Tuning RTE/N2/TG4 via Freeview in NI

funkey_monkey

Hi,

I've been trying to tune in the RTE stations on our TV - a Nordmende Saorview TV bought on recommendation of local electrical/TV shop.

I'm able to tune in 131 stations, but so far I can't seem to get the RTE stations. It is driving me nuts trying to figure out why as the setup was bought especially to receive these stations.

We are living on the north coast of Antrim. Prior to digital we received a poorish rte analogue signal and decent uk analogue. Currently, the uk digital stations are coming through loud and clear - I'm just missing RTE.

I was told that this might be due to the signals needing balanced as everything came up to full power.

However, I'm not even sure where I should be looking on the EPG for RTE. The UK freeview website does not define where RTE is to be located on the EPG.

This is confusing me as I believed that RTE would be on Freeview by now. (I also thoguht that I should be able to pick up RTE via saorview if its signal reached here - and so would have a choice of either the NI Freeview version of RTE or the Saorview version).

However, I'm seeing nothing. Any suggestions?


Thanks in advance.

copacetic

They should be on 51 to 53, does the TV support FreeviewHD?

funkey_monkey

It is a Nordmende NM26913LEDM4 which supports MPEG4 but not HD. I was told this was sufficient.

Peter Rhea

funkey_monkey wrote: »

. . . I've been trying to tune in the RTE stations on our TV - a Nordmende Saorview TV bought on recommendation of local electrical/TV shop.

. . . We are living on the north coast of Antrim. Prior to digital we received a poorish rte analogue signal and decent uk analogue.

I'd doubt any Nordmende tv can decode the Freeview HD signal & 'poorish' RTE analogue reception wouldn't bode well wrt Saorview availability.

funkey_monkey

copacetic wrote: »

They should be on 51 to 53, does the TV support FreeviewHD?

51: CBeebies
52: CITV
53: BBC News

:mad::(

funkey_monkey

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I'd doubt any Nordmende tv can decode the Freeview HD signal & 'poorish' RTE analogue reception wouldn't bode well wrt Saorview availability.

Why do you think that the TV can't decode the Freeview HD signal? Not arguing - just trying to understand.

copacetic

funkey_monkey wrote: »

It is a Nordmende NM26913LEDM4 which supports MPEG4 but not HD. I was told this was sufficient.

It is for Saorview, but my understanding is that it is not for the NIMux on Freeview which is a DVB-T2 system. I.e you need a Freeview HD capable box or TV to receive the channels on 51-53. Assuming you are within range of signal.

You will likely be able to tune Saorview itself in if the signal is good enough at your location.

Personally I'd be back to the shop expecting an explanation for why they recommended the TV.

Peter Rhea

funkey_monkey wrote: »

51: CBeebies
52: CITV
53: BBC News

The correct LCNs for those channels are 71, 72 & 80.

ardmacha

Why do you think that the TV can't decode the Freeview HD signal?

The requires a DVB-T2 tuner, which is not needed for Saorview.

poorish' RTE analogue reception wouldn't bode well wrt Saorview availability.

lots of reports here of people with marginal signals getting adequate digital, be they people in Tyrone getting Saorview or people in Meath getting a signal from Divis.

Normally Saorview channels will be 800-807 if the Freeview channels are in first.

Possibly the OP is receiving from Holywell Hill (Derry direction) and so should manually scan on UHF channel 30.

Peter Rhea

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Why do you think that the TV can't decode the Freeview HD signal? Not arguing - just trying to understand.

The MPEG4 video coding is the same as for Saorview, but Freeview HD & the NIMux use the newer DVB-T2 transmission standard, which requires a more powerful chip in the receiver in order to demodulate the signal & get at this data.

ardmacha wrote: »

Possibly the OP is receiving from Holywell Hill (Derry direction) and so should manually scan on UHF channel 30.

It would be Moville in north Antrim, channel 45.

funkey_monkey

copacetic wrote: »

It is for Saorview, but my understanding is that it is not for the NIMux on Freeview which is a DVB-T2 system. I.e you need a Freeview HD capable box or TV to receive the channels on 51-53. Assuming you are within range of signal.

You will likely be able to tune Saorview itself in if the signal is good enough at your location.

Personally I'd be back to the shop expecting an explanation for why they recommended the TV.

Just noticed on the settings menu that the TV 'Country' is set to 'Ireland'. I can see no way to change this to UK (Sinn Fein would be weeping!).

