making stout for the first time brewer

The_Gatsby

Hi all, just a quick question. I've never brewed before and wanted to try it out. So I ordered a kit off the homebrewcompany.ie. I was sure i'd ordered the student ale kit as I thought this would be the easiest. It turns out they've sent me the stout kit. I love stouts but hadn't really planned on making one as I thought it would be too difficult for a first timer. Could I still make an ale with the ingerdients they've sent me or should I just go ahead and make a stout? Thanks for any help, Luke.

BeerNut

Lukebray wrote: »

I love stouts but hadn't really planned on making one as I thought it would be too difficult for a first timer.

Strange. If you don't mind me asking, why is that?

The darker the beer kit style the easier it is to make something drinkable out of it, I find.

Lukebray wrote: »

Could I still make an ale with the ingerdients they've sent me or should I just go ahead and make a stout?

If it's a stout kit you've got, it's a stout (ie an ale with dark grains) you're making.

Happy brewing!

The_Gatsby

BeerNut wrote: »

Strange. If you don't mind me asking, why is that?

I think I read it somewhere? Maybe I read it wrong though and my stout will turn out ok Thanks for the quick response, a stout it is!

tteknulp

Stout i find if you add 1kg of med spraymalt ,2wks primary & 3-4 wks in bottles/keg longer is better ,makes a nice pint

BeerNut

It'll be grand. Just throw away the instructions (use these instead), give it long enough to ferment and keep it at normal room temperature.

eurofoxy

funny thing is i just recieved a coopers kit from the misses, also got a kit for stout, tried it out for the first time today, it was actually really interesting prepping and then starting the brew, its sitting now upstairs fermenting..

one question, i recently had a end of summer bbq and have about 35 of the grolsch flip top bottles, should i use those for the stout or the PET ones that came with the beginners kit?
The coopers kit itself came with a lager and was gonna put that into the grolsch bottles, but dont know if i should use the carbonation drops in them as i dont want them to explode as they are 45CL bottles..

whitesands

eurofoxy wrote: »

The coopers kit itself came with a lager and was gonna put that into the grolsch bottles, but dont know if i should use the carbonation drops in them as i dont want them to explode as they are 45CL bottles..

I got the same kit the other day, the piece of paper that came with the kit said 1 carbonation drop per 500ml. In the video it said 8grams per litre.
At 60 drops in a 250gram bag, it's 4grams per drop so I'd say you'd be grand but I'm no expert.
I've also read you need to keep teh grolsch bottles out of sunlight when storing them.

eurofoxy

whitesands wrote: »

I got the same kit the other day, the piece of paper that came with the kit said 1 carbonation drop per 500ml. In the video it said 8grams per litre.
At 60 drops in a 250gram bag, it's 4grams per drop so I'd say you'd be grand but I'm no expert.
I've also read you need to keep teh grolsch bottles out of sunlight when storing them.

They are the green bottles too so they have to be kept out of direct sunlight, just picked up 2 1.5L grolsch bottles so gonna put some into those handy to bring to friends etc..

Will give it a shot next week once the stout is finished.
Do post up how you get on, am looking forward to how this turns out..

poitinstill

coopers pet bottles are great. grolsh are super too. unless you plan on storing them on a south facing window you'll be fine stick them under stairs or where ever out of direct sunlight/flourescent light. brew it up give it 2 week in fermenter then a month in bottles. ( start tasting after 10 days...) then enjoy. regarding priming bottles.. if in doubt under prime.

whitesands

Any thoughts on bottling the lager in the coopers PET bottles after a week & letting secondary fermentation happen in the bottle?
Alternatively, could I bottle half after 1 week & the other half after 2 weeks or would the 2nd half be ruined?

I know, I'm getting impatient

All opinions welcome...

tteknulp

Dont rush bottling ,leave i primary till finished ,bottles can explode if u add extra sugar in bottles etc and its not finished fermenting .

BeerNut

What tteknulp said. Never bottle until fermentation is finished, and you'll get better beer if you give it at least a couple of weeks in the fermenter.

If you're impatient, get planning your next brew now and put it straight into the fermenter after you bottle the current one.

Tube

Two things.

Secondary in bottles is fine, once primary fermentation has finished. If you get the same gravity twice in 24 hours then primary is finished (or stalled, but we're assuming no problems). What temperature are you fermenting at, and what's your present gravity.

You can bottle (or keg) before fermentation is finished, but it is only for the advanced brewer. It is dangerous, tho less so with plastic bottles. (Ironically it's a bit easier to do with lager)

whitesands

Cheers lads

Tube wrote: »

Two things.
What temperature are you fermenting at, and what's your present gravity.

