thoughts please

ed94

Hello everyone i will try to explain this situation as simple as possible and i am looking for advice and how you might react from a male & female perspective,thank you in advance.

Ok here goes,Adam (15) meets Eve (14), they start dating circa 1980 after approx 2 years Adams circumstances ( living rough for 6 months due to a violent homelife) have made him come to a decision to move to UK, jan 83(having previously lived there & has family there to stay with), obviously Eve is too young to go as well so they say they will write and hope to be back together again in the future.
Eve dates other people over the course of the 2 years that Adam is away in Uk, Adam dates a girl after 1 year in UK this relationship produces a child born late 84. (Eve is aware of this and has met both child & child's mother).
Adam and child and childs parent return to Ireland to try make a life here early 85, things don't work out and mother & child go back to uk within 3 months. soon after this Adam & Eve get back together again. childs mother contacts Adam and asks informs him she intends to get married and is going to change childs surname and wants no further contact subsequently moving and causing all contact to be lost. Adam & Eve meanwhile continue their relationship and eventually marry and have 2 other children and occasionally over the years efforts were made with the encouragement of Eve to try trace Adams other child without success.
Many years pass and lo & behold Adam finds his other child (the wonders of the internet) in 2010, having had no contact since 1985. so contact is made and they meet for (childs) first time in a nutshell the relationship between Adam & child is 100% happy both ways could not be better, one shock was Adam finds out he has 3 grandchildren under 10, major shock obviously.
anyway here in lies the issue, despite being encouraged to find child by Eve since this came to fruition the relationship between Adam & Eve has been strained as Eve wants nothing to do with Adams child or grandchildren as they are " F*ck all to do with me" & "they are not my blood" many arguments over this adam just wants to get on with it and build a natural relationship with child & grandchildren, but every visit causes massive friction between Adam & Eve.
Adam is of the opinion that Eve should welcome Child & grandchildren with open arms and should be able to deal with being in their presence at least and the fact that no matter what they are there and they are not going to go away.
Eve is of the opinion that she cannot stand to see grandchildren showing affection toward Adam and just does not want them to be any part of her life, to the extent she would prefer never to see nor hear from them.
Eve has met them and has spoke to them and child has been to Adam & Eves house and stayed and socialised but still there is a lot of anger from Eve toward the situation and also from Adam towards Eve based on how she has reacted to the whole situation.
the other siblings have met and bonded, however Adam feels this bond would be stronger but for the fact that the siblings have picked up on the negative feeling projected by Eve about the situation thus placing them in a situation where loyalty would play a part in their decisions (naturally).
This situation has put considerable strain on the relationship of Adam & Eve and has caused the most explosive and bitter arguments ever in their relationship. In the last 2 years since Adam found Child relationship between Adam & Eve has improved but nowhere near the level it was at prior to finding child.
is there any way forward in this matter, does anyone have any advice for Adam & Eve?
what they should do as individuals to deal with the situation to make life better for everyone?
please don't reply with any sarcastic or unhelpful comments, this is a very serious situation that needs to be resolved to everyones satisfaction.
Adam & Eve & their children still live in Ireland Adams child & grandchildren live in the UK.

curlzy

Hey OP,

Eve has every right to not want to play mother or grandmother to someone else's kids. Adam has a right to see his blood too. Answer: Adam should go to UK to visit them with whoever else wants to go and leave Eve out of it.

Best of luck.
Curlzy

emsie80

hmmmmm - eve does have every right not to play mother or grandmother and adam obviously has the right to want / have a relationship with his son and grandchildren. However, i think eve is been slightly jealous and childlike to be honest. If it were a case that eve never knew the child exsisted and there was some sort of cover up and web of lies, then she may have a reason not to want to have a relationship.
baby steps in situations like these ( we've had one like this in our family ). relationships need to be built and sometimes they dont come naturally to people. But the most important thing, from experience, is that you have to try

curlzy

emsie80 wrote: »

However, i think eve is been slightly jealous and childlike to be honest.

I completely agree, however that doens't change the fact that she's not obliged to be around them. It's not like she's stopping him from going, she doesn't want to be involved and that's up to her.

Personally I think I'd be the same in her position although for maybe different reasons. I've zero interest in children (IMO they're loud, irritating, attention-seeking, expensive, smelly, annoying, boring etc) and wouldn't want to be around someone elses for more than 5 minutes and that's up to me. I'd be well pissed if I had to be around a partner's kids, they had the unprotected sex why should I be saddles with entertaining kids? - would be what I'd be thinking.


