Co2 1911/Hi-Capa questions

I Armour I

Hello all!

Basically I am looking to build another 1911, only this time I want it to be Co2.
Now as far as I can tell KJW seem to be the only co2 brand. (I have began to loath WE pistols & green gas haha)
What I am effectively looking for is an MEU slide (front grip serrations, novak compatible sights etc) but with a non-railed body. Here's what I am asking:

1. What Co2 brand/1911 variant do you recommend?
2. How does it compare to a Marui MEU?
3. Are the mags readly available for purchase?
4. Single or Double Stack?
5. Will this slide fit on to let's say this body?
6. What are after-market parts/compatibility like on the Co2 1911's? (springs, pistons, barrels etc.)?

Any other info/opinions would be greatly appreciated!

DeBurca

You can get CO2 mags for the WE Hi-capa range of postols and have the option of green gas mags for the summer months and CO2 mags for the colder winter months
Plus they have a 31rnd double stack capacity

Inari

KJW KP07 MEU, and order a KJW 1911A1 frame off of KJ Works directly; job done. Literally

Darth Phoenix

Lil Armour wrote: »

Hello all!

1. What Co2 brand/1911 variant do you recommend?

Kwc 1911a1 , is in my opinion a few nice performing co2 pistol and good range out of it and mags i find are decent, much better than KJW in any sense. Personally I will be contradicted for this but I find the Kwc 1911A1 more reliable, mag wise by a long shot and the pistol itself too , but thats just my experiance on it

1. How does it compare to a Marui MEU?

Kwc 1911a1 and kjw meu like the one you mention both have a harder kick than the meu even with a tm meu with hardkick system , However out of the co2 1911 I still found the kwc nice to shoot and was more confident with it and had a nicer clank to it , Im not a fan of WE myself but I'm tolded their 3rd / 4th gen stuff is meant to be near on par with tm but i can't verify that myself bar what I'm tolded.

1. Are the mags readly available for purchase?

Yes, Co2 and green gas for Kjw , as for Kwc they can be hard to source but recently the hobbyairsofter shop stocks them now

1. Single or Double Stack?

Kwc single stack, Kjw meu double from what i remember

1. Will this slide fit on to let's say this body?

Possibly, same make, you never know, though slide will have notches for it for ambi safety for a lower end with one safety switch, might look a bit off. I urge ya to consider it from a cost effective point of view for yourself. I'm not a expert on pistols but I'm sure the like's Of Inari will answer that for you as he helped me out on a complicated pistol build myself and he is literally a encyclopedia of knowledge when it comes to pistols.

1. What are after-market parts/compatibility like on the Co2 1911's? (springs, pistons, barrels etc.)?

I'm sure they are but im not familiar , more familiar with green gas tm upgrades, Great possiblity of making your pistol over the limit with terms of tightbore alone with co2 pistols as their close to limit and sometimes you need to pop a shot or two to make sure its under, just from what I find myself.


!

Hope that helps some bit

I Armour I

DeBurca wrote: »

You can get CO2 mags for the WE Hi-capa range of postols and have the option of green gas mags for the summer months and CO2 mags for the colder winter months
Plus they have a 31rnd double stack capacity

Hmmm yeah I just hate WE pistols... for the 3rd time a couple of mine broke (little black plastic piece on the hop-up unit grrrr) But thanks for the reply anyway.) I will be trying a KJ however.

Inari wrote: »

KJW KP07 MEU, and order a KJW 1911A1 frame off of KJ Works directly; job done. Literally

Any idea as to where I can get the KP07 MEU? I searched just there and couldn't find it. MY word the KJ website is hard to use haha . Thanks for the reply

Darth Phoenix wrote: »

Hope that helps some bit

Thanks for the reply dude. Yeah it helped but I think I'll contact Inari like you suggested. Seems to just be knowledgeable on everything

Inari

Sorry for the super quick reply before - I'll go into a lot more depth now.

