When did kayfabe die for you?

Lord TSC

I was listening to a Review-a-Wai podcast talking about the Montreal Screwjob, and it's often one of those instances that people quote as being the end of kayfabe in wrestling (along with the Curtain Call incident). But I thought I'd ask...what killed kayfabe for you? At what stage did you lose the innocence and saw wrestling for the scripted show it was?

I remember when it happened for me. Of course, as a kid, I had always been told "It's not real, they are trained" etc etc, but I didn't realize how "fake" it was until I walked into a local store one day and saw a wrestling magazine on the shelves called "Powerslam". I had seen a few of the official magazines before but this was an unofficial one. Honestly, as a little kid (I'd say I was about 10), the magazine absolutely blew my mind.

It was talking about backstage going-ons, talking about stories that were being planned, pushes and squashes, faces and heels, using all this terminology that was foreign. It was bizarre but enthralling. I must have read it over and over. It was crazy but I loved it. And for a few weeks, I was a God among my friends who all wanted to see this magazine which let me know what was coming up, what was happening....

The worst part was they had the one issue and it was years before I saw another copy of it (it was the days before Easons and decent newsagents in Drogheda; a trip into town took forever and I never got near anywhere that had a wide selection of magazines). I looked for the magazine every time I went into the shop but they never got another copy.

Of course, years later I discovered the internet and Jesus, that destroyed what little innocence I had left :P It was like the magazine gave me a taste of the years to come ahead.

What was it for you, fellow boardsies? Was there a moment that made you realize how "fake" it was?

MitchKoobski

The constant "Sure that's all fake" comments from people who overheard me watching it or talking about it. Kept building until I cracked.

jaykhunter

What a fun question! Sadly, unlike Santa Claus, I never believed wrestling was real. As the youngest of the family I watched WWF in the 80s and 90s with all of my older brothers and parents and they told me it was fake; and pointed out both little and big things why. So it wasn't a big deal, I just thought of it like any other show on TV. Believing in Hulk Hogan had me at best thinking the rest of the card was phoney but the main event was real, but long before the 1990 Rumble our household had turned on Hogan and of course it was fake, because this guy is winning, he always wins. I still loved the faces by my family loved the heels because of how entertaining they were, (especially Perfect, Heenan and Rude) so I ended up loving both sides of a match. It was a great time to be a fan.

I remember seeing PowerSlam Magazine next to WWF Magazine back in the late 90s, palmed through it, and quickly discarded it due to it's boring production values and non-glossy pictures! It wasn't until Triple H's Reign of Terror in late 2002 that I was sufficiently disenchanted with WWE as just a TV show that I started getting into news-sites.

rovert

It was part:

• Not wanting to believe it was fake.
• Kind of not caring that much.
• Watching for the stories & characters rather than the sporting or violence aspect.
• Older children and adults using terms that semantically I had an issue with.

I still have issues with the word fake as it isn't as you know people make contact and hurt themselves. My Da's word was "rigged" which I think was inspired by the 80s newspaper and Cook Report exposé pieces on British Wrestling. I didn't think it was rigged either as money wasn't bet on it. I remember getting into an argument that the ring wasn't a trampoline with a teacher (I was right :P). Very serious child.

It was a drip, drip process until the age of 9-10 were the evidence kept mounting so high I couldn't ignore it. I remember that PPVs finishing bang on 2hrs 45mins being a big one. Finding out had no baring on me watching and there was no period were I turned my back on it after it conning me or whatever.

CastorTroy

I remember watching an episode of WCW or NWA, whichever it was back in the UTV days. flair was in a match and he or his opponent was on his back being pulled towards the corner to have his leg slammed against the post. So was being pulled by the leg and the leg was let go while the guy got out of the ring before grabbing the leg again. But after letting the leg go, the guy on his back kept pushing himself towards the post.
Then either in the same match or another match for NWA/WCW a guy did a dropkick to his opponent, didn't make contact, but the recipient of the move was still knocked back out of the ring.

