The Sobering Aspects of Human History.

LivelineDipso

We all think we have it **** here in Ireland now. But I was reading about the Seige of Leningrad by the Nazi's in WW2.

Firstly listen to the orders given by the psychopath from Austria:

"After the defeat of Soviet Russia there can be no interest in the continued existence of this large urban centre. Following the city's encirclement, requests for surrender negotiations shall be denied, since the problem of relocating and feeding the population cannot and should not be solved by us. In this war for our very existence, we can have no interest in maintaining even a part of this very large urban population."

Then you read on and you stumble upon something as human as the story of Tanya Savichev



We really have nothing to complain about. We are a blessed generation(s) in a glorious time compared to the not so distant past.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i dont really care what josef fritzl has to say about ww2

AnonoBoy

Thought this was going to a thread about coffee.

Chuck Stone

Contents of the diary

Zhenya died on Dec. 28th at 12:00 P.M. 1941
Grandma died on Jan. 25th 3:00 P.M. 1942
Leka died on March 5th at 5:00 A.M. 1942
Uncle Vasya died on Apr. 13th at 2:00 after midnight 1942
Uncle Lesha on May 10th at 4:00 P.M. 1942
Mother on May 13th at 7:30 A.M. 1942
Savichevs died.
Everyone died.

Only Tanya is left


"Tanya is now alive, but she doesn't look healthy. A doctor, who visited her recently, says she is very ill. She needs rest, special care, nutrition, better climate and, most of all, tender motherly care." In May 1944, Tanya was sent to a hospital in Shatki, where she died a month later, on July 1, of intestinal tuberculosis.

:'''(

Wompa1

LivelineDipso wrote: »

We all think we have it **** here in Ireland now. But I was reading about the Seige of Leningrad by the Nazi's in WW2.

Firstly listen to the orders given by the psychopath from Austria:



Then you read on and you stumble upon something as human as the story of Tanya Savichev



We really have nothing to complain about. We are a blessed generation(s) in a glorious time compared to the not so distant past.

Especially considering we didn't contribute in a relatively large way to the war effort. We pretty much sat back and let everything unfold. Not to take away from the brave Irish men who fought for the British Armed Forces but our government at the time didn't exactly paint the country in glory.

I don't think Ireland could afford massive loss of life at the time either so it's kind of a catch 22.

Duckworth_Luas

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Firstly listen to the orders given by the psychopath from Austria:

GET TO DA CHOPPA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs_OacEq2Sk

dsmythy

There's plenty of horror around the world right now.

LivelineDipso

Wompa1 wrote: »

Especially considering we didn't contribute in a relatively large way to the war effort. We pretty much sat back and let everything unfold.

Oh give it a rest.

Nations we admire in Ireland such as the Finns were actively involved in this seige.

I am getting tired of this "we did nothing" mantra. Yes we did do something. We prevented the population of Dublin, Dundalk, Waterford and Drogheda for horrors like this.

What were we suppose to do. Join the Allies so our east coast urban areas be reduced to dust and death so people like you can't issue 'tut-tut' platitudes from the distant future.

None of Ireland 4,000 Jews were gassed during WW2 either. Another consideration,

Wompa1

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Oh give it a rest.

Nations we admire in Ireland such as the Finns were actively involved in this seige.

I am getting tired of this "we did nothing" mantra. Yes we did do something. We prevented the population of Dublin, Dudalk, Waterford and Drogeheda for horrors like this.

What were we suppose to do. Join the Allies so our east coast urban areas be reduced to dust and death so people like you can issue platitudes from the distant future.

Maybe less playing politics when it came to English ships along the shores, knowing they weren't going to do anything about German U-boats going through them. Also maybe not have De Valera sign a book of condolences.

As I said, the Irish regiment in the British forces were very brave. Fair play to them, they did the country proud.

Scioch

Some nasty shít gone on over the years in this fcuk up of a civilisation of ours.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/holocaust/5115.shtml Few radio clips from around the time describing the concentration camps when they were liberated. Not the most uplifting stuff ever.

pabloh999

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Oh give it a rest.

Nations we admire in Ireland such as the Finns were actively involved in this seige.

I am getting tired of this "we did nothing" mantra. Yes we did do something. We prevented the population of Dublin, Dundalk, Waterford and Drogheda for horrors like this.