I'll check this in another room as I have a HD TV and HD receiver which does have DVB-T2. Do I just manual tune to DVB-T2 and set the channel to 51. This is currently showing 0% quality and strength. What is going on? I set to DVB-T2 and Ch51 and then press scan - nothing comes up.

Surely, the NI freeview should be giving me the resctricted RTE which it pumps out (RTE minus sporting events shown in NI).

Peter Rhea

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Do I just manual tune to DVB-T2 and set the channel to 51. This is currently showing 0% quality and strength. What is going on? I set to DVB-T2 and Ch51 and then press scan - nothing comes up.

Those nos. in the 50s are the 'logical channel numbers' (LCNs) for the NIMux services, as they should appear in the Freeview EPG.

The actual UHF radio channel used at Black Mountain is 39 (618 mHz).

maxg

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Just noticed on the settings menu that the TV 'Country' is set to 'Ireland'. I can see no way to change this to UK.

You have to do a factory reset to get the country option again.

funkey_monkey

Peter Rhea wrote: »

The MPEG4 video coding is the same as for Saorview, but Freeview HD & the NIMux use the newer DVB-T2 transmission standard, which requires a more powerful chip in the receiver in order to demodulate the signal & get at this data.



It would be Moville in north Antrim, channel 45.

Just checked the spec:

Fully integrated Terrestrial digital-cable TV (DVB-T MPEG2-MPEG4)
HDMI Connectors for digital video and audio
USB input
Programme recording
Programme timeshifting
1000 programmes (analogue + digital)
OSD menu system
Integrated tuner DVB-T, MPEG2, MPEG4 compatible
Scart socket
Stereo sound


One crap feature I noticed is that the integrated recorder cannot record something whilst you watch something else. How rubbish is that. Do any of the other TV's have the ability for the onboard recorder to have twin tuners (i.e. behave like a Sky+ box)?

Also, can I say thanks for these quick replies. I really appreciate it.

funkey_monkey

Peter Rhea wrote: »

The MPEG4 video coding is the same as for Saorview, but Freeview HD & the NIMux use the newer DVB-T2 transmission standard, which requires a more powerful chip in the receiver in order to demodulate the signal & get at this data.

From Wiki:
In practice, however, most MPEG-4 DVB-T compatible equipment, such as that conforming to the UK's Freeview HD standard, is capable of receiving SAORVIEW transmissions, albeit with some limitations to the EPG function. As the Freeview HD system is based on the newer DVB-T2 standard, SAORVIEW reception is dependent on the backward-compatibility of such devices.

I guess the Nordmende is not backward compatible

The Cush

funkey_monkey wrote: »

This is confusing me as I believed that RTE would be on Freeview by now. (I also thoguht that I should be able to pick up RTE via saorview if its signal reached here - and so would have a choice of either the NI Freeview version of RTE or the Saorview version).

However, I'm seeing nothing. Any suggestions?

Go to the Saorview coverage checker to see if Saorview reception is possible in your area - http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

This Ofcom map shows coverage for both Saorview overspill and NImux coverage in NI - http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/files/2012/07/NIMuxFactsheet4.pdf

Based on the specs you posted for that TV it should have no problem displaying the Saorview overspill channels if the signal reaches your area. It doesn't appear to be DVB-T2 according to the specs so no NImux channels if you can receive that signal.

Does the other TV with the DVB-T2 tuner have the NImux channels (RTÉ/TG4/RnaG), epg 51,52,53,729?

funkey_monkey

The Cush wrote: »

Go to the Saorview coverage checker to see if Saorview reception is possible in your area - http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

According to this we are outside. If you look at N. Antrim the coverage is very poor.

This Ofcom map shows coverage for both Saorview overspill and NImux coverage in NI - http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/files/2012/07/NIMuxFactsheet4.pdf

We inside (but close to the edge of) the Saorview coverage area.

Based on the specs you posted for that TV it should have no problem displaying the Saorview overspill channels if the signal reaches your area. It doesn't appear to be DVB-T2 according to the specs so no NImux channels if you can receive that signal.

So, this means that we cannot obtain either Saorview (full fat RTE from RoI) due to lack of signal strength/quality nor NI (limited service) RTE due to no DVB-T2 tuner onboard?

Does the other TV with the DVB-T2 tuner have the NImux channels (RTÉ/TG4/RnaG), epg 51,52,53,729?

