Awards

spiralism

We're closing in on the end of the season (i know )and the bigger picture is starting to come into focus. Seeing as there were threads earlier on in the year on who deserved what imo another one is in order.

Anyways:

MVP: Peyton Manning (This is now without question, hes gone from trailing to clear leader imo). Ryan, while 10-1, has had his performances nosedive in the past few weeks.
Offensive Player of the Year: Adrian Peterson
Defensive Player of the Year: Von Miller. Not a homer pick either, his stats match up with Watts (half a sack less though four more forced fumbles) and he's a 4-3 OLB as opposed to a Lineman. His sacks per pass rush attempt far outstrip Aldon Smiths and Watt's, who both get more opportunities to get to the QB as linemen. Also leads the league in tackles for a loss - absolute monster of a run defender. (his average yardage allowed on a tackle is a one yard loss)
Offensive Rookie of the Year: RG3. Focus has shifted back towards him after two astronomical performances. Luck wins the games, RG3 has the (extremely) pretty stats and isnt too far behind. Could go either way yet
Defensive Rookie of the Year: Chandler Jones
Comeback Player of the Year: Manning/Peterson. Toss up.

Chucky the tree

A 4-3 OLB stats would be far better than a 3-4 DE, that to me is what makes Watts year so amazing.

matthew8

MVP: Tom Brady for me. It's an absolute dead heat between him and Manning. I think Manning has been a bit more clutch, but Brady has only thrown 3 interceptions, while Manning has 8. RG3 would be my third choice.
Offensive Player of the Year: Adrian Peterson
Defensive Player of the Year: Von Miller. It's funny how a 4-3 OLB and 3-4 DE are 2 of the 3 putting up huge sack numbers.
Offensive Rookie of the Year: RG3. I don't think it's even close, despite the records. RG3 can't do anything about his defense being beaten by Victor Cruz over the top with a minute left, or other such losses.
Defensive Rookie of the Year: Chandler Jones. Not so much spoilt for choice as last year.
Comeback Player of the Year: Manning.

mikemac1

MVP: Peyton Manning
Offensive Player of the Year: AJ Green, I think I'll be alone on this vote
Defensive Player of the Year: Tillman from the Bears
Offensive Rookie of the Year: Doug Martin, I love this player!!
Defensive Rookie of the Year: Casey Hayward, 2nd round defensive back for the Packers.
Comeback Player of the Year: Adrian Peterson

Arawn

Can AR and Clay Matthews get an award for carrying 50+ players by themselves??
MVP: Manning. What he has done with the colts Broncos is impressive.
Offensive:Adrian Peterson
Defensive: Clay Matthews, I love the man and without him GB may as well put up scarecrows on the field
Rook: Luck purely by he's done a **** ton better than anyone expected
rook D. Eh no idea here, ill come back to it

Comeback: has to be peyton

eagle eye

spiralism wrote: »

MVP: Peyton Manning (This is now without question, hes gone from trailing to clear leader imo). Ryan, while 10-1, has had his performances nosedive in the past few weeks.

Peyton Manning 3260 yards 67.7% comp. rate 26 tds 8 int 104.8 QB rating

Tom Brady 3299 yards 65.1% comp rate 24 tds 3 int 105 QB rating

How do you say its without question? Brady is ahead of him in three of the crucial categories and the differential one is huge. I think Brady is the leader in the race for MVP right now.

spiralism

eagle eye wrote: »

Peyton Manning 3260 yards 67.7% comp. rate 26 tds 8 int 104.8 QB rating

Tom Brady 3299 yards 65.1% comp rate 24 tds 3 int 105 QB rating

How do you say its without question? Brady is ahead of him in three of the crucial categories and the differential one is huge. I think Brady is the leader in the race for MVP right now.

Most Valuable after all. What he's done for us after a season out is remarkable, like he never left. He's got a 24 point comeback on Monday night in a crucial match, has us at our best record at this point since 2005 and has us an elite force for the first time in seven years at least. Two decimal points in a QBR is much of a muchness to be honest. As is 39 passing yards. Manning is ahead on YPA which you left out.

eagle eye

spiralism wrote: »

Most Valuable after all. What he's done for us after a season out is remarkable, like he never left. He's got a 24 point comeback on Monday night in a crucial match, has us at our best record at this point since 2005 and has us an elite force for the first time in seven years at least. Two decimal points in a QBR is much of a muchness to be honest. As is 39 passing yards. Manning is ahead on YPA which you left out.