*** Apologies to anyone who has kids, I'm sure yours are lovely and I'm not trying to offend, just being honest.

Lorna123

I would expect Eve to be responsive to the child Adam had years ago, and maybe once a year to the grandchildren, but I would not expect her to entertain them on a regular basis, like she would with any grandchildren Adam and Eve might have together. Three grandchildren who are not her grandchildren would be a bit much to handle. I think invite them over once a year, but not on an ongoing basis.

shalalala

Eve has always known about this other family. She knew what she was getting herself into when she married Adam. TBH I understand if she doesn't want to play mother or grandmother. But no one is asking her too. They already have a mother and grandmother, Adams Ex. I think that Eve is being selfish and although I know it is an awful situation to be in I think she needs to accept it and be civil.

Taltos

Op - we have left this thread open but we do need you to clarify how this is a relationship issue for you.

We need to ensure that all threads are directly relevant to the OP and if you are just trying to get a sense on behalf of a friend or relation we will have to close this thread.

Thanks
Taltos

ed94

First up let me thank you all for your replies.

curlzy wrote: »

Hey OP,
Eve has every right to not want to play mother or grandmother to someone else's kids. Adam has a right to see his blood too. Answer: Adam should go to UK to visit them with whoever else wants to go and leave Eve out of it.
Best of luck.
Curlzy

I agree that Eve should not have to play mother/grandmother, a lot of the arguments are because Adam wants to play father/grandfather but Eve sees this as inappropriate.

emsie80 wrote:

If it were a case that eve never knew the child exsisted and there was some sort of cover up and web of lies, then she may have a reason not to want to have a relationship.

Adam has raised this point, along with the point that Eve encouraged the search but Eve's attitude changed considerably when the search proved fruitful.

curlzy wrote:

It's not like she's stopping him from going

Not physically, but Adam going to visit always causes friction and ill feeling from Eve toward Adam often resulting in another argument.

Lorna123 wrote:

I would expect Eve to be responsive to the child Adam had years ago, and maybe once a year to the grandchildren, but I would not expect her to entertain them on a regular basis, like she would with any grandchildren Adam and Eve might have together. Three grandchildren who are not her grandchildren would be a bit much to handle. I think invite them over once a year, but not on an ongoing basis.

Adam totally agrees, the grandchildren have met Eve once for less than 2 hours at their house (obviously they are keen but that is because they are children,they would not understand what is going on,however their parent does realise what is going on and this is also having some strain on Adam, trying to "keep the peace" as such), the grandchildren have been in Adams house once but only when Eve was abroad.

shalalala wrote:

Eve has always known about this other family. She knew what she was getting herself into when she married Adam. TBH I understand if she doesn't want to play mother or grandmother. But no one is asking her too. They already have a mother and grandmother, Adams Ex. I think that Eve is being selfish and although I know it is an awful situation to be in I think she needs to accept it and be civil.

This is Adams opinion too.

Another can of worms now has been opened in that Adam suggested to Eve that he would like to spend A christmas day with child/grandchildren, obviously this would mean Adam not being with Eve or their children (both in their 20's) for that day for the first time in 25 years, what are your views on this situation please?

ed94

Taltos wrote: »

Op - we have left this thread open but we do need you to clarify how this is a relationship issue for you.

We need to ensure that all threads are directly relevant to the OP and if you are just trying to get a sense on behalf of a friend or relation we will have to close this thread.

Thanks
Taltos

PM sent to you.

shalalala

I think that first and foremost Adam needs to look after his relationship with his wife. Spend Christmas with his wife and their children and maybe travel to the UK to spend NYE with his other child and grandchildren? He needs to keep up with all of the things that he has done every year with his family.

movingsucks

Have Adam and Eve considered couples counselling?
There's an awful lot of issues here.

Taltos

Mod Note: Thanks ed94 for the clarification.

There is a few things about this situation OP.
Firstly as some of the others pointed out Eve has every right not to want to engage with Adam's first family if you will, as others have pointed out she is not biologically related to them.

However, her own children ARE.
Ideally Eve needs to all she can to encourage her own children to mix with their sibling and new relations, while at the same time keeping a respectful distance.
Note the word respectful here - it is clear that her behaviour is being driven by jealousy, and that is actually totally natural. At this stage though having first encouraged Adam (wonder if it was a test in her mind) she now needs to learn how to be supportive.

All Adam can do is reassure her, but he also needs to make it clear that these "people" are his family and while he was not there for them growing up he loves them just as much as his and Eve's children - would she be able to love any of her own children any more/less.

But to be honest OP - if Eve is so entrenched then I am not sure it will be easy for Adam to get through to her alone. Outside intervention / mediation / counselling / or their own children - might be the way to go. Eve has to see that her behaviour is effecting both Adam, his grandchildren and their own family. Unfortunately Adam can't force this.

Adam should try to do all he can to build that relationship but he needs to also do all he "reasonably" can to reassure Eve that he is fully committed to her and adores her with all his heart, but her actions and treatment of HIS children are hurting him so much it is driving him crazy with pain...

