What do you do in this situation?:

Indricotherium

You're driving to limerick on the motorway.

You left in plenty of time and are in no rush, so to save fuel you are driving at around 100K/H. The limit on the road is 120K/H.

The road is a two lane dual carriageway and you are driving in the left most lane (lane 1).

A car approaches you from behind in lane 2, overtakes you, drives about 100 metres past you and then decelerates to 85-90K/H, the car remains in lane 2.

Should you;

A) continue driving at a steady speed and undertake the other car.

move to lane 2, drive behind the other car until it moves to lane 1 overtake it and continue on your way.

C) remain in lane 1 and slow down to match the other cars speed.

Assuming that should you take option B the other car will not yield the the overtaking lane, or if you take option A or C the car repeatedly overtakes you and slows down what should you do?

vibe666

do i have any weapons in the car? :pac:

CiniO

I would take option 2, and if car wouldn't move, I'd use flash.

Stereomaniac

A.

newmug

A. If he breaks the law by hogging the overtaking lane, fcuk him. YOU'RE not doing anything wrong.

CiniO

newmug wrote: »

A. If he breaks the law by hogging the overtaking lane, fcuk him. YOU'RE not doing anything wrong.

By doing so, you are breaking the law.

Indricotherium

Stereomaniac wrote: »

A.

You take option A.

Blue lights flash from the red mondeo zetec with no tax and four aerials, driving behind you. You pull in, a Garda approaches you and asks;

"Do you know why I've stopped you?"

What now?

_Kaiser_

2nd option - move out behind them, flash to wake them up and then flick the right indicator. 9 times out of 10 this gets the point across.

If they decide to play silly "racing" games or making life awkward when you (having subsequently moved back to lane 1 after overtaking them) both come up behind Car 3 in lane 1, then I find the "mine's bigger and I'm more willing to use it" response as you zip past them a 2nd time tends to make them give up the game.

_Kaiser_

Indricotherium wrote: »

You take option A.

Blue lights flash from the red mondeo zetec with no tax and four aerials, driving behind you. You pull in, a Garda approaches you and asks;

"Do you know why I've stopped you?"

What now?

Sure..

"Well tell me first what you're doing playing silly games in the outside lane first, and why you didn't move back in after overtaking me?"

Too many people in this country (and this forum) have this impression that the Gardai are above reproach.

If he then got shirty I'd be taking his details and ringing his station/boss on the bluetooth kit.. done it before with that sort.

(EDIT: This assumes the car now behind you is the one you undertook - although if the unmarked car is a 3rd car, then you could also ask why they didn't take action against the idiot who caused the problem in the first place with his erratic driving)

Lingua Franca

Indricotherium wrote: »

You take option A.

Blue lights flash from the red mondeo zetec with no tax and four aerials, driving behind you. You pull in, a Garda approaches you and asks;

"Do you know why I've stopped you?"

What now?

"Because you didn't see the other driver driving erractically?"

CiniO

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

2nd option - move out behind them, flash to wake them up and then flick the right indicator. 9 times out of 10 this gets the point across.

I'd say even more than 9 out of 10 will work like that.

However every second time you flash someone hogging the overtaking lane on motorway in Ireland, while they move they show you the middle finger.
I can't get it why people treat this flash offensive, while in other countries in EU usually after flashing somone you might see a person rising a hand to say I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was someone behind me.

Bruthal

CiniO wrote: »

By doing so, you are breaking the law.

So is driving at 121 kph, but I can live with it.

_Kaiser_

CiniO wrote: »

I'd say even more than 9 out of 10 will work like that.

However every second time you flash someone hogging the overtaking lane on motorway in Ireland, while they move they show you the middle finger.
I can't get it why people treat this flash offensive, while in other countries in EU usually after flashing somone you might see a person rising a hand to say I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was someone behind me.

Ah see once they move I continue on past and don't even give them a glance - unless they were being a dope about it or something, in which case a sustained blast of the horn to express my dissatisfaction.

EDIT (again): I will also wait a few seconds before getting their attention to let them move over on their own.

Kenny Logins

A

CiniO

robbie7730 wrote: »

So is driving at 121 kph, but I can live with it.