You are talking about the MVP of your team not the league.

YPA is not important unless there is a huge gap.

The biggest difference is that Tom Brady on average throws 8 touchdowns for every 1 interception, Manning throws 3 to 1. Brady is currently on a five game streak without and int where he has thrown 14 tds and has a QBR of 117.8.

For me he has taken the lead in the MVP race at this time. It may swing back in Manning's favour or Brady could go on and seal it now.

UnitedIrishman

MVP: Tom Brady
Offensive Player of the Year: Drew Brees - why? Because any other side that faced the sanctions (and lack of defensive playmakers) they did wouldn't be within an asses roar of making the playoffs if they didn't have someone like him. More TD's than anyone else (fair enough, less passer rating and yards) and functioning without Sean Payton on the sideline calling the plays - gets my vote.
Defensive Player of the Year: JJ Watt
Offensive Rookie of the Year: Andrew Luck - purely on the fact he's brought his team to the playoffs (pretty much) with largely the same side that was shocking last year. RGIII a very close second. Honorable mention to Russell Wilson who I was rooting for after watching the Gruden camps and has done brilliantly at Seattle.
Defensive Rookie of the Year: Chandler Jones. Honorable mention to Casey Hayward, who has been savage for us this year at CB.
Comeback Player of the Year: Adrian Peterson. Honorable mention to Josh Freeman.

Pudsy33

MVP: Peyton Manning. It's a toss up between him and Brady but what he has done to the Broncos this year, after a year out and questions about his arm, is miraculous.

Offensive Player of the Year: Drew Brees, for almost single handedly dragging the Saints to a playoff shot.

Defensive Player of the Year: JJ Watt

Offensive Rookie of the Year: RG3. For being absolutely box office entertainment every time he is on the field.

Defensive Rookie of the Year: Bobby Wagner. Honestly haven't seen enough of Chandler Jones to comment, but this man is impressive.

Comeback Player of the Year: Adrian Peterson. Another miraculous recovery.

A_Sober_Paddy

eagle eye wrote: »

Peyton Manning 3260 yards 67.7% comp. rate 26 tds 8 int 104.8 QB rating

Tom Brady 3299 yards 65.1% comp rate 24 tds 3 int 105 QB rating

How do you say its without question? Brady is ahead of him in three of the crucial categories and the differential one is huge. I think Brady is the leader in the race for MVP right now.

Forgot to include wins and 4th qtr comebacks
Wins 8 a piece atm
4th Qtr Comebacks: Brady has 0 while Manning has 2

Molly

MVP: Manning
Offensive: Adrian Peterson
Defensive: JJ Watt
Offensive Rookie: Doug Martin
Defensive Rookie: Lavonte David

Amirani

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Forgot to include wins and 4th qtr comebacks
Wins 8 a piece atm
4th Qtr Comebacks: Brady has 0 while Manning has 2

I don't think these are relevant stats in an MVP vote. They say more about the respective teams than purely the players themselves.

I doubt Brady had many 4 quarter comebacks in the Pats undefeated season.

CJC86

MVP: Tom Brady/Peyton Manning - toss up
Offensive Player of the Year: Peyton Manning/Tom Brady - because that's how this works
Defensive Player of the Year: JJ Watt - dude's a beast
Offensive Rookie of the Year: RG3 - but it could be a close 3-way vote, since both Luck and Martin have been great too
Defensive Rookie of the Year: Chandler Jones - Possibly a homer pick, but he's played like a veteran. Might fall in the voting after his injury.
Comeback Player of the Year: Adrian Peterson - I honestly can't believe the year he's having after an ACL/MCL tear, it's ridiculous. Could go to Manning, but I think he'll get one of the other awards and AP gets this one.

themont85

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Forgot to include wins and 4th qtr comebacks
Wins 8 a piece atm
4th Qtr Comebacks: Brady has 0 while Manning has 2

That stat was only important when it was Brady and not Manning doing it./eagleeye

matthew8

Infact, forget about Chandler Jones, I'd give Kuechly DROTY. 4th in the league with 105 tackles, 2nd with 3 fumble recoveries, and an interception.