What were we suppose to do. Join the Allies so our east coast urban areas be reduced to dust and death so people like you can't issue 'tut-tut' platitudes from the distant future.

None of Ireland 4,000 Jews were gassed during WW2 either. Another consideration,

What if Ireland had been invaded by the Germans?
Would you admire uk/USA etc if they sat back and did nothing to protect themselves.
You would in your hole.

Celly Smunt

I posted this a while back in another forum,brings to life some of the ground stuff going on in Syria,mostly civilian.(Not too long too watch.)

part 1
Part 2
part 3

LivelineDipso

pabloh999 wrote: »

What if Ireland had been invaded by the Germans?
Would you admire uk/USA etc if they sat back and did nothing to protect themselves.
You would in your hole.

We were not going to be invaded by the Germans. We had more than enough troops and gear and the sucessful guerilla tactical ability to have had them all dead or in concentration camps by Kilkenny. They German's even admitted that without air support an invasion of Ireland would of been a suicide mission. We even had some awesom general back then who correctly predicted the Nazi plans and placed huge artillery and bunkers along the Nore Valley.

We would of slaughtered them and they knew it. The British and Americans were the real danger to the Free State beleive it or not.

Wompa1

LivelineDipso wrote: »

We would of slaughtered them and they knew it. The British and Americans were the real danger to the Free State beleive it or not.

Yeah, I don't believe it.

Fromthetrees

I have nothing to say about this so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaHMG_SvUkw

coolbeans

LivelineDipso wrote: »

We were not going to be invaded by the Germans. We had more than enough troops and gear and the sucessful guerilla tactical ability to have had them all dead or in concentration camps by Kilkenny. They German's even admitted that without air support an invasion of Ireland would of been a suicide mission. We even had some awesom general back then who correctly predicted the Nazi plans and placed huge artillery and bunkers along the Nore Valley.

We would of slaughtered them and they knew it. The British and Americans were the real danger to the Free State beleive it or not.

Not sure if serious or not. Either way you're talking complete rubbish.

woodoo

Rwanda in 1994 is a complete horror story.

markesmith

LivelineDipso wrote: »

We were not going to be invaded by the Germans. We had more than enough troops and gear and the sucessful guerilla tactical ability to have had them all dead or in concentration camps by Kilkenny. They German's even admitted that without air support an invasion of Ireland would of been a suicide mission. We even had some awesom general back then who correctly predicted the Nazi plans and placed huge artillery and bunkers along the Nore Valley.

We would of slaughtered them and they knew it. The British and Americans were the real danger to the Free State beleive it or not.

Total rubbish son

summerskin

LivelineDipso wrote: »

We were not going to be invaded by the Germans. We had more than enough troops and gear and the sucessful guerilla tactical ability to have had them all dead or in concentration camps by Kilkenny. They German's even admitted that without air support an invasion of Ireland would of been a suicide mission. We even had some awesom general back then who correctly predicted the Nazi plans and placed huge artillery and bunkers along the Nore Valley.

We would of slaughtered them and they knew it. The British and Americans were the real danger to the Free State beleive it or not.

Jesus fûcking Christ. I'd love to know what history book you read. Did it come free in a box of Lucky Charms?

NegativeCreep

I'm not allowed complain about anything because someone who lived a long time ago had it worse? Goway.

Curly Judge

LivelineDipso wrote: »

We were not going to be invaded by the Germans. We had more than enough troops and gear and the sucessful guerilla tactical ability to have had them all dead or in concentration camps by Kilkenny. They German's even admitted that without air support an invasion of Ireland would of been a suicide mission. We even had some awesom general back then who correctly predicted the Nazi plans and placed huge artillery and bunkers along the Nore Valley.

We would of slaughtered them and they knew it. The British and Americans were the real danger to the Free State beleive it or not.

Do you have any concept of modern warfare of are you taking the piss?

Curly Judge

Here's a sobering thought for you!
Most of the genetic diversity we enjoy today has been spread by either rape or slavery.

No links.
I just made it up.
Comments?

Capt'n Midnight

IIRC 9 of the people who looked after the seed collection in Leningrad starved to death.