No - I can obtain the other HD stations (BBC 1HD, BBC 2HD, etc) on DVB-T2 UHF Channel 55 - signal strength 55% and signal quality 60%. I've tried numerous retunes ans stepped through the DVB-T2 stations, but no strength/quality appears for any other channel.

What am I missing here - I must be missing something simple here? I thought that if I received NI freeview that I would be capable of receiving the NIMux RTE. Why would it not be picked up on this setup?

Tired and frustrated!

funkey_monkey

Just checking some stuff here, what is the channel bandwidth for RTE on DVB-T2?

I noticed in the instructions, that it states under the DVB-T2 section that:
All combinations of the below parameters can be received and automatically detected (Except bandwidth).

The channel bandwidth is 6, 7, 8MHz.

I checked under 8Mhz, going back now to check under the other ones, but where should it be?

ardmacha

I thought that if I received NI freeview that I would be capable of receiving the NIMux RTE.

Not necessarily. As I understand it, some NI transmitters don't have the NiMux including Limavady which is probably nearest to you. Others that have the NiMux broadcast it on lower power than the HD channels.

If you had RTE then getting Saorview is probably the best plan.

funkey_monkey

Hmmm, so I tried tuning in the DVB-T2 box again. It picks up 6 signals but no more new ones. So, no RTE. That is interesting about Limavady. Must be that I can receive neither Saorview nor NiMux. Will the mux be added to Limavady anytime soon?


Thanks for the help.

Peter Rhea

funkey_monkey wrote: »

No - I can obtain the other HD stations (BBC 1HD, BBC 2HD, etc) on DVB-T2 UHF Channel 55

Limavady has the BBC B multiplex (UK HD services) on UHF ch. 55. You won't get the NIMux from there.

Do you have 2 separate aerials, or only 1 pointing Limavady/Moville direction? You would be quite a distance from either site, & although this narrows the angle between the 2, I'd doubt satisfactory reception of both could be obtained with 1 aerial.

copacetic

ardmacha wrote: »

Not necessarily. As I understand it, some NI transmitters don't have the NiMux including Limavady which is probably nearest to you. Even Divis that has the NiMux broadcasts it on lower power than the HD channels.

If you had RTE then getting Saorview is probably the best plan.

NIMux is only transmitted from

Brougher Mountain, Carnmoney Hill and
Black Mountain

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/transmitternetwork/tools__and__resources/almanac/special_editions/Special_edition-010612_NI_trade_update_on_Nimux.pdf

The Cush

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I checked under 8Mhz, going back now to check under the other ones, but where should it be?

8 MHz.

funkey_monkey wrote: »

That is interesting about Limavady. Must be that I can receive neither Saorview nor NiMux. Will the mux be added to Limavady anytime soon.

No. It was originally included in the plan but dropped early on for some reason - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75595269

funkey_monkey

I'll phone the local supplier where I got the TV & tuners from. He seems to know the lie of the land, but said we should be able to receive it. I don't think it should have been as difficult as this.

In case I need to switch to Freesat (which is a possibililty) does RTE come on the Freesat from Sky package now. A relative has this but previously did not receive RTE as it was blocked. Is it there now?

Once again, many thanks for all the replies - I really appreciate it.

Peter Rhea

The only way you'll get RTE free on satellite, is with Saorsat.

Richard

funkey_monkey wrote: »

From Wiki:
In practice, however, most MPEG-4 DVB-T compatible equipment, such as that conforming to the UK's Freeview HD standard, is capable of receiving SAORVIEW transmissions, albeit with some limitations to the EPG function. As the Freeview HD system is based on the newer DVB-T2 standard, SAORVIEW reception is dependent on the backward-compatibility of such devices.

I guess the Nordmende is not backward compatible

The Wikipedia article is talking about Freeview HD equipment (which is DVB-T2 MPEG4) being able to receive Saorview (which is DVB-T). Your Nordmende isn't Freeview HD.

It seems to me that your TV is capable of receiving Saorview, it's just that you can't get a signal. You may well be able to receive RTE from Carnmoney Hill or Black Mountain, but these transmissions are not Saorview and can only be received on a Freeview HD TV/box.


Try the DigitalUK postcode checker here - http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodechecker/ - check "detailed view"

funkey_monkey

Peter Rhea wrote: »

The only way you'll get RTE free on satellite, is with Saorsat.

So I'm looking at another €400 to get Saorsat installed?

I've seen a number of Saorsat boxes on eBay. None of them seem to have twin feeds. Is twin feed (similar to Sky+) a rare spec item?

funkey_monkey

Richard wrote: »

The Wikipedia article is talking about Freeview HD equipment (which is DVB-T2 MPEG4) being able to receive Saorview (which is DVB-T). Your Nordmende isn't Freeview HD.

