Budget 2013 - Vintage Tax

Testacalda

I'm more of a lurker around here than a contributer , but I do visit this forum regularly as I have a keen interest in vinatage and classic stuff



I am just curious for opinions and was wondering has anyone heard any 'leaked' rumors or info about what will happen with motor tax and or VRT for classics in the forthcoming budget, its only a few weeks away.

1. I haven't heard anything credible as yet, just the usual predictions that come out at this time of year

2. What do you think the future is for the 'vintage' tax system as it is, will it keep rolling on at the 30 year concession for much longer.

3. Each year it rolls on, the cars that qualify get more driver friendly for everyday use, which isn't really what the concession is for. Obviously if the high tax concession was seen to be abused it could jeopardize the system, but does anyone think this would ever become an issue?

4. If there was to be a system change, what do you think it would be?, perhaps to stop the 30 year rolling concession, and leave the newer classics for ever in the existing high tax bracket. I would imagine the government could never take the concessions for vehicles which currently have them though.

5. If there was an increase in the price of road tax, which there will inevitably be, and people will inevitably give out about it, would it actually effect the scene and the enthusiast much. A buddy said to me the other day that even if there was a 100% increase in 'vintage tax, (to €104 I suppose that would be), he wouldn't mind too much as it was still a generous concession for him to drive his old Jaguar, he has a point

6. What do you think the consequences of stopping our concession would actually be. Decrease in people interested in modern classics I suppose, Increase in others trying to 'get around' the system

I just want to get some thoughts on what might / will happen this year and the matter in general, as it seems to be discussed randomly off topic on various other threads as and when the issue surfaces.

I know the 'Vintage' tax, the NCT ing of post 79's, Rust or Rot and Petrol consumption seem to be the hot topics in the Irish vintage and classic scene

kev1.3s

Never listen to any of the historonics surrounding the budget same **** every year. My car is 1970 and I don't have much interest in 80's and 90's cars but what could be suggested is maybe a weekend tax or even a five day tax if you wanted.

carchaeologist

This same discussion happens here every year.

If something is gonna go down not much can be done about it at this stage.
It's pretty much a given that the tax will go up though!!

Dades

I'm not a religious guy - but if you're up there Superman - my '83 just needs to survive more budget. :pac:

unkel

Dades wrote: »

I'm not a religious guy - but if you're up there Superman - my '83 just needs to survive more budget. :pac:

€660 €52 :cool:

I'm 3 years behind ya

hi5

I predict 5% increase again this year, rounding it up to about €55:).
The government are really only interested in the post 2008 system and squeezing more out of the new '50 grand diesel beemer' guys.
Anyway classic cars only account for 1% of registrations.

corktina

i think we should keep our heads down for fear of giving the blighters ideas...

oceanman

i would be very surprised if they touch the tax, the vintage car market is so small in this country that even if they double it to 100euro ect, it would still only bring in a pittance! they have much bigger fish to fry....avarage joe and jane in there avarage saloon and hatchback... now thats where the real money is.

shawnee

corktina wrote: »

i think we should keep our heads down for fear of giving the blighters ideas...

Agree very much, same every year , drawing attention to the concession (which after all is for a very small number of cars) Most days of the week I travel and never meet a vintage , occasionaly at weekends in town but usually at shows etc If it ain't broke etc etc

bbsrs

Even if they raised it by 50% what can you do ? Would €77 a year stop make you get rid of your classic? Unless they're going to abolish vintage tax it's not really worth worrying or talking about.

Bigus

bbsrs wrote: »

Even if they raised it by 50% what can you do ? Would €77 a year stop make you get rid of your classic? Unless they're going to abolish vintage tax it's not really worth worrying or talking about.

What if you had 10 of them that come out at different times,of the year.:eek:

There's a good chance the gov would lose money if they increased vintage tax because they are probably getting a good rate as is now per day used by most classics.

