The "financial standing" of Donegal County Council

GetWithIt

The, now annual, Donegal County Council finances looking pretty ropey story makes the national press as a footnote to yet another household charge story.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/councils-budgets-cut-as-too-few-pay-household-charge-3305329.html

The Local Government Auditor says he is concerned about the "financial standing" of Donegal County Council, which, despite cutting costs, owes €156m in long-term loans and has a deficit of more than €12m.
The council is also owed €11m in unpaid commercial rates and €11.7m in unpaid water charges.

These figures are nothing short of a disgrace. If this was a private company all the senior management would have been fired. I'm not sure where the Council goes from here. I don't see what sort of viable function it can perform.

md23040

GetWithIt wrote: »

These figures are nothing short of a disgrace. If this was a private company all the senior management would have been fired. I'm not sure where the Council goes from here. I don't see what sort of viable function it can perform.

What do you mean by all the firing, what's your remedy/plan. Btw I'm no cheerleader of local authorities.....

2moreMinutes

GetWithIt wrote: »

If this was a private company all the senior management would have been fired. I'm not sure where the Council goes from here. I don't see what sort of viable function it can perform.

I wonder have the senior management of the businesses who havent paid their rates been fired? If the county of Donegal was a private company, a lot of its residents(employees) would also be fired for refusing to pay the household charge. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your general sentiment but the issues go beyond the Council itself.

Firblog

2moreMinutes wrote: »

but the issues go beyond the Council itself.

ummmm No they don't.. The council is responsible for collecting the water charges & rates; just as any business is responsible for collecting payment for the services it delivers. However the council mgt/employees seems to have treated that responsibility in a very cavalier fashion if the outstanding amounts are to be believed, surely they did not just accumulate in just one or two years?

The council (mgt) do not seem to be able to perform even the most mundane of management tasks, building up huge debts, not collecting badly needed income & spending fortunes on pie in the sky / badly thought out projects (sewage treatment plant to pump into the foyle) are hardly in the handbook of great mgt strategies, and in a normal (perhaps not the banks) private business would more than likely lead to heads rolling

2moreMinutes

As I said, I dont disagree with the general sentiments that the Council wastes a huge amount of money but to lay the blame for large deficits and substantial rates debtors squarely at their feet is putting your head in the sand and absolving lots of other people of their fair share of the blame (non-household charge payers and business people who place rates as their last bill to be paid to name two groups).

Rodin

they should stop trying to make 4ft thick tarmac roads outside letterkenny

NIMAN

Aye, spread a bit of that tarmac further north!

Pique

Firblog wrote: »

ummmm No they don't.. The council is responsible for collecting the water charges & rates; just as any business is responsible for collecting payment for the services it delivers. However the council mgt/employees seems to have treated that responsibility in a very cavalier fashion if the outstanding amounts are to be believed, surely they did not just accumulate in just one or two years?

The council (mgt) do not seem to be able to perform even the most mundane of management tasks, building up huge debts, not collecting badly needed income & spending fortunes on pie in the sky / badly thought out projects (sewage treatment plant to pump into the foyle) are hardly in the handbook of great mgt strategies, and in a normal (perhaps not the banks) private business would more than likely lead to heads rolling

So who's more at fault ? The council who is owed the money by non-paying people, or the people who refuse to pay?

Firblog

Sorry guys, but from a business standpoint the blame lies squarely with the council if they can't be arsed collecting the money owed....

Strange isn't it that they're threatening to take ppl who owe €100 in property tax to court when they are owed over €4.5 MILLION by developers for years and no one has seen the inside of a courtroom yet.. who's responsible there?

Mr_A

Doesn't every business / entity suffer a certain level of bad debt. Is the council's more than average?

Pique

Firblog wrote: »

Sorry guys, but from a business standpoint the blame lies squarely with the council if they can't be arsed collecting the money owed....

Strange isn't it that they're threatening to take ppl who owe €100 in property tax to court when they are owed over €4.5 MILLION by developers for years and no one has seen the inside of a courtroom yet.. who's responsible there?

Who says that they can't be arsed collecting monies owed ? Nobody but you, it seems.

Bankrupt businesses are not likely to be worth pursuing.
There are 57000 households in Donegal. That's €5.7 MILLION. Well worth pursuing.

Firblog

Pique wrote: »

Who says that they can't be arsed collecting monies owed ? Nobody but you, it seems.

Perhaps the fact that they haven't actually collected what's owing, and haven't brought anyone to court over the non payment of whats owing might be a little indication that they're just not that bothered?

Do you think they're doing a good job in this respect? I'm interested how you can think that anyone is responsible for the non collection of what is due other than the people who are paid to collect it

Pique

Firblog wrote: »

I'm interested how you can think that anyone is responsible for the non collection of what is due other than the people who are paid to collect it

I'm interested as to how you think anyone is responsible for the non-payment of what is due, other than the people of Donegal who are liable to pay it?

Surely the onus is on those non-payers of Donegal FIRST and then falls to the collection and enforcement agencies. Same as any and all other taxes.

Or do you endorse non-payment of all taxes in Donegal unless and until the Revenue force it out of the clenched fist of those who refuse to pay ?

Do you blame Revenue for those in Donegal who refuse to pay tax, Firblog?

Firblog

Revenue Mission Statement

To serve the community by fairly and efficiently collecting taxes and duties and implementing Customs controls

Revenue Core Business

The core business is the assessment and collection of taxes and duties

At least the revenue understand their job & what they are getting paid for even if others don't

There isn't one business in the world that would survive if it didn't collect the monies due to it; there is an onus on the customers to pay for the goods/services they recieve; however if there are customers who are not paying it is the responsibility of the business to ensure that money is collected.
The council has an even heavier responsibility as it is money that is owing to us the public, to provide services that must be paid for. If they are not collecting it then they are not doing what they are paid to do. Don't know how to put it any simpler..

2moreMinutes

Firblog wrote: »

Revenue Mission Statement

To serve the community by fairly and efficiently collecting taxes and duties and implementing Customs controls

Revenue Core Business

The core business is the assessment and collection of taxes and duties

At least the revenue understand their job & what they are getting paid for even if others don't

A lot of the taxes that Revenue collect are collected under the self-assessment system so while the Revenue does actually collect the money, it is the taxpayer that makes the return, declares the amount of tax to be paid and then pays it. Of course, self-assessment only works for compliant taxpayers and is of no use whatsoever for that group of people who feel that they dont need to contribute to society in any little bit.

It seems from your post that you understand the Revenue to come out to all our houses once a year with a bill and dont leave until they have a cheque from us for the tax due.

The council has an even heavier responsibility as it is money that is owing to us the public, to provide services that must be paid for. If they are not collecting it then they are not doing what they are paid to do. Don't know how to put it any simpler..

The Household Charge was/is also a self-assessment charge. It is a charge that is owing to us the public, to provide services that must be paid for. If the house owner didnt make a declaration and didnt pay the charge because of one misguided reason or another, how can the blame for that be laid at the Councils door?

Firblog

2moreMinutes wrote: »

It seems from your post that you understand the Revenue to come out to all our houses once a year with a bill and dont leave until they have a cheque from us for the tax due.

Where you get that idea is beyond me.

2moreMinutes wrote: »

The Household Charge was/is also a self-assessment charge.

See above... perhaps a bit of research is in order?

2moreMinutes wrote: »

If the house owner didnt make a declaration and didnt pay the charge because of one misguided reason or another, how can the blame for that be laid at the Councils door?

Never said the council was to blame for people not paying charges, but they are totally to blame for not collecting them