The temp has been hovering around 20-22 degrees. I had an OG of 035 & calibrated for temperature it was 037, I've just checked it again after 72 hours & it's at 020, does that sound normal?

The_Gatsby

This may seem like a stupid question. When I'm finished sterilising all my equipment how do I dry it? Would towel drying not re-introduce bacteria to it?

Son0vagun

Just rinse it with water! Do not dry with a towel

Tube

whitesands wrote: »

The temp has been hovering around 20-22 degrees. I had an OG of 035 & calibrated for temperature it was 037, I've just checked it again after 72 hours & it's at 020, does that sound normal?

At ~20°C fermentation will be quite quick, and will probably be finished in 4 or 5 days. (From a flavour perspective lager yeast works best at around 10°C.)

However I would expect that at 1.020 you still have a bit to go. Very few beers finish above 1.015, and typically my lagers finish at 1.008 to 1.006 after about 2.5 weeks at 10°C.

1.037 is also very low. What did the spec sheet say it should be? If that finishes at 1.008 it'll be 3.9% abv. Currently it's only 2.3%.

whitesands

Tube wrote: »

At ~20°C fermentation will be quite quick, and will probably be finished in 4 or 5 days. (From a flavour perspective lager yeast works best at around 10°C.)

However I would expect that at 1.020 you still have a bit to go. Very few beers finish above 1.015, and typically my lagers finish at 1.008 to 1.006 after about 2.5 weeks at 10°C.

I read a post here saying the coopers lager kits come with ale yeast but I know what you mean, I've read of others making proper lager like you needing fridges etc.

Tube wrote: »

1.037 is also very low. What did the spec sheet say it should be? If that finishes at 1.008 it'll be 3.9% abv. Currently it's only 2.3%.

I didn't get a spec sheet telling me what it should be so I was clueless when taking the reading, I've a plastic hydrometer & have since noticed the reading can vary till I spin the bubbles out & let it sit for a few.
I could have taken the reading wrong & I also suspect I didn't mix everything properly, could that effect it much do you think, ie the mixing?

P.S. LukeBray, sorry hijacking your thread, good question on the sanitisation, I wondered the same thing the other day & dried everything with a towel :rolleyes:

Tube

whitesands wrote: »

I didn't get a spec sheet telling me what it should be so I was clueless when taking the reading, I've a plastic hydrometer & have since noticed the reading can vary till I spin the bubbles out & let it sit for a few.

I'd invest in a glass one. They're fairly cheap.

whitesands wrote: »

I could have taken the reading wrong & I also suspect I didn't mix everything properly, could that effect it much do you think, ie the mixing?

Yes, it can. If all the sugars aren't evenly dispersed when taking a reading you'll get an inaccurate result.

whitesands

Tube wrote: »

Yes, it can. If all the sugars aren't evenly dispersed when taking a reading you'll get an inaccurate result.

Thanks for your reply, that makes sense then, from looking at youtube videos I definitely didn't mix it enough.
It's at 015 now after 4 days so looks like it's working fine, still bubbling away

The_Gatsby

Well I made my first brew this morning. I think it went ok. The only problem I forsee is taking samples without infecting the brew. I can't dip my sterile trial jar into the brew without my hand touching it. Also there's quite a lot of head on top of my samples so it makes it quite difficult to take a reading.

I managed to get a first reading this morning of 1.300 just before I added the yeast. Does this sound about right? And has anybody got any suggestions on how I can take samples without disturbing the brew?

thanks all

Son0vagun

Lukebray wrote: »

Well I made my first brew this morning. I think it went ok. The only problem I forsee is taking samples without infecting the brew. I can't dip my sterile trial jar into the brew without my hand touching it. Also there's quite a lot of head on top of my samples so it makes it quite difficult to take a reading.

I managed to get a first reading this morning of 1.300 just before I added the yeast. Does this sound about right? And has anybody got any suggestions on how I can take samples without disturbing the brew?

thanks all

Just sterile the hydrometer and leave it in the fermenter for the duration of the fermentation.

BeerNut

Lukebray wrote: »

I can't dip my sterile trial jar into the brew without my hand touching it. Also there's quite a lot of head on top of my samples so it makes it quite difficult to take a reading.

I managed to get a first reading this morning of 1.300 just before I added the yeast. Does this sound about right?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. You won't need to take another sample until fermentation is well under way and the alcohol level has increased, decreasing the risk of an infection. Just make sure your hand is clean and give it a swish in the sanitiser when you're taking the trial jar out.

