Good food more expensive

WanabeOlympian

It's official.. eating healthy is more expensive. It's a lot cheaper to eat junk food. Something has to change, what should the government do? Or can they do anything?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-cost-of-living-how-cheap-junk-food-beats-fruit-and-veg-3308023.html

nice_guy80

WanabeOlympian wrote: »

It's official.. eating healthy is more expensive. It's a lot cheaper to eat junk food. Something has to change, what should the government do? Or can they do anything?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-cost-of-living-how-cheap-junk-food-beats-fruit-and-veg-3308023.html

why complain?
good food is good for you because it doesn't contain crap. i've no problem paying for quality food.
grow it yourself - a veg garden is a great way to save money and get fresh air!

EDIT: the price of frozen veg has come way down in the past 5 years. you can go into Aldi and get 5/6 varitities and enough frozen veg to do you 2 weeks with just €10.

Hanley

Hmmm... what should the government do to manipulate one of the most basic economic principles? Supply -v- demand.

Junk food is cheap to grow and produce.

"Good" food like fruit, veg and grass fed/organic beef/chicken is expensive to produce and can only be done in limited quantities.

Sh*t one, but that's the way it is. Taxing junk food and subsidising "good" food won't help.

The only possible solution is taking away some of the market/production subsidies/incentives for junk food, but that's outside of the Irish gov's jurisdiction.

Sooooo... rock, meet hard place.

adox

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056783695

Discussed last month.

Hanley

And you know, it's not even a cost thing. It's a cultural thing. There's a time investment and effort involved in producing good nutritious healthy meals, which CAN be produced on a budget.

But it requires more effort than most people are prepared to give. And that could be because of work/commute pressure etc.

BUT that's not a "cost" thing in the monetary sense with regards the raw materials of a healthy meal.

It's all a cop out basically - if it wasn't the price issue, people would find some other reason to justify eating junk.

Lingua Franca

I believe that's been a major problem in the US for years and thus contributing the growing collective weight of the American people. Government subsidies there have funded junk and processed food production for decades and fresh produce and non-intensively farmed meats are at a premium.

Swathes of American land are subsidised for corn production, for example. Corn has lots of starch and sugars and very little else by way of nutrients for humans, but it is subsidised and so worth growing. The majority of it goes to livestock feed but a good percentage of it is turned into the dreaded high fructose corn syrup and poured into almost every processed food, every school/canteen/prison etc meal. The price of corn is rising sharply next year because of some horrific weather conditions in the USA this year, having been hit with both floods and droughts. But I have no doubt that there's enough stockpiled to fill US demands for high calorie/low nutrient corn and corn syrup for quite some time since the USDA has been buying so much of it back from farmers for so long.

People will naturally lean towards more-bang-for-their buck where food costs are concerned even if that means buying high calorie, low nutrient food because it's cheaper. It's hard to make people concerned for their future health because we're naturally inclined to think of our best interests right now. The only thing I can think of to combat that is to educate the public on nutrition, balanced diet, kitchen gardening etc but that's a long term strategy that hasn't been working so far. I really wish I could have hope for the future but I really think that wealthy white western destiny is to be pried out of the couch and carried through the new hole in the house by firemen to get some pig valves inserted so that we can go right back to washing down buckets of popcorn and whole pizzas with a gallon of cola for less than a fiver.

nice_guy80

cut the VAT rate on healthy whole foods - ie fruit and veg, unprocessed meat, wholegrain products (linseeds etc), flour

rubadub

WanabeOlympian wrote: »

It's official.. eating healthy is more expensive.

You would really want to see the figures before calling it official. I have never seen any of these price surveys that I was happy with, independent or not. They never shop the way I do anyway, or most people I know.

The Healthy Food for All (HFA) alliance said its research showed it could be 10 times cheaper to get your calories from unhealthy processed food than healthy fresh produce, lean meat and fish.

If they showed the actual figures/examples of this "10 times" sensationalist quote, I bet most people would call it ridiculous. Its very easy to skew figures for the sake of a good story.

The small green grocer and small butchers near me are cheaper than tesco, lidl or dunnes for most stuff.

nice_guy80

rubadub wrote: »

You would really want to see the figures before calling it official. I have never seen any of these price surveys that I was happy with, independent or not. They never shop the way I do anyway, or most people I know.


If they showed the actual figures/examples of this "10 times" sensationalist quote, I bet most people would call it ridiculous. Its very easy to skew figures for the sake of a good story.

The small green grocer and small butchers near me are cheaper than tesco, lidl or dunnes for most stuff.

exactly

were they buying their veg & fruit in Donnybrook Fair or something?

Hanley

nice_guy80 wrote: »

cut the VAT rate on healthy whole foods - ie fruit and veg, unprocessed meat, wholegrain products (linseeds etc), flour

...say this does work, people then buy less junk products, less tax is raised and a net loss is created.

