F1 2012: Round 20 - Brazilian Grand Prix.

Jordan 199

Right were onto the last race of the season, and it's going to be a championship showdown between Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso.

Vettel is on 273 points and has 5 victories so far this season. Alonso is on 260 points and has 3 victories so far.

It will also Michael Schumacher's last race for Mercedes before retiring. He has won here 4 times before.



I am so looking forward to this race!

Cookie_Monster

I love this race and love this track. Bring it on!!
(stupid NZ being where it is means it'll be on Monday morning while i'm in work though )

Jordan 199

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I love this race and love this track. Bring it on!!
(stupid NZ being where it is means it'll be on Monday morning while i'm in work though )

It's a great track, especially the way the track rises and falls. It's also anticlockwise so it places great strain on the drivers neck when they come out of turn 14 to the home straight.

Is it true that there is a good chance of it being a wet race? I remember hearing that it was something like 60% chance of rain for the Sunday. That could make it interesting.
I just hope that vettel doesn't lead from start to finish. I want to see a bit of action.

Peanut Butter Jelly

One of the best tracks on the calender. Ok it hasn't got the facilities of Abu Dhabi, but is a circuit remembered for the amount of entertainment it provides, or the amount of towels in the hotel's bathrooms?

IMO the perfect place for a championship decider, with the shear lottery of the weather, track conditions, EVERYTHING!

Cookie_Monster

who going to be targeted for kidnapping this year I wonder?
(I know it shouldn't be funny but still...)

Jordan 199

2003 race highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwVV1Mr-_uc

Frank Bullitt

The interesting for me will be, if the teams know that it is a dry qualy but a wet race, will they compromise their set up on saturday for the race?

cherryghost

Wouldn't mind a bit of this :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69JUz9BDrXQ

cherryghost

By the way, forecast for the weekend:

Friday: Sunny and fine, hot
Saturday: Large amount of thunderstorms probably, cool
Sunday: Heavy rain all day, cool

Friday's practice will have little or no bearing on the weekend from what I see. Temperatures will be sliced in half as a pool of cold air hits the warm air saturday morning, sparking massive showers. I wouldn't be surprised if quali and race are delayed by the looks of it. This is the problem with hosting the F1 race later in the year in South America.

bbsrs

cherryghost wrote: »

By the way, forecast for the weekend:

Friday: Sunny and fine, hot
Saturday: Large amount of thunderstorms probably, cool
Sunday: Heavy rain all day, cool

Friday's practice will have little or no bearing on the weekend from what I see. Temperatures will be sliced in half as a pool of cold air hits the warm air saturday morning, sparking massive showers. I wouldn't be surprised if quali and race are delayed by the looks of it. This is the problem with hosting the F1 race later in the year in South America.

Problem or bonus ? I don't mind a delay if it mixes everything up .

the culture of deference

Copied from Deviant art user atatashechke

Goldstein

Rain will be brilliant so long as we don't get too much of it and don't have to endure:

• The race being started behind the safety car
• Safety car deployed at any stage due to too much standing water on the track (Unless Vettel is out in front, in that case bring on the monsoon )
• Race red flagged

Someone should sabotage all the safety cars, then we'll see an exciting race

Peanut Butter Jelly

Just bear in mind, if half points are given out, Vettel will be champion regardless.

So don't be surprised if Vettel comes on the radio saying "We cannot race out here, I cannot see anything!" if there's a light mist.

the culture of deference

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Just bear in mind, if half points are given out, Vettel will be champion regardless.

Can you imagine
Seb crashes on a flooded track 10 laps in, then Alonso in 1st is heard giggling on the radio with the maniac laugh he has. Ferrari all look jubilant.

Race red flagged 10 laps later and Fernando only gets 12 and a half points

Myrddin

the culture of deference wrote: »

Can you imagine
Seb crashes on a flooded track 10 laps in, then Alonso in 1st is heard giggling on the radio with the maniac laugh he has. Ferrari all look jubilant.

Race red flagged 10 laps later and Fernando only gets 12 and a half points

Or even if Vettel crashes out, & Alonso comes home in 5th/6th or whatever, a point or two shy of taking the title. I'd actually cry

Copper_pipe

Sorry for the noob question :PAC: but do ye think the track will suit vettel or Alonso?

ScumLord

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Sorry for the noob question :PAC: but do ye think the track will suit vettel or Alonso?

If it's wet Alonso. I don't think Vettle can deal with uncertainty as well as Alonso.

Daniel S

I think everyone wanting Alonso to win the WDC is making people think it is more likely than it is. IMO, one of these will happen:

1. Vettel on pole and Vettel wins
2. Hamilton on pole and Hamilton wins, Vettel in second.

Honestly can't see anything else happening and I really don't think Vettel gets the credit he deserves.

mrsoundie

Daniel S wrote: »

I think everyone wanting Alonso to win the WDC is making people think it is more likely than it is. IMO, one of these will happen:

1. Vettel on pole and Vettel wins
2. Hamilton on pole and Hamilton wins, Vettel in second.

Honestly can't see anything else happening and I really don't think Vettel gets the credit he deserves.