BizzyC

MVP: Tom Brady
Offensive Player of the Year: Adrian Peterson
Defensive Player of the Year: JJ Watt
Offensive Rookie of the Year: Andrew Luck
Defensive Rookie of the Year: Chandler Jones
Comeback Player of the Year: Peyton Manning

Hazys

Pudsy33 wrote: »

MVP: Peyton Manning. It's a toss up between him and Brady but what he has done to the Broncos this year, after a year out and questions about his arm, is miraculous.

Why do people use "Look at what Manning has done for the Broncos this year?" as an argument.

They were a playoff team last year lead by a now back up QB now they have a better QB and they are only slightly better in hindsight. They are currently ranked 4th in the AFC, they finished 7th last year...a 3 position shift miracle.


All other points about his health are completely irrelevant to the MVP discussion. It's MVP for your play on the field this season, not look at what this guy had to overcome in previous years of his life to play in the NFL...if that was the case somebody like Michael Oher would be in the running every year.

matthew8

Hazys wrote: »

Why do people use "Look at what Manning has done for the Broncos this year?" as an argument.

They were a playoff team last year lead by a now back up QB now they have a better QB and they are only slightly better in hindsight. They are currently ranked 4th in the AFC, they finished 7th last year...a 3 position shift miracle.

You know well and good that's a load of crap. It was a miracle that the Broncos won so many games last year. He's matched last year's win total with 5 weeks to spare. They are a million times better this year. "Only slightly better"? That's ridiculous.

BizzyC

I think Brady's int tally along with the fact that he's running the highest scoring team in the league gets him the top spot.
There's an 89 point gap between Patriots and Broncos.

That differential is the equivilent to the Broncos (3rd overall) and the Colts (21st overall)

As it stands, the Patriots are scoring at a slightly higher rate than they did in 2007 when they set the single season scoring record with 37 points a game vs. 36.8

Hazys

matthew8 wrote: »

You know well and good that's a load of crap. It was a miracle that the Broncos won so many games last year. He's matched last year's win total with 5 weeks to spare. They are a million times better this year. "Only slightly better"? That's ridiculous.

A millions times better? ffs

The Broncos team is very similar to the Broncos team of last year, very few off season changes, only change was at QB. The Broncos made the playoffs last year, its not like Manning turned a bunch of hopeless losers with a 2-14 record last year into a playoff team, see Indianapolis Colts...that's closer to a miracle.

If turning a playoff team into a better playoff team constitutes a millions times better, then my calculator broke trying to figure out how many times better the Colts are this year.

Andrew Luck has 3.5X as many wins as last year with 5 games to spare...that means Andrew Luck has made the Colts 3,500,000 times better in comparison to the 1,000,000 times better Manning has made the Bronco's...Luck for MVP

Pudsy33

It's not only about whether they're a playoff team or not, they are playing totally different. They are outscoring people even if the defence has a bad day. He has made a huge difference to the team. Anyway it's all subjective.

You could make a fair case for Luck MVP :P

Hazys

Hazys wrote: »

A millions times better? ffs

The Broncos team is very similar to the Broncos team of last year, very few off season changes, only change was at QB. The Broncos made the playoffs last year, its not like Manning turned a bunch of hopeless losers with a 2-14 record last year into a playoff team, see Indianapolis Colts...that's closer to a miracle.

If turning a playoff team into a better playoff team constitutes a millions times better, then my calculator broke trying to figure out how many times better the Colts are this year.

Andrew Luck has 3.5X as many wins as last year with 5 games to spare...that means Andrew Luck has made the Colts 3,500,000 times better in comparison to the 1,000,000 times better Manning has made the Bronco's...Luck for MVP

to be fair im not a tebow fan but hes a lot better than curtis "oh crap i have the ball what do i do" painter

matthew8

Hazys wrote: »

A millions times better? ffs

The Broncos team is very similar to the Broncos team of last year, very few off season changes, only change was at QB. The Broncos made the playoffs last year, its not like Manning turned a bunch of hopeless losers with a 2-14 record last year into a playoff team, see Indianapolis Colts...that's closer to a miracle.

If turning a playoff team into a better playoff team constitutes a millions times better, then my calculator broke trying to figure out how many times better the Colts are this year.

Andrew Luck has 3.5X as many wins as last year with 5 games to spare...that means Andrew Luck has made the Colts 3,500,000 times better in comparison to the 1,000,000 times better Manning has made the Bronco's...Luck for MVP

Ask yourself this: Patriots vs. this year's Broncos or Patriots against last year's Broncos. Try to tell me with a straight face that you wouldn't fancy your chances far more against last year's team. And fair play for taking "a million times" literally.