If it went up a lot I could see more trailers being bought and classics never being used on the road, with subsequent fall in revenue collected.

tc20

my W123 just qualified recently for its first vintage disc woohoo :cool:

big drop from €1200+ to €52 p/a, happy days

bbsrs

Bigus wrote: »

What if you had 10 of them that come out at different times,of the year.:eek:

There's a good chance the gov would lose money if they increased vintage tax because they are probably getting a good rate as is now per day used by most classics.

If it went up a lot I could see more trailers being bought and classics never being used on the road, with subsequent fall in revenue collected.

If you can afford 10 road worthy classics a 50% rise in road tax shouldn't be a big issue ,or you could also just swop the plates and tax disc around between all 10 as number plates seem to be interchanged at will these days

salysol

unkel wrote: »

€660 €52 :cool:

I'm 3 years behind ya

Just some thing i heard during the year,i'm sure some of you may have heard it too.
Apparently they are thinking of bringing all cars registered after 1st jan 1980,into line with regular car tax rates,as you already have to N C T any car after that date,this will just be another kick in the ass,resulting in less vintage cars on the road.

superfly35

that is a bit I hope they will not do to be honest!!

As I would be able to afford my car then!!!

Kenny Logins

salysol wrote: »

Just some thing i heard during the year,i'm sure some of you may have heard it too.
Apparently they are thinking of bringing all cars registered after 1st jan 1980,into line with regular car tax rates,as you already have to N C T any car after that date,this will just be another kick in the ass,resulting in less vintage cars on the road.

They can't increase taxes like that, they could stop the thirty year rolling vin/vet class though, as they did in UK.

hi5

I've been hearing this since about 2005 :rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75719588

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78908825

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59397304

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54416096

salysol

Kenny Logins wrote: »

They can't increase taxes like that, they could stop the thirty year rolling vin/vet class though, as they did in UK.

They can do what they want or so it seems, i was only told this ,so it could just be a load of waffle.
I think the main hike in this budget will be aimed at the so called green cars,being brought into line with the engine capacity tax,which in my view is a very dirty trick,based on false promises.
The motor industry will come to a stand still over night and new car sales will be a thing of the past.
So perhaps we will have to get the old push bike out of storage, think of the revenue that will be lost then ?.

homingbird

Hi if they are going to abolish vintage tax it might only be for cars not fitted with cat. converter pre 92 cars as cat converters only came in 93 on . I have a 89 bmw & it doesn't have one so is not tested for Emissions.

boatbuilder

What is the situation at the moment anyway? I've been kinda out of the loop on it since I sold my last classic a few years ago.
I have an 84 VW Transporter (registered as van with side windows) undergoing a resto at the moment. As it stands at the moment, whats the situation re: tax and NCT/DOE?

w124man

I'm guessing at this one

If its a van then you have to pay commercial tax if you are VAT registered, if not, then its cc based private tax
The old loophole of a privately owned commercial not needing an NCT is gone. Now it depends on the tax class DOE for commercial and NCT for private.

superfly35

- If the VW is a camper you need camper van tax about €100, and DOE as a camper, need doing every year.
- If the VW is a van you need van tax about €350, and DOE as a van and need doing every year.

hope it helps.

Basil Fawlty

Nothing will happen to the vintage tax rate. All your doing is picking ideas out of the sky. In 2010 there were 2,421,638 cars taxed on Irish roads. Out of that figure 24,368 were Vintage/veteran. Given that those figures will have barely changed since, how do you figure a tax increase or change would make any viable financial difference?

*Figures from CSO

salysol

ciarancapri wrote: »

Nothing will happen to the vintage tax rate. All your doing is picking ideas out of the sky. In 2010 there were 2,421,638 cars taxed on Irish roads. Out of that figure 24,368 were Vintage/veteran. Given that those figures will have barely changed since, how do you figure a tax increase or change would make any viable financial difference?

*Figures from CSO

I don't figure anything,it was merely a question,based on a conversation i had.

Dades

ciarancapri wrote: »

Out of that figure 24,368 were Vintage/veteran. Given that those figures will have barely changed since, how do you figure a tax increase or change would make any viable financial difference?

