Aer Lingus looses bid for Heathrow slots to Virgin

mayotom

Virgin Atlantic offered Heathrow links to Edinburgh and Aberdeen

It would have been a great boost for AL, I wonder what Virgin Domestic will be like?

A319er

Wellhere'shoping they make a genuine effort on this Man Edi and ABZ , no planes lined up

I recall severalattempts by VS to fly to ROI , all failed miserably, add in Belgium experiment and I wonder if his heart is really in shorthaulat all.

Tenger

A319er wrote: »

Wellhere'shoping they make a genuine effort on this Man Edi and ABZ , no planes lined up.....

Yep. VS have already announced a MAN-LHR route to start next summer using A319's but no news on which operator will fly under the Virgin Domestic brand. Add in the ABZ and EDI routes and you are looking at 3-4 A319 required.

No info leaking on VS getting hold of actual A319's, so best guess is another airline under licence to VS. Not sure if the deferred/cancelled Virgin America orders can be transferred. EasyJet perhaps?

mattser

Looses bid or loses bid ?

MuffinsDa

consolation prize for virgin losing the Moscow award?

BuffyBot

They are leasing in A319/320's.not using their current fleet. The VX orders would be no good as they don't want to buy these planes, and they would take too long anyway.

"The Belgium experiment" was a completely seperate Irline with a Ryanair-esque LCC model so not really a good comparison.

A Dub in Glasgo

Pity the powers that be did not include the Glasgow to Heathrow slots as BA need some competition on that one as well

basill

No doubt they will give it a try and then after the prescribed period as set by the EU Virgin will come out with a raft of reasons for ending the service. The slots will then be switched to long haul which no doubt was their intention all along.

Turbine

The Sunday Business Post are reporting that Aer Lingus are to announce in the next 24 hours that they'll be launching short-haul flights from next March on behalf of another airline:

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/Aer+Lingus+expected+to+announce+short-haul+tie-up/id/19410615-5218-50bd-f79d-ba2594956139

Needless to say, this has to be Virgin Atlantic. And if it is Virgin, it'll be interesting to see BA's response to Aer Lingus.

kub

Turbine wrote: »

The Sunday Business Post are reporting that Aer Lingus are to announce in the next 24 hours that they'll be launching short-haul flights from next March on behalf of another airline:

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/Aer+Lingus+expected+to+announce+short-haul+tie-up/id/19410615-5218-50bd-f79d-ba2594956139

Needless to say, this has to be Virgin Atlantic. And if it is Virgin, it'll be interesting to see BA's response to Aer Lingus.

Looks like EI are about to step on BA's toes, thats bound to upset Willy Walsh. What could he do? Surely the code share agreement is as good for them as EI considering traffic ex CRK & SNN, Dub is probably in the firing line with the now visible BA presence.

BuffyBot

Needless to say, this has to be Virgin Atlantic. And if it is Virgin, it'll be interesting to see BA's response to Aer Lingus.

I wouldn't jump the gun just yet, but Virgin are reportedly using Avion Express aircraft for this. The airline itself was advertising for Heathrow based flight and cabin crew for a long term contract beginning in March 2013, which would tie in with the launch date for Virgin's domestic services.

Looks like EI are about to step on BA's toes, thats bound to upset Willy Walsh

Not nessecarily. It's just a contract on behalf of VS (if it's even true). It wouldn't have any impact on EI's normal relationship with BA. WW has much bigger fish to fry right now.

Jamie2k9

Whats in the link below suggests to me that its no Aer Lingus operating for VS:
http://www.avex.lt/carrier-oppurtunities

ballooba

Would an Air Berlin & Aer Lingus agreement make any sense in the context of Etihad's growing stake?

Zonda999

ballooba wrote: »

Would an Air Berlin & Aer Lingus agreement make any sense in the context of Etihad's growing stake?

Would it be of much benefit to either though? The only major airports they both use would be Berlin (And currently different airports with EI flying to SXF and Air Berlin using TXL) and Dusseldorf surely?

Really interested in who this mystery airline is though, something still tells me its something to do with Virgin

And on the subject of that airline, like the other poster above, I think Virgin will convert these newly acquired slots to long haul as soon as they are able to.. Virgin have orders for 15 B787-9's with deliveries starting from 2014, as well as 6 A380's coming from 2015 onwards, as well as more options with both those orders..

Tenger

Zonda999 wrote: »

.....Really interested in who this mystery airline is though, something still tells me its something to do with Virgin.......

I wonder if the L'Avion contract is to cover the LHR-MAN operation, perhaps VS want EI to operate the ABZ/EDI network.