Over 300,000 Axis troops were surrounded at Stalingrad. About 50,000 mostly wounded were evacuated. Of the rest only 91,000 survived until the surrender, and of those only 5,000 ever saw Germany again,

And of those 5,000 most were officers.
Chances of survival proved brutally dependent on rank . Over 95 per cent of soldiers and NCO died , 55 per cent of junior officer and just 5 per cent

karma_

Wompa1 wrote: »

Especially considering we didn't contribute in a relatively large way to the war effort. We pretty much sat back and let everything unfold. Not to take away from the brave Irish men who fought for the British Armed Forces but our government at the time didn't exactly paint the country in glory.

I don't think Ireland could afford massive loss of life at the time either so it's kind of a catch 22.

Yawn. Can you not create a self-loathing thread somewhere else and flagellate yourself until content rather that making us all read this hyped-up nonsense over and over again?

Pompey Magnus

Wompa1 wrote: »

Especially considering we didn't contribute in a relatively large way to the war effort. We pretty much sat back and let everything unfold. Not to take away from the brave Irish men who fought for the British Armed Forces but our government at the time didn't exactly paint the country in glory.

Seems to me Ireland took a similar stance to the two main Allied powers in WW2, the USA and USSR remained neutral until the were attacked by the Axis powers and the difference was that we weren't. Had Hitler declared war on Ireland I doubt Dev would had pretended not to get the memo and kept neutral regardless.

When the two greatest powers on Earth had a similar stance to Ireland up until they were forced into war kind of puts a different slant on the anti-Irish propaganda which gets spouted every so often. Signing the book of condolence was an error in judgement but considering the atrocities committed by both sides in the war it was a very minor event in comparison.

Pottler

My old lad was at Stalingrad, so were three of his brothers. Three froze to death. His version was "try to survive" - I doubt your average German soldier had much political convicton at -27 c. Or any plan as such. Politicians have a lot to answer for.

Da Shins Kelly

Wompa1 wrote: »

Especially considering we didn't contribute in a relatively large way to the war effort. We pretty much sat back and let everything unfold. Not to take away from the brave Irish men who fought for the British Armed Forces but our government at the time didn't exactly paint the country in glory.

I don't think Ireland could afford massive loss of life at the time either so it's kind of a catch 22.

I think we did the right thing staying out of it. Ireland had just suffered two wars in the space of ten years and was only just coming to grips with it's new-found independence. We did not have the manpower or the technology to get involved in another war, especially on that scale. The Germans would have bombed the fcuk out of us, and the loss of life would have been huge. And how would we have recovered from that, given how little money and resources we had at that time? I think staying out of it was in the best interests of the country at the time (and generally I'm no fan of DeValera, think the man was c*nt). And it's not as though we were the only ones not bothering with it. The US, one of the most powerful nations on earth, didn't give a sh*t what was happening until it was happening to them, and then all of a sudden they burst on the scene about 5 years too late and claim that they won the war.

Rigol

Wompa1 wrote: »

Maybe less playing politics when it came to English ships along the shores, knowing they weren't going to do anything about German U-boats going through them. Also maybe not have De Valera sign a book of condolences.

As I said, the Irish regiment in the British forces were very brave. Fair play to them, they did the country proud.

Sorry ...whats this about German Uboats and Ireland ???

Shryke

Antony Beevors Stalingrad is a great book if anyone is interested. Historical, but reads like a novel. It keeps you hooked the whole way.

Pottler

Shryke wrote: »

Antony Beevors Stalingrad is a great book if anyone is interested. Historical, but reads like a novel. It keeps you hooked the whole way.

A very good read. Well worthwhile.

Capt'n Midnight

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Seems to me Ireland took a similar stance to the two main Allied powers in WW2, the USA and USSR remained neutral until the were attacked by the Axis powers and the difference was that we weren't.

WTF ??

USSR neutral ?
they invaded Poland too, ( the same Poland that taken a slice of Czechoslovakia a little earlier )
then they invaded Finland
and in June 1940 they took over Lithuania, Latvia , Estonia and parts of Romania

(and they had border clashes with the Japanese in Mongolia in '38 and WWII really started in '37 then the Japanese pushed out of Manchoko - the numbers killed there before the invasion of Poland were higher than US + Commonwealth casualties during the whole war)

More sobering aspects

Of the ~4.9 German Soldiers wounded or killed during the war only ~0.59 million weren't on the Eastern front.

3.1 million Russian POW's died over the first winter after the German invasion. Even the later extermination camps didn't kill off people at that rate.