Cutting to tournament weight without losing muscle or strength?

jigglypuffstuff

Hi guys just a quick question regarding cutting weight for a tournament (for fighting obv). Im looking to go down from 73.5kg to just under 70, Ive built some good strength and put some size over the last 2 months and would wish not to lose it (strength) so I was wondering what would be best for this. Im currently doing a 5 day split with 2 days cardio but i know the lifts might suffer slightly when cutting. I was looking at this program

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/26-doug--s-6-day-cutting-routine.html

Or

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/20-6-day-weight-cardio-cutting-workout.html

My main question is hitting each muscle group twice a week a little much? ill be adding cardio as well. Or would the 2nd one be more geared towards my goals? Advice welcome as ive plyometrics to include here also. Thanks

danlen

If your training for an upcoming fight, weight training 5x/week is crazy imo. Nearly all your emphasis should be on technical work and sparring I would think, with perhaps some extra conditioning depending on current level, recovery, and available time.

In regards to cutting weight. If you are referring to actual weight cutting (days pre-weigh in), then your coach should be helping you with this. You are not going to lose any significant strength/muscle in a few days, provided you do the cut correctly.

If you are referring to just losing some body fat over the next few weeks before a fight, then eating adequate protein and ensuring your calorie deficit is not too large, then that will help minimise strength losses.

Hanley

How long have you got between weigh in and fight? What sport?

Mellor

Hanley wrote: »

How long have you got between weigh in and fight? What sport?

+1 to this,

and also; What weight are you now and what weight do you have to make on the day.

jigglypuffstuff

Hanley wrote: »

How long have you got between weigh in and fight? What sport?

I wont be fighting until the first week in march. Its full contact martial arts.

Mellor wrote: »

+1 to this,

and also; What weight are you now and what weight do you have to make on the day.

I am currently between 73kg and 73.5kg depending on the day. I will have to make 69kg on the day


Thanks guys advice would be appreciated!!

Clive

pone2012, when is the weigh-in in relation to the bout? Do you weigh in on Friday afternoon for a Saturday night bout, is it the morning of the bout or right before the bout?

Mellor

pone2012 wrote: »

I wont be fighting until the first week in march. Its full contact martial arts.

You misunderstood what he was getting at. How long between weigh in and fight not now and fight.
If weigh in was the day before you could make weight this weekend. If its the same day weigh-in you'll need to be walking around close to 69kg

jigglypuffstuff

Im pretty sure that the weigh in is on the day. I'd hazard a guess that its better to lose it slower??

Will Heffernan

pone2012 wrote: »

Im pretty sure that the weigh in is on the day. I'd hazard a guess that its better to lose it slower??

If the weigh in is on the day and you are inexperienced enough to be asking this question here on boards then you should be doing absolutely everything in your power to ensure that you pretty much make weight on the day eating an ice cream and not even contemplate 'cutting weight' for your fight.

jigglypuffstuff

Will Heffernan wrote: »

If the weigh in is on the day and you are inexperienced enough to be asking this question here on boards then you should be doing absolutely everything in your power to ensure that you pretty much make weight on the day eating an ice cream and not even contemplate 'cutting weight' for your fight.

Inexperienced?? ive gained and lost before and ive been training in martial arts 9 years and in the gym solid for the last 2 years. I just know there are some on here that can give me some sound advice with regards to cutting without losing serious strength, after all no matter how much you know theres always someone that knows better!!! I have no idea what you mean by eating ice-cream wither

Will Heffernan

pone2012 wrote: »

Inexperienced??

Yes. The two programs you've picked could not actually be more inappropriate for martial arts or fighting of any kind. The mere fact that you've posted them led me to believe that you have no idea what so ever about what you are doing.

ive gained and lost before and ive been training in martial arts 9 years and in the gym solid for the last 2 years. I just know there are some on here that can give me some sound advice with regards to cutting without losing serious strength, after all no matter how much you know theres always someone that knows better!!!

Fine. The amount that you are talking about is relatively insignificant. The fact that you've 4 months to make it and that you don't even know whether its a 'morning weigh in' or a 'mat weigh in' or a day before weigh in was another of the factors than led me to believe you were inexperienced and had no idea what you were doing.
If it is a mat weigh in then you want to make sure you are walking around at 69kg the week of your fight and simply modifying your diet should achieve that unless you are already at Bruce Lee like levels of adiposity. If its a morning of weigh in then you can probably just do a water cut via superhydration and make weight then rehydrate afterwards. If you've 24 hrs then you can just superhydrate and water cut then rehydrate afterwards and not have a bother. The only one of the 3 choices with any real risk is the morning of weigh in but even that is pretty straightforward assuming you have everything you need to replenish and do a couple of test runs in training in the months you have before you fight.

I have no idea what you mean by eating ice-cream wither

I meant the simplest and safest thing to do for someone that doesn't know what they are doing is to just work towards ensuring you are at weight well prior to competition.

Clive

Okay for a same day weigh in (assuming there's not a huge gap between weigh-in and bout) you need to diet down from 73.5 kilos to 69 between now and the start of March. So the big question is, what's your body composition like? How much fat do you have to lose?

jigglypuffstuff

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Yes. The two programs you've picked could not actually be more inappropriate for martial arts or fighting of any kind. The mere fact that you've posted them led me to believe that you have no idea what so ever about what you are doing.


Fine. The amount that you are talking about is relatively insignificant. The fact that you've 4 months to make it and that you don't even know whether its a 'morning weigh in' or a 'mat weigh in' or a day before weigh in was another of the factors than led me to believe you were inexperienced and had no idea what you were doing.
If it is a mat weigh in then you want to make sure you are walking around at 69kg the week of your fight and simply modifying your diet should achieve that unless you are already at Bruce Lee like levels of adiposity. If its a morning of weigh in then you can probably just do a water cut via superhydration and make weight then rehydrate afterwards. If you've 24 hrs then you can just superhydrate and water cut then rehydrate afterwards and not have a bother. The only one of the 3 choices with any real risk is the morning of weigh in but even that is pretty straightforward assuming you have everything you need to replenish and do a couple of test runs in training in the months you have before you fight.


I meant the simplest and safest thing to do for someone that doesn't know what they are doing is to just work towards ensuring you are at weight well prior to competition.

The programs are actually posted to hold onto the muscle that ive built. there not a part of the martial arts training. the sparring cardio and plyometrics I will be doing on the 3 days im not lifting however are. And ill want to be walking around at 69kg just to clarify. I understand what you mean now and thats what i want to do starting now will make it less tedious.

Clive wrote: »

Okay for a same day weigh in (assuming there's not a huge gap between weigh-in and bout) you need to diet down from 73.5 kilos to 69 between now and the start of March. So the big question is, what's your body composition like? How much fat do you have to lose?

Im in very good shape very visible abs am carrying some fat around the waist however...id harzard a guess at 10% bf maybe 11%. yeah the plan was to diet down to weight.

Mellor

pone2012 wrote: »

Inexperienced?? ive gained and lost before and ive been training in martial arts 9 years and in the gym solid for the last 2 years...

I think the inexperienced was aimed at the fact that you didn't know when the weigh in was. it sounded like you hadn't competed before.
Maybe you just weren't aware that different sports have different weigh-in arrangements which affects what you need to do.

If you are actually 10% body fat, then you have very little chance of getting to 69kg without dropping muscle mass. To do that you'd need to be getting close to 4% body fat.
But don't worry, you probably are higher than 10%, which makes dropping fat, and retaining muscle/strength easier.