Evans Waterless Coolant Group Buy

goz83

SUBJECT TO MOD APPROVAL. PRICES ARE EX UK VAT @ 20%. Price may decrease if enough people order.

Hello Guys.

I'm organising a group buy scheme for the Evan Waterless coolant. For those of you who don't know the stuff, Google is your friend, but i've put a couple of videos below for you. The short story is that this stuff replaces your water coolant, prevents overheating much better and stops the corrosion caused by water coolant.

A coolant flush is highly recommended and then you put in the waterless coolant. 5 litres of the flush is normall £35GBP and 5 litres of the coolant is normally £55GBP. Delivery of both will normally cost €125.

I have secured a group buy price of €75 for 5 litres of each fluid (power prep & Power Cool) delivered to Dublin. 5 litres may not cover your car, so you will need to check the coolant capacity before ordering. The Mitsubishi FTO takes 6.5 litres. It seems that most cars take between 6 and 10 litres, but do check, just in case. If you need 10 litres of each, the cost would be an extra €65 (€140 total). Delivery cost is only once. The shipment will land at my home in North Dublin and arrangements can be made after that for collection, or delivery to buyers. Payment can be made by PayPal, or Bank Transfer. I will PM one of the Motor Mods who can verify me, so you know this is genuine. I'm a member of fto-ireland and thought I might extend this group buy offer.

The great thing is that coolant is supposed to last the life of the car and could prevent a lot of problems, including early death of water pump, due to corrosion and may keep the head gasket from exploding, due to over heating

Feel free to ask any questions. The prices are not the the exact cent, because rate fluctuations and I don't have exact figures of buyers, but the prices above will not be higher. Its approx €65 for each 10 litres (5 of prep fluid & 5 of coolant). Delivery is averaged at €10 per person. I've capped delivery cost, so if you need more than 10 litres, you don't pay extra delivery. PM me for more info, or payment details.

DELIVERY WILL COME TO ME and we can arrange collection, or delivery to you after that. I'm based In D13. Group buy closes Friday 23rd November at 3pm.

TestTransmission

Have you asked a mod about this group buy?

Our man in Havana

What are the antifreeze properties of this liquid?

Coolant / anti freeze products have corrosion inhibitors, water pumps failing due to corrosion ?? How often does that happen ? Cooling systems complete with coolant prevent overheating. Can't imagine there are enough people willing to partake in this if this tack leaks out the hg is in the same boat as if there was normal coolant in the system.

Marlow

Also, you might want to check with Evans. There is an irish supplier for these products.

/M

Marlow

RoverJames wrote: »

Coolant / anti freeze products have corrosion inhibitors, water pumps failing due to corrosion ?? How often does that happen ? Cooling systems complete with coolant prevent overheating. Can't imagine there are enough people willing to partake in this if this tack leaks out the hg is in the same boat as if there was normal coolant in the system.

Actually, water less coolant makes a whole lot of sense. Maybe not for a car driven daily, as it's fairly expensive.

It makes a lot of sense for classics, campervans and motorsport vehicles, that are parked up for weeks or months at a time. Simply because, when the coolant isn't circulated, you'll occur more corrosion. And with expensive classics especially, replacement rads and cooling system parts can be hard to get.

Also, another thing with Evans is, that it's not toxic. Normal coolant, if it drips on the ground and your kids touch it and then stick the hand in their mouth or your animals (dogs/cats for example) lick it up, it's poison for them. Evans is not.

There's plenty of good reasons to use it.

/M

goz83

TestTransmission wrote: »

Have you asked a mod about this group buy?

No. The group buy is via one of the suppliers ad I have spoken to the supplier, requesting quotes for a group buy. The above sums are the result of this and a minimum purchase of 90 litres of fluid (45L of each)

If there is any problem here, I do apologise and the thread can be closed.

All the information about the coolant is in the videos, on on the evans coolant site. The big attraction for me is a higher boiling point and never having to change the coolant again.

Evans UK were also contacted and a group buy scheme was offered, but the more local supplier was able to offer it for much less.

Marlow

At 95l per coolant type, you'd need to find between 10 and 20 participants PER TYPE coolant.

That might be aiming a bit high.

/M

goz83

Marlow wrote: »

At 95l per coolant type, you'd need to find between 10 and 20 participants PER TYPE coolant.

That might be aiming a bit high.

/M

Sorry. I fixed above post.

The price is subject to a minimum of 45 litres of each (90L total) being ordered.