The back end health care benefit and reduction in costs doesn't materalise for decades, if ever, and we're in a sh*tter position.

Orla K

I don't think it's a question of money, it's more about time, effort and desire.

If you've no time to put the effort into making good food then your going to struggle and if you've no desire to find the time and make the effort then it's not going to happen.

SBWife

nice_guy80 wrote: »

cut the VAT rate on healthy whole foods - ie fruit and veg, unprocessed meat, wholegrain products (linseeds etc), flour

How do you cut the VAT when they are already 0% rated?

SunnyDub1

I'd rather pay more on good foods and live a longer and healthy life, rather then buy cheap junk foods that cause bad health issues.

Simples :cool:

Hanley

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

I'd rather pay more on good foods and live a longer and healthy life, rather then buy cheap junk foods that cause bad health issues.

Simples :cool:

You're one of the few!!!

Dotcomdolly

Same applies to spending money

Hanley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwrV5e6fMY

Emeraldy Pebbles

Hanley wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwrV5e6fMY

He's hard to take seriously, as he's quite doughy himself!

Hanley

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

He's hard to take seriously, as he's quite doughy himself!

Emeraldy Pebbles

Hanley wrote: »

Original!

I'm in work so couldn't watch but he is always on about healthy eating and fresh food. The fresh food part, grand, but he clearly eats too much of it. Or is this not what the video is about? I'd be shocked if it wasn't.

Hanley

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

Original!

I'm in work so couldn't watch but he is always on about healthy eating and fresh food. The fresh food part, grand, but he clearly eats too much of it. Or is this not what the video is about? I'd be shocked if it wasn't.

It's about how to save childrens lives.

hollypink

Hanley wrote: »

And you know, it's not even a cost thing. It's a cultural thing. There's a time investment and effort involved in producing good nutritious healthy meals, which CAN be produced on a budget.

But it requires more effort than most people are prepared to give. And that could be because of work/commute pressure etc.

BUT that's not a "cost" thing in the monetary sense with regards the raw materials of a healthy meal.

It's all a cop out basically - if it wasn't the price issue, people would find some other reason to justify eating junk.

I agree, I don't think it is about cost, or at least cost is not the most significant factor. For example, whenever I've been food shopping and considered what to have for dinner, I've never thought "oh the Lidl pizza is cheaper than the chicken stir fry, I'll have that". I've bought the pizza because it tastes nice in a way that the chicken stir-fry doesn't, even though I like the latter. I've seen it referred to as 'hyperpalatability'. Sometimes I would also think "well I had a tough day, I deserve a takeaway tonight". I would also consider that the pizza is easy to cook and there's virtually no preparation involved and very little washing-up. So I can go home, lob the pizza in the oven, and sit on the couch for the evening These aren't excuses for not eating healthily, I'm just explaining my thought process. I'm sure other people think the same.

I completely changed my eating habits in March in order to lose weight so I try to avoid processed food now except as a treat, but there's no denying that there is an effort involved in preparing your own meals, and the pizza/takeaway is always going to look good to me when I'm tired or hungry. There is of course a reward in eating good food but it's not an immediate reward.

El_Dangeroso

I really don't know what the solution is any more. Every action will have unintended consequences. The food companies are as powerful as the cigarette companies were in the 1950's right now and seem to be hell bent on blaming obesity on sedentary behaviour despite research showing that the increase in calories is more than enough to explain the weight gain of the population.

I think a good first step would be to ban any sort of food marketing that may reach children. No sports sponsorship, ads before the watershed or 'kids meals' with toy.

The obesity epidemic starts in children, I would hate to be a parent of a young child now, having to say 'no' to almost all food offered to your child. You have to relent just to not be 'that' parent.

A colleague of mine in work said of a kids party he attended recently. 'In 20 years time we are going to look at this like handing a pack of marlboro to a 6 year old', and no, given the looming epidemic of child obesity, I don't think he was exagerrating.

Emeraldy Pebbles

Hanley wrote: »

It's about how to save childrens lives.

Then I don't know how what I typed deserved a facepalm!

Hanley

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

Then I don't know how what I typed deserved a facepalm!

He's trying to save children's lives... you said he was hard to take seriously because he's doughy... I said "facepalm".

He's not even that big like.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

A colleague of mine in work said of a kids party he attended recently. 'In 20 years time we are going to look at this like handing a pack of marlboro to a 6 year old', and no, given the looming epidemic of child obesity, I don't think he was exagerrating.

Your colleague is a legend.

BlueIsland

What annoyed me about that article in the indo was the fact bread and breakfast cereals made the good food list!