On the ball there, Vettel not appreciated is it a Ferrari thing?

T-Maxx

mrsoundie wrote: »

On the ball there, Vettel not appreciated is it a Ferrari thing?

No. It's a Vettel thing.

Rascasse

mrsoundie wrote: »

On the ball there, Vettel not appreciated is it a Ferrari thing?

I don't know if it's a Ferrari thing or a Vettel thing. For example there is a lot of love for Schumacher on this board, yet little for Vettel. If you compare Vettel to where Schumacher was at this point in his career you'll find Vettel is ahead.

After 5 full seasons (and both at 25 years of age) MSC had 22 wins and 2 championships. VET has 26 wins and (right now) 2 championships.

Vettel is arguably a much nicer guy, hasn't run into anyone to win a championship, and yet is dismissed. Makes the races boring they say, yet it's not a lot different to Schumacher dominant years.

Cookie_Monster

It because he's got a prickish wanna upstage and be better than everyone type of attitude, the RB snugness about everything doesnt help in the backfround either

Max_Charger

Rascasse wrote: »

hasn't run into anyone to win a championship

Not yet :pac:

Excellent point though. Has the love for Shumi grown more now that he is the underdog and not dominating?

thewheel2.0

Rascasse wrote: »

I don't know if it's a Ferrari thing or a Vettel thing. For example there is a lot of love for Schumacher on this board, yet little for Vettel. If you compare Vettel to where Schumacher was at this point in his career you'll find Vettel is ahead.

After 5 full seasons (and both at 25 years of age) MSC had 22 wins and 2 championships. VET has 26 wins and (right now) 2 championships.

Vettel is arguably a much nicer guy, hasn't run into anyone to win a championship, and yet is dismissed. Makes the races boring they say, yet it's not a lot different to Schumacher dominant years.

Exactly my thoughts from lurking here a lot. If its a personality contest then Vettle beats most drivers as hes a fantastic ambassador for the sport. He was fantastic on Top Gear and gives great interviews to the BBC lads that draw out his personality.

And on the track hes a total boss. Whats not to like?

mrsoundie

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

Exactly my thoughts from lurking here a lot. If its a personality contest then Vettle beats most drivers as hes a fantastic ambassador for the sport. He was fantastic on top gear and gives great interviews to the BBC lads that draw out his personality.

And on the track hes a total boss. Whats not to like?

Some people are not happy that Ferrari are getting beat and there is nothing they can do about it. On personalities Vettel wins hands down, can you imagine Alonso on Top Gear, the naughty word list would be a mile long (don't talk about Hamilton, Alonsos time at McLaren etc etc).

What I would like to see is both Alonso and Vettel in identical cars, then we would know.

Frank Bullitt

Rascasse wrote: »

I don't know if it's a Ferrari thing or a Vettel thing. For example there is a lot of love for Schumacher on this board, yet little for Vettel. If you compare Vettel to where Schumacher was at this point in his career you'll find Vettel is ahead.

After 5 full seasons (and both at 25 years of age) MSC had 22 wins and 2 championships. VET has 26 wins and (right now) 2 championships.

Vettel is arguably a much nicer guy, hasn't run into anyone to win a championship, and yet is dismissed. Makes the races boring they say, yet it's not a lot different to Schumacher dominant years.

My take on comparing them is the way in which it was all done. Schumacher went to benetton and made the team, then went to Ferrari, and effectivly built them up to get to the dominance that they enjoyed for those years.

Vettel has done none of that, it was all in place before he got to RB, his spell at Torro Rosso was impressive and he made the most of his opportunity in Italy to get the win, it was well deserved.

So while they are comparable on their results, the manner in which they achieved the opportunity to get them is very different.

In relation to Vettel being arguably nicer, unless you know them personally then you can't really comment on that. Both have been seen to loose the head in the past, and so what? They are competitive drivers that want the best that they can get, so if they don't get it, they are not happy.

Back to the topic, this race has the potential to be a cracker, its quite close in the times and McLaren are in the mix, Ferrari are also not as bad as previous races, and then the rain could well mix it all up.

Daniel S

mrsoundie wrote: »

Some people are not happy that Ferrari are getting beat and there is nothing they can do about it. On personalities Vettel wins hands down, can you imagine Alonso on Top Gear, the naughty word list would be a mile long (don't talk about Hamilton, Alonsos time at McLaren etc etc).

What I would like to see is both Alonso and Vettel in identical cars, then we would know.

I understand the identical cars argument, but both drivers have different styles and will require a different car setup. No longer identical cars. Then certain tracks and conditions will suit one of drivers.