We're up to 50 litres as it is and that's with only 3 people. I am purchasing 10 litres of each if I need to. People can share if need be, which is an option to save another few quid.If only 6 or 7 litres of each is needed, people can chip in and share.

bmstuff

I am a supplier of this waterless coolant but I am not pushing it anymore after it turned out engines will run a good bit hotter. While the properties are attractive, running hotter will create other issues. Good engines have some tolerance, while others not so much.

My 2 cents

Marlow

goz83 wrote: »

The price is subject to a minimum of 45 litres of each (90L total) being ordered.

We're up to 50 litres as it is and that's with only 3 people. I am purchasing 10 litres of each if I need to. People can share if need be, which is an option to save another few quid.If only 6 or 7 litres of each is needed, people can chip in and share.

I'd still check with the irish dealer of Evans as the prices I've been quoted are lower than the normal pricing you stated above and you'd be able to pick the stuff up locally.

/M

bmstuff

Additionally there is no need for coolant flush. This is just a fancy product to make more money.
There is free ways out there to flush coolant out of a car.
Use good sense.

Our man in Havana

What is the freezing point?

Kenny Logins

Radiator fan-on time, which draws in the range of 25 horsepower, can be cut more than 50 percent. This saves about 1.37 gallons of diesel per hour of fan run time.

http://www.evanscooling.com/heavy-duty/benefits/

What?

Marlow

Kenny Logins wrote: »

http://www.evanscooling.com/heavy-duty/benefits/

What?

That's the heavy duty section, referring to plant equipment, trucks etc. and makes perfectly sense.

The fan uses electricity, which will result in higher fuel consumption. Due to the higher boiling point, the fans kick in later.

/M

goz83

Marlow wrote: »

I'd still check with the irish dealer of Evans as the prices I've been quoted are lower than the normal pricing you stated above and you'd be able to pick the stuff up locally.

/M

Have done. (edit) prices were ex vat. Prices still much cheaper than other sources, including the ROI dealer. Always ask over the phone if price is including VAT. Usually it does not.

bmstuff wrote: »

Additionally there is no need for coolant flush. This is just a fancy product to make more money.
There is free ways out there to flush coolant out of a car.
Use good sense.

I looked into this. I agree it's a very pricey flush, but the feedback is that it removes all water, leaving no traces. I know its not absolutely necessary, but if you want to get the best from this stuff....it's worth doing it right.

Once we hit the minimum mark, which is only 2, or 3 more people, then it's an open market. People can order just the coolant if the want. 5 litres of the coolant on its own would be €50 and every additional bottle would be €40. If people don't want the flush, they don't have to order it.

Marlow

goz83 wrote: »

Have done. I can have vat removed at source from UK supplier, which made all the difference.

Actually not. Because once you hand that over to somebody else, you need to charge irish VAT, which is higher.

If you don't do that, then you see yourself in legal/revenue trouble.

Either you pay UK VAT and buy it privately or as a non-VAT registered sole trader. Or you get the stuff VAT excempt, being VAT registered, over EU VAT regulation and charge VAT on selling it on.

/M

goz83

Our man in Havana wrote: »

What is the freezing point?

There are different types, but I think this is what you might be looking for.

http://contrails.free.fr/temp/ECS_Instructions.pdf

bmstuff

goz83 wrote: »

Have done. I can have vat removed at source from UK supplier, which made all the difference.



I looked into this. I agree it's a very pricey flush, but the feedback is that it removes all water, leaving no traces. I know its not absolutely necessary, but if you want to get the best from this stuff....it's worth doing it right.

Once we hit the minimum mark, which is only 2, or 3 more people, then it's an open market. People can order just the coolant if the want. 5 litres of the coolant on its own would be €50 and every additional bottle would be €40. If people don't want the flush, they don't have to order it.

20% vat removed and 23% vat added :-)

You know how to push out water out of a pipe, I dont need to draw a picture. Get a good air compressor, leave the car sitting overnight in a dry place.

Believe me, the flushing product is totally useless, it has been established.

goz83

Marlow wrote: »

Actually not. Because once you hand that over to somebody else, you need to charge irish VAT, which is higher.

If you don't do that, then you see yourself in legal/revenue trouble.

Either you pay UK VAT and buy it privately or as a non-VAT registered sole trader. Or you get the stuff VAT excempt, being VAT registered, over EU VAT regulation and charge VAT on selling it on.

/M

I will double check all the info, thanks. Once all the interested parties are in, I can give final breakdown. If only a dozen people order, I could pay the UK vat and keep the prices as they are. I fully expect this to be the case, but thanks again. I'm not selling this stuff and i'm not a dealer, or supplier. I'm just passing on a good price if we meet the quota.

goz83

bmstuff wrote: »

20% vat removed and 23% vat added :-)

You know how to push out water out of a pipe, I dont need to draw a picture. Get a good air compressor, leave the car sitting overnight in a dry place.

