will be even less likely to have successful start-ups or be to attract new companies.

I’ve said before on boards that Ireland’s biggest problem is unemployment and I honestly have no idea what to do about it. I think a lot of young men who previously worked in construction will probably never work again.

There is one thing that could be done though – make it easier for non-EU citizens to get work permits. There are a lot of jobs in Ireland going unfilled, so let’s make it easier for non-EU citizens to fill them.

I am sure there are jobs, but not a lot of them. If there are then we need to retrain people for those positions ASAP.

zom

With $3 / hour rate you get 60-70% of people emigrating straight away (in this 99% of young people). Low salary rate is not an option, there are hundreds of countries with lower rates than Ireland and they are not doing much better.
And it's not true that people don't have money to spend - they are afraid to spend, prefer to keep and save them for "rainy day" or "better time to invest". Sum in banks on saving accounts is actually higher than any time before (I might remember wrongly but it was like 12% of gross income last year while people tend to save 2-3% while Celtic Tiger time).

djpbarry

Medu wrote: »

I am sure there are jobs, but not a lot of them. If there are then we need to retrain people for those positions ASAP.

I'm all for helping people retrain, but you can't expect Google (for example) to keep a position open for four years while applicants go and get degrees in computer science.

zom

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm all for helping people retrain, but you can't expect Google (for example) to keep a position open for four years while applicants go and get degrees in computer science.

Not to mention Google - try to find good shop assistant (one not to skip every Monday morning because hangover) or receptionist (the same issue female option). I hear from such companies owners that they have to employ emigrants because they can't find reliable Irish. I know it's not as prestigious positions as Google, but does it mean its better stay on the dole?

Godge

HellFireClub wrote: »

For all the summits and 5 point plans, it appears that the scourge of unemployment continues to spread:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/eurozone-unemployment-hits-new-peak-576123.html

Unemployment hits 11.7% across the Eurozone, with Spain & Greece harbouring unemployment rates of over 25%.

Meanwhile back on the ranch:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/ernst-and-young-forecast-rise-in-unemployment-575978.html

Ernst & Young are predicting an unemployment rate next year of 15.3% for Ireland.

So in the real world of actual statistices where the live register is on the way down (by over 12,000 in the year) instead of acknowledging this and looking on the bright side, some of us are searching for the doom and gloom of future predictions.

OMD

HellFireClub wrote: »

Ernst & Young are predicting an unemployment rate next year of 15.3% for Ireland.

As they were auditors for Anglo Irish it is very difficult to trust anything they say to be honest.

djpbarry

zom wrote: »

Not to mention Google - try to find good shop assistant (one not to skip every Monday morning because hangover) or receptionist (the same issue female option). I hear from such companies owners that they have to employ emigrants because they can't find reliable Irish.

Bit of a silly generalisation.

zom

djpbarry wrote: »

Bit of a silly generalisation.

Not really. Quite often see it through young generation spoiled by welfare security - they rather go on the dole, start a new course or migrate than get "low prestige" positions as shop assistant. They don't need it. Older people have much less options and age is their disadvantage on job market so they are much reasonable (and lot of them still remember pre-Tiger time). I know 2 young people who already did couple internships to fancy companies and they are not interested in any "low prestig"e jobs - they have enough money from welfare to live like that for years.

Godge

HellFireClub wrote: »

I personally think people are very quickly running out of patience with the decisions that are being made in this country and civil unrest is only around the corner in my opinion.

You are right, you should have seen the scrums in Tesco last night as people fought to buy up all the wine (at 25% discount) before the €1 increase hit.

Unfortunately for your opinion, that is the closest this country will get to civil unrest.

whatdoicare

zom wrote: »

Not to mention Google - try to find good shop assistant (one not to skip every Monday morning because hangover) or receptionist (the same issue female option). I hear from such companies owners that they have to employ emigrants because they can't find reliable Irish. I know it's not as prestigious positions as Google, but does it mean its better stay on the dole?

Well, my manager is experiencing the opposite, she's taken on emigrants who actually dont understand English beyond the few sentences, just enough to fool her in the interview, are lieing about their experience and what qualifications they have and are not willing to actually do some work. Sure, they're there every hour they're given but they're not pulling their weight.
In the last week she's let two go during their probation weeks and demoted a girl who claimed she had management experience but didn't.

So, it swings both ways now.

HellFireClub

Godge wrote: »

So in the real world of actual statistices where the live register is on the way down (by over 12,000 in the year) instead of acknowledging this and looking on the bright side, some of us are searching for the doom and gloom of future predictions.

The live register might be down, if it is, it is mainly due to people leaving the country, hardly an indicator of any dramatic policy success. I'm an employer and from my own experience, things have never been as bad, this nonsense of "we are a small open economy and therefore we need to wait for a worldwide economic recovery", is just an outrageous statement for any politician to make, it's the equivalent of being in 4th class in primary school and stupidly hoping that the kid sitting beside you in class, will do your homework for you before you have to turn up again in class tomorrow.

