Wedge Play

FixdePitchmark

Lads a bit of help.

I've been playing poor wedges and think it is my swing. I tend to put it up to 10 yrds left of flag. Not all the time , but not good enough to be in for birdies. I'm wasting great chances on par 4s.

I started thinking that my back swing is too wide. I know looking at these clips is a bit like chasing your tale. But he points to something i was thinking.

Any ideas on the path of the club coming back for for wedges ? What do you think of this ?

dines08

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Lads a bit of help.

I've been playing poor wedges and think it is my swing. I tend to put it up to 10 yrds left of flag. Not all the time , but not good enough to be in for birdies. I'm wasting great chances on par 4s.

I started thinking that my back swing is too wide. I know looking at these clips is a bit like chasing your tale. But he points to something i was thinking.

Any ideas on the path of the club coming back for for wedges ? What do you think of this ?

Are your clubs adjusted for lie angle?
Reason I ask this is I got custom fitted for my irons and they are 3 degrees upright. My wedges are standard off the shelf and always fade 5/10 yards. Put that down to them not being adjusted and hitting toe first which opens the face.

FixdePitchmark

dines08 wrote: »

Are your clubs adjusted for lie angle?
Reason I ask this is I got custom fitted for my irons and they are 3 degrees upright. My wedges are standard off the shelf and always fade 5/10 yards. Put that down to them not being adjusted and hitting toe first which opens the face.

Off shelf,

I think it is the angle i am moving away from ball is too straight back. I seen in a golf world you should try take away at angle of back face.

Changing my lie angle would be a new level for me - I don't know maybe that is the sort of thing I need to start thinking about when you are trying to get to single figures.

GreeBo

where do your divots point?

FixdePitchmark

To left and deep after strike. (i thinK)

I will look at that a bit more and report back.

GreeBo

so sounds like you are just cutting across them...
possibly by trying to hit them too hard...never forsake accuracy for distance with a scoring club.

FixdePitchmark

I will look at all the things I've changed in swing and see if there is a problem with my wedge swing.

Will ease off a bit.

Check grip and posture.

Check divots more and report back.

I guess it is a good sign in a way if you are looking at wedge accuracy (take the positive )

But the number of time I have 100 yrds in and don't have a tap in birdie proves I have a problem. I can't remember the last 100 yrd wegde I hit to stone dead. That is in maybe 10 rounds.

I'm spending 70 % on short game these days so noticing how it is not up to scratch, just hitting greens from 100 yds is not where you should be at.

GreeBo

Best in the world average over 12 feet from inside 100yards and hit < 90% of GIR from 125 yards and in.

stockdam

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

To left and deep after strike. (i thinK)

I will look at that a bit more and report back.

Also check your alignment. You may be standing with your shoulders open. Try hitting some shots with a feeling that your shoulders are slightly closed (just to see if that helps a bit......I'm not saying to close the shoulders but maybe you may feel that they are closed when they are square).

Maybe get some help in your setup. Get somebody to check your alignment and whether your hands are too far back.

Barnaboy

I have bad habit of pulling my irons left as well. Pretty sure that my left arm doesn't remain stiff enough meaning that I bend my elbow a small bit and the trajectory of the club changes causing the slight hook.

ernieprice

If your divots are aiming left then it is very likely you are coming over the top and the result is the ball going to the right.

Kace

Another easy way to get an indication of whether your lie angle is correct is to simply put a piece of impact tape (or simply masking tape) on the face, then hit 4 or 5 balls. If the primary impact area is left of where it should be (centre) then this indicates too flat a lie. If the shots are consistently towards the toe then your lie is too upright.

If your strikes are in the middle then you should look elsewhere for your issue.

Interesting but simple test - try it. Obviously the above assumes what you would sense to be normal clean hits.

Rikand

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

To left and deep after strike. (i thinK)

I will look at that a bit more and report back.

have you tried laying a club down parallel with your intended target line.

balls going left and divots pointing left.

I had this problem and discovered it was simply my alignment, i was aiming further left with my feet and club than i realised and by putting down a club to line myself up with and practicing regularly it sorted it out that I dont do it anymore.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

Best in the world average over 12 feet from inside 100yards and hit < 90% of GIR from 125 yards and in.

Good stat. But the point I'm making is - over ten rounds we should get one within 4 feet. You should be getting one close. If not, you are doing something wrong.

FixdePitchmark

Ok

Hit 100 wedges. First 15 to 100 yrd marker, all just on left edge or 10 to 15 yrds left.

Check grip , ok
Check Line to parallel of target ok

After what people had said about lie , I checked toe, it was noticeably raised.