No, but the setup in another room is DVB-T2 HD freeview tuner by Triax. I think the model is T2-HD 115. I cannot obtain RTE on it. As someone previously said the closest transmitter (Limavady) does not support NiMux.

It seems to me that your TV is capable of receiving Saorview, it's just that you can't get a signal. You may well be able to receive RTE from Carnmoney Hill or Black Mountain, but these transmissions are not Saorview and can only be received on a Freeview HD TV/box.

See response above. I can't seem to get either

funkey_monkey

Just a thought - would uprating the aerial do anything for me?

Richard

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Just a thought - would uprating the aerial do anything for me?

It might, but you need the advice of a local aerial installer.

Digifriendly

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Just a thought - would uprating the aerial do anything for me?

The NIMM is on low power from Black Mountain and reports from other forums suggest it is struggling to get as far north as Broughshane so I guess it would be a struggle to pick it up much further north even with an upgraded aerial but you could still try. If I were you I would look at getting an aerial for decent Saorview reception which would be a bit cheaper than Saorsat and with more channels (no TV3 or 3e yet on Saorsat.)

funkey_monkey

Just found out that I need Saorsat. There is apparently no way around it for us.
However, I've been told that Saorsat boxes don't have onboard PVR ability as yet. Is there anything in the offing for this?

Peter Rhea

Who told you there's 'no way around it'? The Moville transmitter has a generous power output for Saorview, relative to what analogue was, so if you were getting even 'poorish' analogue reception from there, you could be in with a chance.

If you only have 1 aerial pointed at Limavady, or at some compromise angle for both transmitters, it would certainly be worth investigating a more optimised setup.

funkey_monkey

Local installer. Moville is on Ch 45 - same as our local tx. This apparently overpowers the signal. Hence we can't get it - was very definitely told told that RTE could not be obtained via Freeview.

As an aside - for a Saorsat PVR box - only one feed into the box is required for the twin tuner setup (unlike Sky which requires 2 feeds). Correct?

http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/

•A dual tuner Recording box will only need one coax unlike Sky/Freesat which needs two

Peter Rhea

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Local installer. Moville is on Ch 45 - same as our local tx. This apparently overpowers the signal.

That would be Ballycastle then? It's very low powered, fairly directional & uses opposite polarisation to Moville, so you'd need to be in its actual target area (the town, I presume) for it to be troublesome, I would think.

funkey_monkey

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=22293.285

Limavady has all the Freeview services, but not NImm multiplex. If you previously had RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TG4 on analogue but no TV3, it looks like you were receiving from the Moville relay across into Inishowen. TG4 analogue also disappeared from Moville on the 9th October itself as that frequency was now being used for the BBC A (SD programmes) multiplex from Limavady.
Try a Freeview set-top-box or TV with a manual tuning option, and try and tune in to channel 45 or 666MHz - this is the frequency being broadcast for Saorview from Moville. You aren't close to Ballycastle by any chance?

A known problem seemingly with us near Ballycastle...

lawhec

The Gortnageeragh relay is another potential culprit, as it uses E45 for a Freeview multiplex with vertical polarisation.

funkey_monkey

Am I correct in assuming that all the transmitters will now be up to their set power and it is now stable?

i.e. opting for Saorsat now will not be jumping the gun?

funkey_monkey

Hi - one final thought. I've been using the inbuilt TV tuner to attempt picking up RTE and a HD Triax 115 box (which cost approx £80).

If I bought a better spec box would it have a better receiver and therefore might get around this issue?

Also, I was thinking of trying a different aerial. Would there be any type and what sort should I get?

Peter Rhea

Can't really recommend a different aerial for you, without knowing what you already have . . .

funkey_monkey

I think it is something like:

Peter Rhea

You could try aligning the existing aerial more towards Moville & see if there's any improvement. Since you seem to be receiving from Limavady & also had an analogue signal of sorts from Moville, I'm assuming you're not in the town of Ballycastle itself, which being in a valley, requires its own relay transmitter, mentioned already as a source of interference to the Moville transmissions in your area.

This relay is a low power site (2.6 watts), less than a mile to the SE of the town. The interference would be worse on the town side of the site, with not much being radiated the other way.

shadow007

Hi

Just bought an I-can easy freeview HD box and reciving 80 UK channels but no RTE here in Bangor. The UK digital states that reception may be varaibale at my address but is receivable by my neighbours across the road from me. Can anyone advise how to manually search for RTE progs which I understand are being relayed via Divis (my transmitter). eg what frequency.

