Garda Reserve Representative Association??

daedalus177

Should members of the Garda Reserve have a representative body similar to that enjoyed by the thier full time counter parts, ie the GRA for Gardai, AGSI for Sergeants and Inspectors? As a comparison with the defence forces, both permanent and reserve elements have represantative bodies, ie the PDFRA and RDFRA. Just a thought, would love to hear some opinions about the matter.

daedalus177

Mods feel free to close this thread, I did not realise a similar one was already in place on this forum. "Private Sub-Forum re: politics of Garda Reserve."

My apologies

van_beano

How would this Reserve GRA be paid for? The regular GRA is paid for by subscription from its members. Would reserve members be willing to pay roughly €200 a year?

Sgt. Bilko 09

check mail OP

bluetop

van_beano wrote: »

How would this Reserve GRA be paid for? The regular GRA is paid for by subscription from its members. Would reserve members be willing to pay roughly €200 a year?

Why does it have to be a paid service, after all the reserves work for free why not have a representation body that is a non profit, ask yourself why does the GRA have to get subs, what do they do with the money collected god only knows.

bluetop

daedalus177 wrote: »

Should members of the Garda Reserve have a representative body similar to that enjoyed by the thier full time counter parts, ie the GRA for Gardai, AGSI for Sergeants and Inspectors? As a comparison with the defence forces, both permanent and reserve elements have represantative bodies, ie the PDFRA and RDFRA. Just a thought, would love to hear some opinions about the matter.

Totally agree with your post, exactly why should reserves members not have one, are they any different from the regular force, apart from being a voluntary entity, they are still under the 2005 act Members of An Garda Siochana.

van_beano

bluetop wrote: »

Why does it have to be a paid service, after all the reserves work for free why not have a representation body that is a non profit, ask yourself why does the GRA have to get subs, what do they do with the money collected god only knows.

I couldn't see members of the reserves, who have other jobs and family commitments, also taking on the role of GRA Rep for free aswell.

Perhaps the reserve member can incorporate the role as part of their 200+ hours per year that they've to be on duty?

bluetop

van_beano wrote: »

I couldn't see members of the reserves, who have other jobs and family commitments, also taking on the role of GRA Rep for free aswell.

Perhaps the reserve member can incorporate the role as part of their 200+ hours per year that they've to be on duty?

Yep why not and i am sure there are plenty of unemployed reserves as well that could commit to it, "BUT" it will never come to the forefront that's for sure, the higher echelons would never agree to it, they dont want the reserves to have a voice, they want them to come in do the work and sit in the corner like a door mouse, sure they cant even utilize them as it is, lots are left hanging around the station, where the could be at home, integration for them in ags sucks and is nonexistent , how long has it been since the last appreciation night approx 2 yrs ago, why do they no longer have them, simple answer they dont have the answers to the questions, or they dont want some questions even asked.

Pool radio system sucks you can never get one, pepper spray a pool what a joke sharing a pepper spray that someone else could have used, all reserves should have their own issue radio and pepper spray, there are tons of spare radios from retired and left members, they would prefer to lock them in an office rather then give them out, that is the level of trust they have for reserves.

Moral at an all time low for full time members, yep what about the reserve members how is the moral for them, they could not give a toss all they want is for you to come in shut your mouth and do and say nothing.

So for all them reasons above is why a representation body would never get off the ground two many waves would be made.

cronyism

If the GR experience nationwide is as described as above they should leave if their commitment is not rewarded/skills not put to use particulary those who want to go full time if the selection criteria that was applied to selection of hospital upgrades is applied to next recruitment campaign,no transparency or fairness whatsoever.Stroke politics at its best.
Reserves should be seen as an aid not a threat within AGS,doing voluntary work is admirable and shows dedication.

bluetop

cronyism wrote: »

If the GR experience nationwide is as described as above they should leave if their commitment is not rewarded/skills not put to use particulary those who want to go full time if the selection criteria that was applied to selection of hospital upgrades is applied to next recruitment campaign,no transparency or fairness whatsoever.Stroke politics at its best.
Reserves should be seen as an aid not a threat within AGS,doing voluntary work is admirable and shows dedication.