This pushed me back to a lesson I had recently about my posture, I worked on getting more upright, getting hands below shoulders. Noticed toe now touching mat, much easier to see straighter lines. More weight on balls of feet. Noticed a higher flight too (I think, was dark).

Unbelievable improvement, hitting green most of the time, very close 2 in 10.

I guess this is great news, gives me something to work off , but it raises questions about the lie angle of my wedges and even my clubs. Most likely it just proves that the problem throughout my game could be to do with posture

But when is it lie angle / equipment issue or a posture problem ? I don’t know much about this lie angle craic.

I guess I should just go to a pro, but it was nice to be able to get results from a range session , rather than banging balls and getting nothing out of it, I was aware of lie angle, but never imagined that had anything to do with me. That was for pros and dudes who are off 2 or 3.

Maybe , I just need to be hitting more wedges , during more range sessions.:p

FixdePitchmark

It is so bleeding obvious now.

thegolfer

I wouldn't worry too much about lie angle, unless you are taller than normal, standard off the shelf should suit you.
You say that your divots are point left, as stated earlier, your possibly coming over the top, hitting it too hard, or else your alignment is out.
Feet should be aiming slightly left of the flag, this allows a natural release of the hands down the line.
Aiming straight or slightly right of the flag, you try and pull the ball and club left, thus a coming over the top action. A good pre routine can sort this out.
Take a wedge, and work on three swings, each of different length, say 9 o'clock, 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock. These swings will hit the ball about 45, 60, 75 yards. If you have 3 wedges that's 9 different distances, and you will seldom if ever have to hit a full out wedge.

Rikand

thegolfer wrote: »

You say that your divots are point left, as stated earlier, your possibly coming over the top, hitting it too hard, or else your alignment is out.
.

divots pointing left... if the heel of his club was going into the ground because of the lie of the club, could that have been just with the heel hitting the turf first rather than the flat of the club, the club was pulling left and creating divots to the left ?



@fixde - glad to hear you went back to something you learned from your coach and improved your posture. Its one of the changes I have been making this year with my Pro and my quality of strike has improved massively. with my pitching aswell as my long game.

FixdePitchmark

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

divots pointing left... if the heel of his club was going into the ground because of the lie of the club, could that have been just with the heel hitting the turf first rather than the flat of the club, the club was pulling left and creating divots to the left ?



@fixde - glad to hear you went back to something you learned from your coach and improved your posture. Its one of the changes I have been making this year with my Pro and my quality of strike has improved massively. with my pitching aswell as my long game.

I would need to hit course again and look at divots, I've changed a good bit over the last few weeks, i did see part of the divot deep. Will look again.

I know lie does not solve eveything, but i think i was improving posture by getting club flat. Great strikes too.

Hit a few 7 irons , again getting toe to ground. If I get anything out of it , it is easy way for me to say I am standing in good posture.

Will see how it goes.

thegolfer

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

divots pointing left... if the heel of his club was going into the ground because of the lie of the club, could that have been just with the heel hitting the turf first rather than the flat of the club, the club was pulling left and creating divots to the left ?



@fixde - glad to hear you went back to something you learned from your coach and improved your posture. Its one of the changes I have been making this year with my Pro and my quality of strike has improved massively. with my pitching aswell as my long game.

Heel hitting the ground first causes the club face to close on impact. Heel slows down, toe travels faster, thus closing the face, resulting in a hook. This is with a normal swing plane.
The fact that the divot is pointing left indicates an over the top, or out to in swing.
It's trying to hit the ball from the top of the swing.
Each swing should be the same, just longer or shorter depending on distance required.

FixdePitchmark

thegolfer wrote: »

Heel hitting the ground first causes the club face to close on impact. Heel slows down, toe travels faster, thus closing the face, resulting in a hook. This is with a normal swing plane.
The fact that the divot is pointing left indicates an over the top, or out to in swing.
It's trying to hit the ball from the top of the swing.
Each swing should be the same, just longer or shorter depending on distance required.

I'm a mess, I do have an old over the top problem, and this has been what I've been trying to get rid of for 6 months.

But what you say in the first paragragh sounds exactly what was hapening . Sure the proof was in the results, once I got toe flat, it was nice and straight.

Could be more than one thing going on. Will let ye know what divots are like the next day with more upright posture (correct posture).

thegolfer

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'm a mess, I do have an old over the top problem, and this has been what I've been trying to get rid of for 6 months.

But what you say in the first paragragh sounds exactly what was hapening . Sure the proof was in the results, once I got toe flat, it was nice and straight.