I guess it could seen as shoring up leaking future revenue. But, yeah, since there's no immediate or medium term financial gain to be had then I'm sure the government don't want an unnecessary fight on their hands.

They'll have their hands full already with homeowners, motorists, welfare recipients, parents, drinkers, smokers, pensioners, the sick, the poor, the wealthy and the middle class - all getting shafted again. :pac:

galwaytt

Dades wrote: »

...They'll have their hands full already with homeowners, motorists, welfare recipients, parents, drinkers, smokers, pensioners, the sick, the poor, the wealthy and the middle class - all getting shafted again. :pac:

...actually, I think that's half the problem: they're not getting any flak worth talking about, compared to the other countries in the sh!tter.

Despite the fact that both property tax and motor taxes affect the vast majority of people on the island, protests have been few and far between, and many of those poorly attended.

They're only laughing at us tbh.

bbsrs

galwaytt wrote: »

...actually, I think that's half the problem: they're not getting any flak worth talking about, compared to the other countries in the sh!tter.

Despite the fact that both property tax and motor taxes affect the vast majority of people on the island, protests have been few and far between, and many of those poorly attended.

They're only laughing at us tbh.

The powers that be like to divide and conquer.
They have public sector v private sector
The employed v the social welfare recipients.
The urban v the rural
While all these disagreements are going on the people can't get together against the gov policy.
Then you have the unions leaders who historically organised protests seem to be happy with the deal they have ,CPA . I'm alright jack .
The students only protest if their fees are going to increase .
The pensioners are basically untouched since their last protest so they're alright.
Though all people have a common interest in getting a better deal for the citizens of this country rather than the financial system they can't see the common bond because they're too busy fighting their own corners.
That's the way the politicians like it.

Sam Russell

bbsrs wrote: »

That's the way the politicians like it.

I note from your list a total absence of the said politicians. The cost of the Oireachtais is north of 200 million euros. That would pay the dole for 20,000 citzens.

No wonder they like it. Big wages. Bigger expenses. Free ink cartridges. Free mobiles every year, even if they use forged receipts. Free iPads. Huge pensions. Cannot be sacked, even if they fiddle their taxes.

You cannot beat it.

MrFoxman360

I'm at work so cant listen to the budget news or find it online, any change on the vintage motor tax?

Dades

Just heard him talk about the motor tax system. Didn't go into details - though I hardly expected him to mention classics! He just said all brackets would see increases.

Fingers crossed.

Kenny Logins

MrFoxman360 wrote: »

I'm at work so cant listen to the budget news or find it online, any change on the vintage motor tax?

http://www.thejournal.ie/budget-2013-live-702350-Dec2012/

Dades

^^ No mention of vintage tax anywhere.

Won't see anything until the full budget measures are released in a document.
Any remember when this normally happens?

Kenny Logins

http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Documents/Annex%20C%20-%20VRT%20and%20Motor%20Tax.pdf

+ €4 to €56.

Dades

Just arrived to post that link!

Looks like we're safe for another year.... phew.
Any change to the rolling 30 years would surely be mentioned here, no?

I can live with the €4 increase given the €654 drop I'll see in 2013.

MrFoxman360

Kenny Logins wrote: »

http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Documents/Annex%20C%20-%20VRT%20and%20Motor%20Tax.pdf

+ €4 to €56.

Thats great, lots of nice 1983 cars out there, they can now be enjoyed without punitive tax

w124man

Well that's another €104 per annum to tax my W126 300SE and €66 to tax my W124 E220 .......

Basil Fawlty

Told you so!

alo1587

Kenny Logins wrote: »

http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Documents/Annex%20C%20-%20VRT%20and%20Motor%20Tax.pdf

+ €4 to €56.

Phew! Now to find another classic

unkel

hi5 wrote: »

I predict 5% increase again this year, rounding it up to about €55:)

Very close! The cigar goes to hi5

Sam Russell

Why do they increase a rate that is a concession. It cannot make any difference to the overall tax take, and by keeping it low, they could claim to be encouraging the vintage scene and so creating 'jobs'.

If there was a worse way of running the country, they would have found it by now.