1.300 is super-strong. I'm assuming you mean 1.030, which is very low. What did you put in the fermenter?

The_Gatsby

BeerNut wrote: »

1.300 is super-strong. I'm assuming you mean 1.030, which is very low. What did you put in the fermenter?

Oh yeah, 1.030. I put in the liquid from the can (not sure of the technical name) and the brewing sugar that came with the kit. I topped it off with water and added the yeast. I took the reading before I added the yeast

BeerNut

So what's the current volume in the fermenter?

It sounds like another case of the ingredients not being mixed fully. Sugar is heavy and will want to sink to the bottom of the fermenter, so as you're putting it together you need to stir, stir and stir some more. It's best to leave it now: the fermentables will all get eaten, but you won't have an accurate measure of the beer's strength.

The_Gatsby

BeerNut wrote: »

So what's the current volume in the fermenter?

It sounds like another case of the ingredients not being mixed fully. Sugar is heavy and will want to sink to the bottom of the fermenter, so as you're putting it together you need to stir, stir and stir some more. It's best to leave it now: the fermentables will all get eaten, but you won't have an accurate measure of the beer's strength.

There's now 23 litres in the fermentor. Well I completely dissolved my sugar when I boiled it up. I then sat and stirred for a constant 10 minutes before I added the yeast. I am 99% sure that everything is dissolved because one thing I did make sure was that I did a lot of stirring. I'll leave it and see how it turns out. Just out of interest, what should my first reading have been?

whitesands

From my limited understanding it should have been higher, ie above .040

BeerNut

Yeah, you'd be expecting somewhere north of 1.040. Did you calibrate the hydrometer reading for temperature? Maybe you should check that your hydrometer reads 1.000 in water at 20C.

The_Gatsby

BeerNut wrote: »

Yeah, you'd be expecting somewhere north of 1.040. Did you calibrate the hydrometer reading for temperature? Maybe you should check that your hydrometer reads 1.000 in water at 20C.

Yeah that could be it. My thermometer is reading about 24C. Could that have an effect?

whitesands

You can calibrate it here http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/hydrometer.html?15354224

The_Gatsby

whitesands wrote: »

You can calibrate it here http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/hydrometer.html?15354224

Hmm, 1.032. Ah well sure I'll leave it and see how it goes. I'll definitely be brewing again so I'll get it right next time.

BeerNut

Lukebray wrote: »

My thermometer is reading about 24C.

Gravity aside, that's very nearly too warm. You should try and take steps to bring that down, if you can.

The_Gatsby

Ok so should I maybe move it outside for a while? I'm at work now so it'll have to wait a couple of hours but will moving it outside be any use? And thanks everybody for all the help, I really appreciate it

lang

Lukebray wrote: »

Ok so should I maybe move it outside for a while? I'm at work now so it'll have to wait a couple of hours but will moving it outside be any use? And thanks everybody for all the help, I really appreciate it

I have wet a towel with cold water (ring it out a bit) and wrap it around the fermenter. I kinda drape it over the top of the fermenter and then wrap the rest around the 'sides'. I then put a bit of cold water on the top of the fermenter to let the towel soak it up. This has brought the temp down for me. You don't really want to be moving your fermenter now that you have it set up.

Tube

24 degrees is almost the same as 20 and will give a very similar reading, only about 2 points out. So a reading of 1.030 is about 1.032.

The_Gatsby

Just a quick question. My stout seems to be fermenting nicely and is at a constant 18C. I have read online that secondary fermentation is not necessary for a stout, is this true?

Also, just to confirm, is secondary where you put a small amount of sugar in the bottom of the bottle and then siphon in the brew?

So if it turns out secondary fermentation is not necessary then how long should I leave primary fermentation? And how do I know that all of the sediment has settled to the bottom of the fermentation bucket?

Thanks for any help

tteknulp

Secondary not really needed ,its preference ,2wks in primary at least 3wk is better , as helps clear brew ,you can bottle /keg then it will clear further

The_Gatsby

tteknulp wrote: »

Secondary not really needed ,its preference ,2wks in primary at least 3wk is better , as helps clear brew ,you can bottle /keg then it will clear further

Thank you, I think I will leave in primary for 3 weeks and then bottle, maybe leaving for another week just to be safe

BeerNut

Lukebray wrote: »

is secondary where you put a small amount of sugar in the bottom of the bottle and then siphon in the brew?

No, this is called priming. The fermentation which happens in the bottle or other vessel is called conditioning. Secondary is when the beer is racked to a clean fermenter.

So: you don't need a secondary but you do need to prime when you're bottling.