Silage results

bogman_bass

Just go our silage results back

Dm 20.8
DMD 63.6
ME 9
Crude Protein 10

Nothing to be proud of there.

anybody want to compare and contrast?

freedominacup

bogman_bass wrote: »

Just go our silage results back

Dm 20.8
DMD 63.6
ME 9
Crude Protein 10

Nothing to be proud of there.

anybody want to compare and contrast?

Not the year for compare and contrast. Too much luck either good or bad involved in how results panned out. But seeing as you were brave enough to post them maybe they could be used as a basis for a discussion around dealing with them for feeding to say fattening cattle/bulls, dry cows, and milking cows doing say 28 litres. People might get a guide for their own position from the discussion. Just a suggestion.

Timmaay

Great idea there freedom. I only got mine tested afew days ago, 3 pits which are all 1st cut, last week of May (phew, as you say, totally down to luck!!!), it did start pissing rain for the last 20acres however, and I can see that in the extra water in the top foot of silage! The pits do seem decent enough though, I'd be unhappy with anything less than 70 dmd! I decided to get afew of the bales tested also (all 2nd cut), I'm not expecting 1/2 as good results there, I know some of them bales must be close on a ton in weight. I was feeding them to the cows in sept/oct before I opened the pit, and the yields certainly were hit then, but have picked back up now that the cows are on the pit silage full time.

Milk proteins are back a good bit also now (as low as 3.13% over the weekend), protein content of our pit silage has tended to be low over the past few years, so if the results show thats a problem I'll look into a higher protein nut for the cows. I use no other forage crops, so it's vital that I get the silage right!

bbam

I'll show and tell... Even if its as I suspected, poor feeding !!

Looks like it preserved well but was less than optimum grass to preserve.
We would usually have cut at 10/11 weeks but with weather and contractor backlog it was 13/14 weeks and not wilted, again due to impending rain when it was cut.. We need to focus in future and get it wrapped up by 10 weeks going forward, otherwise were essentially wasting our time saving it at all..

For feeding weanlings to 0.6kg/day growth, the lab recommended 2.4kg of 18% ration. €€€'s.

Bean_Flicker

bbam wrote: »

I'll show and tell... Even if its as I suspected, poor feeding !!

Looks like it preserved well but was less than optimum grass to preserve.
We would usually have cut at 10/11 weeks but with weather and contractor backlog it was 13/14 weeks and not wilted, again due to impending rain when it was cut.. We need to focus in future and get it wrapped up by 10 weeks going forward, otherwise were essentially wasting our time saving it at all..

For feeding weanlings to 0.6kg/day growth, the lab recommended 2.4kg of 18% ration. €€/8702/silage.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Hi bbam
Can I just ask who the test for you ? What's involved and how much is it a test?
As I would like to get first and second cut silage tested.

Thanks

TUBBY

Also, how long does it take to get results back after you send sample.

Is there particular way to sample

bbam

Oldcastle Labs did the test.
€45 inc vat.

I opened two bales at random and sliced down with silage knife. Full of a plastic carrier bag mixed from both bales. Expell all air and bring to the lab.
They said ten days but it was e-mailed to me in six.

Bean_Flicker

bbam wrote: »

Oldcastle Labs did the test.
€45 inc vat.

I opened two bales at random and sliced down with silage knife. Full of a plastic carrier bag mixed from both bales. Expell all air and bring to the lab.
They said ten days but it was e-mailed to me in six.

Can you post the samples?

Will any plastic sealing bag do for the samples ?
Is it 45 per sample ?

Thanks again bbam

whelan1

out of interest what did you think of the silage before you sent the samples away, are animals doing ok on it?

bogman_bass

bbam wrote: »

For feeding weanlings to 0.6kg/day growth, the lab recommended 2.4kg of 18% ration. €€€'s.

Looks like we're in the same boat.

with prices the way they are does it pay to achive 0.6 kg of growth over the winter? I wonder would 0.2kg/day at lower feeding rates pay better in the long run?

would 63% DMD silage provide a maintanince diet on its own?

