Victory Outreach

jclally

I was just going into Fresh, Grand Canal Square when I was stopped by a fella who said he was collecting for aa drug rehabilitation centre. He implied he was collecting for a charity, but Im not sure he actually said it.
I never give these people the time of day but for some reason I did today, I was sick, working late and he was right in the door of the shop. I had given him a couple of quid before I knew it, which is annoying enough.
He gave me a card "to prove we're legit" as I was walking away - it describes them as Victory Outreach, and they appear to be some kind of church based organisation rather than a charity. A quick google seems to imply theyre a cult who give their members cash collection targets, with a "pastor" who seems fond of the good life.
Anyone know anything about them?

Fr_Dougal

Hi, I'm the wallet inspector...

northsideDayz

if only ya knew what you gave your money to.

i know a good few people who have been in their collection, charity, cult, "rehab".

they are a "church" based organisation. one of those born again christian types, with the main pastor is from america.
They have "Homes" in dublin(i think), drogheda, cork and belfast.

When someone comes to them looking to get off drugs, they enter one of their "homes", where they give the "church" their dole each week, for the "pleasure" of staying their to get off drugs, get ****ty food and be treated like absolute dirt if they dont go out collecting for them.

I've heard of some lads pretty much being sent out the door the same day they arrive to start colelcting for thier pastor's bank, "charity". I met a lad where this happened, and he collected some money and went off to buy more gear straight away.

Each person is given a target, how much depends on the day. Sunday to Wednesday is 250 euro they have to get. I've heard plenty of stories where some lads would be out from 9am till 10 or 11 at night trying to get the 250. Thursday to Saturday is 350 a day. They are put outside shops, houses and into pubs at night to go collecting. Usually in groups of 2 or 3.
Most of the lads will try get a bit extra each day for themselves on top of that.
The "team leaders" known as home directors get percentage of the days takings. then the pastors take the rest.

And they have no qualms in bullying other charities from shopfronts, housing estates or pubs.

The pastors, and theres a few of them, mostly Irish, all live around the Kilcock area beside each other, in nice big houses, although they rent the houses, instead of buying them.(from what i hear, its so they can leave the country easier, without leaving money behind as such, when needed).

Rough estimate, for Dublin anyway, is they bring in easily around the 15k euro mark a week.

and the best part is, the pastor and their wives each leave the country every month or so, with 10k euro on them, as its the highest amount you can travel with wihtout having to declare it, and put it into their accounts over there. aswell as pay their year "rent" to corporate, which is the american victory outreach, where the main pastor over there enjoys most of his days on his yacth.

From what i hear, (now this part really is rumours) CAB has been investigating them. and again I heard, the people i know haven't been a part of them in a long time, so most information would be heard in passing, but apparently they were actually hit with a hefty bill from CAB at one point not too long ago.



my point in all of this is, you were right to be weary, wrong in giving him money. and hopefully have warned some others about them.

yes im using a throwaway because i know what sort of people do enter their homes, and get blinded enough like most cultish organisations to fight for them.

Frank Black

The lesson here is never, ever give to charity.

super_furry

They're not short a few quid either built a huge multi-million campus in Firhouse a couple of years back.

stmol32

Na na na na na leader!

Run_to_da_hills

The Victory church preaches a false prosperity Gospel.

American origin of course and Just like their religious cable TV stations,

"You give us 100 bucks on your credit card and God will give you back double that amount" . :rolleyes:

mattjack

super_furry wrote: »

They're not short a few quid either built a huge multi-million campus in Firhouse a couple of years back.

Is the rehab centre and the campus in Firhouse the same organisation ?

Sky King

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The Victory church preaches a false prosperity Gospel.:

Worshiping false profits eh?

Pottler

They rented a house near us a while back. Oh the fun we had. The new characters we met! The dramas! Brilliant it was.when they left..

Milk & Honey

jclally wrote: »

I never give these people the time of day but for some reason I did today, I was sick, working late and he was right in the door of the shop. I had given him a couple of quid before I knew it, which is annoying enough.

A fool and his money are soon part.

holystungun9

Milk & Honey wrote: »

A fool and his money are soon part.

The missing syllable is:

(a) ing

(b) ed

(c) stop being a cnut holystungun9

sbsquarepants

super_furry wrote: »

They're not short a few quid either built a huge multi-million campus in Firhouse a couple of years back.