We can't all work in Microsoft or Google, but this is what we are pinning our ridiculous hopes to, that FDI is the answer to everything, that "inward investment" when it arrives, will float our boat again, it's like this government think that we are too stupid to create our own jobs and that we are as a nation, only smart enough to put the stickers on the boxes for Dell.

coolshannagh28

There s been a change of tack by the government vis a vis the domestic economy , have they realised that FDI is not going to solve our problems as the tax take and employment numbers from the multinationals are a joke and as long as the world economy remains stagnant there s nothing coming from there,or are we being softened up?
The domestic economy is all the rage and their strategy now seems to be to protect it, even the unions have jumped on this bandwagon
Britain is making noise on corporation tax as are the europeans ,they are not going to allow multinationals to pay little or no tax and I can see a day when we will have a flat rate europewide and more monitoring of their behaviour . will a deal on the promissory notes an
our bank debt be tied to this ?

starlit

I still cannot understand why unemployment is rising in the Eurozone if anything it should be reduced at this stage but is it down to the Euro I wonder? The UK are slowly getting out of the recession. They didn't have it as bad compared to the Eurozone/Ireland though things did make Ireland worse off than most of the other countries in the Eurozone. Though the borrowings, bail outs and austerity probably hasn't eased the unemployment from rising in the Eurozone, so whose fault is it Merkel?

djpbarry

doovdela wrote: »

The UK are slowly getting out of the recession. They didn't have it as bad compared to the Eurozone/Ireland...

News to me. The UK's public deficit is similar in size to Ireland's (expressed as % GDP), there are significant unemployment blackspots (particularly in the West Midlands, north east and Northern Ireland), youth unemployment is a massive problem (far bigger than in Ireland) and economic growth has been negative in three of the last four quarters.

Mr. teddywinkles

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm all for helping people retrain, but you can't expect Google (for example) to keep a position open for four years while applicants go and get degrees in computer science.

Sry but this thing has been going on 5 years now. Would have given anyone amble time to get a different qualification Beside I dont think thats the problem.

starlit

djpbarry wrote: »

News to me. The UK's public deficit is similar in size to Ireland's (expressed as % GDP), there are significant unemployment blackspots (particularly in the West Midlands, north east and Northern Ireland), youth unemployment is a massive problem (far bigger than in Ireland) and economic growth has been negative in three of the last four quarters.

It was in the news/media recently a few weeks back and anyone I know living there have mentioned it. The areas you've mentioned I'd imagine aren't out of it totally. I thought Northern Ireland wouldn't be too bad with the sterling?

ardmacha

It was in the news/media recently a few weeks back and anyone I know living there have mentioned it

The UK isn't much better than the ROI. They haven't really faced up to things, whereas people in Ireland at least know there is a mess which might be first step to improvement.

djpbarry

doovdela wrote: »

It was in the news/media recently a few weeks back and anyone I know living there have mentioned it.

Anyone you know has mentioned what? That everything's grand? Well, it isn't. Not by a long shot (for the reasons mentioned above).

doovdela wrote: »

I thought Northern Ireland wouldn't be too bad with the sterling?

So the UK generally is not in good shape (with NI being in particularly poor shape for several decades now), but you thought that NI would be grand because they use the same currency as the rest of the UK?

What is this ridiculous blind faith that people seem to have in sterling?

frankosw

ardmacha wrote: »

The UK isn't much better than the ROI. They haven't really faced up to things.

Parts of the UK are suffering terribly(particularly the northern cities) whereas London is booming the same as ever with a few exceptions.

spank_inferno

George Osbourne announced "negative growth" recently.
The UK will more than likely enter a "triple-dip" recession in the first or second quaters of next year.
UK budget defecits are rising as is public spending & government debt.

I don't think it's a 'Euro zone' issue specifically.

Mr. teddywinkles

frankosw wrote: »

Parts of the UK are suffering terribly(particularly the northern cities) whereas London is booming the same as ever with a few exceptions.

Could be due to the olympics though.

ChRoMe

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Could be due to the olympics though.

Olympics had close to no effect, in fact some retailers claim it had a negative effect on the city's economy.

London is an economic powerhouse, which is thankfully showing no signs of slowing down.

To put it into perspective, the London economy is bigger than wales,scotland and NI combined.

djpbarry

ChRoMe wrote: »

London is an economic powerhouse, which is thankfully showing no signs of slowing down.

Probably wouldn't be a bad thing if that economic power was more evenly spread around the country - the UK is far too dependent on the City of London to drive the economy.

ChRoMe

djpbarry wrote: »

Probably wouldn't be a bad thing if that economic power was more evenly spread around the country - the UK is far too dependent on the City of London to drive the economy.

Yeah for UK as a whole, it would be wise to entice people/businesses away from the SE.

However we both know thats never going to happen for a variety of reasons. I sometimes I have to remind myself, I dont live in the UK, I live in London