TUBBY

bogman_bass wrote: »

Looks like we're in the same boat.

with prices the way they are does it pay to achive 0.6 kg of growth over the winter? I wonder would 0.2kg/day at lower feeding rates pay better in the long run?

would 63% DMD silage provide a maintanince diet on its own?

No, don't think you would keep weanlins up on just that. I got A decent nut AT 310 blown in. feeding 2kg a day. Would expect to gain the 0.5kg or so and for it to pay with summer grazers. Cattle have to be big money come april.loads of cattle being off loaded round here cause lack of silage. Nut is 14% with maize barley wheat and rape.

stanflt

76dmd
12.2me
25.5dm
4.3ph
21.4%protein
12% ammonia n

will scan and post it tomorrow

bogman_bass

on a normal year that would be impressive.

this year its just showing off!

bob charles

in a year like this for most guys the saying "two much bad stuff is better than half enough good stuff" holds:D. my old chestnut that I usually promote for small stock of compensatory growth will definitely ring through. For guys with bad silage could yous consider letting the small stock out on land. Anyone with half dry land even in this wet weather would carry a light weanling (250kgs ish) to 2 acres no bother if left in small bunches. They definitely thrive better "licking" the land than on bad silage and they will survive. leave the cows to eat this choice fodder even if they have to stay indoors for longer in the spring

freedominacup

bogman_bass wrote: »

Looks like we're in the same boat.

with prices the way they are does it pay to achive 0.6 kg of growth over the winter? I wonder would 0.2kg/day at lower feeding rates pay better in the long run?

would 63% DMD silage provide a maintanince diet on its own?

.6kg per day is maintenance for a weanling. They are growing animals they need this growth rate simply to remain healthy. The ME figure is more important than the DMD figure. At 8.7 ME and 25% DM at that DMD they would need to eat 22kgs silage per head to get that growth rate.

poor farmer

dry matter 21%
Ph 3.9
Ammonia 7.0
protein 9.0%
me 10.9
Dmd 72

Has anyone any explanation as to the low protein

freedominacup

stanflt wrote: »

76dmd
12.2me
25.5dm
4.3ph
21.4%protein
12% ammonia n

will scan and post it tomorrow

That's some protein figure but the ammonia N is a bit high. Were the nitrates a bit high at cutting.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

. For guys with bad silage could yous consider letting the small stock out on land. Anyone with half dry land even in this wet weather would carry a light weanling (250kgs ish) to 2 acres no bother if left in small bunches. They definitely thrive better "licking" the land than on bad silage and they will survive. leave the cows to eat this choice fodder even if they have to stay indoors for longer in the spring

I wouldn't agree at all Bob. If they've been in a while grass will have been recovering to some degree. Keep them in until mid Feb, Invest in a few fence reels and pigtail stakes, make sure you can get water to each division then leave them out when/if you get a few fine days together and control the area they are getting each day. Be prepared to re-house them if it gets bad and maybe out by day only for a while. Dry ground first then silage area esp if it's on the main block then through to your wettest ground after April 1st. Leaving them out now means no early grass and a much longer winter.

bob charles

poor farmer wrote: »

dry matter 21%
Ph 3.9
Ammonia 7.0
protein 9.0%
me 10.9
Dmd 72

Has anyone any explanation as to the low protein

have a look at your sulphur levels in the soil and plants. Sulphur is a building block for protein and needed for chlorophyll. cut your total N fert rate in half and apply ASN instead and be in for a shock

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

have a look at your sulphur levels in the soil. Sulphur is a building block for protein and need for chlorophyll. cut your total N fert rate in half and apply ASN instead and be in for a shock

Just for the silage area or throughout the year?

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

I wouldn't agree at all Bob. If they've been in a while grass will have been recovering to some degree. Keep them in until mid Feb, Invest in a few fence reels and pigtail stakes, make sure you can get water to each division then leave them out when/if you get a few fine days together and control the area they are getting each day. Be prepared to re-house them if it gets bad and maybe out by day only for a while. Dry ground first then silage area esp if it's on the main block then through to your wettest ground after April 1st. Leaving them out now means no early grass and a much longer winter.