Maybe in seeing the real pain she is causing and the relationships she is damaging she might change her behaviour slightly but maybe they both need help in determining how much both of them need to change their expectations.

Lorna123

ed94 wrote: »

Another can of worms now has been opened in that Adam suggested to Eve that he would like to spend A christmas day with child/grandchildren, obviously this would mean Adam not being with Eve or their children (both in their 20's) for that day for the first time in 25 years, what are your views on this situation please?

I think myself that this is really rubbing salt into the wound OP. I would not do this unless Eve is totally in agreement with it and I don't think she will be. I think you are overstepping the mark here and asking for trouble.

ed94

Once again thank you for your responses.
Can I ask those who have or do respond if they are male or female?
of course you do not have to say, the reason i am asking is that Eve claims that no woman (other than Adams own mother/siblings) would take Adams side and that it is impossible for Adam or any man to understand her point of view and vice versa.

shalalala wrote: »

I think that first and foremost Adam needs to look after his relationship with his wife. Spend Christmas with his wife and their children and maybe travel to the UK to spend NYE with his other child and grandchildren? He needs to keep up with all of the things that he has done every year with his family.

Adam has tried everything (short of cutting child/grandchildren out of his life altogether) to pacify Eve,immediately after finding child Adam visited many times 6 times (child also visited 3 times in same year one of the times spent with Adam & Eve) in the 1st year, this caused furore with Eve suggesting it was too intense and not normal to want to do that, Adam agrees it is/was intense at the time but argues that after waiting 25 years there is/was a lot of bonding/catching up to be done, this argument is insufficient in Eves eyes so Adam has eased off on the amount of visits as has Child, during the second year Adam has Visited 3 times (one time accompanied by Eve) child has visited twice (once to visit siblings & once to Adams house when Eve was abroad).
Whilst Adam has to agree that tradition is important (xmas/nye etc) child has been requesting (emotionally) that Adam spends a christmas with (just one) seeing as child never had Adam there throughout their life. Adam understands this but also understands tradition and is stuck between a rock & hard place in that he does not want to offend either by accepting/refusing whichever is the case.
Adam has suggested to Eve that she should allow him to spend a christmas day there (leave xmas eve & return stephen's day) as their children are adults (and Adam was there for all their xmas',naturally) and it is only one day out of the last 26 and the next however long they might live,plus there would be lots of notice (like a years notice),Eve is steadfast in her refusal,this issue will escalate in time, Adam will raise the question again obviously after the new year, but in raising the question he knows there will be another (senseless) argument.

movingsucks wrote:

Have Adam and Eve considered couples counselling?
There's an awful lot of issues here.

from where? they do not live in a big city and would be known to everyone where they live.
Adam would be agreeable to counselling, Eve would not.

Taltos wrote:

There is a few things about this situation OP.
Firstly as some of the others pointed out Eve has every right not to want to engage with Adam's first family if you will, as others have pointed out she is not biologically related to them.

However, her own children ARE.
Ideally Eve needs to all she can to encourage her own children to mix with their sibling and new relations, while at the same time keeping a respectful distance.
Note the word respectful here - it is clear that her behaviour is being driven by jealousy, and that is actually totally natural. At this stage though having first encouraged Adam (wonder if it was a test in her mind) she now needs to learn how to be supportive.

All Adam can do is reassure her, but he also needs to make it clear that these "people" are his family and while he was not there for them growing up he loves them just as much as his and Eve's children - would she be able to love any of her own children any more/less.

But to be honest OP - if Eve is so entrenched then I am not sure it will be easy for Adam to get through to her alone. Outside intervention / mediation / counselling / or their own children - might be the way to go. Eve has to see that her behaviour is effecting both Adam, his grandchildren and their own family. Unfortunately Adam can't force this.

Adam should try to do all he can to build that relationship but he needs to also do all he "reasonably" can to reassure Eve that he is fully committed to her and adores her with all his heart, but her actions and treatment of HIS children are hurting him so much it is driving him crazy with pain...

Maybe in seeing the real pain she is causing and the relationships she is damaging she might change her behaviour slightly but maybe they both need help in determining how much both of them need to change their expectations.

it is not a major issue for Adam if Eve does not engage with child/grandchildren, he would prefer she did but can live with it if she does not and would not argue with her to do so either way,
Eve does not encourage in any way her children to engage or build a relationship with their sibling, Adam knows that Eve's reaction to child is preventing siblings building said relationship, all siblings have spent time together (socialising & getting to know each other) and there are no problems, but their relationship would definitely be stronger/closer were it not for the reaction of Eve (to child) and the Arguments between Adam & Eve.
Intervention would be probably help but both Adam & Eve need to agree to that and Eve does not.