Fair enough

T-Maxx

a

TestTransmission

CiniO wrote: »

However every second time you flash someone hogging the overtaking lane on motorway in Ireland, while they move they show you the middle finger.

I got this response yesterday, made me lol. :P

loobylou

D). Remain in lane 1, match his speed and pretty soon there'll be plenty of others to flash him for you.

monkeypants

I can see why A is wrong and how C would be daft, but I'm unsure what I would be overtaking in B.

CiniO

loobylou wrote: »

D). Remain in lane 1, match his speed and pretty soon there'll be plenty of others to flash him for you.

Why would you want to leave the best part for someone else???

guttenberg

A, although it would hardly be undertaking if your keeping a steady pace and not changing lanes.

CiniO

guttenberg wrote: »

A, although it would hardly be undertaking if your keeping a steady pace and not changing lanes.

Undertaking is just a slang name.

Overtaking on left - is described in road traffic law and prohibited.
And option A would be exactly this - overtaking on left.
Keeping steady pace and not changing lanes doesn't really matter here.

guttenberg

So I'm driving along at 120 in lane 1, I catch up to someone going slower in lane 2, I must drop my speed and not go past this car because they are going slower? BS!

Lingua Franca

Driving erratically is also described in road traffic law and prohibited. Driving erratically to match an erracic driver seems stupider to me than continuing on my way, and I'd be very curious as to why the gard stopped me and not the guy going slow in the overtaking lane. I'd like a gard's perspective on this, are we really expected to match an erratic driver simply to avoid overtaking on the left?

Chimaera

guttenberg wrote: »

A, although it would hardly be undertaking if your keeping a steady pace and not changing lanes.

The only time this is legitimate under road traffic law is when traffic is queued up in both lanes.

If it were me in this situation, I'd probably move back out behind him and flash him.

CiniO

guttenberg wrote: »

So I'm driving along at 120 in lane 1, I catch up to someone going slower in lane 2, I must drop my speed and not go past this car because they are going slower? BS!

Normally situation when someone is going slower in lane 2 should happen only at traffic jams, and then you are allowed to drive faster on lane 1.

But at normal pace of traffic at around 100 - 120km/h situation when lane 2 goes slower than lane 1 should happen only really in emergency and you are indeed required to drop your speed.

fergiesfolly

In fairness, what are the chances you're going to be done for undertaking, if your under the speed limit, havn't increased your speed to pass the other car and arn't driving erratically? I know its the law, but would a Garda really pull you for it?
I'm A, but I'd be damn sure I was nowhere near the speed limit.
By the way, what legal territory are you in, when you flash the driver in front?
Is it a definate no no?

Lingua Franca

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

What to do when somebody overtakes you

Continue at the same pace.


There's also rules against causing other drivers to brake.

guttenberg

CiniO wrote: »

Normally situation when someone is going slower in lane 2 should happen only at traffic jams, and then you are allowed to drive faster on lane 1.

But at normal pace of traffic at around 100 - 120km/h situation when lane 2 goes slower than lane 1 should happen only really in emergency and you are indeed required to drop your speed.

I'm not sure you know what overtaking/undertaking means? Overtaking is moving from your lane, to the lane to the right to pass a car in front of you before returning back to the same lane. Undertaking is the same only using the lane on the left. In the situation described by the OP, you wouldn't be undertaking as you are not changing lanes to progress ahead of the other car.

Chris_Heilong

deja vu....

TestTransmission

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

I would take option D)
Call the RA and ask them to pull over, then carry on texting.
Its probably just dissidents out looking for another Prison Officer..

Don't post crap like that in here again

Chimaera

fergiesfolly wrote: »

In fairness, what are the chances you're going to be done for undertaking, if your under the speed limit, havn't increased your speed to pass the other car and arn't driving erratically? I know its the law, but would a Garda really pull you for it?
I'm A, but I'd be damn sure I was nowhere near the speed limit.
By the way, what legal territory are you in, when you flash the driver in front?
Is it a definate no no?

It's a manouevre the other driver is not likely to be expecting so they could pull over on top of you with no warning. I prefer not to take the risk.

