"Black people can't be racist by definition" - Paul Mooney

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Paul Mooney, an acclaimed American stand up comedian and friend to Richard Pryor, says in this clip that "A black person can't be racist by definition, because we don't have any control over other people's lives. I can't tell you what neighbourhood to live in. I can't tell you what school to go to. I can't tell you you're a second-class citizen. I can't tell you that you can't vote."

Of course, neither can almost all white people, so I guess almost all white people can't be racist by definition, either?

Mooney is clearly someone who has experienced a lot of racism in his life, and it has affected his character. However, I think the idea that you must have "control over other people's lives" in order to be racist is ridiculous.

By that logic, a lower-class, unemployed white person, without any influence in the world, who screams "nigger" at a black passer-by is not behaving in a racist fashion.

looksee

I can see that he has issues, and I can see what he is trying to express, but he doesn't really understand the meaning of the word racist, though obviously he fully understands the consequences of racism.

myflipflops

He should try being a white guy in a country that is 96% black. I'm not sure why he thinks a persons skin pigmentation means they cannot be racist.

Any minority can suffer discrimination in a society be it black people in a white dominated society, white people in a black dominated society, gay people in a straight society, Muslims in a Christian society etc etc.

At the end of the people, some people are w*nkers regardless of anything else.

LivelineDipso

America is bit mad alright.

Chuck Stone

When he's talking about institutional racism (discriminatory laws etc) he's more right than wrong when he says that black people can't be racist because they don't have the power to be.

1ZRed

Eh.. racism isn't just about skin colour

dd972

what about the genocide in Rwanda, carried out by one set of people against another deemed racially inferior

looksee

Discriminatory laws are the consequence of racism. They are racist laws but you don't have to have discriminatory laws to be racist. Or sexist or ageist or any other -ist.

fran oconnor

the brits must have just been racist to us for OVER 800 years so, this is the thing that pisses me off about black people a lot of them think its only one way.. Every black comedian gets off on white jokes etc.

Rodin

Load of auld rubbish from him.

Rigol

From what I hear of Sth Africa, now isn't a good time to be white there.
There may be a little bit of 'reverse' racism, a slight sentiment of revenge.

Annasopra

1ZRed wrote: »

Eh.. racism isn't just about skin colour

Not sure what you mean?

Sinfonia

The video title refers to racism in America, and I imagine Mooney is speaking on those terms.

Tombi!

Assuming he is talking about America, he kinda does have a point. But I think it would really only apply to an older generation.
I think it was Bill Cosby who said (paraphrased) that black youths today have much more advantages than he had in his day and it's upsetting to see how they're not living up to their potential. Something like that anyhow.

I still think the fella in the video is a bit of an idiot, though.

1ZRed

mango salsa wrote: »

Not sure what you mean?

Like racism transcends skin colour and includes ethnicity as well, like travellers, etc.

dodderangler

IMO they are more racist than anyone else
Him claiming black people cannot be racist is a racist remark in itself

Smashius_Clay

fran oconnor wrote: »

the brits must have just been racist to us for OVER 800 years so, this is the thing that pisses me off about black people a lot of them think its only one way.. Every black comedian gets off on white jokes etc.

Hannibal Buress doesn't!

Sound of Silence

Smashius_Clay wrote: »

Hannibal Buress doesn't!

Great comedian.

B.A._Baracus

Bull - fucking - shit!

My girlfriend is African and we've both gotten dirty looks from white and black people.

mike65

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Bull - fucking - shit!

My girlfriend is African and we've both gotten dirty looks from white and black people.

That's cos no one likes a sell out man!

B.A._Baracus

mike65 wrote: »

That's cos no one likes a sell out man!

Such a racist thing to say :pac:

GalwayGuy2

but don't the travelers themselves consider travelers to be a different race or something.....something cultural anyway

Nope. Some think that travelers would be better protected as a different ethnicity, but a lot of travelers oppose that as they believe they are as Irish as anybody else.

Of course black people can be racist. In a strange way he's actually belittling black people by saying no black person has a) the ability to be racist or the institutional power to be racist. Which could be a legitimate criticsm that America doesn't have enough black men and women in power, or that he doesn't see the black men and women in power as powerful.

emo72

mango salsa wrote: »

Not sure what you mean?

I think it's about race, not skin colour.

randylonghorn

ban_me wrote: »

.

No problemo!