A wet lease deal is good for EI, they get a fixed rate for operating the route regardless of yield or load factors. While not exciting for EI it does offer guaranteed revenue stream, which is very good in this economic climate.

aerhead

Relax the cax lads....

Who said anything about Heathrow?

It's gona be out of Stanstead. I heard they're taking the numbers off the tickets and entry will be via a downstairs and upstairs with a possible shower in between.

Zonda999

Tenger wrote: »

I wonder if the L'Avion contract is to cover the LHR-MAN operation, perhaps VS want EI to operate the ABZ/EDI network.

A wet lease deal is good for EI, they get a fixed rate for operating the route regardless of yield or load factors. While not exciting for EI it does offer guaranteed revenue stream, which is very good in this economic climate.

I'd be thinking similar tbh..

I wonder do EI have the spare A320's for this, or would this be facilitated using the 2 more A319's they are due to be getting soon? Whatever, about EDI, an A319 would be perfect at ABZ to ferry passengers to LHR

Jamie2k9

Aer Lingus are getting two A319 soon. However they are due to replcae two A320 at DUB and LGW. They have an A320 for sale at the minute and by the looks of things they can't sell it so operating for VS would be great for EI to use there assets and have a gauranteed income with no risk on them.

beerbaron1234

I heard from a very reliable source that it's for space-x and that they want EI to shuttle astronauts to and from the international space station!!! But then again the person did say wait until that is confirmed before I start to speculate on what type of planes they will use and if they will buy new ones or even if it is the right airline......just saying!:D

afatbollix

Surly VS would want a business class for its connecting passengers? EI will have to change the lay out of its planes.

As some one who fly's business and first I would expect to fly business up to Scotland if needed be after flying from the USA or Africa. ( Oil regions)

BA and the old BMI offered business to customers which seemed to work.

munchkin_utd

afatbollix wrote: »

Surly VS would want a business class for its connecting passengers? EI will have to change the lay out of its planes.

As some one who fly's business and first I would expect to fly business up to Scotland if needed be after flying from the USA or Africa. ( Oil regions)

BA and the old BMI offered business to customers which seemed to work.

in the past business class in Aer Lingus short haul was simply leaving the middle seat empty and closing some curtains between it and economy to create an aura of magical prestige up the front.

I'm sure that can be done again quite easily if needs be.

L1011

If they're going to have a red painted subfleet for virgin flights, they can arrange a business class.

BuffyBot

BA and the old BMI offered business to customers which seemed to work.

BA only have one class service on domestic flights. I'd expect VS to do the same.

donvito99

Most business flyers in the UK are quite happy to fly with Easy and the likes, because the service is frequent and punctual. Aer Lingus would be no different.

A decent frequent flyer scheme would however be a bonus.

Zonda999

Did anyone hear anything more on this? In the earlier post, it was quoted that Mueller would announce the details on this in the next 24 hours(On Tuesday), and that hasnt happened.. Would love to know more on this..

A Dub in Glasgo

BuffyBot wrote: »

BA only have one class service on domestic flights. I'd expect VS to do the same.

I can vouch for that, I flew business this evening from Heathrow to Glasgow. It does get you access to the nice Terminal 5 lounge(s) and fast track onto the plane.

Tenger

Zonda999 wrote: »

Did anyone hear anything more on this? In the earlier post, it was quoted that Mueller would announce the details on this in the next 24 hours(On Tuesday), and that hasnt happened.. Would love to know more on this..

All gone quiet....the quote from CM was from last Wed I think......

Preset No.3

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/virgin-atlantic-names-aer-lingus-as-short-route-partner.html

Virgin Atlantic Names Aer Lingus as Short-Route Partner

Where are they getting 4 branded VS aircraft from?

Tenger

Preset No.3 wrote: »

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/virgin-atlantic-names-aer-lingus-as-short-route-partner.html

Virgin Atlantic Names Aer Lingus as Short-Route Partner

Where are they getting 4 branded VS aircraft from?

EI have 2 319 due in Q1 next year. EI can repaint 4 of their A320's in VS colours. (I originally heard it was to be 2 aircraft)

In a deal like this EI get a flatrate (so guaranteed income) while VS take the risk with selling tickets and marketing the routes.

basill

Where are they getting 4 branded VS aircraft from?

Remember the Chairman is in aircraft leasing. Getting hold of short haul airframes isn't that big a deal in the current climate.

Zonda999

Tenger wrote: »

EI have 2 319 due in Q1 next year. EI can repaint 4 of their A320's in VS colours. (I originally heard it was to be 2 aircraft)

In a deal like this EI get a flatrate (so guaranteed income) while VS take the risk with selling tickets and marketing the routes.