Believe me, the flushing product is totally useless, it has been established.

I happen to own an air compressor, but i'm sure many people don't. If the drain plug is opened to drain the coolant, would there not be a few millilitres left in the system? I ask, because I'm not the expert by any means.

Evans do say that their coolant can take up to 3% water left in the system, but |I would personally prefer nothing is left in there.

mathepac

How does this stuff fit with the "coolant for life" motor suppliers like VW? Will using Evans' coolant mess-up manufacturer warranties.

I have doubts about the claims regarding water pump corrosion. IME water-pump failure these days is often due to disintegration of the plastic impellers if they are not changed in accordance with the manufacturer's schedule. If the impellers are given a limited life in the original coolant, how does Evans' stuff effect them?

goz83

OK. I'm going to be safe here. Add 20% UK vat to above prices making it safe. That's €90 for an order of 5L of each fluid. If interested PM me.

I expect that if enough people are interested, I can get the prices down to, or below the original prices. It won't take many people to build the requirement quota, but I may have to limit the amount I am going to order, as it will be delivered to my house. I don't want to be taking a pallet of this stuff into the house.

knifey_spoonie

Im Just wondering when you rang the Irish dealer, Its just i havn't had any phone calls in the last week regarding it, and im not aware of anyone else taking a query. (granted ive been out of the office today).

Im going to leave it at that, as i know im threading on thin ice regarding shilling.

goz83

There is more than 1, but can you pm me your info?

Drummerboy08

Jaysus lads, there's more retailers than buyers in this thread?!

Chris_Heilong

I don't think Goz is trying to make a profit here, this stuff was on Wheeler dealer and looks interesting.

Marlow

Marlow wrote: »

..........

It makes a lot of sense for classics, campervans and motorsport vehicles, that are parked up for weeks or months at a time. Simply because, when the coolant isn't circulated, you'll occur more corrosion. And with expensive classics especially, replacement rads and cooling system parts can be hard to get.

Also, another thing with Evans is, that it's not toxic...............

When not circulating how does this tack provide more protection against corrosion than a traditional coolant (that would be alkaline as there's inhibitors in it) mixed with water in the correct ratio and within the recommended service life?

My post was more in regard to your run of the mill car that is used regularly and the points made about increased HG protection and the water pump failure due to corrosion would be nothing short of utter horse sh1t imo

Good to see some more info about the stuff both pros and cons being made though, to help folks make a more informed choice.

goz83

Hi RJ. The only negative review i've seen on this stuff was from an American Truck driver who had it in his rig for a few years. He said he changed it out for another coolant when he noticed the evans coolant looked different from when he put it in originally. I can't personally vouch for the stuff, but I will be buying some for my car. I might reconsider the prep fluid, because I do have an air compressor to help remove the trapped water.

I'll let Marlow answer what you asked him though.

goz83

goz83 wrote: »

Hi RJ. ...........

The stuff may have it's advantages but two of the ones you mentioned in the first post don't have any credible basis that I can see, in fact BM stuff mentions some cars runs hotter with this stuff in them so how that offers increased protection to a HG is beyond me tbh, and also the water pump protection due to preventing it fail from corrosion is another one I'm struggling to fathom

If the main advantage is the fact it never degrades than that's fair enough

goz83

I would say go off the technical document I linked earlier if that helps. I can't stand over any claims and I can't recall where I read, or heard that it improves the life of the w/pump. It could be in the Jay Leno video? I'm not sure.

bmstuff

RoverJames wrote: »

and also the water pump protection due to preventing it fail from corrosion is another one I'm struggling to fathom

If the main advantage is the fact it never degrades than that's fair enough

This is what marketing is about. Telling lies so people believe you and buy your products.

But hey keep in mind because there is no water anymore, there is no more corrosion nonetheless. This is a fact. But in all those years I never seen a coolant system component failing because of corrosion, as you are saying. Not saying it does not happen, but usually this is more a problem around impellers and gaskets like you say.

Marlow

RoverJames wrote: »

When not circulating how does this tack provide more protection against corrosion than a traditional coolant (that would be alkaline as there's inhibitors in it) mixed with water in the correct ratio and within the recommended service life?

My post was more in regard to your run of the mill car that is used regularly and the points made about increased HG protection and the water pump failure due to corrosion would be nothing short of utter horse sh1t imo

Good to see some more info about the stuff both pros and cons being made though, to help folks make a more informed choice.

