The '15 Man' Lineout

Gargled

Ok there was 13 in the actual line but it was a 15 man lineout IMO! Great to see this getting a (quick) appearance in the modern game.

Got me thinking.... are there any other old tricks that we could pull out in the 6 nations!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1ouXp35Fvc

Teferi

Gatland had Ireland do it years ago too, I think.

It's a bit showy, great for the crowd but if NZ had of gotten the ball it would have been a very easy try. Only a desperate team would attempt it tbh.

Podge_irl

Ireland did it and still failed to get a try though I don't remember the details (thankfully).

A 13 man lineout is technically the largest you can have anyway (I think) - you need a hooker and scrum half.

pickarooney

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ireland did it and still failed to get a try though I don't remember the details (thankfully).

A 13 man lineout is technically the largest you can have anyway (I think) - you need a hooker and scrum half.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSQG74Tue0&feature=player_detailpage#t=624s

The end of that match is some display of defending from Argentina although that would be a penalty try every day of the week now I reckon.

ANXIOUS

Reminded me of the time we were playing Italy under EOS, we had a scrum and everyone lined up on the same side. Scrum collapsed and never seen it again.

Gargled

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ireland did it and still failed to get a try though I don't remember the details (thankfully).

A 13 man lineout is technically the largest you can have anyway (I think) - you need a hooker and scrum half.

No need for a scrum half in this situation. Maybe he was there for insurance!

Reloc8

pickarooney wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSQG74Tue0&feature=player_detailpage#t=624s

The end of that match is some display of defending from Argentina although that would be a penalty try every day of the week now I reckon.

I tend to agree.

Jeebus though, there is something awfully depressing about having BOD at 13 from set-piece in their 22 and the best we can try and come up with is to mullockmullockmullock.

BBDBB

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Reminded me of the time we were playing Italy under EOS, we had a scrum and everyone lined up on the same side. Scrum collapsed and never seen it again.

didnt they all line up directly behind the scrum?

Im sure I recall that being against Italy & a scrum collapse meaning we never found out the plan

Gargled

BBDBB wrote: »

didnt they all line up directly behind the scrum?

Im sure I recall that being against Italy & a scrum collapse meaning we never found out the plan

That does ring bells alright. We had something similar at SCT level! Rarely worked though

Tox56

BBDBB wrote: »

didnt they all line up directly behind the scrum?

Im sure I recall that being against Italy & a scrum collapse meaning we never found out the plan

23 minutes in here:

Never have I been more disappointed to see a scrum collapse

twinytwo

Gargled wrote: »

Ok there was 13 in the actual line but it was a 15 man lineout IMO! Great to see this getting a (quick) appearance in the modern game.

Got me thinking.... are there any other old tricks that we could pull out in the 6 nations!?

I for one hope, they bring in a law to prevent crap like this.. if your going to take a beating, take it like a man.... A lineout like that just smacks of desperation, the sort of thing you see at underage. Very unbecomming of professional athletes.

I mean what not just do it for every lineout in the 22, they either have to match you or chances are you score.

Most of the "old tricks" have been outlawed.... for example putting you lineout under the posts for long range shots at goal and catching the ball before it goes over.

Gargled

twinytwo wrote: »

I for one hope, they bring in a law to prevent crap like this.. if your going to take a beating, take it like a man.... A lineout like that just smacks of desperation, the sort of thing you see at underage. Very unbecomming of professional athletes.

I mean what not just do it for every lineout in the 22, they either have to match you or chances are you score.

Most of the "old tricks" have been outlawed.... for example putting you lineout under the posts for long range shots at goal and catching the ball before it goes over.

I don't see anything wrong with 'playing' the laws as they stand. If you are taking a beating, why not try something different!?

Reloc8

^ I think the additional numbers in the lineout are legit and wouldn't change the laws.

I love plays like this :-

Reloc8

Taking it too far :-

PhatPiggins

If Wales didn't score would it have been a free kick against NZ as they had incorrect numbers in the lineout?

twinytwo

Tox56 wrote: »

23 minutes in here:



Never have I been more disappointed to see a scrum collapse

so was i... knowing our luck that would have the back move to end all back moves:(

Podge_irl

PhatPiggins wrote: »

If Wales didn't score would it have been a free kick against NZ as they had incorrect numbers in the lineout?

They're allowed fewer men in the lineout just not more.

tolosenc

BBDBB wrote: »

didnt they all line up directly behind the scrum?