Janurary grass is never eating is something I was always told, give me a bare sward the 1st of Feb before applying 3k gallons of finishing slurry and grass will magically appear. over wintered yellow grass isnt worth a crap. if you were coming at this from a dairy prospective advice would be totally different. Frankly I would prefer my weanlings/runners to be getting some decent nutrition all winter long instead of ****e for the first 3 months and then good grass. This is no normal winter and normal recommended advice will have to be taking with a pinch of salt. Its survival mode around my parts for allot of farmers. "Let the last hour be the longest" would be my view.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

Just for the silage area or throughout the year?

especially silage and crops, dont notice much in the grassland as we a rotating with crops so there would be a good carry over of S from cropping. but what works for silage has to work for grass. Regarding cutting your N rate in half for silage, yes for grazing maybe cut N to 75% if analysis show up low S in the plants

Remember the highest protein is at the very tip of the grass, hence the term - the best grass for grazing grows overnight. tight grazers (over stockers) have to have some reason to say their systems is best, which I am one off:D.

foxfield21

Expected results to be alot worse as delayed by 3/4 weeks and was only cut 4 hours before baling. Normally like to gove it a day to wilt but no chance this year!
Feeding to mixture of suckler cows, dry cows and yearlings...

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Janurary grass is never eating is something I was always told, give me a bare sward the 1st of Feb before applying 3k gallons of finishing slurry and grass will magically appear. over wintered yellow grass isnt worth a crap. if you were coming at this from a dairy prospective advice would be totally different. Frankly I would prefer my weanlings/runners to be getting some decent nutrition all winter long instead of ****e for the first 3 months and then good grass. This is no normal winter and normal recommended advice will have to be taking with a pinch of salt. Its survival mode around my parts for allot of farmers. "Let the last hour be the longest" would be my view.

I'm not talking about yellow over wintered stuff. We're talking about different places no doubt. I believe you're in the midlands and that's a different ballgame to my one. But if your land was reasonably well grazed in the backend then what I was suggesting would have a reasonable chance of working. By leaving them out you are ensuring there will be no early grass at all. The DMD and ME figures for winter grass are nothing to get excited about either. No sun=no sugars=no energy and what little there is is not that digestible.

stanflt

freedominacup wrote: »

That's some protein figure but the ammonia N is a bit high. Were the nitrates a bit high at cutting.

yeah a little high- but there was only 2days with decent forecast for the next few weeks

Timmaay

bob charles wrote: »

have a look at your sulphur levels in the soil and plants. Sulphur is a building block for protein and needed for chlorophyll. cut your total N fert rate in half and apply ASN instead and be in for a shock

Hmm yep I was just reading up about the importance of sulphur to protein levels in grass today, the protein content in our silage always is low so I'll have to look into that next year.

freedominacup

stanflt wrote: »

yeah a little high- but there was only 2days with decent forecast for the next few weeks

Snap. 15&16/5 then nothing for at least 2 weeks not even the bank holiday weekend which was always a lock when I was young and foolish.

stop thelights

DM 19.6
pH 4.3
Ammonia N 4.8
ASH 7.6
NDF 55.8
DMD 63.9
ME 9.1
Crude Protein 10.3

How does this compare to stanfits? not in that one is silage and ones dung :pac::pac: but In money terms. How much is this poor silage costing us in our milkers or is that a hard one to work out?

Currently feeding a 26%p ration to the cows so how much would a Crude protein silage result of 20 compare to 10.3 in ration savings. 50/50 maize silage diet.

bbam

whelan1 wrote: »

out of interest what did you think of the silage before you sent the samples away, are animals doing ok on it?

Well, from the smell, colour and texture I was happy it was preserved but I knew from its age at cutting that it wouldn't be a premium product..
Cattle have been doing well enough but they are on a 19% ration @ 1kg a day, TBH the smaller anumals will be increased to 2kg a day and we'll review in another month how things are going on..

bogman_bass wrote: »

Looks like we're in the same boat.

with prices the way they are does it pay to achive 0.6 kg of growth over the winter? I wonder would 0.2kg/day at lower feeding rates pay better in the long run?

would 63% DMD silage provide a maintanince diet on its own?