They will always be seen as a threat people within ags are afraid of change, anything that effects their comfort zone is seen as a threat, hence the lack of utilisation and integration within the ranks, full-time members mistrust them as they feel they are there to watch what they are doing and report back, or they have an ulterior motive like using the computer to spy on their friends and neighbors, so for that very reason they are under utilised and left sitting around stations twiddling their thumbs. ( Joke Really)

cronyism

bluetop wrote: »

They will always be seen as a threat people within ags are afraid of change, anything that effects their comfort zone is seen as a threat, hence the lack of utilisation and integration within the ranks, full-time members mistrust them as they feel they are there to watch what they are doing and report back, or they have an ulterior motive like using the computer to spy on their friends and neighbors, so for that very reason they are under utilised and left sitting around stations twiddling their thumbs. ( Joke Really)

It's an absolute joke,a disgrace.I don't know any reserves personally but I've heard of stories where a reserve is willing to work more than the required four hours but were told by Sergeant/Super they aren't needed yet the station is under-staffed,left sitting in the station because a full timer doesn't want them accompaning them on the beat.Why have reserves if they won't be utilised?It reminds me of the voting machines except worse in this instance.I had the intention of applying for reserves but with this Govt's mix of cronyism hence my username and non utiliziation of reserves I mightn't bother as it appears it'll be a fruitless exercise.Best wishes to serving reserves

Myrddin

cronyism wrote: »

Why have reserves if they won't be utilised?

Because it looks to Joe Public that there are more uniforms out there than there in fact are.

Utilization is a tricky one though, are Reserves prepared to take days off work for court appearances? Do they have the proper legal training & know how to deal with situations on the fly? The territory of a Reserve is a dodgy one, your in a uniform that usually comes with some serious training to wear, I can understand why reserves tend to be kept back somewhat, someone without proper knowledge could easily ruin a case, or make a situation worse. Just because you've completed two weeks in Templemore & passed a few role play exams doesn't mean you can do the job the uniform normally asks.

But yes, there are times where Reserves could be put to more active uses. I think the Senior Officers just see the Reserve program as a baby sitting exercise...& its more often than not, just that.

bluetop

EnterNow wrote: »

Because it looks to Joe Public that there are more uniforms out there than there in fact are.

Utilization is a tricky one though, are Reserves prepared to take days off work for court appearances? Do they have the proper legal training & know how to deal with situations on the fly? The territory of a Reserve is a dodgy one, your in a uniform that usually comes with some serious training to wear, I can understand why reserves tend to be kept back somewhat, someone without proper knowledge could easily ruin a case, or make a situation worse. Just because you've completed two weeks in Templemore & passed a few role play exams doesn't mean you can do the job the uniform normally asks.

But yes, there are times where Reserves could be put to more active uses. I think the Senior Officers just see the Reserve program as a baby sitting exercise...& its more often than not, just that.

There is no trick word for utilisation they either use you or dont simple, lots of reserves have gone to court with no problems, if and when you have to go to court you will be given guidance on what to do and say, its not like you are doing a murder case, mostly FCPS or non production of documents that is not rocket science all you do is stand up in court and give your evidence, maybe go to a court and sit in on a few cases and you will see how easy it is.

What training do you need to wear a uniform, remember you are with a full time member all the time so whats the problem there, is he / she not there to guide you.

The jobs you are tasked with are minimal and your training should have been appropriate to that, what are you going to do now with the new powers that will be bis throne to you soon, did you even do the upskilling course, if you are not up to the position or unwilling to learn or afraid to make a mistake which people do first time the reserves is not the place for you, everyone makes mistakes it makes you stronger person and you wont make the same one twice, everything in life is learning curve so is the reserves so dont be afraid of it, repetition is the key word here, do you think full timers came out of templemore knowing everything ? they don't! they are given a tutor guard to help them, this should also have been afforded to reserve members as well and would have integrated the reserves to a better degree.