Lorna123

When you say that you would like to spend Christmas with child as he never had this privilege growing up I fully understand that but could the lot of you not spend Christmas together, e.g. Eve and 2 children, plus Child and 3 grandchildren. That would be ideal.

If that is not acceptable to Eve then spending Christmas Day with Child and going home on St. Stephen's Day sounds reasonable enough to me under the circumstances.

Could you explain in a nice way to Eve how much this is upsetting you as you don't like to upset either her or child. Tell her that you would like the lot of you to spend Christmas together and failing that you will go to Child for Christmas. She can't be that unreasonable. Best of Luck OP

JoJoK

Hi, i'm female and have someone close in an eerily similar situation so have to say, I can completely understand Eve's emotional reaction.
Am posing these questions for OP to consider, not necessarily answer here
Adam has spent a long time looking for child with Eve's support. Was that search a unifying thing to do together? What's been the replacement joint activity in the relationship? Is it arguing?
Child would have been an abstract concept until child was actually located.
Is child more accomplished/better looking/kinder than Adam and Eve's children?
Did Adam and Eve completely relocate?
If not, why didn't child look for him earlier, afterall child must be nearly 28 now, and would have had a lot more info about Adam, his parents/siblings/home town etc. than Adam had about child.. just saying..
Also, while child did not have biological father in her life, she had a father figure who gave her his sirname, so she had one, just not Adam. Most unfair to try to emotionally blackmail Adam on basis that he wasn't there for 25 yrs when for at least 10 of those she had a choice, and had a surrogate instead. Perhaps the surrogate died/left, that is unknown on this thread and am aware of assumption there. Perhaps child is trying to replace surrogate with Adam? Is that Adam's role?
These things need to be seriously considered if a 26 yr marriage is being jeopardised for a relationship with the child.
Has Adam pursued this relationship at a cost to his relationships with offspring from the Adam and Eve relationship? kindof get the impression he has. Very dismissive of their and Eve's needs/traditions at Christmas.
Did Adam skip going abroad with Eve so child could come and visit him, or did Eve have to cart herself off to get out of the way so that Adam and child could bond?
Has Adam spent a lot of money on travel as a result of finding child?
Do Eve and Adam have grandchildren?
If not, Adam has leapt miles ahead of Eve in life stages and she feels left behind, perhaps resurrecting abandonment issues she first experienced in the '80s when Adam decided to leave her and go to England. Btw, this was a choice, however bad things were at home, he could've just moved out and rented a room close by, could have moved to the next town, or Dublin... but he chose to leave Eve and go to the UK.

If Adam and Eve do have grandchildren, perhaps Eve fears displacement on their behalf, or on behalf of the ones to come eventually, or on behalf of her children - which incidentally is exactly what Adam appears to be proposing for Christmas.
Just as Adam and Eve's children have reached an independent stage, along comes what sounds like one very manipulative offspring from his previous relationship, complete with ready made grandchildren, and now occupies a large part of Adam's heart, finances and head space. So instead of kicking back a bit with her life partner now that the nest is empty, Eve sees him as a grandad, and dad to a stranger with little resources left for her needs.
Then there are succession issues. Will child be entitled to claim assets Adam and Eve have accumulated together if Adam dies? What about the grandchildren, will they be getting their cut too? Minefield Adam and Eve's kids haven't identified yet I'd imagine...
Another thing for Adam to consider, Is mammy/grandmother of found child & grandchildren in the picture? How has time treated her, if so? Would Eve be fearful that Adam is going back and forth to the UK, seeing this woman regularly, and of where that might lead?
These are all things Adam needs to consider if he truly wants to understand Eve's point of view. Adam needs to make a point of making christmas special for the family he has had with him for the past quarter century, perhaps upping his game even. Once Eve feels secure that her family unit and place at the centre of Adam's world and heart is not being threatened or short-changed by Adam, this would all settle down.
IMO, suggesting he abandon Eve at Christmas (what was she supposed to do with herself??) was throwing petrol on a burning building.
I think Adam is being selfish here, sorry OP, but Adam made a life commitment to Eve, on the basis that the child was looked after and had already given his consent for the child to take another mans name before Adam and Eve even had their own children. While searching for chile in the abstract was a pursuit they engaged in, the reality has obviously hit Eve like a tonne of bricks. Adam needs to understand and respect that.
OP, Adam's between a rock and a hardplace here and my heart goes out to him, but have to say, Eve's whole life and future has been turned upside down too. She's grieving for the pleasure and joint experiences she'll now never have with Adam, including 1st offspring's pregnancy, 1st grandchild, 1st grandchilds first words, steps, school day, wedding blah blah, you get the picture, because Adam's child has already done it all first. It's a whole life she will now not have with her husband.

Hope that helps, as you asked for perspectives from women