Scruffles

fran oconnor wrote: »

the brits must have just been racist to us for OVER 800 years so, this is the thing that pisses me off about black people a lot of them think its only one way.. Every black comedian gets off on white jokes etc.

irish or british isnt a race,theyre nationalities [or group of nationalities in britains case],it isnt racist to abuse someone for being irish,english,scottish or welsh but if it was an accute attack on their nationality it woud be classed as hate crime,good luck in getting it taken seriously though.
silly how slurs,attacks and abuse towards one group; including other minority and vulnerable groups can be laughed away and openly allowed by society while slurs and abuse towards another group is treated with serious consequences and openly shunned by society.
-its wrong to teach kids that their suffering from abuse doesnt matter because it doesnt involve a minority race,religeon or sexuality,abuse is abuse end of.

anyway as for this bloke in the OP,never heard of him though he has brought back fond memories from being a ten year old; started riding a pony called mooney.:P

Stained Class

I thought that Black people in the US might have a voice or direction or some excuse to get that chip off their shoulder when Obama got elected.

He's been Re-elected recently.

Has anything changed?

A lot of them seem to have lost hope already & continue on in a world that is not the American Dream.

I know I'll get slated for asking these questions, but............

Hippies!

Stained Class wrote: »

I know I'll get slated for asking these questions, but............

You won't it's ok....we're all friends here

Rabies

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Bull - fucking - shit!

My girlfriend is African and we've both gotten dirty looks from white and black people.

My ex is Indian/Egyptian. Went out for over a year. Got the same odd looks and comments from both sides. Most were the same as me didn't care.
Going out to a club one night she advised me to not go to a certain hip hop club because I wasn't black enough or even dressed right to fit in.
A friend of mine is married to a Tongan guy. His family don't want anything to do with her because she is white.
Racism works both ways.

1ZRed

1ZRed wrote: »

Like racism transcends skin colour and includes ethnicity as well, like travellers, etc.

I'm sorry, but if they're travelers, then it's not racist. They are a sub-culture and a predominantly white one at that. It's discrimination, not racism.

later12

Ariel Thousands Chipmunk wrote: »

By that logic, a lower-class, unemployed white person, without any influence in the world, who screams "nigger" at a black passer-by is not behaving in a racist fashion.

Racism means lots of different things to lots of different people.
One would imagine that Mooney was speaking rather narrowly - perhaps stupidly narrowly - based on his experiences.

I would have some sympathy with what I think he is saying - that white people are, in the United States of America, in an almost institutionally recognized position of ingrained authority, and black people are incapable of dominating that authority, and therefore are completely not in a position to exert control over their social 'lessers'. Yes, even in a jurisdiction with a mixed race President; race is far more institutionalised than merely 'at the top'.

I think he worded it badly, but I don't disagree with what I'd interpret him as saying.

joydivision

Course black people can be a racist . Linford Christie was a famous racer . Household name .

EZ24GET

ra·cism
[ ráy sìzzəm ]

1. animosity toward other races: prejudice or animosity against people who belong to other races
2. belief in racial superiority: the belief that people of different races have different qualities and abilities, and
that some races are inherently superior or inferior.

So anyone can be racist toward any other race. not to be confused with nationality or minority status.

Sinfonia

later12 wrote: »

I would have some sympathy with what I think he is saying - that white people are, in the United States of America, in an almost institutionally recognized position of ingrained authority, and black people are incapable of dominating that authority, and therefore are completely not in a position to exert control over their social 'lessers'. Yes, even in a jurisdiction with a mixed race President; race is far more institutionalised than merely 'at the top'.

I think he worded it badly, but I don't disagree with what I'd interpret him as saying.

This video isn't some political address to the nation, it's an interview with a man (and comedian by profession); Mooney has strong opinions for sure (like anyone!) and he's going to speak in an idiomatic way that expresses his feelings the way he feels them. That often means that a lot of comments will be tongue-in-cheek or overgeneralising. I don't know why people are focusing on the specific wording here, rather than the sentiment (which I believe you've explained perfectly later12).

For some further Mooney context, here's an interview with him regarding his feelings over Michael Richards's fateful stand-up show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cuX2uYOi4g

Maximus Alexander

That whole "black president being elected for the second consecutive time" thing must have passed clear over his head.

GalwayGuy2

I would have some sympathy with what I think he is saying - that white people are, in the United States of America, in an almost institutionally recognized position of ingrained authority, and black people are incapable of dominating that authority, and therefore are completely not in a position to exert control over their social 'lessers'. Yes, even in a jurisdiction with a mixed race President; race is far more institutionalised than merely 'at the top'.

Are we better or worse in Ireland?

That whole "black president being elected for the second consecutive time" thing must have passed clear over his head.