I know prices aren't great and meal feeding is expensive but not getting the growth rate over the next 150 days is far too long, I doubt compensatory growth would compensate in the spring.. Then your left with poorer animals in a tough market and thats not a nice position either..

mahoney_j

dmd 77.8
dm 53.7
me 12.1
crude protein 15.9
Cut 23 of may after 8 and a bit weeks growth cut tedded out twice wilted for 2 days and then into the pit.Feeding it to this years fr heifers,blue heifers and fr bulls at the moment with 2 kg of a 18% nut and their in cruise control.Mixing i kg of wheaten straw through it to dry cows.Always try and get silage quality as good as possible as the better it is the less ammount stock need to eat and thrive is notably better.Another benefit in a year like this is that conc usage can be cut to the minimum

freedominacup

mahoney_j wrote: »

dmd 77.8
dm 53.7
me 12.1
crude protein 15.9
Cut 23 of may after 8 and a bit weeks growth cut tedded out twice wilted for 2 days and then into the pit.Feeding it to this years fr heifers,blue heifers and fr bulls at the moment with 2 kg of a 18% nut and their in cruise control.Mixing i kg of wheaten straw through it to dry cows.Always try and get silage quality as good as possible as the better it is the less ammount stock need to eat and thrive is notably better.Another benefit in a year like this is that conc usage can be cut to the minimum

And the winner is............

funny man

DM 27.6
PH 4.1
AM 5
CP 14.7
ME 11.8
DMD 76

Excellent stuff but just not enough of it, mahoney_j how are you able to manage the pit face, going on your results it must be going off or your feeding alot of stock.

mahoney_j

Tis tricky all right i only strip the plastic every 2 days and no more,Also have a shear grab which is a big help.lab warned that carefull pit face management was needed to stop it from heating.Just dried off cows yesterday and they were indoors on it for last 2 weeks with 3 kg of a 18% maize nut and milking just over 13 litres was tempted to milk on for a bit but after the year weve had i just said enough was enough and tubed the lot of them,Needless to say they aint getting any of that silage now.Theyre only getting wheaten straw ad lib and tis some culture shock to them but needs must ,I find this works well every year and they are well dried up after 4 or 5 days after this i will gradually build them back up onto silage and cut the straw back to a kg per head

Muckit

Were mineral levels recorded on any results ye got back?

Can anyone recommend a good lab where I could get silage tested? Can you post samples to most of these places? I've often wondered about secondary fermentation, how is this controlled when sending in samples?

funny man

you can get a full mineral analysis done but it will cost ya, I send mine to Hillsborough, you can post them in a freezer bag with all the air pushed out of them and sealed, put in a note with your name and address, type of stock to feed, additive, cut date, cut number, pop it into a large envelope or alternativly you could enquire where you buy your meal, these guys are full time testing meal and usually provide this service.

bbam

funny man wrote: »

you can get a full mineral analysis done but it will cost ya, I send mine to Hillsborough, you can post them in a freezer bag with all the air pushed out of them and sealed, put in a note with your name and address, type of stock to feed, additive, cut date, cut number, pop it into a large envelope or alternativly you could enquire where you buy your meal, these guys are full time testing meal and usually provide this service.

Can I ask how much Hillsborough costs. Oldcastle charged me €45, but they outsource the testing, presumably to Hillsborough.

funny man

90% sure it's €40, but i'll confirm. i always send them with my meal supplier (which varies) and they never charge me.

Tommyj1

Got silage sample results back today.
Dry matter 25.8%
Ph 4.2
Ammonia 9.0
Protein 12.1%
ME 10.9
DMD 75

It was round baled the second week of June.
This is the first year I got it tested and I do not know much about it. Cattle seem to be doing well on it. What do ye think of the results?

mahoney_j

Tommyj1 wrote: »

Got silage sample results back today.
Dry matter 25.8%
Ph 4.2
Ammonia 9.0
Protein 12.1%
ME 10.9
DMD 75

It was round baled the second week of June.
This is the first year I got it tested and I do not know much about it. Cattle seem to be doing well on it. What do ye think of the results?

Thats right good stuff proably in the top5% of what was tested this year

Timmaay

Got mine back today.