Could be more than one thing going on. Will let ye know what divots are like the next day with more upright posture (correct posture).

One more thing to consider is the bounce on your wedges, high v's low bounce. A low bounce in wet conditions will cause club to dig into the ground, where as high bounce enables the club to bounce off the turf, and promote a shallower divot. Low bounce great for hard fast courses such as links, and high bounce for bunker play and softer parkland courses.

You may have the swing right, but the conditions are too soft to tell...

kagni

thegolfer wrote: »

Heel hitting the ground first causes the club face to close on impact. Heel slows down, toe travels faster, thus closing the face, resulting in a hook.

Not trying to be awkward but the heel or the toe hitting the ground first is not the reason a wrong lie angle causes the ball to go left or right. The same problem would happen if you hit the ball off a tee.
The problem is that a too upright lie means that the clubface is pointing left of the target, this is the same as what happens on a sidehill lie when the ball is above your feet. The ball goes left because that is where the clubface is pointing.

onlyfinewine

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'm a mess, I do have an old over the top problem, and this has been what I've been trying to get rid of for 6 months.

But what you say in the first paragraph sounds exactly what was happening . Sure the proof was in the results, once I got toe flat, it was nice and straight.

Could be more than one thing going on. Will let ye know what divots are like the next day with more upright posture (correct posture).

You posted on post #16 that it was obvious, and you were right.


So either the club gets made flatter or you stand more upright, or a combo.

K.I.S.S. Worry about the other things once you have fixed the primary problem.

FixdePitchmark

onlyfinewine wrote: »

You posted on post #16 that it was obvious, and you were right.


So either the club gets made flatter or you stand more upright, or a combo.

K.I.S.S. Worry about the other things once you have fixed the primary problem.

I'd never refuse a kiss.;)

Yes agree, I got results straight away, but if it was due to lie angle or forcing me to stand with correct posture is up for debate. Standing in the correct posture changes you swing plane , then that is another days work.

It is just easier to change one thing and look at results. But, I understand why people change lie angle of clubs now. I'm not at that level but was a good education. We all have different arm lengths etc.

You tube can do your head in , for every answer, some other bloke has another angle. But a good point is the bow of the club, this bloke is saying toe needs to be up a small bit to allow for this - but wedges would be a slow club head speed club ? , less bow ?

Sorry K.I.S.S (ignore all that )

This is the last bloody you tube clip. I'm just going to work on posture, stand taller, get hands away from thighs.

Milkers

Other than the fact he sometimes takes 5 minutes to explain something you could easily explain in 1 minute, that Paul Wilson chap in the last clip is really a great teacher. Mark Crossfield also excellent.

onlyfinewine

Originally Posted by FixdePitchmark
You tube can do your head in , for every answer, some other bloke has another angle. But a good point is the bow of the club, this bloke is saying toe needs to be up a small bit to allow for this - but wedges would be a slow club head speed club ? , less bow ?

When you check with the impact tape (Masking tape) you are already allowing for the bow of the club at impact because you are swinging the club while checking, so you can disregard the static toe up advice on the video.

In my view if the ball is going left with the short irons it is 90 per cent probable that the lie needs to be made flatter as the body habits tend to be constant and if you have a tendency to have low hands you will probably continue to swing in this fashion unless you re-train your body posture.

However the impact tape is easy to do and should be the first thing you check. Come back when that is done and let us know how you get on.

stockdam

kagni wrote: »

Not trying to be awkward but the heel or the toe hitting the ground first is not the reason a wrong lie angle causes the ball to go left or right. The same problem would happen if you hit the ball off a tee.
The problem is that a too upright lie means that the clubface is pointing left of the target, this is the same as what happens on a sidehill lie when the ball is above your feet. The ball goes left because that is where the clubface is pointing.

And this affect is most pronounced with a higher loft. If the toe of a wedge is raised off the ground then you will tend to pull the ball......this won't be as noticeable with say a 4 iron.

onlyfinewine

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegolfer View Post
Heel hitting the ground heel first causes the club face to close on impact. Heel slows down, toe travels faster, thus closing the face, resulting in a hook.

It is likely if there is a persistent heel strike that the club is too upright, unless the ground conditions caused it (Ball below feet on a slope)

Originally Posted by kagni View Post
Not trying to be awkward but the heel or the toe hitting the ground first is not the reason a wrong lie angle causes the ball to go left or right. The same problem would happen if you hit the ball off a tee.

You should get a more pronounced shot to the left if the heel catches the ground before the ball is struck while playing from the ground.

stockdam wrote: »

And this affect is most pronounced with a higher loft. If the toe of a wedge is raised off the ground then you will tend to pull the ball......this won't be as noticeable with say a 4 iron.