Manning has made a huge difference to an offense that was quite frankly ugly last year.

matthew8

matthew8 wrote: »

Ask yourself this: Patriots vs. this year's Broncos or Patriots against last year's Broncos. Try to tell me with a straight face that you wouldn't fancy your chances far more against last year's team. And fair play for taking "a million times" literally.

Manning has made a huge difference to an offense that was quite frankly ugly last year.

of coarse manning made a difference hes one of the greatest qbs to ever play the game if you did a poll at the start of the season and people knew manning would be 100% healthy nobody would vote against them being better.

put manning on most of the teams in the league and they instantly improve but its not a fair comparison put drew brees in a year after a tebow or a painter and you will get a huge improvement as well this does not make him mvp just a lot better than them players

matthew8

I think Brady is the MVP remember. Both teams could not be in any way serious contenders without their QB, but Hazys was suggesting Manning has made little difference to the Broncos, which is a crazy statement.

matthew8

matthew8 wrote: »

I think Brady is the MVP remember. Both teams could not be in any way serious contenders without their QB, but Hazys was suggesting Manning has made little difference to the Broncos, which is a crazy statement.

ok my bad misunderstood the gist of the conversation

Edit: for the record i think its jj watt

Hulk Hands

Stats wise, Brady is having a better year. That's why to me he's nailed on for offensive player of the year. However look at the difference Manning has made to the Broncos. They have gone from a stagnant offence to one of the most potent in the league. There is also the storyline angle about Peytons comeback and new team etc. That's shouldn't be a factor, but it is when it comes to this award, and will be a big one this time around. So Manning wins the MVP for me.

The unlucky one to lose out is AP. I'm just delighted that people can finally realise how awesome he is. Is he running better than ever? No he's not, he was better last season imo and has showed signs of the injury this year. The difference is that he's playing behind an average OL this year rather than a terrible one. It's frightening to think of the numbers he shouldve put up in the last 4 year's.

spiralism

BizzyC wrote: »

I think Brady's int tally along with the fact that he's running the highest scoring team in the league gets him the top spot.
There's an 89 point gap between Patriots and Broncos.

That differential is the equivilent to the Broncos (3rd overall) and the Colts (21st overall)

As it stands, the Patriots are scoring at a slightly higher rate than they did in 2007 when they set the single season scoring record with 37 points a game vs. 36.8

There's a .5 game gap between the pats and broncos. I don't care if they score more points than us by running up the scores in blowouts - i think we've a good chance if they've to come to Denver in the playoffs. This defence has come on in leaps and bounds since the bye too.

This pats offence is not as good as the 07 version, stats aside. This team has ran up massive leads in a few games but the 07 pats thrashed everybody. They weren't scoring 45 against the likes of St. Louis and the Jets, they routinely ran into the 30s and 40s against the NFL's elite. This years slate is a piece of cake compared to 2007. Fwiw the Houston and SF games will rein those stats back in somewhat imo.

spiralism

Hazys wrote: »

Why do people use "Look at what Manning has done for the Broncos this year?" as an argument.

They were a playoff team last year lead by a now back up QB now they have a better QB and they are only slightly better in hindsight. They are currently ranked 4th in the AFC, they finished 7th last year...a 3 position shift miracle.


All other points about his health are completely irrelevant to the MVP discussion. It's MVP for your play on the field this season, not look at what this guy had to overcome in previous years of his life to play in the NFL...if that was the case somebody like Michael Oher would be in the running every year.

Well for the first time in many years we're elite again. That's what he's done. Arguably we havent been in that bracket since the Elway days, maybe the mid 2000s if you count the plummer days which is here or there. Last year we were the underdog that shocked everyone and Tebow pulled numerous games out of his arse. We're at 8 wins already, matching last years total. If we win next weekend, its likely 12-4 we're looking at, 13-3 if we pull it off in Baltimore, which would be the second best record in team history. Is that just slightly better than last year's 8-8?

MVP takes into account more than just stats, or that's what i was told when i put Mannings far superior stats next to Matt Ryans about 6 weeks ago. Now when the bigger picture comes into it and his almost identical statline is next to Brady's, it's Brady deserving it for that reason...what?

