Unsocial Hours Premium

Red Crow

Just a quick question:

John works in retail. He works from 4 PM to 1 AM. Is he entitled to an unsocial hours premium?

Further question: If he's not entitled to unsocial hours premium then why isn't he? Does he have to work in a certain indutry to receive this payment?

My answer to the above would be that he gets normal rate for the hours 4-9. Then from 9 P.M. to 1A.M he gets an unsocial hours premium. I thought the law was that as long as he works 3 hours after 9 P.M. he's entitled to the extra premium. Am I incorrect?

Wishbone Ash

In my area, unsocial hours premium (time + one sixth) generally refers to hours worked after 6pm but usually ends at approx 9pm when night rate (time +one quarter) applies.

I don't think it a right but usually achieved through negotiation etc.

Red Crow

Thanks but I was under the presumption that it was a requirement.

tatli_lokma

According to the Citizens Information, there is no unsocial hours premium, and that night work (which I think you are refering to when you mention the 3 hours after 9pm) actually only applies if you work 3 hours between the hours of midnight and 7am.

citizensinformation.ie wrote:

In Ireland the working hours of night workers are regulated by the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997. It is important to be clear about what is meant by night work and night worker. Night work means work done in the period between midnight and 7am. A night worker is an employee who normally works at least 3 hours between midnight and 7am and who works at night for at least half of their working hours in a year.

Furthermore, nor does there appear to be a set minimum requirement to pay a premium for work during these hours

citizensinformation.ie wrote:

Pay rates and leave for night workers are not covered by the Organisation of Working Time Act. These depend on the terms of the night worker's contract of employment.

Procrastastudy

Here's one that's sort of related. I'm doing up an Employments rights booklet at the moment for our FLAC centre - I've got some info from our Director who would be very well versed in these matters and the documentation has about an entitlement to a €20 premium for working Saturdays. Does anyone know anything about that?

Was it one of the issues in the ERO ruling last year?

tatli_lokma

Never heard of it for a Saturday - definitely for a Sunday (although it is not a specified amount as you state, it can literally be €0.10 more per day as long as you can argue it is "reasonable" - which I have a problem with, what is reasonable to one is totally unfair to another, so I really wish the powers that be would grow a pair, make a decision and stop messing around with this wishywashy language that just causes more problems and adds to the confusion)

http://www.djei.ie/press/2011/20110728a.htm

Procrastastudy

Little Ted wrote: »

Never heard of it for a Saturday - definitely for a Sunday (although it is not a specified amount as you state, it can literally be €0.10 more per day as long as you can argue it is "reasonable" - which I have a problem with, what is reasonable to one is totally unfair to another, so I really wish the powers that be would grow a pair, make a decision and stop messing around with this wishywashy language that just causes more problems and adds to the confusion)

http://www.djei.ie/press/2011/20110728a.htm

Yep aware of the Sunday one - thought it odd myself and have removed it from the booklet - just curious. Given I worked every Saturday for years could mean a few quid

tatli_lokma

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Yep aware of the Sunday one - thought it odd myself and have removed it from the booklet - just curious. Given I worked every Saturday for years could mean a few quid

wishful thinking on your part for that I reckon! but no harm in being an optimist!

StillWaters

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Yep aware of the Sunday one - thought it odd myself and have removed it from the booklet - just curious. Given I worked every Saturday for years could mean a few quid

I'm a bit shocked you have removed it from an employment rights booklet on the basis of one post on boards. I presume the Director of the FLAC has extensive legal knowledge, so why don't you revert to them and ask the source, or contact NERA?

Disclaimer: I don't think it exists either, but there could be some obscure ruling somewhere your Director knows about.

Procrastastudy

StillWaters wrote: »

I'm a bit shocked you have removed it from an employment rights booklet on the basis of one post on boards. I presume the Director of the FLAC has extensive legal knowledge, so why don't you revert to them and ask the source, or contact NERA?

Disclaimer: I don't think it exists either, but there could be some obscure ruling somewhere your Director knows about.

The director of our college FLAC Its only a student one - but I'll grab one of the lawyers at the next clinic. I removed it from the booklet as its not verified and we're on a deadline - it can always go in the second edition. Given I'd never heards of it in 15 years in retail I'm sure it was in there for some specific industry. Also the info given had to be checked in light of certain decisions on EROs.

Wishbone Ash

A small Saturday premium is paid by the HSE for some grades. It's approx €10 for non-officers and €15 approx for officers. It's a single fixed payment (i.e. it's €10/€15 premium per Saturday worked regardless of the length of the shift).

donkey balls

I have worked shift hours for the majority of my working carer normally the company will set the rate of pay for shift work,When working nights 1900-0700 I received 30% shift allowance,What seems to be happening these days especially with people working for agencies in warehouses/transport companies is that they just get an hourly flat rate no matter what day they work even for bank holidays.

tacofries

If you work in a pub till 4 or 5 in the morning are you entitled to a special rate of pay aswell?

sorry for thread-jacking!

Procrastastudy

tacofries wrote: »

If you work in a pub till 4 or 5 in the morning are you entitled to a special rate of pay aswell?

sorry for thread-jacking!

If you work a certain number of hours after midnight you are a night worker and entitled to something - it may just be shorter shifts. Have a look at the NERA website.

orchidsrpretty

Procrastastudy wrote: »

If you work a certain number of hours after midnight you are a night worker and entitled to something - it may just be shorter shifts. Have a look at the NERA website.

I work night shifts and we are not enititled to any premium for doing so.

tatli_lokma

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

I work night shifts and we are not enititled to any premium for doing so.

As mentioned earlier, there is no entitlement to a premium (of any sort) for working night shifts. From what I can see on NERA and Citizens information (see page two)
http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/media/The%20Organisation%20of%20Working%20Time%20Act,%201997%20Explanatory%20Booklet%20for%20Employers%20and%20Employees%20Jan%202012.pdf