Isn't there a joke (that would drive me insane if I was him) that Obama is "half white"?

1ZRed

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry, but if they're travelers, then it's not racist. They are a sub-culture and a predominantly white one at that. It's discrimination, not racism.

You're right. I said ethnicities but it's racism, so purely race then. Feeling thick(er) now thanks

Sinfonia

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That whole "black president being elected for the second consecutive time" thing must have passed clear over his head.

The doc was released in 2008, before Obama was ever president.

Executive Steve

Racism and prejudice are subtly different things, although they're certainly inextricably linked.

In the very narrow sense of the word that he is using here (talking about white Protestant hegemonic patriarchal oppression in the United States of America) he is absolutely correct.

joydivision

If I said I wouldnt be racist if it wasnt for all them white folk .
Would that make me racist .

later12

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Are we better or worse in Ireland?

Oddly enough imo, black people are of such a tiny minority in Ireland, that the general population is more likely to be paranoid about accusations of racism than if the black population were more prevalent.

Interestingly enough, one of the highest alternative ethnicities in Ireland - the Irish travellers - are likely to prove the most contentious; they are our 'black people'; if not a good deal worse off in socio economic terms

Wompa1

It's funny. Everybody in Ireland was telling me about how backwards and racist Arizona is before I moved here(none had actually been to Arizona themselves). I've been to Australia, Germany, UK, Greece, Spain and obviously Ireland and I think, for what my opinion is worth, but I think this place is the most racially tolerant place I have been.

I never thought Ireland was racist. But it was always apparent that for the most part certain nationalities seemed to keep themselves segregated and didn't really integrate into Irish society. I had thought this was because of those peoples themselves but maybe it's down to not feeling welcome by the Irish. It seems like everybody mixes where I am now. Or at least that's my perception.

B.A._Baracus

I have to say while I liked the Paul Mooney skits on The Chappelle Show. This motherfucker is so racist and all he is doing is breeding more hate and discrimination.

Killer Wench

Mooney makes a valid and accurate point.


The original term was "racialism". "Racism" was later coined to describe the belief that there was differences between the races. Later, the terms became synonyms for each other. Back in the early days, racialism/racism was about the hoarding of resources for the benefit of your group; it was about an imbalance of power with the intent of keeping your race in a superior position. Thus, in the historical sense, Blacks could not be racist towards Whites because Blacks lacked the power and resources to oppress Whites whereas Whites had the power and resources to oppress Blacks. It is about institutional and structural racism and it is far more crippling to our community than individual acts of racism. For more reading on this, please acquaint yourself with W.E.B. Du Bois and his work, "The Souls of Black Folk".

Furthermore, in the US, Black is an ethnic group distinct from black the racial group. Mooney is talking about the history of Black Americans, and our history in the US. It is a narrow context that cannot be applied to the experiences of all black folk.

mikemac1

later12 wrote: »

- the Irish travellers - are likely to prove the most contentious; they are our 'black people';

Not so later12, it's the Dubs who are the blacks


Do you not get it, lads? The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once, say it loud: I'm black and I'm proud.

floggg

myflipflops wrote: »

He should try being a white guy in a country that is 96% black. I'm not sure why he thinks a persons skin pigmentation means they cannot be racist.

Yes, those poor south Africans had it so bad.

Unlike the Zimbabewaeans

BizzyC

Sounds like he's confusing racism with oppression

MagicSean

His point might make a bit more sense if there wasn't a black president on his second term.

Hogata

To call a black man ,,a black " it is a rasism . But ! to call a white man a ,,white " or even worst its ok
We ,a white people , have to be very careful whit what we say . ,,They " dont have to be - that is rasizm .
So , life it is very unfair .

Anyway - nobody say gonna be easy ...

Sinfonia

Post #34:

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That whole "black president being elected for the second consecutive time" thing must have passed clear over his head.

Post #37:

Sinfonia wrote: »

The doc was released in 2008, before Obama was ever president.

Post #47:

MagicSean wrote: »

His point might make a bit more sense if there wasn't a black president on his second term.

9959

BizzyC wrote: »

Sounds like he's confusing racism with oppression

It could be argued that racism is a form of oppression, perhaps someone here could make it, I'm tired.

Killer Wench

9959 wrote: »

It could be argued that racism is a form of oppression, perhaps someone here could make it, I'm tired.

Of course racism is a form of oppression. The video's title specificly refers to racism in the US. Mooney is talking about Black Americans within the context of our history of oppression. Mooney would have been born and raised within the Jim Crow legacy. Lets keep it in context.