Costing a project

HunniBear

Hi Guys.

I've an idea for a system, but I don't know how to get it costed...

That's probably the n00biest question going, but I don't want to give too much away on the idea to be honest.

ChRoMe

HunniBear wrote: »

Hi Guys.

I've an idea for a system, but I don't know how to get it costed...

That's probably the n00biest question going, but I don't want to give too much away on the idea to be honest.

Write a specification document, give it to some developers and ask them to quote for it........

HunniBear

ChRoMe wrote: »

Write a specification document, give it to some developers and ask them to quote for it........

And forgive me for being thick, but what's stopping them from offering too much.. or refusing to do it.. then just developing and selling it themselves, is there an automatic NDA, or...

Also, say you might need some input into the specifications doc, as to some of the technical elements, where would you go for this stuff?

ChRoMe

HunniBear wrote: »

And forgive me for being thick, but what's stopping them from offering too much.. or refusing to do it.. then just developing and selling it themselves, is there an automatic NDA, or...

Also, say you might need some input into the specifications doc, as to some of the technical elements, where would you go for this stuff?

Well you can get them to sign a NDA if you really want to. I wouldn't bother to be honest, the idea itself is worthless, its the execution of the idea that has value.

You can write the specification document without any technical knowledge (most people who write them dont have any), its good to include some wireframe pictures. Just generally a set of mock up interfaces to describe the flow of user actions in the application.

GreeBo

ChRoMe wrote: »

Well you can get them to sign a NDA if you really want to. I wouldn't bother to be honest, the idea itself is worthless, its the execution of the idea that has value.

You can write the specification document without any technical knowledge (most people who write them dont have any), its good to include some wireframe pictures. Just generally a set of mock up interfaces to describe the flow of user actions in the application.

I would disagree with the bolded part strongly.
The idea is the key, there are a million people who could implement the solution but it takes one person to have the killer idea.

If someone came to me with a business idea that I thought was valid I reckon that I (or myself and some friends) could have something implemented and to market before the business person got sorted.

ChRoMe

GreeBo wrote: »

I would disagree with the bolded part strongly.
The idea is the key, there are a million people who could implement the solution but it takes one person to have the killer idea.

If someone came to me with a business idea that I thought was valid I reckon that I (or myself and some friends) could have something implemented and to market before the business person got sorted.

Can you provide any example of such a situation. What I'm getting at is, the idea for Facebook, was a exclusive social network. The idea for Google was a smarter search engine. Neither of them were the first of their kind, its the fact they executed on the concept better than everyone else that gave them their success.

Also you cant implement something without the business model being correct/or at least proven in some regard. Well you could but the phrase "build it and they will come", doesn't apply to software.

Edit to add: I take this position as a developer who has had many many interactions with "idea guys". Their understanding of the realities of building a product and taking it to market are usually grossly off the mark. There is a well written article regarding this phenomena http://www.bubblefoundry.com/blog/2011/05/idea-guy-looking-for-developer/

GreeBo

ChRoMe wrote: »

Can you provide any example of such a situation. What I'm getting at is, the idea for Facebook, was a exclusive social network. The idea for Google was a smarter search engine. Neither of them were the first of their kind, its the fact they executed on the concept better than everyone else that gave them their success.

Also you cant implement something without the business model being correct/or at least proven in some regard. Well you could but the phrase "build it and they will come", doesn't apply to software.

Edit to add: I take this position as a developer who has had many many interactions with "idea guys". Their understanding of the realities of building a product and taking it to market are usually grossly off the mark. There is a well written article regarding this phenomena http://www.bubblefoundry.com/blog/2011/05/idea-guy-looking-for-developer/

Note that I am talking about a "good" idea, not just one that the business person thinks is a good idea.

I agree that business peoples thoughts about developers and bringing a product to market are often way off, they are often way off in established companies, forget about startups or ideas!

Also, Im not saying that you can get away with sloppy execution, if you try this then you will get swallowed up by someone with more money, doing it better, faster.

However, I wouldnt let an idea that I had get out into public without it being protected somehow. The guy in his basement *could* get his idea into reality while you are still storyboarding. Being the first to market with something that is protected also give you the opportunity to get bought out by one of the big guys, not just bypassed.