Maybe I was in denial but after that I just thought NWA/WCW was staged but WWF was real.

Lord TSC

I still have issues with the word fake as it isn't as you know people make contact and hurt themselves.

Yeah, even writing the initial post, I don't like the word, hence why I used quotation marks when I used it....

gimmick

Like above, I never truly believed they were truly fighting as I had older friends who had older brothers etc. But I think I held a certain level of innocence or naivety towards it until I was about 18. I believed that Yokozuna broke guys legs and ribs every time he did a Bonzai. Small things like that.

Simpler times.

Mr.Nice Guy

I remember I was on holiday when I was small with my cousin who was older than me and when he heard me talking about wrestling he slagged me for watching it and told me it was 'fake'. I thought he was talking rubbish until he asked my grandmother and she confirmed it wasn't real. I was shocked! :pac:

Sad thing is this information actually turned me off wrestling for a good few years and whenever I saw it on TV I'd ignore it because as far as I was concerned it was 'fake'. Luckily the likes of Austin and Taker made wrestling cool and popular because I then finally gave it another chance and realised I should never have turned away from it in the first place.

starviewadams

When I came across Power Slam for the first time when I was doing my monthly wrestling magazine shopping.I distinctly remember a story in the news section about Austin not wanting to put HHH over at Summerslam 99,so they had Foley win the title and drop it to HHH the next night.

Didn't really make much difference to me,if anything I found the backstage stories more interesting then some of the on screen stuff.

DM_7

Like Gimmick, I was informed early that the result was pre determined. For me it took a long time to realise that the 'Best' wrestler may not actually be the guy winning.

When people told me it was fake I was like yeah I know but Hogan/Hart/HBK and so on are the best so it doesn't matter if its real.

It was only when I had access to the internet in my late teens I realised how things worked.

Angron

Probably the night of "The Finger Poke of Doom", where WCW also revealed that Mankind was going to win the WWE title.

rovert

Denny M wrote: »

Probably the night of "The Finger Poke of Doom", where WCW also revealed that Mankind was going to win the WWE title.

Explain this one to me? As DX essentially did the same thing a year plus before:

Angron

rovert wrote: »

Explain this one to me? As DX essentially did the same thing a year plus before:

I'd only really gotten into wrestling a few months prior to the poke, and WCW was the main show I watched because I had some strange gray box that gave us a load of German channels that gave us TNT or whatever Nitro was on at the time, so I hadn't seen the DX match. People had been doing the usual telling me it was all fake and that, but that was the first time I'd really believed there was stuff going on backstage besides wrestlers getting ready :pac:

ciano316

When I discovered the internet.

gnfnrhead

I had often been told it was fake (a description I hate, tell Benoit it was fake!) but it wasn't until I got the Internet that I realised just how much was preplanned.

rovert

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I had often been told it was fake (a description I hate, tell Benoit it was fake!) but it wasn't until I got the Internet that I realised just how much was preplanned.

Rather funny how Wrestling has evolved into our parent's conception of it back in the day with how spotty matches are and how scripted word for word promos are - "tis all rehearsed".

starviewadams

It's faker now then it ever was before!*

*WWE at least

D.Q

I was always told it wasn't real, but never knew the exact ins and outs. I started watching when I was about 7 or so, which would have been 97 or thereabouts.

I used to get banned from watching it all the time. Once for when I told my younger brother, then 4 or 5, that the Undertaker actually did have all the powers that he had on tv and that he could appear at any time behind you.

Got banned a few years later for trying to chokeslam my brother through our coffee table. This one always hurts, cos I got banned on a saturday, and that monday was the RAW that Austin returned to save team wwf, that moment like, and I missed it.

That invasion story was the last time I really didnt know what was real, I rememeber talking to my mates about what would happen if wcw/ecw won, but at the same time in the back of my mind was thinking, Vince owns wwf, this is wwf tv, it wouldnt be shown on tv if it was in any way real.

tbh that was probably the last time I really loved wrestling. Flair as GM was grand, and then the emergence of Lesnar, then I went off it for a while, from 04-07 or so.

Dancor

While watching a Sid-Shawn Michaels match with my older cousin Tom. Tom was a big fan himself and asked me did I know that wrestling is fake.
I thought he was trying to wind me up as he explained the choreography and stuff like that, I didn't understand fully what he meant at the time and it was easier for me to believe it was real for a few years more.

Handsome Bob

No specific moment, just my older brothers continually at me telling me it was fake. I guess if there was a moment it was when I saw a wrestling secrets revealed show. They went through how the buried alive match worked n all!

MitchKoobski

S. De Sousa wrote: »

No specific moment, just my older brothers continually at me telling me it was fake. I guess if there was a moment it was when I saw a wrestling secrets revealed show. They went through how the buried alive match worked n all!

Buried Alive matches. That one was a big leap. I figured it out pretty quickly when no one died....

Handsome Bob

That, and coffins being set ablaze with someone in it, only to vanish into thin air once it is opened. :pac:

A Primal Nut

I first watched in the early 90's when I was very young (5-7) and it never dawned on me that it was fake. I spent ages trying to figure out how the urn gave the Undertaker his power.

Of course when I started watching again I was 14 it slowly started to dawn on me.

But even then it was transitional. Ok, so the matches have predetermined winners. Then I figured out that the two guys don't really hate each other. Next might have been that promos were pre-scripted. However it took me years to figure out how they do the various moves (the other guy jumps!! :eek:).

Lord TSC

S. De Sousa wrote: »

No specific moment, just my older brothers continually at me telling me it was fake. I guess if there was a moment it was when I saw a wrestling secrets revealed show. They went through how the buried alive match worked n all!

OMG! I remember that show! That was brilliant....

CastorTroy

The fact they always seem to use aluminium or other light metals in the weapons is a giveaway as well. Have you ever hit yourself over the head with a lid from a tin of roses? Doesn't hurt at all..... or so I've heard.

Disclaimer: I do not take responsibility for any injuries that may occur from people trying this for themselves.

connemara man

CastorTroy wrote: »

The fact they always seem to use aluminium or other light metals in the weapons is a giveaway as well. Have you ever hit yourself over the head with a lid from a tin of roses? Doesn't hurt at all..... or so I've heard.

Disclaimer: I do not take responsibility for any injuries that may occur from people trying this for themselves.

Depends on the force

I thought it was real s a child and then when I lost watching it on channel 4 for a few years when I was 8 or 9 and then when I was able to go to other peoples houses a few years later (they had skysports) I had been told and could see it and then it became clearer and clearer.

GTR63

At Capital Carnage 98 when Jaqueline got her top ripped off my brother said that they were fake straight away.....Why? That moment took the innocence from rasslin.
I also remember watching wcw before I got mags or internet access and being baffled at some of the terms Russo made you? Holy Sh*t Russo is a made man in the Mafia?

CastorTroy

connemara man wrote: »

Depends on the force

I tried it pretty hard... I mean I've heard of it being tried pretty hard. Of course you use the large flat part of the lid. Using the side would be just stupid. :rolleyes:

mtjm

I remember when Macho Man and the Snake bit moment, (I was 15 at the time still beliveing the innocents) thought the whole thing was real, afterwards someone told me that they took the poison out of the snake or something after that I felt everything was fake from there,

connemara man

CastorTroy wrote: »

I tried it pretty hard... I mean I've heard of it being tried pretty hard. Of course you use the large flat part of the lid. Using the side would be just stupid. :rolleyes:

well that depends if you like the person or not I have been on the receiving end of a hit during my ignore the WWF health warning phase no KO but i was pissed (I didn't know it was coming back of head shot) I got my revenge

rossie1977

CastorTroy wrote: »

The fact they always seem to use aluminium or other light metals in the weapons is a giveaway as well.

those light chairs never did anybody any harm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar_felxzSFA

CastorTroy

And that's why you don't use the edge of the Roses lid.

Then sure look at trashcans. When was the last time one was seen outside of wrestling?

Ando's Saggy Bottom

When Papa Shango made Woyah sweat green goo the young P Campbell knew something was amiss.

DrumSteve

The night Owen Hart died in a weird way kinda ended my interest in wrestling (I was a huge bret and owen fan and was watching the broadcast) and watching Scott Hall a couple of months back off his head in the ring had a similar effect. And as people mentioned above the backstage stuff is sometimes more interesting.

In the back of my mind though, it never did add up to me how these guys punched each other around every night and never really had any visible bruising. I mean if Andre punched you in the face he'd probably cave in your skull. It wasnt until I developed an interest in wrestling biographies that I found out about the internal and social toll these guys pay.

Wrestling is both more real and more fake than it lets on.

Stereomaniac

The Montréal Screwjob kinda took the magic out of it for me. Here was this amazing catastrophe that could have actually worked really well as a storyline, but instead they decided to do the thing for real! I also, over the past 15 years began to realise that wrestlers seem to have what a lot of musicians have also, where they can't really differentiate between their stage personas and their private ones. Which is kinda ****ed.

jaykhunter

Superplexes absolutely smashed kayfabe, as the wrestlers really help each other out with foot and hand placement. And how the lower card talent react to blown spots, repeating them right afterward.

Wrestling's a weird one alright as they hide real injures and play up fake ones. How some moves (like the top rope leg drop) hurt the guy doing the move much, much more.

Most new fans think wrestling is real, because it's viewed as a televised sport with colourful characters rather than a TV show. Finding out it isn't real results in those fans tuning out after a few years. Are any other televised sports predetermined?

gnfnrhead

jaykhunter wrote: »

Superplexes absolutely smashed kayfabe, as the wrestlers really help each other out with foot and hand placement.

Bob Orton (I think) did a great superplex.

Turtyturd

Pete Campbell wrote: »

When Papa Shango made Woyah sweat green goo the young P Campbell knew something was amiss.

That one still makes me wonder how they did it.:pac:

Can't remember an exact point when it stopped seeming real...maybe around the time Bret Hart got 'electrocuted' by the Mountie. But I was definitely fully aware of it by the time I started to watch again around 96/97.

However about a year or two later I started buying any wrestling magazine I came across and reading backstage stuff and just killed the whole thing. I miss the days of knowing it was real but still being shocked by what happened.

jaykhunter wrote: »

Are any other televised sports predetermined?

Italian football matches.:D

CastorTroy

I suppose we all should've realised it wasn't real when Hogan did his legdrop.

764dak

GTR63 wrote: »

At Capital Carnage 98 when Jaqueline got her top ripped off my brother said that they were fake straight away.....Why? That moment took the innocence from rasslin.
I also remember watching wcw before I got mags or internet access and being baffled at some of the terms Russo made you? Holy Sh*t Russo is a made man in the Mafia?

What? Are you saying her breasts are fake?

764dak

I've been watching wrestling since 1993 (around 3 years old). I've always thought wrestling was pretend fighting even though you can still can get hurt. (I also never believed in Santa Claus). There were too many inconsistencies and things that did not make sense.

1. Certain moves don't seem that powerful and some didn't seem that weak.
2. Opponents performing simultaneous drop kicks occurred too often (early to mid 90s).
3. When performing superplex the receiver always stands up instead of sitting down and trying to prevent it.
4. Normal matches vs hardcore matches. Many things that happen in hardcore matches would have resulted in a sure win in a normal match.

Turtyturd

This move or any variation of it probably should have been a good indicator too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amFaAK1Lc80