I would think that a headlight flash is a valid signal to the other driver that you are waiting to overtake. The ROTR page on motorway driving mentions using the right indicator to indicate that you are waiting to overtake: http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

Chimaera

guttenberg wrote: »

I'm not sure you know what overtaking/undertaking means? Overtaking is moving from your lane, to the lane to the right to pass a car in front of you before returning back to the same lane. Undertaking is the same only using the lane on the left. In the situation described by the OP, you wouldn't be undertaking as you are not changing lanes to progress ahead of the other car.

Read the linked page from the ROTR a few posts up: it describes the manoeuvre as overtaking on the left.

3GAINSBOROUGH

TestTransmission wrote: »

Don't post crap like that in here again

Lighten up. It was a joke man. Don't take life so seriously.

Indricotherium

Chimaera wrote: »

Read the linked page from the ROTR a few posts up: it describes the manoeuvre as overtaking on the left.

Is it overtaking if the change in the two cars positions is caused by a downward change in the speed of the leading car.

TestTransmission

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

Lighten up. It was a joke man. Don't take life so seriously.

It's a joke that's not welcome here.
Don't question a mods decision on thread either.It serves no purpose.

3GAINSBOROUGH

TestTransmission wrote: »

It's a joke that's not welcome here.
Don't question a mods decision on thread either.It serves no purpose.

What's wrong with you man?
On a power trip is it?
Or just a sense of humour failure?
Either way you are showing yourself up not me.
Here is some advice, don't take life too seriously. You might not be living that long the way you are going on.

Chimaera

Indricotherium wrote: »

Is it overtaking if the change in the two cars positions is caused by a downward change in the speed of the leading car.

How else would you interpret it?

Indricotherium

Chimaera wrote: »

How else would you interpret it?

Could it be interpreted differently I mean.

Our man in Havana

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

What's wrong with you man?
On a power trip is it?
Or just a sense of humour failure?
Either way you are showing yourself up not me.
Here is some advice, don't take life too seriously. You might not be living that long the way you are going on.

Take a week off to think about it.

guttenberg

Chimaera wrote: »

Read the linked page from the ROTR a few posts up: it describes the manoeuvre as overtaking on the left.

Opening paragraph:

Only overtake if it is safe for you and other traffic. Be particularly careful of features that may hinder your view of the road ahead, such as hills, dips, bends, bridges, roads narrowing or pedestrian crossings. Pay attention to the rules on road signs or markings (continuous, broken, single, double white lines) covered in the Traffic signs and road markings section.

Both highlighted parts imply a lane change is part of the manoeuvre, no? 1) be careful that there is no oncoming traffic before you complete the manoerve 2) make sure road markings permit changing lanes to overtake?

CiniO

guttenberg wrote: »

I'm not sure you know what overtaking/undertaking means? Overtaking is moving from your lane, to the lane to the right to pass a car in front of you before returning back to the same lane. Undertaking is the same only using the lane on the left.

Are these your definitions, or did you find them somewhere?
If you found them, let us know the source.
If they are yours - so excuse us, but we can't accept is as valid definition.

In the situation described by the OP, you wouldn't be undertaking as you are not changing lanes to progress ahead of the other car.

Assuming your definitions are correct, while they aren't.

CiniO

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

deja vu....

I've got the same feeling.

fergiesfolly

Chimaera wrote: »

It's a manouevre the other driver is not likely to be expecting so they could pull over on top of you with no warning. I prefer not to take the risk.

I would think that a headlight flash is a valid signal to the other driver that you are waiting to overtake. The ROTR page on motorway driving mentions using the right indicator to indicate that you are waiting to overtake: http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

Would that not mean to use the right indicator to indicate you're waiting to overtake by changing lanes.
In the instance the op is talking about, you're not changing lanes, but travelling behind a car in the same lane, waiting for him to move aside.
Also, from the ROTR;
Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are. If you intend to move from a slower lane to a faster lane, adjust your speed first.

Does that not give you some leeway in "undertaking" as long as you use the guidelines I outlined in my first post.