Bales were roughly as I expected:

4.6 pH (too high)
19% dm (way too wet)
11.8% p
68% dmd

Pit silage was as follows, good dmd but dm isnt great:

4.2 pH
21.4 dm (much lower than I'd hoped)
12.5% p (higher than previous years!)
73% dmd

Any suggestions on the low DM figures? Is that just down to the moisture content, or are we leaving the grass go too strong before we cut it etc?

st1979

Timmaay wrote: »

Got mine back today.

Bales were roughly as I expected:

4.6 pH (too high)
19% dm (way too wet)
11.8% p
68% dmd

Pit silage was as follows, good dmd but dm isnt great:

4.2 pH
21.4 dm (much lower than I'd hoped)
12.5% p (higher than previous years!)
73% dmd

Any suggestions on the low DM figures? Is that just down to the moisture content, or are we leaving the grass go too strong before we cut it etc?

Dm is down to weather and wilt. strong grass should dry out quicker than young leafy stuff. if u could give it a bit longer in the sun it would help.

RobinBanks

Hi All,

I got my silage results back. Round bale silage cut on the 7th of June. DM seems very high but not sure if this is good or bad. Also what would cause the pH to be as high as it is? In general I think the quality is ok??



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funny man

Good stuff Robin. PH is not high between 4 and 5 is the norm. Crude Protein is low (above average for 2012) you would need to balance this for young stock, lactating animals and pregnant animals in the last 3-4 weeks before calving.

iverjohnston

Bloody hell lads, those are good enough results in a normal year! Was going to put up my results, but this is developing into a willy measuring contest, so I'll pass!

funny man

iverjohnston wrote: »

Bloody hell lads, those are good enough results in a normal year! Was going to put up my results, but this is developing into a willy measuring contest, so I'll pass!

AH iver slap it out there till we get the tape! Not too many worried about the tests now, more concerned about not running out.

iverjohnston

OK Funny Man, here they are, perhaps not so funny.......................


Dry matter 28.8
Ph 4.3
Ammonia 6.6
Ash 9
NDF 62.6
DMD 52
ME 7.1
Crude Protein 8.5

You don't need too long a tape for those results:(

bob charles

iverjohnston wrote: »

OK Funny Man, here they are, perhaps not so funny.......................


Dry matter 28.8
Ph 4.3
Ammonia 6.6
Ash 9
NDF 62.6
DMD 52
ME 7.1
Crude Protein 8.5

You don't need too long a tape for those results:(

there are many around here that would be glad to have it at the moment

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

there are many around here that would be glad to have it at the moment

I certainly am. We have weanlings and dry cows on that sort of product at the mo'. It's a long way from perfect but if the bellies are full there's other steps you can take to make up defecits in quality. Struggling to fill cattle must be a nightmare.

iverjohnston

If you're feeding this stuff to dry cows, etc, you are saving the little bit of good dry feeding straw in the country! Better than looking at the back wall of the pit. All we can do, is try and make better stuff this year.:rolleyes:

Timmaay

Hmm yeh certainly not all good stuff here, I've one field of bales that were cut from one of the wet grazing paddocks that had got too strong, cover was well north of 2500kg/dm by the time we got in to cut it. Drycows were really struggling to get through it, we were outwintering them, bales in a round feeder and we had to lift the round feeder and move it every few days as they just weren't eating it! Have stopped feeding it now, bar a really late spring it will all go to waste 2bh, zero point in me trying to sell it.

Lesson learnt for next year is keep on top of my paddock management, in particular the wet paddocks and keep them grazed out in the dry weather when I'm able to get in on them!

just do it

iverjohnston wrote: »

OK Funny Man, here they are, perhaps not so funny.......................


Dry matter 28.8
Ph 4.3
Ammonia 6.6
Ash 9
NDF 62.6
DMD 52
ME 7.1
Crude Protein 8.5

You don't need too long a tape for those results:(

Thanks iver, it takes liathroidí to put up poor results. I'm getting mine tested just to see what it's like. Dry cows on silage and straw starting to go back in condition so going to introduce 1kg nuts. Makes me think my silage isn't as good as I thought :rolleyes: