Volvo Race Owes €690,000

Chicken1

Jez but this is a serious amount of money to owe after the Volvo race.

Link: http://www.galwaynews.ie/28828-taoiseach-look-bailout-ocean-race

Red Pepper

Chicken1 wrote: »

Jez but this is a serious amount of money to owe after the Volvo race.

Link: http://www.galwaynews.ie/28828-taoiseach-look-bailout-ocean-race

Thats a disgrace. Sounds like a bit of a scam too with the costs still rising.

Chicken1

I will probaly get knocked here but I dont agree with us having to bail out this race, It was organised by so called professionals who its quite clear did not do their homework. As we face into one of the hardest budgets with cuts all over the place bailing out this race is wrong, I loved all of the Volvo Race but this legacy is crazy and the organisers have a lot to answer for with outstanding money and not paying bills.

bluecode

Let's be clear a lot of businesses in Galway made a lot of money out of the VOR. Also a lot of businesses pledged money to the VOR people.

They were lying.

So no wonder they are in debt. Frankly they are partly at fault but at the end of the day. The greedy and stupid business people of Galway are true to their stupidity and their ridiculous short term attitude to business. So we will never see the VOR in Galway again.

What a joke.

fergiesfolly

I would have thought that after the success of the first stopover, that local business would've been keen to invest in the project. Lets Do It should have not gone ahead with the event unless they had solid financial backing in place, to pay the bills. I'm sure other cities around Ireland would have been happy to fork out the necessary funds to hold the race. In any case, I can't see the VOR organisers wanting to come to Galway again after the bad publicity that this shambles has generated. And to think what a success it was and how highly the VOR participants held our city. Shot in the foot again

jased10s

Why does it seem that any project in Ireland seems to turn out as a complete cluster feck, going over budget and endless hidden costs and time . Be it roads / hospitals / health / events ect.. , bascially everything..

Wtf is going on ?

so much wasted money when we cant afford it.

fergiesfolly

When you have a country run by negligent incompetents, you're going to have a long, long line of chancers, scammers and con artists ready to take advantage.

ArtyC

I feel sorry for those they employed during the week. Harsh on them.

It's sad such a lovely festival now leaves a bitter taste. Shame on those responsible- about time they were investigated

Mrs OBumble

jased10s wrote: »

Why does it seem that any project in Ireland seems to turn out as a complete cluster feck, going over budget and endless hidden costs and time . Be it roads / hospitals / health / events ect.. , bascially everything..

Wtf is going on ?

so much wasted money when we cant afford it.

Post-colonial stress disorder: when the Brits ran the country, the locals didn't get the chance to develop a competent civil-service mentality. When they left, you had to build it from a low base, amongst a population with high illiteracy, strongly resistant to change and co-operation with the state - and emotionally traumatised from being under foreign rule.

That's the explanation used in lots of 3rd world countries, anyway. IMHO a lot rings true here, others opinions may differ.

castor 1

Chicken1 wrote: »

I will probaly get knocked here but I dont agree with us having to bail out this race, It was organised by so called professionals who its quite clear did not do their homework. As we face into one of the hardest budgets with cuts all over the place bailing out this race is wrong, I loved all of the Volvo Race but this legacy is crazy and the organisers have a lot to answer for with outstanding money and not paying bills.

Apparently they hired some of the top professionals to ensure everything was run properly:

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/39836/new-ceo-for-galways-volvo-ocean-race-festival-

Wompa1

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Post-colonial stress disorder: when the Brits ran the country, the locals didn't get the chance to develop a competent civil-service mentality. When they left, you had to build it from a low base, amongst a population with high illiteracy, strongly resistant to change and co-operation with the state - and emotionally traumatised from being under foreign rule.

That's the explanation used in lots of 3rd world countries, anyway. IMHO a lot rings true here, others opinions may differ.

Even a few generations removed? I think that's an easy out. I read in the Huffington Post before somebody trying to explain how the Irish people were living beyond our means. That due to foreign rule and not owning our own land it made owning a home a huge matter of pride so when the prices of homes kept rising people would willingly play inflated prices just to be able to say they own their home.

Personally I just think there's no explaining stupid.

The Volvo Ocean Race was just an example of corruption which is seen at every single level of society in Ireland. We need to tackle the issue head on. There's no point putting austerity measures in place without fixing the system that's broken and caused all our issues to begin with.

joeKel73

"the amount they now owe creditors is €690,000; and the amount they are owed by debtors is roughly €200,000"

^ So it's not just that promised funds haven't been paid to them if they're still 490k short even if the 200k due is paid!

If they're getting bailed out they'll need to open their books and explain where the missing half million has gone.

Sponge Bob

J o e wrote: »

If they're getting bailed out they'll need to open their books and explain where the missing half million has gone.

They can explain that I'm sure, what is difficult is to explain the projections that justified such an expenditure and the misc anticpated income streams which should have cleared the debt.

Chicken1

I would love to know how much money the so called professionals got paid, I am sure they were well looked after unlike the poor guys who provided all the services that made the Volvo Race, this is a huge let down for Galway after all the hype that they were constantly spinning. I heard one of the organisers on the radio a few weeks after the event and he said they had no problems with finance and all bills would be paid. Makes a mockery of the whole thing.

One other thing was the Army provided top chefs and the food for the invited guests and the helpers I wonder did we pay for this service ????

snubbleste

If you would love to know, write to the organisers and ask.
http://www.letsdoitgalway.com/en-us/contactus.aspx

Also write to the Minister for Defence and enquire about food provision.

randylonghorn

Wompa1 wrote: »

The Volvo Ocean Race was just an example of corruption ...

Um, can you back that up with some solid facts?

Maybe you're right, I have no idea, but I haven't seen a whit of actual evidence for it so far.

All we know for sure is that expenditure exceeded income, that sponsorship etc. was lower than hoped, and that some of that promised hasn't materialised (unfortunate but hardly a huge surprise given the current economic climate).

That they got their sums wrong is clear, but that hardly justifies an allegation of corruption.

A shortfall of half a million is both significant and serious, but given that the estimated revenue to the city generated by the VOR was €35 million (and I suspect would have been higher if the weather had been a bit more similar to the first time round), there have been many other projects in Ireland and all round the world which have thrown up much worse figures.

padgio

For €10 you can post their details on www.toum.com, probably best to tell them first, and see what kind of reaction you get

biko

Feel free to discuss the topic at hand, the debt, but please do not make unsubstantiated allegations.

On topic, it's sad that they are in debt over this, although it's not a huge sum for such a big festival. Hopefully it'll clear and we can get the VOR at some point in the future again.

Aerohead

On topic, it's sad that they are in debt over this, although it's not a huge sum for such a big festival. Hopefully it'll clear and we can get the VOR at some point in the future again.

My God Biko I would not like to see you run an event if you think that money owed is not much, did you ever hear about any other event in Galway owing that kind of money or not paying people, its frightning that sum.

biko

Well, you're right in that 690K is no small sum but it's still only less than one percent of the income it generated into the city in tourism and business opportunities. Not to mention continued tourism and prestige in the coming years after having the race twice.

Mrs OBumble

Aerohead wrote: »

... did you ever hear about any other event ... or not paying people

Yes.

The organisers would have been well aware of the likely defecit before the event: most probably they would even have had an estimate of the amount pledged from local businesses that they expected not to receive.

I am not involved, and know nothing about the internal workings of LDIG or their discussions with the government.

But I can infer that the decision was made to go ahead, despite the defecit, rather than face the international embarassment of cancelling.

This is totally normal in large projects, especailly ones running on idealism and politics ... can you imagine what Failte would have said if LDIG Galway said "find us some money, or we will cancel".

What's not normal is that no bail-out source has been (publically) found - yet. The media reports etc that we are seeing are most likely part of a campaign to manage-down the expectations of people still hoping to get paid.

Is this morally wrong? Yes.
Is it also normal? Yes again.

Call me old and cynical ...


Also, as Biko says, it's not really a large sum in the context of the event. It is if you're used to events that are funded from cake-sales and raffle-ticket - but this is in a whole different league.

Sponge Bob

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Is this morally wrong? Yes.
Is it also normal? Yes again.

It has grown a fair bit in the past few weeks so I'd say a few chancers who were 'working for free' lobbed in an invoice since the whiff of a bailout.

Early October Deficit €280k see breakdown or NO MORE THAN €450k

How did a moribund organisation increase the debt to €690k since???

Tabnabs

To be fair, the title of this thread is very misleading, the debt is owed by Let’s Do It Global and is not owned by Volvo Ocean Race, S.L.U.

And it was well known about the candidness of the Galway event organisers before the show rolled into town, there are still outstanding bills from the first visit...

randylonghorn

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It has grown a fair bit in the past few weeks so I'd say a few chancers who were 'working for free' lobbed in an invoice since the whiff of a bailout.

Early October Deficit €280k see breakdown or NO MORE THAN €450k

How did a moribund organisation increase the debt to €690k since???

Well, deficit and debt mean two different things.

A debt of €690k owed by LDIG with €200k owed to LDIG would imply a deficit of €490k.

As to the rest, I don't have a clue tbh.

galwayrush

biko wrote: »

Well, you're right in that 690K is no small sum but it's still only less than one percent of the income it generated into the city in tourism and business opportunities. Not to mention continued tourism and prestige in the coming years after having the race twice.