SBWife

BlueIsland wrote: »

What annoyed me about that article in the indo was the fact bread and breakfast cereals made the good food list!

Compared to chips and doughnuts they're not so bad. While I'm not a huge eater of simple carbs myself I do think that there are foods that we demonise which may be counter productive to the health of the nation as a whole. A measured portion of low/no sugar breakfast cereal isn't that bad an option of you have a child who's a picky eater. If we tell people that they shouldn't feed their kids cereal and sandwiches, and the kids won't eat oatmeal and eggs or soup or salads etc. what options remain?

Emeraldy Pebbles

Hanley wrote: »

He's trying to save children's lives... you said he was hard to take seriously because he's doughy... I said "facepalm".

He's not even that big like.

I'd say he could be two stone overweight. It must be true what they say, that larger people are becoming normalised in our eyes. Look at him when he started and now, OK, he was early 20s then and is mid-late 30s now - but it's still a huge difference.

On his new show he cuts out a lot of fat from his recipes and replaces with low-fat substitutes. :-/

adox

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

I'd say he could be two stone overweight. It must be true what they say, that larger people are becoming normalised in our eyes. Look at him when he started and now, OK, he was early 20s then and is mid-late 30s now - but it's still a huge difference.

On his new show he cuts out a lot of fat from his recipes and replaces with low-fat substitutes. :-/

:eek:

Mellor

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

Original!

I'm in work so couldn't watch but he is always on about healthy eating and fresh food. The fresh food part, grand, but he clearly eats too much of it. Or is this not what the video is about? I'd be shocked if it wasn't.

No it isn't.

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

I'd say he could be two stone overweight. It must be true what they say, that larger people are becoming normalised in our eyes. Look at him when he started and now, OK, he was early 20s then and is mid-late 30s now - but it's still a huge difference.

On his new show he cuts out a lot of fat from his recipes and replaces with low-fat substitutes. :-/

He's talking about serving children complete crap in schools and people suggesting its acceptable.
Generations of americans who didn't cook creating a society that can't cook and lives on fast food.
Pre-school obesity FFS.
Children who can't recognisance basic vegetables. The same children who have a shorter life span than their parents.

Is he in heavier now that's he approaching 40. Yeah sure. Is that relevant? Not in the slightest.
This isn't about a few lbs of extra fat, or about telling people to eat a perfect diet of fresh food and to stay in peak physical shape. It's about not killing yourself with food.

Sure its easy to brush it off as the big fat Americans problem. And they are miles ahead of everyone in the obesity race. But the rest of us are trundling along after, towards the very same big fat finish line.

Emeraldy Pebbles

Mellor wrote: »

Is he in heavier now that's he approaching 40. Yeah sure. Is that relevant? Not in the slightest.

I think it is. He eats too much clearly. And looks quite pasty. I think people not having a clue about portion size is a big part of the problem. You can eat healthy stuff and still eat way too much of it.

Gummy Panda

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

I think it is. He eats too much clearly. And looks quite pasty. I think people not having a clue about portion size is a big part of the problem. You can eat healthy stuff and still eat way too much of it.

If he is overweight, he can dial in his calories but he may not have the same inflammation/deficients that people who rely on processed food will also be experiencing.

Emeraldy Pebbles

Gummy Panda wrote: »

If he is overweight, he can dial in his calories but he may not have the same inflammation/deficients that people who rely on processed food will also be experiencing.

He advocates diety low-fat products on his shows. These are veering away from natural and unprocessed. I actually like Jamie, I just think he's a tad misguided.

Davei141

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

I think it is. He eats too much clearly. And looks quite pasty.

The bolded bit say's it all. What other irrelevant stuff do you want to give out about? His choice of clothes? Too much hair gel?

Gummy Panda

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

He advocates diety low-fat products on his shows. These are veering away from natural and unprocessed. I actually like Jamie, I just think he's a tad misguided.

He does? Must've changed style

last one I saw it was all vegetables, olive oil, and home made sauces.

Emeraldy Pebbles

Davei141 wrote: »

The bolded bit say's it all. What other irrelevant stuff do you want to give out about? His choice of clothes? Too much hair gel?

I'm not talking skin colour, I mean a pasty unhealthy look to him. That's not irrelevant.

Don't know why my views are causing such consternation. You don't have to agree, you know! Yeesh!

Gummy Panda wrote: »

He does? Must've changed style

last one I saw it was all vegetables, olive oil, and home made sauces.

Yup, zero fat yoghurt in lieu of cream and creme fraiche, not adding butter to mashed spuds and whatnot. Whilst not cutting down on bread.

Mellor

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

I think it is. He eats too much clearly. And looks quite pasty. I think people not having a clue about portion size is a big part of the problem. You can eat healthy stuff and still eat way too much of it.