But will EI have to source more aircraft to operate this, as well as continuing all their Iirish based operations? Put simply, will EI's total number of short ahual aircraft on their books be more than the current fleet + the two A319's they are due to get early next year?

Otherwise, this is good for EI. One thing though, I really hope this won't worsen relations between EI and BA, which are already on the rocks apparently. I think being abel to codeshare with BA at LHR is very beneficial for Iirsh people, especially those heading to North or South America. Especially so for pax at SNN and ORK. ORK only has one other feeding service into a hub (Being the KLM codeshare into AMS) and SNN only really has LHR as far as I can see..

donvito99

Someone mentioned that -CVA may well make an encore for this wet lease.

Two more A320s should also go, having been replaced by A319s.

MoeJay

donvito99 wrote: »

Someone mentioned that -CVA may well make an encore for this wet lease.

Two more A320s should also go, having been replaced by A319s.

You might find CVA is already in daily service!!

donvito99

MoeJay wrote: »

You might find CVA is already in daily service!!

Ah right! Still trooping on

David086

<edit didn't notice someone already posted a link>

L1011

MAN flights on sale and showing an A319 if a post on airliners can be believed. So it definitely seems that those two ex-IB birds are going to it.

roundymac

basill wrote: »

Remember the Chairman is in aircraft leasing. Getting hold of short haul airframes isn't that big a deal in the current climate.

Plenty of aircraft at Dub after being returned from their operators, so finding aircraft will not be a problem.;)

afatbollix

This really is a win win for Aerlingus isn't it.

They get paid regardless of flight loads. They have a base in LHR so they can move staff to these routes. Sounds like these flights will fly into T1 so lounge and all operations in the right place.

castie

Zonda999 wrote: »

But will EI have to source more aircraft to operate this, as well as continuing all their Iirish based operations? Put simply, will EI's total number of short ahual aircraft on their books be more than the current fleet + the two A319's they are due to get early next year?

Otherwise, this is good for EI. One thing though, I really hope this won't worsen relations between EI and BA, which are already on the rocks apparently. I think being abel to codeshare with BA at LHR is very beneficial for Iirsh people, especially those heading to North or South America. Especially so for pax at SNN and ORK. ORK only has one other feeding service into a hub (Being the KLM codeshare into AMS) and SNN only really has LHR as far as I can see..

Codeshare has nothing to do with onward connections though.
I have flown Aer Lingus to LHR then onto Asia with Cathay/ANZ/Qantas/SIA.
So I dont understand why people say transfers would be affected.

castie

afatbollix wrote: »

This really is a win win for Aerlingus isn't it.

They get paid regardless of flight loads. They have a base in LHR so they can move staff to these routes. Sounds like these flights will fly into T1 so lounge and all operations in the right place.

I would think they would use the Virgin Lounge for these flights?
I know Id be more than pissed to end up in the Aer Lingus lounge compared to the T1 VA one.

Tenger

This wet lease operation is merely EI filling a contract for another carrier. On these routes it will be VS competing with BA. The overwhelming majority of the pax will not realise that they are flying on an EI aircraft.

The VS domestic routes were going ahead regardless of who actually operated them so BA will not have issue with EI taking the contract. EI are merely tendering for work, they will have less than expected interest in the commercial viability of the routes as they are getting a flat rate to operate for 3 years. It is entirely up to VS to market the routes and actually compete with BA.

BuffyBot

castie wrote: »

I would think they would use the Virgin Lounge for these flights?
I know Id be more than pissed to end up in the Aer Lingus lounge compared to the T1 VA one.

VS don't have a lounge in T1. No guarantee that they will be using the EI lounge anyway as the flights may not be departing from the that gate area.

afatbollix

In 2014 Aerlingus and VS domestic will move to T2 When it is finished.

Flier

...when Aer Lingus leave their 'temporary' accomodation in T1!

Stealthirl

Preset No.3 wrote: »

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/virgin-atlantic-names-aer-lingus-as-short-route-partner.html

Virgin Atlantic Names Aer Lingus as Short-Route Partner

Would this have any effect on me as i am planing a trip DUB-LGW[overnight]-LAS next sep. Can i expect to cheak my bags all the way thro from DUB ?

Tenger

Stealthirl wrote: »

Would this have any effect on me as i am planing a trip DUB-LGW[overnight]-LAS next sep. Can i expect to cheak my bags all the way thro from DUB ?

I think the ovenight will stop any bags being checked through to LAS regardless of who you travel with.

Stealthirl

Twilight cheak-in when i get to LGW so

BuffyBot

..and no, no impact anyway. Completely seperate things.