The debt is only a fraction of the profit that the V.A.T alone generated from the 35 million the event generated.

lion_bar

galwayrush wrote: »

The debt is only a fraction of the profit that the V.A.T alone generated from the 35 million the event generated.

The reports that say "generated €35 Million" or whatever are a bit misleading. It often means that instead of buying an ice cream in Limerick it happens in Galway so there's no benefit to the Government in terms of VAT etc. It just happens to have changed the point of consumption. A bit like the All Ireland Final giving a boost to bars around Croke Park but it takes the money out of the counties that are participating.

For it to be "real" revenue the ice cream needs to be bought by a tourist from abroad. Without "real" revenue the gov't can't support these events. Aside from the teams I don't really remember any more foreigners around galway that week than usual.

But that doesn't take from the fact that someone got their sums all wrong. It's very harsh on the small trades people who provided goods and services.

kippy

lion_bar wrote: »

The reports that say "generated €35 Million" or whatever are a bit misleading. It often means that instead of buying an ice cream in Limerick it happens in Galway so there's no benefit to the Government in terms of VAT etc. It just happens to have changed the point of consumption. A bit like the All Ireland Final giving a boost to bars around Croke Park but it takes the money out of the counties that are participating.

For it to be "real" revenue the ice cream needs to be bought by a tourist from abroad. Without "real" revenue the gov't can't support these events. Aside from the teams I don't really remember any more foreigners around galway that week than usual.

But that doesn't take from the fact that someone got their sums all wrong. It's very harsh on the small trades people who provided goods and services.

Yeah,
the big thing with these kind of events is the intangible amounts that are often quoted as actual amounts, no more than the government trying to spend millions on security for PUSA and the Queen by saying tourism would be increased by X millions.
No one actually knows how much extra is generated, it's all just a shot in the dark for numerous reasons.

Even the projected spend to host these events can often be way off until well after the event (as we've seen with the aforementioned bills)

I amn't familiar with the funding model for the VOR or indeed the costs/income that LDIG had available to them.
The bottom line however, if this debt isn't cleared theres little chance they will be able to host the race again, something, it has to be said, LDIG have already said.

cooperguy

According to this report in The Journal today 500,000 visitors attended events in Galway with 16% of them being from outside Ireland

joeKel73

Would you consider the organisers to have engineered "success"?

mathepac

€100M? €60.50M? €35M? They are all very makey-uppy numbers and so far apart that the only way to calibrate reality is probably to have Revenue / CSO report on the % change in Vat receipts over the period compared to the corresponding period last year.

Otherwise, it's all just "smoke and daggers" to quote Fianna Fail's Bertie the Gambler.

JohnCleary

Joe you bet me to it!

Also, Enda O' C is giving a talk to past pupils at the Jes soon. The talk is about his success as an Entrepreneur blah blah blah....

Bit cheeky if you ask me. If I were them i'd be keeping my head low for the time being

wonder88

All these "economic reports" giving the economic benefits of certain events are a load of nonsense. I remember that the Limerick Chamber of Comerce or a similar organisation asked (and paid) Jim Power to do up a report on the economic potential of Limerick City in order to get money from central government (this was during the last days of the celtic tiger) and of course the report concluded that Limerick had excellent economic potential if only the government spend more money there. Colm McCarty who wants to end all government subsidies and other waste as he sees it, also did a report for the Coolmore Stud organisation. To the surprise of many, Colm the free-marketeer economist suggested that the excemption of stallion fees from tax should stay in place. This means that other other companies and firms should subsidise this activity. McCarty was of course paid a fee from Coolmore, but as he stated himself this had no influence at all on his conclusions.

ilovesleep

It's probably looking unlikely that the volvo race will return to Galway next time around with that debt, which is such a pity because it was a brillant week for Galway when it came about. It lifted Galway and the spirits of many people and we all need something to look forward to. I'm still crossing my fingers that something will be pulled off here and it comes back to Galway.

Details of the next race are due to be announced in early december. Has anything been announced yet?

kippy

ilovesleep wrote: »

It's probably looking unlikely that the volvo race will return to Galway next time around with that debt, which is such a pity because it was a brillant week for Galway when it came about. It lifted Galway and the spirits of many people and we all need something to look forward to. I'm still crossing my fingers that something will be pulled off here and it comes back to Galway.

Details of the next race are due to be announced in early december. Has anything been announced yet?

Apparently Dun Laoghaire have made or are about to bit for a leg.

JohnCleary

kippy wrote: »

Apparently Dun Laoghaire have made or are about to bit for a leg.

Even if somewhere else in Ireland wins a stop-over, I don't think the atmosphere will be anything like Galway was. I cannot think of any other ports/docks bang in the middle of the city centre.

snubbleste

JohnCleary wrote: »

Even if somewhere else in Ireland wins a stop-over, I don't think the atmosphere will be anything like Galway was. I cannot think of any other ports/docks bang in the middle of the city centre.

You don't need a port for yachts. Just a suitable berthing space and facilities.

JohnCleary

snubbleste wrote: »

You don't need a port for yachts. Just a suitable berthing space and facilities.

My point was in response to the above person stating that Dun Laoighre may have put in a bid. If they put in a bid, presumably it would be at Dun Laoighre which is not city centre

Apart from Cork and Dublin CC (Liffey), where else would they easily be moored so close to a city centre? I heard in passing that if there was to be a Cork bid, it'd be Crosshaven as there's infrastructure already there... again miles out of the city centre

You are not just going to build a facility to host the few yachts when there is a marina close-by. And you're certainly not going to put in extra pontoons for the visitor boats, which add to the atmosphere (the craic down the Docks during the 2 Volvo's was un-real... I hardly left the pontoon!)

Gambas

The Journal report wrote:

it also provided Galway city with an audience of over one billion.

Absolute nonsense.

Still think the whole event would be worth the bailout.. And I'm sure the money they lost was spent locally so it didn't exactly disappear.

wonder88

Most of the money that was loaned (given) out by Anglo-Irish, AIB, Bank of Ireland was spent locally in Ireland, yet it does seem to have disappeared as it is so difficult to get these loans back.

kippy

JohnCleary wrote: »

My point was in response to the above person stating that Dun Laoighre may have put in a bid. If they put in a bid, presumably it would be at Dun Laoighre which is not city centre

Apart from Cork and Dublin CC (Liffey), where else would they easily be moored so close to a city centre? I heard in passing that if there was to be a Cork bid, it'd be Crosshaven as there's infrastructure already there... again miles out of the city centre

You are not just going to build a facility to host the few yachts when there is a marina close-by. And you're certainly not going to put in extra pontoons for the visitor boats, which add to the atmosphere (the craic down the Docks during the 2 Volvo's was un-real... I hardly left the pontoon!)

I'd agree to an extent.
But isn't Dun Laoighre a built up area with bars/restaurants/hotels etc which is within an asses roar of a major city with more of the same?

I am sure it could work and work well. There's not much chance of another Galway bid anytime soon by the looks of it but keeping a leg in Ireland would be a good thing.

intellectual dosser

Off topic but something (perhaps the topic of the thread) about the picture of John Killeen reminds me of Frank Pentangeli in the Godfather II !!

galwayrush

Deleted User wrote: »

Still think the whole event would be worth the bailout.. And I'm sure the money they lost was spent locally so it didn't exactly disappear.

What they lost is a fraction of what went to the revenue on VAT alone on what was spent at the event.

ted2767

Why was there not a levy placed on the pubs/hotels etc?
They were the ultimate beneficaries of all of this, how much did they contribute too the cost of staging this.
Even a €0.10 levy on all drinks for the week would have gone a long way to meeting the costs.
Ultimately however the blame lies with the organisers.

wonder88

The organisers got a big grant from Board Fáilte as well for this hooley, poor effort from them that they could not have covered the costs of the event. Does anyone know how much Fáilte, Dept of Arts, Council etc gave ?

Robbo

More of it, this time it's the Stunning who were short changed.

Gambas

galwayrush wrote: »

What they lost is a fraction of what went to the revenue on VAT alone on what was spent at the event.

That VAT came out of our pockets. There were very few additional international visitors despite all the hype.

Storm 10

I feel very sorry for John Killeen, it would appear that there were a lot of very incompetent people working on the event, surely someone in charge of finance should have seen this coming and called a halt before it went spiralling out of control, if it meant cancelling shows it should have been done at least the bill would not be as big as it is now

The one bad thing about this is that it will be very hard for anyone to organise a big event in Galway again as people will be very wary of getting involved.

Lissavane

What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone?
For men were born to pray and save:
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

From September 1913 by WB Yeats.

Still apposite.

fergiesfolly

Storm 10 wrote: »

I feel very sorry for John Killeen, it would appear that there were a lot of very incompetent people working on the event, surely someone in charge of finance should have seen this coming and called a halt before it went spiralling out of control, if it meant cancelling shows it should have been done at least the bill would not be as big as it is now

The one bad thing about this is that it will be very hard for anyone to organise a big event in Galway again as people will be very wary of getting involved.

What was John Killeens involvement in the event? He's listed on the Tribune as Chief Executive of Lets Do it Global
Is he not culpable at all?

galwayrush

Gambas wrote: »

That VAT came out of our pockets. There were very few additional international visitors despite all the hype.

Yes, and went direct to the Government coffers.