We'd probably have to stick them in karts and make them do 100 laps on a very generic track to have some sort of idea, but then again, that only proved they're better at karting. There's too many other influences to ever settle who is a better driver definitively (engineers etc).

mrsoundie

Daniel S wrote: »

I understand the identical cars argument, but both drivers have different styles and will require a different car setup. No longer identical cars. Then certain tracks and conditions will suit one of drivers.

We'd probably have to stick them in karts and make them do 100 laps on a very generic track to have some sort of idea, but then again, that only proved they're better at karting. There's too many other influences to ever settle who is a better driver definitively (engineers etc).

So there is no answer. Sunday afternoon will be the only way to settle this. There can only be one (mmm pity we cant chop off the losers head).

Then again this is not a personality contest, its driving skills that decide the day and the engineers and the tacticians and the support staff and the tea lady yada yada yada

paddy147

mrsoundie wrote: »

So there is no answer. Sunday afternoon will be the only way to settle this. There can only be one (mmm pity we cant chop off the losers head).

Then again this is not a personality contest, its driving skills that decide the day and the engineers and the tacticians and the support staff and the tea lady yada yada yada

Dont forget the stewards and driver representitive steward on the day too.


Any "clash" or "manouver" or pit lane incident can incure a pit lane penalty....:pac::eek::D

Ghost Train

paddy147 wrote: »

Dont forget the stewards and driver representitive steward on the day too.


Any "clash" or "manouver" or pit lane incident can incure a pit lane penalty....:pac::eek::D

pity if it comes down to some penalty or ruling or technical infringement... hopefully will go down to the last few laps

Ares

On the whole Vettel unappreciated thing, its definitely a thing. I was at the German grand prix this year, 2012, and with about 1 minute left in the qualy session Schumacher put himself on provisional pole. The crowd goes mad. Vettel does the same a few seconds later and there is a muted response from the crowd, a small clap. Very odd considering both are German and one is the reigning double world champion.

Myself and a couple of Dutch lads commented on it. With so many people, not just the German's, its either Schumacher or nothing. I want Alonso to win the title but Vettel get's taken for granted. It wouldn't surprise me to see him lead lights to flag on Sunday. But he'll still be dismissed by the same people on this board who champion Schumacher.

Very strange altogether.

Daniel S

Ares wrote: »

On the whole Vettel unappreciated thing, its definitely a thing. I was at the German grand prix this year just gone and with about 1 minute left in the qualy session Schumacher put himself on provisional pole. The crowd goes mad. Vettel does the same a few seconds later and there is a muted response from the crowd, a small clap. Very odd considering both are German and one is the reigning double world champion.

Myself and a couple of Dutch lads commented on it. With so many people, not just the German's, its either Schumacher or nothing. I want Alonso to win the title but Vettel get's taken for granted. It wouldn't surprise me to see him lead lights to flag on Sunday. But he'll still be dismissed by the same people on this board who champion Schumacher.

Very strange altogether.

+1 again.

It's seems like most people opinions are:
1. I support Alonso, therefore Hamilton and Vettel are shíte.
2. I support Vettel, therefore Hamilton and Alonso are shíte.
3. I support Hamilton, therefore Alonso and Vettel are shíte.
It's getting as bad as football!
That said, I was #2 for most of 2010

"Vettel's never been in a bad car and don't try and say his Torro Rosso win was in a bad car..."
I hate that argument. Fair play to him for going to the best team. He is one of, if not the best driver in F1 at the moment. Yes, being in the best car does help immensely, but he still has to go out and do it.

"Look at what Alonso has done with such a dog of a car!"
In that case Kimi Raikkonen should win the championship. He has been the best driver this year.

Hamilton hasn't annoyed me much this year, he's been almost likable since he signed for Merc! :pac: The McLaren either worked or didn't, it didn't seem to have a medium pace for all circuits.

Two people who deserve to be as well known as the top F1 drivers are Rory Byrne and Adrian Newey, without them Schumacher and Vettel would not be as successful as they are. Imagine if Kimi Raikkonen had either of them backing him? He would be considered a rival to Senna, if not better.

Ghost Train

The Vettel thing is a bit strange

Is it that a lot of his wins appear to be from the front of the field... is it that the redbull is seen as well ahead of the other teams most of the time so driver doesn't get the credit

ScumLord

Ghost Train wrote: »

The Vettel thing is a bit strange

Is it that a lot of his wins appear to be from the front of the field... is it that the redbull is seen as well ahead of the other teams most of the time so driver doesn't get the credit

People just don't like seeing one guy win too easily. I'm sure he is a top class driver and puts untold amount of preparation into each race, he possibly puts more work in for each race than any other driver and I'm sure it's not easy for him to win each race but it is boring to watch.