Myrddin

bluetop wrote: »

There is no trick word for utilisation they either use you or dont simple, lots of reserves have gone to court with no problems, if and when you have to go to court you will be given guidance on what to do and say, its not like you are doing a murder case, mostly FCPS or non production of documents that is not rocket science all you do is stand up in court and give your evidence, maybe go to a court and sit in on a few cases and you will see how easy it is.

As I said above there are times where Reserves could be put to more active uses. FCPS is one of them, but it doesn't always happen. I've spent countless hours doing sweet f/a where I felt my time could have been utilized better. But who am I to question what I've been told to do...you do what your told & go where your told to.

Court isn't about difficulty, its about suitability into a volunteers daily life. If an ongoing case requires a few days of appearances, not too many employers are going to like that. I have been to court on occasion, its quite formulaic & not difficult at all once you know what your doing. Again, its about whether unpaid volunteers should be put in positions where they're going to need days off work & other commitments in order to fulfill volunteer duties. If you need to attent court say five times over a year, are you willing to give up five days of your holidays for this? This is why Reserves are often held back, its better, & more efficient to let someone whos job it is to do something, rather than someone who may or may not be able to follow up with it.

What training do you need to wear a uniform, remember you are with a full time member all the time so whats the problem there, is he / she not there to guide you.

I'm not actually sure if your being serious there, if you are you've a very naive view of how things work within the Reserve program. The Garda uniform comes with a lot of responsibility, & not every full timer sees it as their job to babysit you.

The jobs you are tasked with are minimal and your training should have been appropriate to that, what are you going to do now with the new powers that will be bis throne to you soon, did you even do the upskilling course, if you are not up to the position or unwilling to learn or afraid to make a mistake which people do first time the reserves is not the place for you

What has any of that got to do with better useage of Reserves? Yes I have completed the upskills course, and the newer powers should certainly help a Reserve. Reserves now have specific & laid out public order powers, & as to what I'll do with them? Well it'll remove any doubt I might have previously had in situations that escalate quickly, I know what I can & can't do and that serves to make you a better Reserve.

you think full timers came out of templemore knowing everything ? they don't! they are given a tutor guard to help them, this should also have been afforded to reserve members as well and would have integrated the reserves to a better degree.

No, but a degree in policing is what they come out with. Its a damn sight more involved than a few weeks in the College. Its also a massive help having your own personalised help after training for the full timers...it'd be very nice to have that as a Reserve I agree.

bluetop

EnterNow wrote: »

As I said above there are times where Reserves could be put to more active uses. FCPS is one of them, but it doesn't always happen. I've spent countless hours doing sweet f/a where I felt my time could have been utilized better. But who am I to question what I've been told to do...you do what your told & go where your told to.

Court isn't about difficulty, its about suitability into a volunteers daily life. If an ongoing case requires a few days of appearances, not too many employers are going to like that. I have been to court on occasion, its quite formulaic & not difficult at all once you know what your doing. Again, its about whether unpaid volunteers should be put in positions where they're going to need days off work & other commitments in order to fulfill volunteer duties. If you need to attent court say five times over a year, are you willing to give up five days of your holidays for this? This is why Reserves are often held back, its better, & more efficient to let someone whos job it is to do something, rather than someone who may or may not be able to follow up with it.



I'm not actually sure if your being serious there, if you are you've a very naive view of how things work within the Reserve program. The Garda uniform comes with a lot of responsibility, & not every full timer sees it as their job to babysit you.



What has any of that got to do with better useage of Reserves? Yes I have completed the upskills course, and the newer powers should certainly help a Reserve. Reserves now have specific & laid out public order powers, & as to what I'll do with them? Well it'll remove any doubt I might have previously had in situations that escalate quickly, I know what I can & can't do and that serves to make you a better Reserve.