But at this stage perhaps the original topic of this thread is too far off in the distance?

SionnachRoe

OK, let's try it this way.

"I've an idea for a house but I don't know how to get it costed..."

"...it's a very cool house so I don't want to give people too many details about it..."

How much it is going to cost to build?


And truthfully, that is easier to cost than a 'system'. Construction is a mature industry with a set of industry wide codes that give a very solid idea of what needs to go into building a house in terms of labour and materials. Such and such floor area => this much concrete, that much rebar, this much whatever


At the 'vision thing' level of a system there are usually no hard edges and no strong feeling for exactly what needs to be included to produce a viable, marketable system. It is not costable. Not in any way that is useful.

I want a system to allow me to log into my home computer from anywhere..
and access the local network...
and transfer files to and from it...
and it has to work through a browser...
and a tablet... ipad, android, windows?
and a phone... iphone, android, windows?
and we need a web site to allow people to maintain their settings...
and...

With a preliminary spec showing the large functional blocks of system an initial guess can be made but that will be off by LOTS (depending on which figures one reads, we are talking about up to an order of magnitude).



Bottom line:

It is not possible to cost something without knowing what it is.
There is no such thing as 'standard system' which can be used as a baseline cost and even if there were, if the idea is truely new an innovative then such a standard system would not apply.

If you have no idea if an estimate is too much then offer the job to several and compare prices.

If you are worried about them stealing the idea... there are few ideas which are 1) totally unique, 2) so guaranteed to be a hit that they are worth stealing. Consultancy companies are unlikely to take an idea and build it on spec. Their business is building software for other people not making, selling, maintaining whatever the new system is.

ChRoMe

GreeBo wrote: »

Note that I am talking about a "good" idea, not just one that the business person thinks is a good idea.

I agree that business peoples thoughts about developers and bringing a product to market are often way off, they are often way off in established companies, forget about startups or ideas!

Also, Im not saying that you can get away with sloppy execution, if you try this then you will get swallowed up by someone with more money, doing it better, faster.

However, I wouldnt let an idea that I had get out into public without it being protected somehow. The guy in his basement *could* get his idea into reality while you are still storyboarding. Being the first to market with something that is protected also give you the opportunity to get bought out by one of the big guys, not just bypassed.

But at this stage perhaps the original topic of this thread is too far off in the distance?

A "good" idea, what metric do you use to validate if an idea is good or not?

Being first to market is completely over rated, someone knocking something together and deploying it wont win just because they were first.

Also, build something and then flip it in a cash out sale, is probably the worst possible business plan... ever.

You should really watch the talk David Heinemeier Hansson gave at start up school 08 on youtube. It touches on pretty much every single one of these points.

TonyStark

HunniBear wrote: »

Hi Guys.

I've an idea for a system, but I don't know how to get it costed...

That's probably the n00biest question going, but I don't want to give too much away on the idea to be honest.

Sell your idea to people with money. Get some VC and hire a dev team rather than engage with developers you feel you can't trust.

Else push out a tender document with a general idea of what's required. Get companies to tender with a view of to sign an NDA to go further in the tender process. If the project is worthwhile from a financial point of view then they'll move through the process.

If the idea is something you think could be accomplished in week or two then I think we know what the answer will be.

GreeBo

ChRoMe wrote: »

A "good" idea, what metric do you use to validate if an idea is good or not?

My analysis of it.
If Im going to invest in something I would investigate it first, same as any investment.

ChRoMe wrote: »

Being first to market is completely over rated, someone knocking something together and deploying it wont win just because they were first.

I already clearly stated that "knocking something together" is not the way to go.

ChRoMe wrote: »

Also, build something and then flip it in a cash out sale, is probably the worst possible business plan... ever.

I didnt advise this as a business plan.

Trojan

Worth a read:

http://blog.jpl-consulting.com/2012/04/why-i-wont-sign-your-nda/

ChRoMe

Trojan wrote: »

Worth a read:

http://blog.jpl-consulting.com/2012/04/why-i-wont-sign-your-nda/

Exactly...