I pass it most days - It's one flashy "church" and it's huge. I actually thought it was a leisure center first time i seen it!

lukesmom

Yes my little brother (R.I.P) went to victory outreach Outside Drogheda 2 years ago and only lasted a night. They took his books off him when he entered. The final straw was next morning 20 grown men and teens sitting in a circle crying to Jesus with thanks for 'saving' them. He got the hell out of there. The prick that ran it said he saw bad things for him in the future and I hate to say he was right.
Anyway it's extremely religious based

General Zod

Just FYI there are 2 organisations called Victory Outreach and that the ones claiming to be drug rehab are very cultish.

AnonoBoy

Victory Outreach sounds like an awesome mouthwash.

Odysseus

lukesmom wrote: »

Yes my little brother (R.I.P) went to victory outreach Outside Drogheda 2 years ago and only lasted a night. They took his books off him when he entered. The final straw was next morning 20 grown men and teens sitting in a circle crying to Jesus with thanks for 'saving' them. He got the hell out of there. The prick that ran it said he saw bad things for him in the future and I hate to say he was right.
Anyway it's extremely religious based

Sorry about your brother. Unfortunately I know them, I have seen too many clients abused by them, however, it is very easy for some to say there are bad things in an addicts future. Sadly due to the lack of proper treatment facilities over here unless they get clean the are bad things in most active addicts futures.

Waste of space, any treatment facility that collects cash outside shops ect get nothing from me.

DeltaWhite

I know a girl that joined it. Big religious cult if ya ask me. It seems to have changed her life but she posts Bible quotes daily on Facebook and about how we shouldnt sin or we wont be "saved" etc..

That's grand if thats what she wants to do but I literally DESPISE the way she pushes her new found ways onto other people.

I've my own opinion about Religion which I'm entitled to and I dont need people pushing fairytales onto me on a daily basis...

I steer clear of VO and anyone associated with it, it aint my cup of tea.

jomc

They're linked with another prosperity church in Galway called abundant life, i think they might have 'rebranded' it as something with victory in it. The pastor of abundant life got into huge trouble over not paying the rent despite taking money from the churchs members to pay for the rent, and a few members went to the papers about the shenanigans. He was ordered back to the U.S. leaving all his debt here and the church was given to victory. Makes for some terrifying reading

http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/%E2%80%98cult%E2%80%99-pastor-texas-money-and-runs-by-jim-gallagher-sunday-world/

there is a link there with screen shots of the sunday world article and on the site they have the info of victory taking it over. It also has some of the newsletters the pastor sent out to his american supporters begging for money, in one he says ireland is a godless heathen generation and he is the only one bringing God to Ireland...ever hear of St. Patrick!

franktheplank

black francis wrote: »

The lesson here is never, ever give to charity.

Yup nd it's a pity. There's essentially no regulation of charity in this country, so there's no knowing where any of the money collected goes. A lot of the big charities are very vague about what they do with their money too, and we're talking profits in the millions and millions here.

northsideDayz

Victory Outreach usually go by multiple names, such as Outreach Ireland, and Youth Outreach, and Youthreach.

They are just like the american churches, where they usually ask for donations about 4 or 5 times in an hour during church.
They try to drill it into the addicts heads that if they leave the church they will end up back on drugs, so that it does happen when they leave.

They used to have a church in ballyfermot, in an industrial estate I believe.
Most people in ballyfermot, and around the cappagh area of finglas should know them well. They are forever outside the post offices in both areas, and will constantly try to worm their way outside the tescos also.

TwoShedsJackson

Are these guys connected to the Victory Christian place that's been built fairly recently in Firhouse?

goose2005

franktheplank wrote: »

Yup nd it's a pity. There's essentially no regulation of charity in this country, so there's no knowing where any of the money collected goes. A lot of the big charities are very vague about what they do with their money too, and we're talking profits in the millions and millions here.

Even the respectable, well-known charities pay enormous salaries to their bosses, so Science knows what the small obscure ones are getting up to.

franktheplank

goose2005 wrote: »

Even the respectable, well-known charities pay enormous salaries to their bosses, so Science knows what the small obscure ones are getting up to.

Yup, you might see the salary published in some cases but i've never seen published figures for bonuses, expenses, pensions etc.

Essentially it's a publicly funded job with zero public accountability.

There was supposed to be legislation to deal with it but its not being activated because of the cost involved. I think these super wealthy charities should be meeting that cost.

For me, I won't be giving a thing to charity until there's proper accountability.

Honey-ec

stmol32

stmol32 wrote: »

Na na na na na leader!

no english version on youtube close enough

nifheorais

northsideDayz wrote: »

Victory Outreach usually go by multiple names, such as Outreach Ireland, and Youth Outreach, and Youthreach.