What's Brady done out of the ordinary this year, with all due respect? Same as ever, he's not turned it over (not the first year with low INT numbers...), he's got the usual **** hot offence and system he's been with for years and has performed to his usual HOF level.

Manning came in with everybody doubting his ability, off four neck surgeries, had to learn his whole basics back from scratch, then he moved to a new team with new players and new coaches and learn a new offence. He started 2-3, the heat is on and what does he do only march into San Diego, who had for the past 6 years owned the Broncos, and turned the division race on its head in a second half of football. Now he's won the following five and has us at our best record at this point in 7 years. This is what stands out in an MVP debate along with record/stats - both of which are dead heat.

CJC86

spiralism wrote: »

What's Brady done out of the ordinary this year, with all due respect? Same as ever, he's not turned it over (not the first year with low INT numbers...), he's got the usual **** hot offence and system he's been with for years and has performed to his usual HOF

I can't argue with most of your post, Manning's been great this year. I take real issue with this part though. Brady's having an outstanding season, and it's being overlooked because everyone expects him to. That's no reason to not consider him for the MVP, seeing as it never was for Manning with the Colts.

Btw, to put into context how ridiculously good it is to have 3 INTs at this point of the season, consider that Manning threw 3 in one bad quarter. Brady's avoided poor play all year, consistently leading scoring drives without turning the ball over.

SantryRed

I can't believe so many people think Luck is the Offensive Rookie of the YEar. I don't even think it's close with him and RG3. RG3 has been absolutely sensational.

davyjose

SantryRed wrote: »

I can't believe so many people think Luck is the Offensive Rookie of the YEar. I don't even think it's close with him and RG3. RG3 has been absolutely sensational.

I think part of the reason is because Luck has clawed wins for Indy in a style reminiscent of Elway or Peyton. And he's doing so on a team that clearly doesn't have the offensive talent. Having said that, I can't see past RG3 either. He's at 3 or 4 performances that have been possibly the greatest performances from a rookie QB.

As for the MVP awarded, if someone can convince me that Manning has the same kind of talent around him asBrady, then I'll agree Brady is MVP. What Manning does -- making average WRs look elite -- defines what the MVP award stands for, that's why he's won it so often? Besides, if we go by Stats, then neither of them win -- Rodgers is MVP.

MVP: jj watt (think im on my own here but i think what hes doing as a 3-4 lineman is insane)

Offensive Player of the Year: peyton manning
Defensive Player of the Year: jj watt


Offensive rookie of the year: RG3. hes had better weapons that luck and i think luck will be better long term but rg3 has been crazy this year

Defensive Rookie of the Year: luke kuechley (not a lot flashy but he looks like one of the best olbs in the league already

Comeback Player of the Year: Peterson (without him vikings are one of the worst teams in the league with him there a playoff contender i think broncos are still decent without peyton)

spiralism

spiralism wrote: »

Defensive Player of the Year: Von Miller. Not a homer pick either, his stats match up with Watts (half a sack less though four more forced fumbles) and he's a 4-3 OLB as opposed to a Lineman. His sacks per pass rush attempt far outstrip Aldon Smiths and Watt's, who both get more opportunities to get to the QB as linemen. Also leads the league in tackles for a loss - absolute monster of a run defender. (his average yardage allowed on a tackle is a one

i dont understand you argument it seems to be that he is doing as good as jj watt stat wise but its easier to pick up these stats in particular stats as a 4-3 olb than as a 3-4 d-lineman

spiralism

Milena Sharp Weekend wrote: »

i dont understand you argument it seems to be that he is doing as good as jj watt stat wise but its easier to pick up these stats in particular stats as a 4-3 olb than as a 3-4 d-lineman

Miller is the most devastating pass rusher at any position in the NFL. There is no one on offense who can consistently match up to him; offensive linemen are not quick enough to counter his acceleration. The 49ers' brilliant outside 'backer, Aldon Smith, has 43 quarterback disruptions this year on 292 pass rushes. Miller has 61 on 297, 41 percent more on nearly the same number of attempts. Watt's base numbers are excellent too (49 quarterback disruptions from 402 rushes).

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/11/26/Week-12/index.html#ixzz2DZS6Wq2X

spiralism

CJC86 wrote: »

I can't argue with most of your post, Manning's been great this year. I take real issue with this part though. Brady's having an outstanding season, and it's being overlooked because everyone expects him to. That's no reason to not consider him for the MVP, seeing as it never was for Manning with the Colts.