Im sure I recall that being against Italy & a scrum collapse meaning we never found out the plan

Yeah, one behind another, very tight. Distinctly remember Hickie being one of them.

Have always wondered what that play was.

Reloc8

Ultimately though I settle for some of this :-

Two dummies in one and a no-look pass. Can't defend against that sort of stuff (I appreciate its not perhaps the sort of trick play the OP meant but look at the hands from French 10 and the decoy lines from 15 and 12 here)

tolosenc

Reloc8 wrote: »

Ultimately though I settle for some of this :-

Sexton to Fitzgerald against Cardiff last April?

Reloc8

Very similar soft hands but that French try...I could watch it over and over and over again. Even when you know its coming the final pass is sublime.

.ak

Gargled wrote: »

Ok there was 13 in the actual line but it was a 15 man lineout IMO! Great to see this getting a (quick) appearance in the modern game.

Got me thinking.... are there any other old tricks that we could pull out in the 6 nations!?

Wait, only seeing this now, but I thought this was against the rules? Since Ireland used it in the RWC? Could swore I read somewhere lineouts were supposed to be limited to 8 players or something?

Reloc8

Nope law 19.8 definitions 'The team throwing in the ball decides the maximum number of players in the lineout'.

Hasn't been changed.

But you have to have a receiver when the lineout begins, and one player must throw in, so 13 is the maximum possible.

Taco Corp

.ak wrote: »

Wait, only seeing this now, but I thought this was against the rules? Since Ireland used it in the RWC? Could swore I read somewhere lineouts were supposed to be limited to 8 players or something?

When I first saw it I thought it would "Flying Wedge" category but it was a line out (no limit on no. of players) turned maul (again no limit).

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81915524&postcount=169

http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/3/10/95/during-the-match/foul-play/dangerous-play-and-misconduct/#clause_95

tolosenc

I like the play where Devin Toner sat down and reached over the line.

City boy turned country

After I seen this, I was thinking what could NZ do to stop this. Apart from put 13 men in themselves, could they have stepped back from the maul, not competed and then expect the referee to penalise Wales for the offside rule?

seanm92

Reloc8 wrote: »

^ I think the additional numbers in the lineout are legit and wouldn't change the laws.

I love plays like this :-

I remember Sale using this exact same move in a heineken game around 06/07ish vs Leicester?? Cant seem to find it on youtube though. Great idea surprised I havent seen it used since apart from in that video

Reloc8

City boy turned country wrote: »

After I seen this, I was thinking what could NZ do to stop this. Apart from put 13 men in themselves, could they have stepped back from the maul, not competed and then expect the referee to penalise Wales for the offside rule?

Options would be :-

1. Compete and win throw, or

2. Sack it when the jumper comes down, don't engage with a secondary drive if formed and appeal for penalty if ball carrier not tackleable at all times, and/or sack the secondary drive when it forms, making sure not to form a maul at any stage.

3. Thrown a few more lads in there and push like **** !

Clareman

Just thought there, what's to stop a team having a bean pole in the line out and just throwing them over the line, i.e. lift, when they get the ball fire them over the line, Toner for example is 7 feet tall, lift him up, his waist would then be ~6 feet off the ground add in his ~4 feet, that'd be 10 feet, the lifters then don't let him down and get him over the line, you can't tackle a player in the air after all.

Conchir

Could've sworn there's a rule against holding a player up in the air for a prolonged period, I think you can only lift and then bring down the player immediately.

Swan Curry

Would they not just have it as dangerous play for the same reasons you can't jump over a tackle?

Reloc8

Conchir wrote: »

Could've sworn there's a rule against holding a player up in the air for a prolonged period, I think you can only lift and then bring down the player immediately.

Correct 19.10(g)

"Lowering a Player. Players who support a jumping team-mate must lower that player to the ground as soon as the ball has been won by a player of either team.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line"

Also walking around in a congested area with him up there is a safety issue and liable to penalty for dangerous play

sydthebeat

Reloc8 wrote: »

^ I think the additional numbers in the lineout are legit and wouldn't change the laws.

I love plays like this :-

i think every youths team has a play like this.

our youths set up the eight forwards in a wall..... and the ball never goes beyond the first receiver... yet the backs fan out like its going to the end of the wall

Eoin

twinytwo wrote: »

I for one hope, they bring in a law to prevent crap like this.. if your going to take a beating, take it like a man.... A lineout like that just smacks of desperation, the sort of thing you see at underage. Very unbecomming of professional athletes.