They are just like the american churches, where they usually ask for donations about 4 or 5 times in an hour during church.
They try to drill it into the addicts heads that if they leave the church they will end up back on drugs, so that it does happen when they leave.

They used to have a church in ballyfermot, in an industrial estate I believe.
Most people in ballyfermot, and around the cappagh area of finglas should know them well. They are forever outside the post offices in both areas, and will constantly try to worm their way outside the tescos also.

Youthreach is a national education and training programme for early school leavers run by the Dept of Ed and Skills since 1989.This programme has no connection with these churches.

Pottler

Vict.Outreach were emm, collecting outside B&Q the other day, and one of their minibuses was parked in the car park(a nice shiny 12 reg) - bit posher than the old piles of dung they used to use. Things must be going well.

68Murph68

In fairness at least they are not paying the living expenses and legal costs of paedophiles while refusing to pay compensation to abuse victim the way the Catholic Church is......

They might be a bunch of basterds but when you compare them to the Catholic church they look respectable.

fasttalkerchat

Its a cult. Heard about them before from someone who asked a few questions.

admiralofthefleet

if i was a ghost i wouldnt give them a fright, them or any charity

saiint

my girlfriends brother was in that

hes in jail now .... waiting his sentencing

long story short
its a cult ( if its not well they have a funny way of showing it )
they send out all the "ex" drug users around all parts of dublin to collect money for the "programme"

i think they have to collect 150e a day
and heres the best part
their not allowed back in to sleep in the place until they have collected that amount
anything they make over 150e their allowed to keep ( i cant imagin them getting over it ) my girlfriends brother would be out at 8 in the morning until sometimes 10-11 at night and still not make enough so he would ask family members to chip in

they have church also constantly
are fed 3 times a day
in the morning before they go out
the other 2 times is if their back early with the 150e collected (might be more then that now)

i wouldnt give them a cent
they dont help the people infact im not surprised her brother still went on to use drugs afterwards cause how can he get help if he cant even make 150e a day of a collection , since none of it actually goes towards the so called programme
theirs no rehabilitation in the thing at all
been honest id rather be in jail
because fights use to brake out over them collecting since they would have to pretty much go into every pub and ask everyone constantly for something

its a joke of a place

"her brother is a joke aswell but thats a different story"

hatrickpatrick

Sorry to sound harsh, but one does not simply give money to chuggers.
It doesn't matter if it's a good cause, in fact. It doesn't matter if it's something you adamantly support and WANT to give money to - tell the chugger to feck off and then make a donation yourself in your own time, online or whatever.

Every time someone gives money or their details to a chugger, they're reinforcing the idea that it works, and therefore perpetuating this incredibly irritating blight on our streets. I'm all for charity, but I seriously don't like being heckled by these eejits every single time I walk through the city, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's starting to find it annoying.

strobe

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Are these guys connected to the Victory Christian place that's been built fairly recently in Firhouse?

Yep, same shower of cvnts.

RidleyRider

General Zod wrote: »

Just FYI there are 2 organisations called Victory Outreach and that the ones claiming to be drug rehab are very c*ntish.

FYP;)

lukesmom

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Sorry to sound harsh, but one does not simply give money to chuggers.
It doesn't matter if it's a good cause, in fact. It doesn't matter if it's something you adamantly support and WANT to give money to - tell the chugger to feck off and then make a donation yourself in your own time, online or whatever.

Every time someone gives money or their details to a chugger, they're reinforcing the idea that it works, and therefore perpetuating this incredibly irritating blight on our streets. I'm all for charity, but I seriously don't like being heckled by these eejits every single time I walk through the city, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's starting to find it annoying.

What's a chugger?

ITS_A_BADGER

lukesmom wrote: »

What's a chugger?

chugger = charity mugger aka charity workers that collect money on the street

MadsL

lukesmom wrote: »

What's a chugger?

Do you have a moment and I'll tell you...

Liam28

Pottler wrote: »

They rented a house near us a while back. Oh the fun we had. The new characters we met! The dramas! Brilliant it was.when they left..

Pottler, Victory Outreach have just rented a house near me, what can I expect?

Pottler

Liam28 wrote: »

Pottler, Victory Outreach have just rented a house near me, what can I expect?

Lot of new "faces".:) Ah, sure they might be grand. Wait and see is usually the best approach, could be quiet as mice.

January

strobe wrote: »

Yep, same shower of cvnts.