All three posts are correct and they work in tandem also! Having the wrong lie on your clubs also tends to make you set up in an incorrect posture which also causes consequent swing problems.

FixdePitchmark

onlyfinewine wrote: »

When you check with the impact tape (Masking tape) you are already allowing for the bow of the club at impact because you are swinging the club while checking, so you can disregard the static toe up advice on the video.

In my view if the ball is going left with the short irons it is 90 per cent probable that the lie needs to be made flatter as the body habits tend to be constant and if you have a tendency to have low hands you will probably continue to swing in this fashion unless you re-train your body posture.

However the impact tape is easy to do and should be the first thing you check. Come back when that is done and let us know how you get on.

Can I do the impact tape at range ?


How ?

FixdePitchmark

onlyfinewine wrote: »

It is likely if there is a persistent heel strike that the club is too upright, unless the ground conditions caused it (Ball below feet on a slope)



You should get a more pronounced shot to the left if the heel catches the ground before the ball is struck while playing from the ground.




All three posts are correct and they work in tandem also! Having the wrong lie on your clubs also tends to make you set up in an incorrect posture which also causes consequent swing problems.

Thanks OFW - do you have your lies on your clubs set.

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Can I do the impact tape at range ?


How ?

You need something hard/firm that will cause a mark, a range mat has too much give and will mark all of the sole.
I've used a bit of plywood before, you want it to be thin though, otherwise its altering the lie itself. (unless you get a similar piece and stand on it...)

spacecoyote

When I went for an iron fitting it was white tape hitting against what was essentially like a small piece of blackboard. I'd imagine any thin hard material would do the job though

onlyfinewine

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Can I do the impact tape at range ?


How ?

You can do the impact tape at home, just swing on a mat with nylon in it and you will be able to see where it makes contact with the sole of the club. You can use the masking tape if you are not sure of the marking by the mat, but don't tell the wife I told you to do it.

GreeBo

I went out for a sneaky 18 holes yesterday and noticed (again) that my wedges were a bit right and the divots were deeper on the outside. Remembering this thread I figured that I must have the toe down at impact...so...not having a loft and lie machine with me I decided to just stand an inch or so further away.

Night and day to how I was hitting my wedges before I have to say. Much nicer contact and divots much more uniform depth. Maybe give this a go before you get the wedges bent?

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

I went out for a sneaky 18 holes yesterday and noticed (again) that my wedges were a bit right and the divots were deeper on the outside. Remembering this thread I figured that I must have the toe down at impact...so...not having a loft and lie machine with me I decided to just stand an inch or so further away.

Night and day to how I was hitting my wedges before I have to say. Much nicer contact and divots much more uniform depth. Maybe give this a go before you get the wedges bent?

GreeBo - I know you are not in the retraction business too often. But what do you think of your quote now.

"Trying to find out why you are not leaving them within 4 feet from 100 yards when you are not getting up and down enough is crazy IMO"


I've been working on my posture to achieve the same. You won't have as many up and downs now thanks to me.

Only joking, but if you have any more problems with your game, give us a shout - no problem. :D


I await, for a good kick in the hole back - Enjoying my week off from golf. Dying to get back.

PARlance

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

if you have any more problems with your game, give us a shout - no problem. :D

Please see My Life (Sub 80) Thread for someone that needs your help......

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

GreeBo - I know you are not in the retraction business too often. But what do you think of your quote now.

"Trying to find out why you are not leaving them within 4 feet from 100 yards when you are not getting up and down enough is crazy IMO"


I've been working on my posture to achieve the same. You won't have as many up and downs now thanks to me.

Only joking, but if you have any more problems with your game, give us a shout - no problem. :D


I await, for a good kick in the hole back - Enjoying my week off from golf. Dying to get back.

Maybe Im missing something, it has happened before (though usually its 3 foot putts...) but what am I retracting exactly?

I was playing a casual round and tinkered with something, I still spend the majority of my practice time on short game, thats how you break 80.

Oh and let me know when you do first break 80, we can compare notes on how we did it...if I can find mine....from all those years ago...

FixdePitchmark

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Please see My Life (Sub 80) Thread for someone that needs your help......

(lol) [:D]

aj and GreeBo.

Don't worry lads, I am sufficiently psychotic to give myself help.

A week off - just practiced guitar for the week . Can't get up and down for **** - but can play Tonight Tonight by Smashing Pumpkins.
Need to find something I can do - is there a Guitar forum on here ?

My Life ( With 4 chords) But problems with Fm.

PARlance

How good are you Up and Down the fretboard???