No, but a degree in policing is what they come out with. Its a damn sight more involved than a few weeks in the College. Its also a massive help having your own personalised help after training for the full timers...it'd be very nice to have that as a Reserve I agree.

If you have to go to court i am quiet sure a letter from your station stating you need to attend would suffice, as for taking a days holidays well that is another matter, you do get an allowance for attending you do know that you have to claim it.

Ask any full timers what they learned in the collage and was the degree to any advantage, they will tell you wast of time, you want experience its on the shop floor not behind a desk or pushing a pen thats for sure.

You should have known from day 1 what you can and cant do so you should have had no doubt about it.

Yes you are correct the uniform does come with a lot of responsibility and if you had not been responsible i am sure you would not be wearing it now, yes i am sure not every full timer wants to hold your hand, too right you should be able to stand your own ground and know what you limits and limitations are in regards to your powers that saying it should not be left to the full timer to tell you, after all you are a grown man/woman who should know themselves.

If you dont want to be in a position of going to court as a volunteer you dont have to sit back and let your colleague do all the work, i am quite sure you wont be out with them again after that, you knew what the job was what it entailed before you signed up for it, its not all about wearing a uniform strutting your stuff and not doing any of the work or court appearances thats all part and parcel of the job regardless of you been an unpaid volunteer you took on the position you have to take the risk involved along with it plus the other stuff you dont want to have to do.

Scenario for you your on the beat you get injured on the job as a volunteer and are off work for 6 months, what will your job say then, ?? no different from going to court a few times a month or a year.

Tyron Jara

bluetop wrote: »

If you have to go to court i am quiet sure a letter from your station stating you need to attend would suffice, as for taking a days holidays well that is another matter, you do get an allowance for attending you do know that you have to claim it.

I think after a week or two of that my boss would tell me decide between the two jobs. Might be easy for a part timer but for anyone out there with family im sure missing a day of work is not on the cards.

Ask any full timers what they learned in the collage and was the degree to any advantage, they will tell you wast of time, you want experience its on the shop floor not behind a desk or pushing a pen thats for sure.

You seem fully convinced about this? Im telling you a degree is exaclty whats needed. REason is the full timers have learned law and studied it and past exams on it. After that expierence is invaluable but only after you know what you can and cannot do!!

Yes you are correct the uniform does come with a lot of responsibility and if you had not been responsible i am sure you would not be wearing it now, yes i am sure not every full timer wants to hold your hand, too right you should be able to stand your own ground and know what you limits and limitations are in regards to your powers that saying it should not be left to the full timer to tell you, after all you are a grown man/woman who should know themselves.

That uniform comes with a lot of responsibility! People needing help run towards that uniform. Reserves are support officers we support fulltimers we are not there to do there job. We do what they say and need us to do without question. Making our own calls without there input is out of the question!!

If you dont want to be in a position of going to court as a volunteer you dont have to sit back and let your colleague do all the work, i am quite sure you wont be out with them again after that, you knew what the job was what it entailed before you signed up for it, its not all about wearing a uniform strutting your stuff and not doing any of the work or court appearances thats all part and parcel of the job regardless of you been an unpaid volunteer you took on the position you have to take the risk involved along with it plus the other stuff you dont want to have to do.

If I have to go to court then so be it. However going to court and sitting back are two different things. WE assist our full time colleagues when they need us we dont hang back. However asking a volunteer who has a 40 hour week done already to give up free time to follow through on cases IMO is insane. Reserve gardai were meant to be SUPPORT officers!!! IF a fulltimer doesnt arrest why should a reserve?

Scenario for you your on the beat you get injured on the job as a volunteer and are off work for 6 months, what will your job say then, ?? no different from going to court a few times a month or a year.

Are you a reserve? Dont make up senarios in your head till youve been out there. Ive been injured and I can tell you its not something you want happening to anyone.

As ive said multiple times Reserve Gardai are support officers for the full timers. Im happy to do files and go to court myself. However many of us are in college and have full time jobs. Your basically saying give up our education and livelihood to go to court whenever for a job that we volunteered for and some of us wil never see fulltime.