Firstly, the whole Co2 versus green gas debate is a loaded topic. There are a whole pile of conditions and hypotheticals, with the first and foremost being build material - what do you want the gun made out of? If you are particularly set on metal, then Co2 will be a far more suitable propellant for here in Ireland. However if you are not too pushed on the pistol being metal, then I would strongly suggest investing in a Tokyo Marui 1911 (available in a tonne of styles; 4.3 foliage warrior, desert warrior, night warrior, MEU, M1911A1, Series 70 etc).

When going for Co2 1911's, or even Co2 guns in general you don't exactly have a myriad of options brand-wise. You've got KJW, WE, KWC, Win Gun, RA Tech, Inokatsu, and not much else. Now, your selection of brand is based on the following:
- Model (not all models of pistol are made by multiple brands so depending on exactly what you're looking for you may not have a lot of choice)
- Reliability (how long they last without repair)
- Accuracy (some are infinitely better than others)
- Consistency (shot-to-shot grouping)
- Quality of replication (how close to the real steel you want it to be...believe me, this gets expensive)
- Economy (everything in life, especially airsoft, is on a sliding scale of cost versus value...this is no different)
- Availability of parts (some brands have taken liberties and deviated from the industry standard meaning parts can be a royal pain in the arse to come by)

Model wise you're pretty set on the 1911 operator style, so that rules out the KWC 1911, though there is the Redwolf Custom version which may be of interest? Alternatively you can get into heavy custom work which involves cutting the appropriate holes into the slide so that you can attach different sights. The KJ Works KP07, also known as their MEU, or as the Blackwater BW1911 is pretty much what you're looking for, though comes with a railed frame as standard. It has MEU-style sights, 3-hole trigger, loop-style hammer, straight hammer spring housing, and ambidextrous safety. You can pick up a KJW 1911A1 frame ridiculously easy for buttons, so no trouble swapping over to a non-railed frame. WE have an MEU, but it's green gas only at present, though they are working on Co2 magazines for all of their models...so it may just be a waiting game...though WE single stack pistols leave a little to be desired. RA-Tech do a lovely Kimber Royal II pistol that's steel made (frame and slide), using the KJW KP07 as a donor gun...but it is several hundred euro. Similarly Inokatsu do a gorgeous 1911A1, but once again you'd need to be confident in cutting the sights into the slide. Lastly you have win gun...I am unimpressed with their 1911 due to gas-in-gun design...it just does nothing for me.

With all of the above pistols, the key to understanding which is for you is deciding just how much maintenance you want to be doing. The KJW pistols are great performers; accuracy and consistency is pretty good...certainly top of the clone pile. The trade off is their magazines - the Co2 is very high pressured which wreaks havoc with the nylon o-rings; if they are out of place or worn, the valve doesn't seal and you've got yourself a leaky mag. The spring inside the valve is very thin and recedes due to the excessive cold of the Co2, which can result in the valve remaining slightly open. Labour intensive maintenance solves this - replacing O-rings with nitrile/nitrite o-rings on a semi-regular basis, lubricating all seals, and ensuring all valves are in the correct position. If this doesn't bother you, then look no further. If it does bother you, then look at KWC. KWC have an odd magazine design which is far superior to the KJW equivalent. They do not leak nearly as much as the KJW ones, and are infinitely more reliable. The trade off with the KWC is that it is not entirely marui compatible...they took some liberties in the design field, so although the vast majority of parts are interchangeable...not all are. Both the Inokatsu and RA-Tech use the KJW Co2 magazine, so share the same flaw as the KJW itself.

Accuracy wise it goes KJW > KWC, but there isn't much in it. KWC is certainly good enough as far as pistol requirements go, but the KJW is more accurate. Then again if accuracy is everything ditch the metal and go TM :P

With gas guns your consistency is dependent on pressure and temperature, as well as the regulars of barrel and hop. Fire too quickly and the pressure drops, and bye bye repeat-ability. Generally this is not an issue when used properly, but it is still noteworthy. The KJW is a more consistent performer with a better grouping than the KWC, but fails in the reliability category. The KWC is consistently (albeit marginally) less accurate than the KJW, but more reliable - therefore since it's more dependable, it is arguable that the consistency is superior.