Btw, to put into context how ridiculously good it is to have 3 INTs at this point of the season, consider that Manning threw 3 in one bad quarter. Brady's avoided poor play all year, consistently leading scoring drives without turning the ball over.

Didnt throw another for four games after that and it was his second game back. Even then the one he threw in SD four weeks later was because Matt Willis ran the wrong hot route like an idiot. Hence my point in the first post about familiarity.

CJC86

spiralism wrote: »

Didnt throw another for four games after that and it was his second game back. Even then the one he threw in SD four weeks later was because Matt Willis ran the wrong hot route like an idiot. Hence my point in the first post about familiarity.

I wasn't knocking Manning, he looks after the ball very well; I was pointing out that 3 INTs is a crazy stat for this point in the season, especially with a high-scoring offence.

BizzyC

spiralism wrote: »

Well for the first time in many years we're elite again. That's what he's done. Arguably we havent been in that bracket since the Elway days, maybe the mid 2000s if you count the plummer days which is here or there. Last year we were the underdog that shocked everyone and Tebow pulled numerous games out of his arse. We're at 8 wins already, matching last years total. If we win next weekend, its likely 12-4 we're looking at, 13-3 if we pull it off in Baltimore, which would be the second best record in team history. Is that just slightly better than last year's 8-8?

MVP takes into account more than just stats, or that's what i was told when i put Mannings far superior stats next to Matt Ryans about 6 weeks ago. Now when the bigger picture comes into it and his almost identical statline is next to Brady's, it's Brady deserving it for that reason...what?

What's Brady done out of the ordinary this year, with all due respect? Same as ever, he's not turned it over (not the first year with low INT numbers...), he's got the usual **** hot offence and system he's been with for years and has performed to his usual HOF level.

Manning came in with everybody doubting his ability, off four neck surgeries, had to learn his whole basics back from scratch, then he moved to a new team with new players and new coaches and learn a new offence. He started 2-3, the heat is on and what does he do only march into San Diego, who had for the past 6 years owned the Broncos, and turned the division race on its head in a second half of football. Now he's won the following five and has us at our best record at this point in 7 years. This is what stands out in an MVP debate along with record/stats - both of which are dead heat.

Sorry, but Manning's comeback and Brady's consistency doesn't come in to play in an MVP discussion.
All that matters is their performance on the field this season.

They've won the same number of games.
Brady has a higher rating, more yards and fewer ints.
The Broncos Defence has allowed fewer points than the Patriots D putting more pressure on Brady to score high.

mikemac1

Manning vs Brady taking over threads

Some things never change on boards

HigginsJ

MVP: Drew Brees leads the league in TD passes and generally excellent on a struggling team
Offensive Player of the Year: AJ Green has had a stunning year with 9 straight games with a TD (it will prob go to QB but Green deserves recognition)
Defensive Player of the Year: JJ Watt
Offensive Rookie of the Year: RGIII (this one is still up in the air, Luck getting to play-offs could swing it his way)
Defensive Rookie of the Year: Luke Kuechley
Comeback Player of the Year: Adrian Peterson
Special Teams Player of the Year Steve Weatherford has carried over his great form from last year. (Matt Dodge is a distant memory, gone but not forgotten!!)

spiralism

BizzyC wrote: »

Sorry, but Manning's comeback and Brady's consistency doesn't come in to play in an MVP discussion.
All that matters is their performance on the field this season.

They've won the same number of games.
Brady has a higher rating, more yards and fewer ints.
The Broncos Defence has allowed fewer points than the Patriots D putting more pressure on Brady to score high.

Then Rodgers is MVP again. Higher rating, more TDs and weaker defence. Hence why the bigger picture comes into play.

Why is Brady's yardage total even coming into this? he has an astronomical 39 more yards and yards are an overrated stat anyways. Besides, Manning's YPA is higher if you want to be pedantic on this.

BizzyC

YPA actually indicates there that Manning is being asked to throw less often than Brady.
Brady also has a the best 1st down conversion rate in the league.

It's neck and neck between the two, but Manning's injury and the fact that Brady was expected to be good doesn't give it to Manning.

Rodgers is worthy of consideration as well, he has a good rating and a good TD tally, but he's well behind in Yardage and has been sacked 37 times compared to the 15/16 of Brady/Manning.

Right now I think it's a Brady/Manning race, but with a few good weeks Rodgers/Brees/Ryan would definitely be worth strong consideration as well.