I mean what not just do it for every lineout in the 22, they either have to match you or chances are you score.

I don't see anything "unbecoming" about it at all.

If the defending team win the ball, you're obviously in trouble. If they can sack the lineout in time, then you'll probably either have to try and start a new maul, or just pick & drive until the backline can form again properly. So it's not going to be Plan A for every lineout in the 22.

accidentprone1

tolosenc wrote: »

I like the play where Devin Toner sat down and reached over the line.

Link?

Gordon Gecko

sydthebeat wrote: »

i think every youths team has a play like this.

our youths set up the eight forwards in a wall..... and the ball never goes beyond the first receiver... yet the backs fan out like its going to the end of the wall

Yeah brings back fond memories of u14s and Juniors rugby that kind of play!

roycon

twinytwo wrote: »

I for one hope, they bring in a law to prevent crap like this.. if your going to take a beating, take it like a man.... A lineout like that just smacks of desperation, the sort of thing you see at underage. Very unbecomming of professional athletes.

I mean what not just do it for every lineout in the 22, they either have to match you or chances are you score.

Most of the "old tricks" have been outlawed.... for example putting you lineout under the posts for long range shots at goal and catching the ball before it goes over.

i'd prefer to win the game than look professsional. they tried and suceeded to mix thing up when they were losing by 30 points. they completely rattled new zealand and scored of it. surely this is the perfect time to take a few risks

Gordon Gecko

Come to think of it I remember reading that the All Blacks one year reverted to 3-man scrums one year as the Lions had a far better scrum than them and it paid off.

Also would love to see flankers being allowed to break No.8 style from scrums again.

EpiphoneSpecial

for some reason, i have a memory of this happening (maybe done by Scotland, but could be wrong)
also i think it being referred to as the gallipoli movement

Thud

funny how both no 14's in the Ireland and Wales 13 man lineout have the same idea of how to maul

not a trick play but loved this backs move:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iogYJpI2CcU#t=46m50s
ariel view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY6ACX7RSJ4

molloyjh

accidentprone1 wrote: »

Link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A5Q2s8ysm4#t=4m33s

Webbs

I think Wales had planned to use this move the first opportunity they got hence Priestlands attempted kicks to the corner trying to get every last yard early on in the game.

locum-motion

Thud wrote: »

...

not a trick play but loved this backs move:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iogYJpI2CcU#t=46m50s
...

That's a 48 minute clip. Wanna narrow it down for us?

locum-motion

molloyjh wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A5Q2s8ysm4#t=4m33s

4min 40sec in to this clip. I suppose it helps when your arms are 17'3"* long!



* Might be a slight exaggeration!

tolosenc

locum-motion wrote: »

4min 40sec in to this clip. I suppose it helps when your arms are 17'3"* long!



* Might be a slight exaggeration!

My memory was that he sat down outside the 22.

Someone must have doctored the video.

Podge_irl

tolosenc wrote: »

My memory was that he sat down outside the 22.

Outside his own 22 from what I recall.


He looks so amusingly like an adult playing with children in that clip.

locum-motion

Podge_irl wrote: »

Outside his own 22 from what I recall.


He looks so amusingly like an adult playing with children in that clip.

I met him last week. He's fcuking huge!!

Thud

locum-motion wrote: »

That's a 48 minute clip. Wanna narrow it down for us?

the clip should open at 46mins 50seconds just before the move

JustinDee

EpiphoneSpecial wrote: »

for some reason, i have a memory of this happening (maybe done by Scotland, but could be wrong)
also i think it being referred to as the gallipoli movement

Its a rugby league match in Sydney's Western junior leagues. Not legal these days anyway.

locum-motion

Thud wrote: »

the clip should open at 46mins 50seconds just before the move

Thanks. It didn't, at least not on my device.

But thanks anyway.

Funk It

City boy turned country wrote: »

After I seen this, I was thinking what could NZ do to stop this. Apart from put 13 men in themselves, could they have stepped back from the maul, not competed and then expect the referee to penalise Wales for the offside rule?

Yes, and they could also do this:

I have used it quiet a bit in games whereby we need to stop a team with a powerful maul near to our line. If you are ever going to use it in an amateur match I suggest that you clear it with the ref before the game.

I remember Connacht using it against Munster years ago in Thomand Park and got a penalty as well if I remember correctly.

With that said, it came back to haunt me in a league title decider in Scotland, when we retreated back only to see one of our props with his head stuck into the maul, making the whole point void and we gifted them a try.