Watch that Jay Leno video. It's well explained. The major cause of corrosion is actually the water content in coolant. Because there is no water content in Evans, there is no cause for corrosion.

/M

knifey_spoonie

In all research ive read suggest the car runs 3-5oC hotter. This may be any issue if you are still using normal water based coolant. Take it that and engine runs around 91oC add 5oC to that your not that far away from the 110oC boiling point of water under normal pressure in the engines cooling system.

Your HG doesn't fail at 100oC or even 110oC it takes much more. But what does happen at these temperatures is the water based coolant in your engine turns to steam. Once it turns to steam it is no longer transfering heat and cooling your engine.

While with evans your engine runs hotter, that makes very little odds as evans remains liquid to 180oC and still transfer heat up to this point.

Hope this makes sense

bmstuff

bmstuff wrote: »

This is what marketing is about. Telling lies so people believe you and buy your products.

But hey keep in mind because there is no water anymore, there is no more corrosion nonetheless. This is a fact. But in all those years I never seen a coolant system component failing because of corrosion, as you are saying. Not saying it does not happen, but usually this is more a problem around impellers and gaskets like you say.

Indeed.

Marlow wrote: »

Watch that Jay Leno video. It's well explained. The major cause of corrosion is actually the water content in coolant. Because there is no water content in Evans, there is no cause for corrosion.

/M

The video doesn't explain it at all well to be fair, the video shows a badly corroded piece of aluminium alledgedly due to water in the coolant, there are plenty of engines out there with lots of aluminium in them that are protected by traditional water/coolant mixes with appropriate inhibitors and there is no corrosion once the coolant is changed within advised timelines

Marlow

RoverJames wrote: »

The video doesn't explain it at all well to be fair, the video shows a badly corroded piece of aluminium alledgedly due to water in the coolant, there are plenty of engines out there with lots of aluminium in them that are protected by traditional water/coolant mixes with appropriate inhibitors and there is no corrosion once the coolant is changed within advised timelines

But the difference would be, that the inhibitors degrade over time, while the fact, that there is no water in Evans does, that it's first of all lifetime coolant and second of all no inhibitors are needed in the first place.

/M

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

When not circulating how does this tack provide more protection against corrosion than a traditional coolant (that would be alkaline as there's inhibitors in it) mixed with water in the correct ratio and within the recommended service life?

..............

Marlow wrote: »

Watch that Jay Leno video. It's well explained. The major cause of corrosion is actually the water content in coolant. Because there is no water content in Evans, there is no cause for corrosion.

/M

RoverJames wrote: »

...........



The video doesn't explain it at all well to be fair, the video shows a badly corroded piece of aluminium alledgedly due to water in the coolant, there are plenty of engines out there with lots of aluminium in them that are protected by traditional water/coolant mixes with appropriate inhibitors and there is no corrosion once the coolant is changed within advised timelines

Marlow wrote: »

But the difference would be, that the inhibitors degrade over time, while the fact, that there is no water in Evans does, that it's first of all lifetime coolant and second of all no inhibitors are needed in the first place.

/M

So to answer my actual question, there is no difference and this stuff doesn't offer any superior corrosion protection to a system treated with traditional coolant/water mix changed within advised timelines ???

Chris_Heilong

RoverJames wrote: »

Indeed.



The video doesn't explain it at all well to be fair, the video shows a badly corroded piece of aluminium alledgedly due to water in the coolant, there are plenty of engines out there with lots of aluminium in them that are protected by traditional water/coolant mixes with appropriate inhibitors and there is no corrosion once the coolant is changed within advised timelines

The wheeler dealer episode I saw it on was the one with the Triumph TR6, maybe they explain in more detail. So far the big positives seem to be: higher boiling point, lower freezing point, only use once, non toxic. Negatives: its really expensive.

Marlow

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

The wheeler dealer episode I saw it on was the one with the Triumph TR6, maybe they explain in more detail. So far the big positives seem to be: higher boiling point, lower freezing point, only use once, non toxic. Negatives: its really expensive.

It's the fact, that it isn't toxic and that it's a lifetime coolant, that are the major factors alright.

The higher boiling point is a big factor for motorsport, which is why a lot of those lads use it.

/M

knifey_spoonie

The increased rust prevention come from the fact its not water based. If you look at the chemical formula of rust its 4 Fe(OH)3(s) which is formed like this 4 Fe(s) + 6 H2O(l) + 3 O2(g)

In English: Iron + water + oxygen = rust

Considering your removing a huge percentage of water your basically stopping rust being formed.

deandean

@goz83 it's a really interesting product, I hadn't heard of it until your post and I spent a while looking over it. I won't be getting in on the group buy as I have no need for it, but here are my thoughts:

The idea of the higher boiling point is spot on, even in an overheat situation coolant should still circulate instead of blowing off.