No, actually they're completely different showers of cúnts. Believe me. I know, I've been part of that church. If your family is an addict, and you're thinking of getting them help through these people, don't.

It's all about the high up people in there. They drive around without insurance and everything. Those big shiny bus's, they rely on prayer to get them from a-b without being stopped by the Garda.

MrReal

What Victory Outreach do is totally wrong and they often break the law. I dont even think one of them has the correct licence to drive a mini bus. I have they have people drive for them that are banned from driving.

Its all about the €

It all started with that pastor taking addicts into his shed then having them out collecting money this was years ago.

Victory Outreach (rehab and church) are not connected to the Victory Centre in Firhouse.

Victory Outreach (rehab and church) please do not think that this represents Christian churches and organisations because they do not.

The sooner VO are closed down the better.

Shame on you Pastor Andy Valdez
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (money)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9KUilKMDaY

Pastor Andy Valdez Preacher Wilkerson is talking about wolves like you.

justincasey

It seems to me VO works like a pyramid scheme. While the leaders are driving
around in two or three cars and living in big house (I know one personally) the rest of the great unwashed are out collecting on there behalf.I work in an addiction service and see the fall out from VO. Usually someone has to hand up £150 to stay there (possibly Tax Payers Money). After going through cold turkey for 3-4 weeks they are sent out to collect (Could be 10 mins from were they use to score drugs) meeting a target and pocketing the rest. VO is not regulated and has no structure aimed at rehabilitation. VO is dangerous and detrimental to someone trying to get clean. Don't give money to them there are other grass roots projects within our community who genuinely need your help . The only god VO worship is the mighty $$.

lukesmom

Talking about victory outreach on rte1 radio now not very positive!
And 9.35 tonight prime time

expectationlost

did he say the courts accepted victory outreach as part of probation? i didn't quite hear that.

where's the health regulation?

spank_inferno

RTE did a number on this crowd on the SOR show.

Though they seem an odd bunch, the RTE slot was a bit of a hatchet job.

At least someone is trying to cure Heroin addiction without using legal Heroin.

lukesmom

expectationlost wrote: »

did he say the courts accepted victory outreach as part of probation? i didn't quite hear that.

where's the health regulation?

Yes unfortunately they did say the courts accepted them as part of probation. I'm hoping that tonight's primetime programme will put an end to these con artists. I was at my local aldi about a month ago and two of their 'recruits' were looking for donations. I spoke to one of the lads who looked absolutely dreadful. I told him how my brother only lasted a night on victory outreach in drogheda. I asked him what treatment he was receiving and of course he said none. He said The Lord was gonna help them all. So another brainwashed drug addict

It's unbelievable that this crowd are still operating.

No trained staff
No qualifications needed
No treatment withdrawal programme of any kind
No counselling
No therapy
€150 taken from your dole each week
Put out to beg on the streets so the fat cats can drive their flash cars
Brainwashed into thinking that the Lord alone can help their heroin withdrawals
It's extremely dangerous. One lady spoke of the several fits she had while staying at victory outreach and nothing was offered to her by way of treatment
Makes my blood BOIL

Mammanabammana

This is worth a read to get a bit more insight into the workings of Victory. They seem to be a seriously evil crowd.

http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/8899/

TheoBane

Just another organisation that prime time are trying to blame...again. If it's not some new political party helping the people or anything on this governments agenda, it must be bad.

I know the people of this church and organisation, just to put my stance in IM NOT part of the church or the organisation.

What i do believe, is the work they do. I've seen it first hand, its not some shamble or joke. I have no idea where these figure's they are pulling this up from.

Most likely, all these rumors are probley from people that left the rehab program for one reason or another. One thing i can see is, that RTE are going to make this look as bad as possible. Just for everyone's entertainment

expectationlost

Mammanabammana wrote: »

This is worth a read to get a bit more insight into the workings of Victory. They seem to be a seriously evil crowd.

http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/8899/

look at that, they want to evangilize and discipline the hurting pople of the world

expectationlost

TheoBane wrote: »

Just another organisation that prime time are trying to blame...again. If it's not some new political party helping the people or anything on this governments agenda, it must be bad.

I know the people of this church and organisation, just to put my stance in IM NOT part of the church or the organisation.

What i do believe, is the work they do. I've seen it first hand, its not some shamble or joke. I have no idea where these figure's they are pulling this up from.

Most likely, all these rumors are probley from people that left the rehab program for one reason or another. One thing i can see is, that RTE are going to make this look as bad as possible. Just for everyone's entertainment

the 'one reason or another' is the point of the programme