best intervals, speed work for 10k

woody1

so ive been doing longer slower stuff all year and what tiny bit of speed i had has deserted me, im actualy finding it hard to run at what would have been my normal pace never mind a faster pace
theres a local 10k in 4 weeks that id like to at least get back to normal pace or a tiny bit quicker,
what are the best intervals / workouts to add in to what im doing already for 10k distance ... could probably get to do them twice a week..

ecoli

When you say long slow running how was your week planned?

Was it just go out and run as hard as you can and try build distance?

Also what has your mileage progression been like (i.e where did you start and where are you now in terms of number of days a week running and mileage running each training day?)

People could advise you on X or Y sessions but in order to find out where the problem is a bit more information is needed to make accurate assessment

Failing this and you are adamant on just doing the speedwork:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056231396

woody1

ok so i started running about 2 1/2 years ago, bits and pieces 4k here 3k there 10k another day, sometimes fast sometimes slow, no pattern no logic and i wasnt worried about distance or speed, just doing it to keep meself occupied..
did that from about march to dec 2010... prob ran about 500 km total

last year distances were a bit longer, bit less random but mostly just running at a comfortable pace.. so 8-10k 10k max did a burst of hill work in the middle for a particular race and it brought on speed a fair bit that would be 3 times a week in general
did the warriors and a half marathon
total ran last year 750 km 10k pb 2011 49 mins half marathon was 1.59

this year i decided that i wanted to do a few half marathons and the warriors and gaelforce and depending on how it went maybe the marathon
again not overly worried about speed i just concentrated on getting distance up and getting time on feet
so out 3 times a week at a minimum but 4 times more often than not..
distances 10k shortest run up to 23-24 and a couple of 29ks
half marathon 2012 came down to 1.50
ran the 3/4 in athlone in 3.12 i think..
decided against the marathon as id rather take another year and hopefully do it a bit more comfortably
so ive 960km ran so far this year total ..would be looking like 1100km ish for the end of the year

the few liitle runs ive done this week ( recovering from sea to summit ) have been slow as hell .. ive been trying to introduce shorter faster stuff this week but im still running close to 6 min kms when id like to be closer to 5 ...

not looking for miracles but itd be nice to get back to the 49 ish at least ..

ive got small kids, my wife also runs and swims a bit and works random overtime.. so 4 times a week maybe 5 on odd weeks would be as much as i could manage

woody1

1

ecoli wrote: »

When you say long slow running how was your week planned?

no plan

Was it just go out and run as hard as you can and try build distance?

build distance, not running hard, running fairly easy

Also what has your mileage progression been like (i.e where did you start and where are you now in terms of number of days a week running and mileage running each training day?)

mileage at start of year 10k most days progressed to 15k, 20k up to 29k on long runs now but in general most days im still running 10-15k..running 3 - 4 days a week. low week 30k, high week maybe 50 + ISH

People could advise you on X or Y sessions but in order to find out where the problem is a bit more information is needed to make accurate assessment

Failing this and you are adamant on just doing the speedwork:

nah im happy to do whatever but i didnt think thered be time in 4 weeks to do a plan as such so i thought id just add speedwork in and take whatever i got from it

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056231396

ecoli

woody1 wrote: »

the few liitle runs ive done this week ( recovering from sea to summit ) have been slow as hell .. ive been trying to introduce shorter faster stuff this week but im still running close to 6 min kms when id like to be closer to 5 ...

This

Your body has not recovered sufficiently. Sounds to me also like you are running our "easy" runs to hard as given your level I would say running around 6.20-7 min for kms on easy days would be more beneficial. You are not allowing your body to adapt to the stimulus to allow ou to improve. Running hard is all well and good but it is only half of the equation to improvement.

My advice for now would be slow down your easy days and have one day "hard" @ roughly just under 6 min pace for about 20 min (about 3.5-4k)

Train smarter not harder

I know it might seem contradictary to the old "no pain no gain" philosophy but trust me it will help.

Also another thing that will help is adding short strides after an easy run once or twice a week. These are roughly 60-80m efforts (no need to be anal about this) @ target race pace (not all out sprints) with walk back full recovery. This will help with form and running economy which will benefit your overall running.

Personally I think these will benefit you more that intervals at this point in your training

woody1

ecoli wrote: »

This

Your body has not recovered sufficiently. Sounds to me also like you are running our "easy" runs to hard as given your level I would say running around 6.20-7 min for kms on easy days would be more beneficial. You are not allowing your body to adapt to the stimulus to allow ou to improve. Running hard is all well and good but it is only half of the equation to improvement.

My advice for now would be slow down your easy days and have one day "hard" @ roughly just under 6 min pace for about 20 min (about 3.5-4k)

Train smarter not harder

I know it might seem contradictary to the old "no pain no gain" philosophy but trust me it will help.

Also another thing that will help is adding short strides after an easy run once or twice a week. These are roughly 60-80m efforts (no need to be anal about this) @ target race pace (not all out sprints) with walk back full recovery. This will help with form and running economy which will benefit your overall running.

Personally I think these will benefit you more that intervals at this point in your training

funny but to me 6 min kms feels very slow..wouldnt have considered it hard. tried to run with a heart rate monitor before to a recomended rate and sure i was practically walking ..kept finding my way back up to natural pace so i was quite happy to slow down to 6 mins, will try to slow another bit..
i know i havent recovered from the race , but i thought id manage every second km at slightly faster pace .. evidently not though...
but
il take all that on board, try to apply it and we'll see what happens
how many strides 6-8 ?
thanks for that

eldiva

you should have a read of this. it'll explain everything to you but you won't be able to incorporate this withing the four weeks. as ecoli said its train smart not hard

http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf

woody1

ok so just to update,
i semi applied the advice given, in that
when i got out to run i tried to apply
it but i didnt get out half as much as id
have liked, work, children, weather, usual
excuses..
10k was yesterday and i knocked 4.30 off
my ( admittedly very soft ) pb of 49.59..
so the plan is now to try to apply advice given
and stick to a 10k plan after xmas and see can i
get under the 45 minutes...
thanks for all advice given guys..