Maybe he's just good at crunching data though. I'd like to see a situation where drivers arrive at a track and have very little data to go on, they have to race whatever they're given on that day. I think the best driver would shine through then but it's hard to do something like that without putting drivers at risk of injury and of course one driver could end up getting screwed by not having a competitive car.

dor83

I can't wait for the race on Sunday, I just have a feeling that it is going to be a great race and go right to the last lap, kind of like 2008.

On the Vettel thing, I'm a Ferrari fan and always have been no matter who drives the car, but I do like Vettel and hope he drives for them in the future. Right now I would say Alonso is a more complete driver, a lot of that has to do with experience imo, but Vettel is 6 years younger than him so has plenty of time left whereas Alonso is probably at his peak right now.

mrsoundie

Daniel S wrote: »

+1 again.

It's seems like most people opinions are:
1. I support Alonso, therefore Hamilton and Vettel are shíte.
2. I support Vettel, therefore Hamilton and Alonso are shíte.
3. I support Hamilton, therefore Alonso and Vettel are shíte.
It's getting as bad as football!
That said, I was #2 for most of 2010

"Vettel's never been in a bad car and don't try and say his Torro Rosso win was in a bad car..."
I hate that argument. Fair play to him for going to the best team. He is one of, if not the best driver in F1 at the moment. Yes, being in the best car does help immensely, but he still has to go out and do it.

"Look at what Alonso has done with such a dog of a car!"
In that case Kimi Raikkonen should win the championship. He has been the best driver this year.

Hamilton hasn't annoyed me much this year, he's been almost likable since he signed for Merc! :pac: The McLaren either worked or didn't, it didn't seem to have a medium pace for all circuits.

Two people who deserve to be as well known as the top F1 drivers are Rory Byrne and Adrian Newey, without them Schumacher and Vettel would not be as successful as they are. Imagine if Kimi Raikkonen had either of them backing him? He would be considered a rival to Senna, if not better.

Bang on there Dan, as for liking drivers I like both Hamilton and Vettel, also I dont hate or dislike Alonso (sometimes his sour puss can be quite off putting, why cant he be more happy chappy like Raikkonen or Webber)).

cherryghost

Qualifying looks very interesting. Might start dry with showers coming overhead later. P3 looks like it will be dry but noticably cooler. I'd expect a different P3 result over P1 and P2 if that's the case. As for the race. Rain is 100% guaranteed. Whether it will be showers or consistant rain is another question.

bbsrs

cherryghost wrote: »

Qualifying looks very interesting. Might start dry with showers coming overhead later. P3 looks like it will be dry but noticably cooler. I'd expect a different P3 result over P1 and P2 if that's the case. As for the race. Rain is 100% guaranteed. Whether it will be showers or consistant rain is another question.

Woohoo ,bring on the wets. Schumi might leave with a podium.

_rebelkid

Kimi has blown engine 8 in FP3. Stopped on the outside of the track, so car won't be back until after the session.

Engine had a misfire yesterday, which seems to have developed.

LR have other engines available with mileage, so won't incur a penalty for extra engine use.

Ghost Train

Schumacher lucky enough to avoid any drama just there. Hope he has decent incident free grand prix and who know he might pick up a few points.... or that final win.

lolie

Ghost Train wrote: »

Schumacher lucky enough to avoid any drama just there. Hope he has decent incident free grand prix and who know he might pick up a few points.... or that final win.

Bit lucky alright, would've been just his luck to get caught up in it.
Toss up between red bull and mclaren.
Rain badly needed to make it interesting.

lolie

Found a radar link for Interlagos, not sure how accurate it is.
http://sigma.cptec.inpe.br/radar/radar.animacao.logic?i=en&radar=PSR

The red arrow in the image is roughly where the track is.

YbFocus

Lets be having ya lads, rain looks like holding off for quali?

Ghost Train

proper rain on bbc now

Copper_pipe

Ghost Train wrote: »

proper rain on bbc now

Not spitting, "proper rain"

Daniel S

Would someone tell Esteban to shave his uni-brow, it's getting worse!

Ghost Train

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Not spitting, "proper rain"

looking like a drying track during qualifying, would be good if the track keeps changing right up to the final laps in Q3, whether its because it getting wetter or drier, the radar above doesn't look too bad

bnt

Drying, but still a bit moist. Some good rally driving from Timo Glock there, trying to decide whether he prefers understeer or oversteer. :cool:

Prediction: Jenson Button is going to do something interesting today.

YbFocus

Wow, dry first half and crazy wet between 10 and 14, glock really cut up kovaleinen there! Good quali ahead!

Ghost Train

YbFocus wrote: »

Wow, dry first half and crazy wet between 10 and 14, glock really cut up kovaleinen there! Good quali ahead!

nice to see a bit of a battle for position between the two. What are the odds of yellow flag in the last minute or two of this session