Now, there is different strokes for different folks, so this next paragraph will mean very little to a great many people. When it comes to quality of replication, some excel far more than others...this is where the likes of the RA-Tech Kimber and Inokatsu 1911 come in. They are sublime, and fly where others falter; they are made out of steel, and that does make a subtle difference for those that care. Steel ages far better than the likes of the zinc-alloys used in many other pistols, and on top of that the unbeatable clank of steel-on-steel. Now it doesn't have to be steel to be good quality...and just because of what it's made from doesn't make it good either; quality is a subjective word, and the criteria I am assigning is build (fitment of parts), craftsmanship, finish (casting marks, machining marks etc), weight, balance etc. The KJW are a little oddly weighted. I find they are marginally too nose heave, which leaves the pistol strangely unbalanced. The KWC is lighter, and more balanced, but not made out of as nice a metal...plus although the finish is a more authentic 'off-black' it is not as good nor durable as KJW's paint.

Even going this far you've already isolated the main brands to look at, but there is still more to consider; economy - how much does it cost, and how much will it continue to cost you? Will you need to keep patching it up? How much will it set you back to get it perfect? Will the end justify the means? KJW Co2 pistols kick like mules, and sound intimidating...but they do require intensive maintenance. They are compatible with tokyo marui aftermarket parts so you can make yourself a laser-beam accurate Co2 beast...but as to how much the end product will have cost, well...that depends on just how far you want to go!
KWC is the cheapest pistol, but requires the most work. KJW leaves many options open due to their willingness as a company to sell factory parts to end-users meaning you can get everything you need for very little, but the trade off is you will have more general maintenance on the magazines etc.

So which one do you go for? Well, only you can answer that. You need to think about which aspects of the pistol are more important to you, and what you are willing to compromise on. A budget also helps
From what you've described I would still say just pick yourself up a KJW KP-07 and go to KJW's website to get the part number for a 1911A1 frame, pop them off an email and ask for a price-quote including postage and then you'll be pretty much sorted. Project builds can be as cheap or as expensive as you want...it just depends on where you're willing to call it 'finished'

I Armour I

Thanks Inari! The plethora of information has not only helped me with my judgement and decision, but has also helped my future buys.
I am indeed looking for metal but!! the reason is because I want to sand down different parts of the paint to get that rough steel look about the gun..

Model: 1911, I have had green gas 1911's & my only option for a quality, customize-able replica in green gas would be the guarder kit with marui internals or an army armament with replaced internals. Since I didn't want to venture too far into unfamiliar waters I wanted to ask here.

Reliability: I have had 3 WE pistols & I now know they aren't as good as the others... so anything more reliable than WE does me fine

Accuracy & consistency: I have shot the KJW's & marui's before and with the idea that if need be I can just put Marui or better parts into the gun that puts me at ease

Quality: Well I am not looking for an inokatsu just yet :P but something decent enough that I can call it mine. I can't really do that with any of my pistols except the 5-7... So I don't mind buying individual pieces after the guts are taken care of.

Economy: Well this project is going to make it my top dog. So the money won't be a question as long as I know what I need to buy

Hmm show me this redwolf custom Well the 1911 is just something I have gotten used to and once I reduce my collection down I effectively want a few performers (two 5-7's and maybe a TM 1911) and one little Gem... which will be this...

Well as long as the slide/internals only require to be cleaned/oiled and I won't need to keep buying replacement parts every 20 minutes I wouldn't mind keeping the mags in order... I often take apart every mag I have just to clean them or soak the o-rings in a drop of oil so as long as I know what to do I can/will do it...

Well effectively this will be my Ferarri F430. It's going to be beautiful and suited to my requirements on the outside ( which with the kp07 & standard body, it will) but pack a perfectly mean punch. To start, I'm going to want to have the functioning pistol & body. once the externals are done I'll work on the internals by ordering the appropriate parts. I don't mind maintaining mags as long the piece with in the gun itself aren't going to break within a week or month

Thanks for the help again it was great. I think your original suggestion will be taken on hand for this first big 1911 project with the next one being higher again (royal kimber or metal marui).


Much appreciated