However how these new powers are used remains to be seen.

Myrddin

bluetop wrote: »

If you have to go to court i am quiet sure a letter from your station stating you need to attend would suffice, as for taking a days holidays well that is another matter, you do get an allowance for attending you do know that you have to claim it.

And what if your an active Reserve in a busy station, & you've two or three cases every month or two that your involved with. Couple that with a full time job, a family & a life outside of all that. Its just not practical to have Reserves in positions where it can affect all of that. This isn't a complaint about the system, its the reason why Reserves are kept as support officers as Tyron very rightly said.

Ask any full timers what they learned in the collage and was the degree to any advantage, they will tell you wast of time, you want experience its on the shop floor not behind a desk or pushing a pen thats for sure.

On the ground is the only way you can get experience for a career in policing. However, the degree & knowledge that comes with it will give anyone who has it a 'comfort-zone' of knowledge. I don't know about you, but I'm a far better worker when I know the confines & limitations of the role. Reserve training is extremely fast-tracked, & I can't speak for everyone but when I started out first in the uniform it was quite a daunting prospect.

You should have known from day 1 what you can and cant do so you should have had no doubt about it.

We were told what we can & can't do, but don't for a minute think that fits nicely in with what your faced with & what your asked and tasked with doing. A lot of skippers havn't a notion of what a Reserve can & can't do, and full timers have even less of an idea. Your very often put in situations you havn't trained for, and/or don't have the legal remit to be doing in the first place. Again this isn't a complaint about the system, just an observation. There's definitely room for improvement.

Yes you are correct the uniform does come with a lot of responsibility and if you had not been responsible i am sure you would not be wearing it now, yes i am sure not every full timer wants to hold your hand, too right you should be able to stand your own ground and know what you limits and limitations are in regards to your powers that saying it should not be left to the full timer to tell you, after all you are a grown man/woman who should know themselves.

Speaking for myself I was very conscious of not leaning on the full timers. It's not their job to babysit you, & rightly so. Where I'm based, its one of the roughest parts of Dublin & I can't expect the full timers to watch themselves, watch the situation, & watch me at the same time. By the time you have your uniform, its assumed your ready to learn on your feet. You seem to be under the impression I'm complaining about the system or something, I'm not. This is just how it works. You learn with every call you go to, you concentrate, listen & watch everything and before long you can offer the same level of support as you see your full time colleagues offering. Its a fantastic thing to see first hand, & a privilege to help.

If you dont want to be in a position of going to court as a volunteer you dont have to sit back and let your colleague do all the work, i am quite sure you wont be out with them again after that, you knew what the job was what it entailed before you signed up for it, its not all about wearing a uniform strutting your stuff and not doing any of the work or court appearances thats all part and parcel of the job regardless of you been an unpaid volunteer you took on the position you have to take the risk involved along with it plus the other stuff you dont want to have to do.

I think your mixing up what the Reserve is there for, we're not full timers not matter how much we want to be. We are there to offer support roles to full time Gardai, and as such the system takes this into account. For the record I'm out of work at the moment, & would happily go to court every day...but I'm speaking for the larger part of the Reserves who have jobs, families, lives...the Reserve system offers them a chance to help out...its not there to make you feel like a Guard.

Scenario for you your on the beat you get injured on the job as a volunteer and are off work for 6 months, what will your job say then, ?? no different from going to court a few times a month or a year.

That all depends on your employer doesn't it? If your injured your injured, sure you could be injured going to the shops too couldn't you? But taking court days every few months I suspect wouldn't wash very well at all with most employers - and thats why the Reserve isn't expected to be a replacement for a full timer, we're there to help out & support...nothing more nothing less.

Again, none of this is a complaint or a rant about Reserves being wasted, the system protects your life outside of the Reserve program, thats why it seems we're not utilized. There are ways we could be put to more/better use, & this will come with time.