Johnny_Fontane

Problem with Denver this year is that when they have come up against the really good teams (Atlanta, Houston and NE), they have lost.

The question is still there in my mind, if you are to call them 'elite', is can they beat the big teams.

We will see. Lets not get out c**ks out just yet.

SantryRed

BizzyC wrote: »

Rodgers is worthy of consideration as well, he has a good rating and a good TD tally, but he's well behind in Yardage and has been sacked 37 times compared to the 15/16 of Brady/Manning.

Have you see that line? I don't think it's his fault!!

spiralism

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Problem with Denver this year is that when they have come up against the really good teams (Atlanta, Houston and NE), they have lost.

The question is still there in my mind, if you are to call them 'elite', is can they beat the big teams.

We will see. Lets not get out c**ks out just yet.

I take issue with that actually. That Atlanta game was a farce. First real game the scab refs made a complete balls of. They awarded Atlanta possession (approximately 50 minutes later) after a fumble where two broncos players landed on top of the ball and one emerged with it. Atlanta then drove for a field goal when we'd been looking good to score. 6 to ten point swing in a 6 point match. Later in the game they called pass interference on 3rd and 7 on Tony Carter when he was nowhere near Roddy White, this extended a drive where they went 20-0 up.

Not only that but all three of those games were in our first five. We've improved drastically since then because obviously it all wasn't going to gel from the word go given all the changes. I'd be confident we at least win one of those if we played them now.

bruschi

spiralism wrote: »

I take issue with that actually. That Atlanta game was a farce. First real game the scab refs made a complete balls of. They awarded Atlanta possession (approximately 50 minutes later) after a fumble where two broncos players landed on top of the ball and one emerged with it. Atlanta then drove for a field goal when we'd been looking good to score. 6 to ten point swing in a 6 point match. Later in the game they called pass interference on 3rd and 7 on Tony Carter when he was nowhere near Roddy White, this extended a drive where they went 20-0 up.

Not only that but all three of those games were in our first five. We've improved drastically since then because obviously it all wasn't going to gel from the word go given all the changes. I'd be confident we at least win one of those if we played them now.

what, like how the Patriots lost to Arizona on a harmless holding call and to the Ravens in one of the turning point games for the refs. By a combined total of 4 points have the Pats lost their 3 games. they too have improved drastically since their losses, and with a team suffering big injury blows. I just still dont get how you think there is no arguments that anyone other than Manning is to be considered.

eagle eye

SantryRed wrote: »

Have you see that line? I don't think it's his fault!!

Its partially his fault because he moves out of the pocket a lot more than the average QB.

Mr. Guappa

davyjose wrote: »

I think part of the reason is because Luck has clawed wins for Indy in a style reminiscent of Elway or Peyton. And he's doing so on a team that clearly doesn't have the offensive talent. Having said that, I can't see past RG3 either. He's at 3 or 4 performances that have been possibly the greatest performances from a rookie QB.

As for the MVP awarded, if someone can convince me that Manning has the same kind of talent around him asBrady, then I'll agree Brady is MVP. What Manning does -- making average WRs look elite -- defines what the MVP award stands for, that's why he's won it so often? Besides, if we go by Stats, then neither of them win -- Rodgers is MVP.

I love this argument, Demariyus Thomas is a 1st round draft pick, Eric Decker looked a decent player with Tebow at QB. And Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were/are elite WRs.

Morrisseeee

Is this a thinly veiled Brady-v-Manning thread ?! :pac:

FWIW I think Brady has it atm, and that's mainly because his offense is more stable, they're like a well oiled machine, one that's been running well for quite a few years.
Compare that to Manning, back after a year out, with a totally new team. They're like a brand new car that's just been tested to see if it's road-worthy.
So............I think if both teams met this weekend in the playoffs, and both brought their A game, I think the Pats would be +7 favourites at home & maybe +3 away.

Note: I'm a Broncos fan

The Q is, how much credit do you give Manning for his comeback & the fact he's in a new team set-up ?!
Conversely, if Brady was with the Broncos this year after a bad neck & a year out, how do ye think he would be performing ??

Dohnny Jepp

eagle eye wrote: »

Its partially his fault because he moves out of the pocket a lot more than the average QB.

The pocket collapses so quickly, If he tried to stay in it for longer, more often, I'd guess his sack total would be even higher.