The main reason water (or a water based fluid) is used in cooling systems is that water has the highest specific heat capacity of more or less any fluid. The SHC of the waterless coolant is (I looked it up) about 0.5 or 0.6 times that of water, so the cooling system won't be as efficent. This would be relevant when sitting in traffic on a hot summer day, for example, the aux cooling fan could be cutting in a lot more and this will lead to more fuel consumption not less.


As regards the 'lasts for life' claim , there are loads of cars, maybe the majority of cars :eek: that never have coolant replaced from day 1 until they meet the scrapper, apart from the occasional fill from a kettle before the NCT. Replace coolant every 2 years? hahahahaahah! Same as replace brake fluid every 2 years? hahahaha (I actually do this even though my mechanic says I am nuts).

The waterless coolant looks to me as a specialised product, as Marlow says I reckon it'd be good for some vehicles.

Ideally you'd design the cooling system to suit this coolant, where you'd have a higher capacity pump and a larger radiator to suit the SHC of the fluid. Then your rockers would be cool, but you'd never lose your head

knifey_spoonie

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

The increased rust prevention come from the fact its not water based. If you look at the chemical formula of rust its 4 Fe(OH)3(s) which is formed like this 4 Fe(s) + 6 H2O(l) + 3 O2(g)

In English: Iron + water + oxygen = rust

Considering your removing a huge percentage of water your basically stopping rust being formed.

Iron + water + oxygen + corrosion inhibitor (to spec) = rust not being formed

I won't put a condescending "In English" prefix to that

Marlow

RoverJames wrote: »

Iron + water + oxygen + corrosion inhibitor (to spec) = rust not being formed

You seem to focus on just one thing and forget about the other advantages. It's the combination of things, that make it viable.

Take the example of your car having a minor leak, next thing your kids stick their hand in that water on the ground and next in their mouth.

/M

R.O.R

RoverJames wrote: »

Iron + water + oxygen + corrosion inhibitor (to spec) = rust not being formed WHEN CHANGED AS IT SHOULD BE

Have I pointed out an advantage there, or do you want to continue to pick this apart?

knifey_spoonie

RoverJames wrote: »

Iron + water + oxygen + corrosion inhibitor (to spec) = rust not being formed

I won't put a condescending "In English" prefix to that

I wouldn't consider "In English" being condescending, I would say explaining the above chemical equation containing a number of chemical elements was being helpful, considering this is the motoring forum not the chemistry/science forum.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

When not circulating how does this tack provide more protection against corrosion than a traditional coolant (that would be alkaline as there's inhibitors in it) mixed with water in the correct ratio and within the recommended service life? ...............

R.O.R wrote: »

Have I pointed out an advantage there, or do you want to continue to pick this apart?

I was aware of that advantage so did not require you to point out anything that I have mentioned about 4 times already, I have repeatedly questioned how the Evans tack is any better than coolant and water when changed at recommended intervals It was alleged that the video explained this very well but as I've pointed out, it doesn't

I'm not picking anything apart

R.O.R

You just want to make the same point over and over and over again so that everyone knows you are correct?

Some things never change.................

R.O.R

R.O.R wrote: »

You just want to make the same point over and over and over again so that everyone knows you are correct?

Some things never change.................

Some things indeed never change Please do elaborate.
No one has actually answered my question so I did ask it more than once in more than one post, the advantage you allegedly pointed out was in the first post and acknowledged more than once by me so thanks anyway.

As I was asking I would entertain any actual response that was along the lines of an answer, please do contribute if you can.

Is one of your internet buddies selling this tack perhaps ?

Marlow

RoverJames wrote: »

I was aware of that advantage so did not require you to point out anything that I have mentioned about 4 times already, I have repeatedly questioned how the Evans tack is any better than coolant and water when changed at recommended intervals It was alleged that the video explained this very well but as I've pointed out, it doesn't

That's because you clearly ignore the other advantages that have pointed out and which are also explained in the video.

/M

Marlow

Marlow wrote: »

That's because you clearly ignore the other advantages that have pointed out and which are also explained in the video.

/M

The boiling and freezing points and it being non toxic?
So folks keep repeating it doens't need to be changed????
Makes sense alright.

goz83

If properly maintained and changed at intervals, the corect coolant would not likely cause rust issues within the cooling system. I suppose the issue is that most people don't change at regular intervals and so the evans coolant trumps regular water added coolant by convenience. The cost may be more, but not in the long run, even for the average car. Is that answer fair enough RJ?