Regards
shadow007

The Cush

shadow007 wrote: »

Can anyone advise how to manually search for RTE progs which I understand are being relayed via Divis (my transmitter). eg what frequency.

Black Mountain Ch.39
Carnmoney Hill Ch.48

http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/files/2012/07/NIMuxFactsheet4.pdf
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/transmitternetwork/tools__and__resources/almanac/special_editions/Special_edition-010612_NI_trade_update_on_Nimux.pdf

shadow007

Thanks for that but unable to pick up a signal on these frequencies. It seems anything above 500mHZ is not available so I may need an aerial upgrade as suggested by a local TV installer with prices starting around £90. Will have to think about that. Ay ideas about brands,etc?

Regards

shadow007

Peter Rhea

shadow007 wrote: »

. . . unable to pick up a signal on these frequencies. It seems anything above 500mHZ is not available so I may need an aerial upgrade as suggested by a local TV installer

Nothing above 500 mHz? If that was the case you'd be missing the multiplexes on channels 26, 27 & 29, as well as the NIMux.

Older group A aerials (Divis broadcasts are all in channel group A) were intended for channels 21-34, so might struggle a bit with channel 39. In the mid 1990s, the group was extended up to channel 37, so these aerials would stand a better chance.

Richard

shadow007 wrote: »

Hi

Just bought an I-can easy freeview HD box and reciving 80 UK channels but no RTE here in Bangor. The UK digital states that reception may be varaibale at my address but is receivable by my neighbours across the road from me. Can anyone advise how to manually search for RTE progs which I understand are being relayed via Divis (my transmitter). eg what frequency.

Regards
shadow007

If you are receiving Divis, it sounds that you're not getting all the MUXes as you should be getting well over 100 channels. What's your reception like on the channels you can get? You may need your aerial moved/replaced. If you can't get all the normal MUXes, it's unlikely you'll get the NIMM which carries RTE.

It is also possible you're receiving the Bangor transmitter which is at the bottoms of Bryansburn Road, near the 5 way junction with Princetown Road, Gray's Hill etc. You won't get RTE from there, if that's the case. A new aerial is probably required.

shadow007

Thank you for your reply. I have checked again and see that I can only get RF Channels 21, 23, 24, 26, 27 and 29 which is in fact a maximum level of 538 MHZ. Howevere anything above this I cannot get especially Ch 30 to 39. Do you think it may be sufficicient top move direction. Given that I have signal meter on my i-can easy box it may be worth a try before buying anew aerial. Everyone was told that following DSO a coat hanger would be strong enough with the new increased signal strength!! Once again thank you for reply. shadow007

shadow007

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Nothing above 500 mHz? If that was the case you'd be missing the multiplexes on channels 26, 27 & 29, as well as the NIMux.

Older group A aerials (Divis broadcasts are all in channel group A) were intended for channels 21-34, so might struggle a bit with channel 39. In the mid 1990s, the group was extended up to channel 37, so these aerials would stand a better chance.

Thank you for your reply see my response above.

Richard

Here in Bangor for Christmas, i have been looking at trying to get RTE tv reception. The only boxes/TVs in the house are Freeview SD, so I wasnt hopeful of getting anything, unless the box or TV did MPEG4 and I could get Clermont.

No joy when I tried yesterday, but today, on my Curtis Freeview box, RTE RnaG appeared on 729. No signal, however, yet the box knew to put it there, and is displaying correct programme timeings but with (mostly) garbled programme names and EPG info. See the attached image.

The only exception I can see is 18:00-18:30 where it displays "Nuacht a Sé ]7'= ذزJilQعvز÷Ûb"

As you can see, it includes some Arabic characters.

I wouldn't have thought the box would even see the NIMM as I bought it in 2009 and it is presumably only DVB-T as it doesn't have an HDMI port.


Just investigated further and it is showing up on Ch23 which is the SDN Mux.

Odd!

Souriau

You need a Freeview HD, DVB-T2, UK Freeview approved receiver to get RTE1, RTE2 and TG4
My neighbour bought a Mini DVB-T2 from ebay and all text on the DVB-T2 are scrambled and confusing text, illegible text.
It seem that UK is using the DVB-T2 UK D Book which is not compatible with any other DVB-T2 receiver