Again. If you think his carrying slightly more fat now (which is he, prob average for his age) makes what he said less true, then you haven't a clue really.
Have you even watched the video? Perhaps refute something he actually said in it.

Emeraldy Pebbles

Mellor wrote: »

Again. If you think his carrying slightly more fat now (which is he, prob average for his age) makes what he said less true, then you haven't a clue really.
Have you even watched the video? Perhaps refute something he actually said in it.

Not that, but I watched his American school dinners show. He does make a lot of good points, and school dinners are atrocious, especially in America. I just don't think he looks massively healthy himself. You might think he does, or that it doesn't matter if he doesn't. That's your call. Let's move on.

Rebrabuk

Really another one of these threads? Think it was pretty clear from the last one that people claiming it was expensive to eat healthily was more down to lack of cooking knowledge/nutritional information.

Shame to see the independent coming out with ****e like this, it's fair that they're mentioning that the prices are rising but the cost difference is nowhere near as bad as they try to claim if anything they're just creating another excuse for people who won't face facts.

ArthurG

WanabeOlympian wrote: »

It's official.. eating healthy is more expensive. It's a lot cheaper to eat junk food. Something has to change, what should the government do? Or can they do anything?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-cost-of-living-how-cheap-junk-food-beats-fruit-and-veg-3308023.html

Did anyone read the article?. I doesn't actually say healthy food is more expensive than junk food, it says the price is rising faster for healthy food. Very different thing.....

"The price of healthy food is rising much faster than the price of unhealthy products, affecting the diets of people struggling on lower incomes.

.......For example, pizza and ice cream cost 5pc less than they did a year ago, but vegetables and beef prices have shot up by 7pc and potatoes are up 19pc.

........Meanwhile, the price of ready meals has plummeted by almost 10pc in three years, whereas the price of fresh fruit rose 4pc in that time."

Really depends what the price was pre increase. And despite that, I still believe you can buy enough beef and potatoes to make a stew for far less than the cost of a pizza large enough to feed a family.

Rebrabuk

ArthurG wrote: »

Did anyone read the article?. I doesn't actually say healthy food is more expensive than junk food, it says the price is rising faster for healthy food. Very different thing.....

It very specifically states it

"The Healthy Food for All (HFA) alliance said its research showed it could be 10 times cheaper to get your calories from unhealthy processed food than healthy fresh produce, lean meat and fish."

This is a ridiculous claim and hugely misinformed. I am quite confident I can feed myself for 60€(and that actually seems excessive to me) a week whilst remaining healthy are they really going to claim someone can do the same for 6€.

nice_guy80

Rebrabuk wrote: »

It very specifically states it

"The Healthy Food for All (HFA) alliance said its research showed it could be 10 times cheaper to get your calories from unhealthy processed food than healthy fresh produce, lean meat and fish."

This is a ridiculous claim and hugely misinformed. I am quite confident I can feed myself for 60€(and that actually seems excessive to me) a week whilst remaining healthy are they really going to claim someone can do the same for 6€.

€60?
I suppose once you factor in fruit, veg, meat, salad for work, eggs, some bread for a sambo each day for work, peanut butter, tea, coffee, oils, spices for cooking, protein powder, coconut milk (I think i'm gone over 60)

Lingua Franca

Rebrabuk wrote: »

It very specifically states it

"The Healthy Food for All (HFA) alliance said its research showed it could be 10 times cheaper to get your calories from unhealthy processed food than healthy fresh produce, lean meat and fish."

This is a ridiculous claim and hugely misinformed. I am quite confident I can feed myself for 60€(and that actually seems excessive to me) a week whilst remaining healthy are they really going to claim someone can do the same for 6€.

It's not ridiculous or misinformed at all. How many calories per euro do you get from a frozen pizza, and how many from a homemade from fresh ingredients one?

Don't get me wrong, I cook everything from scratch and believe you can feed a family very well on a tight budget with a little bit of effort. But processed food manufacturers can get a much better price for basic ingredients than I can, and the prices offered to me are hampered by poor local harvests and higher fuel prices. A box of frozen pizzas or chicken nuggets and a sack of frozen chips (and other stuff my family doesn't eat) from Iceland will absolutely, definitely cost much less than I could make the fresh articles for, and the frozen stuff will have more calorific value than my homemade food.


What is misinformed is comparing the article's cost per calorie assertion with your entire food budget and shopping practices. As an example, a sack of Tesco Value frozen sausages has 3450kcal for 1.99. That's almost 2 days worth of calories at a euro per day.


Incidentally, a friend of mine in Belfast completed a week of living like a asylum seeker to raise awareness earlier this year. He got 10 pounds to live on, since that's all that asylum seekers get. He didn't starve, but he did have to eat a tremendous amount of sh*te.