CiniO

OK - that's what I found.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html

" overtaking " includes passing out, and cognate words shall be construed accordingly ;

Definition of "pass" - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pass+out

1. To move on or ahead; proceed.
3.
a. To move by: The band passed and the crowd cheered.
b. To move past another vehicle: The sports car passed on the right.
4. To gain passage despite obstacles: pass through difficult years.

I'm not sure if I understand it right, but my undestanding is that this definition tell us that to overtake, you don't need to change lanes or increase speed. Anytime you were behind some other vehicle and now you are in front of it, means you overtook.


Am I right?

guttenberg

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a17

Overtaking

19.—(1) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.


(2) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) unless he can clearly see a portion of the roadway which—


(a) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and


(b) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.


(3) A driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.


(4) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of this bye-law, a driver may overtake on the left—


(a) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled his intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,


(b) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to turn left at a road junction and has signalled this intention,


(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Section 3 would validate my opinion on lane changing is paramount to overtaking rather than simply passing another vehicle.

CiniO

guttenberg wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a17



Section 3 would validate my opinion on lane changing is paramount to overtaking rather than simply passing another vehicle.

Fact that overtaking might be accompanied by lane changing, doesn't mean it has to.

Tom Joad

Indricotherium wrote: »

You're driving to limerick on the motorway.

You left in plenty of time and are in no rush, so to save fuel you are driving at around 100K/H. The limit on the road is 120K/H.

The road is a two lane dual carriageway and you are driving in the left most lane (lane 1).

A car approaches you from behind in lane 2, overtakes you, drives about 100 metres past you and then decelerates to 85-90K/H, the car remains in lane 2.

Should you;

A) continue driving at a steady speed and undertake the other car.

move to lane 2, drive behind the other car until it moves to lane 1 overtake it and continue on your way.

C) remain in lane 1 and slow down to match the other cars speed.

Assuming that should you take option B the other car will not yield the the overtaking lane, or if you take option A or C the car repeatedly overtakes you and slows down what should you do?

Ok different motorway but was in this exact situation a few weeks back - I took option B, only it took an age for the car in front to move over into lane 1 plus I indicated a few times to see if the guy would pull over. Next thing I know I see flashing lights in my mirror (had just finished overtaking the lane hogger) and was thinking I was in for a lecture but the cop pulled in the guy who I had overtaken. IT was a long straight stretch and I could see as I drove away that the cop was on his way to give yer man a bollicking...

Restored my faith in the Gardaí to be honest

CiniO

OK so different situation which I had few months ago.
I drive from Dublin on M4.
I set my cruise control at 120km/h and I'm happily cruising (on driving lane). Small amount of traffic.
A big old transit van approaches me from behind, and is getting closer and closer (he must have been doing 125km/h maybe).
Eventually he drives as close as amount a metre to my bumper and stays there.
I waited for about a minute, but he doesn't show any intention of overtaking (even though overtaking lane is free).
I speed up to about 140 for a minute, and then back to 120 crusing speed. Few minutes later he is there again right on my a$$.
We approached toll gates, and he went straight behind me. I accelerated hard so I lost him, but few minutes later he was there again.
I got really annoyed and this time I accelerated to about 200km/h for few minutes, and eventually I lost him - didn't see him again...
But I wonder what's on mind of that kind of people?

Indricotherium

Tom Joad wrote: »

Ok different motorway but was in this exact situation a few weeks back - I took option B, only it took an age for the car in front to move over into lane 1 plus I indicated a few times to see if the guy would pull over. Next thing I know I see flashing lights in my mirror (had just finished overtaking the lane hogger) and was thinking I was in for a lecture but the cop pulled in the guy who I had overtaken. IT was a long straight stretch and I could see as I drove away that the cop was on his way to give yer man a bollicking...

Restored my faith in the Gardaí to be honest

It must have been a shocking long straight patch and you must not have been driving at motorway speed

Tom Joad

Indricotherium wrote: »

It must have been a shocking long straight patch and you must not have been driving at motorway speed

Should have explained that better - I had slowed right down assuming it was me getting pulled for the indicating to get yer man to pull over and was about to pull over into the hard shoulder. Motorway was very quiet too so I wasn't exactly bombing away from the scene and being a long straight I could see the cop getting out of the car and looking pissed - didn't hang around after that..