Divided over marriage

outoftheblue

About a month ago my boyfriend and I got in to an argument over marriage where he told me he never wanted to get married while it is something I value and want to do. We have been together about 4 years and over the years have never seriously discussed it but have made comments etc about if we ever get married we will do this, that etc.
We have since broken up because he believes he would be holding me back if I really want to get married in the future and doesn't believe his position will change.
When I asked about whether it was marriage in general or marrying me he said it is marriage itself and he could see us together with kids, a house etc .

We were happy up (despite financial issues and stresses) until this revelation and I feel we jumped to conclusions, split quickly over this and didn't talk it through properly.

Am I mad to think we can still have a chance or am I better to cut my losses and try move on?

StillWaters

He seems very entrenched in his view, so the question is, are you? Have you examined thereasons why marriage is important to you, and is there any compromise you would be happy with?

ElleEm

Well look at it this way- Do you want to spend the rest of your life with him or do you want to be married to someone else?

I just think if you have a guy who loves you and wants to spend his life with you, would you give that up for a wedding?

LegacyUser

He's stated he can see kids& a house in your future- both these are far more binding than a marriage. Has he outlined any particular reasons re the anti-marriage stance?
The fact that throwaway comments have been made in the past ("if we ever get married, we will do this") would worry me, as he was clearly aware that marriage was on YOUR cards, but failed to enlighten you as to his strong views against it.

tinkerbell

ElleEm wrote: »

I just think if you have a guy who loves you and wants to spend his life with you, would you give that up for a wedding?

I think that is neither here nor there. It's not about giving up a wedding, it's about what it means to be married. If the couple have kids, the dad has no automatic rights unless they are married. If something bad were to happen to either the OP or her boyfriend, they are not each other's next of kin - from being looked after financially or making decisions in the hospital. You get rights when you get married, in that you are recognised as the person's spouse and become their next of kin, not just "oh that's just the girlfriend". I don't understand people who want to have kids and buy a house together but will not get married. This whole crap of it's just a sheet of paper is rubbish, it's not.

OP have you spoken to your bf about his reasons against it? Perhaps he sees the expense of having a wedding as the reason, rather than actually thinking about marriage itself. You can get married for €150 you know, if you want to.

outoftheblue

Its not the wedding for me, I value marriage itself, the idea of commitment and life together.
He however has not had a very good model of marriage, parents have had a difficult marriage and have always told him never get married. From the chats we have had, he is not comfortable continuing together because he does not think I will be fully happy without marriage and feels like he would be holding me back.
Initially I was willing to compromise but I cannot guarantee that in a few years time after going to friends weddings, etc that my wish to be married won't enter my mind again. As I said, the wedding isn't that important to me its more the commitment to each other.
When we discussed it in the past he would contribute. He said it was only when it came up recently and we had the argument that he realised how strongly he felt about not getting married.

username123

I agree with the poster who said that its worrying that he knew it was on your agenda but didnt care to enlighten you it wasnt on his - even if he didnt feel that strongly about it, he should have been clear he wasnt really into the idea.

I dont know, for me personally it would be a deal breaker. There is no compromise on it, its like having children, you cant say you will meet halfway, its all or nothing.

I believe that you may come to resent it down the line if you do stay with him and dont marry.

I dont really understand a position against marriage. Its a legally protected term in our constitution whereby you get some advantages like being able to use each others tax credits, inheritance rights and for him, automatic rights concerning any children, plus next of kin - there may be other advantages. Of course, the emotional commitment is important too.

There are disadvantages of course, but only in the event of a break up - youd hardly go into it thinking you are going to break up though. Besides, once you have children and property there is probably as much legal messing in a unmarried break up anyway - especially since the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010, much of which has yet to be tested in court but allows for non spousal maintenance etc...

I think if he is willing to let you go because he wont marry you then that in itself speaks volumes. Many women would want to marry, is he going to go through life breaking up each time the subject comes up? Sure, maybe he will get lucky and find someone who agrees, but maybe not?

spankysue

I've been in your situation OP, I've been with my oh for 14 years and he's always said he doesn't want to ever get married. I would love to get married to him, but I've accepted it and it doesn't bother me anymore because being with him is more important to me than being married. Only you can decide which you'd prefer...

Morag

Does he object to being married or it is a wedding he is objecting to?

strandroad

I don't think it's worth salvaging, if he found this issue worth breaking up with you outright. Whatever are his views about marriage (and I am not a fan of weddings or social pressure myself) it is an important legal act and commitment, especially if you indeed wanted to start a family, buy a house etc. It merits at least a mature and deep discussion over time even if it to be eventually rejected; his attitude "I won't do it so goodbye" is not good enough and doesn't make it look like he was serious about life commitment at all.

LegacyUser

Yeah the issue is not whether or not he wants to marry. It's also not whether of not you can live a life without marriage in it as the reality is that he has given up and walked away. He doesn't see a future as he doesn't think the op can be happy making such a sacrifice. The question should be how to move on without him as it seems they any kind of relationship is off the table.

outoftheblue

Thanks for all the advice, its great to get impartial views.
Moving on seems to be the hardest thing as we both still love each other, the divided view over marriage is the only thing keeping us apart. But it is not going to change so time to try to start letting go.

tinkerbell

outoftheblue wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice, its great to get impartial views.
Moving on seems to be the hardest thing as we both still love each other, the divided view over marriage is the only thing keeping us apart. But it is not going to change so time to try to start letting go.

OP, if you're willing to just walk away without having a proper mature conversation about this major issue then you probably weren't right for each other anyway.

outoftheblue

tinkerbell wrote: »

OP, if you're willing to just walk away without having a proper mature conversation about this major issue then you probably weren't right for each other anyway.

We have met and had conversations but neither of our views have changed, he feels I won't be fully satisfied without the option of marriage in the future and I cannot guarantee that I will be happy without it.

P. Breathnach

OP, I share your basic position in the sense that I am pro-marriage.

In one sense, marriage is a public declaration of enduring commitment to one another, and very often that is the dimension on which people focus. But there is another realm to consider also, that of legal rights. Perhaps your former partner has not given weight to matters such as ownership of a home, rights and obligations in relation to children, the status of being counted as next-of-kin, and inheritance rights and tax matters relating to inheritance. Have you discussed such matters with him?

LegacyUser

OP, keep the channels of communication open. Let your boyfriend know you are trying to see his point of view. If you find in the end you cannot agree with him, let him know that too. Meet up with him and try to discuss the situation with him. It will not be easy and it is simpler to just walk away. But if you love this guy don't just throw 4 years away. You have invested in this relationship and should not walk away lightly.

If in the end you have tried everything to fix things and you still cannot agree, then you have to split up for good. Until you have tried every avenue, though, keep the communication channels open. That said, it is probably very good for you both, too, to spend lots of time apart and not to be in touch so that you can think clearer.

Have been through a similar situation myself recently, not on the subject of marriage but on the subject of whether we have children or not. It's not fun. But I now feel at peace because I know I have done everything I can to rescue our relationship. I have told my boyfriend I am moving on but that if he changes his mind (I, unfortunately find it impossible at the moment to change mine) he is welcome to come back anytime. Depending on how soon he comes back (if he does!) I may or may not be with somebody new. It was my only option or else I would have gone off the rails!! The last few months have been hell but I have no regrets now because I know I did my best to fix things.

Best of luck. I really hope things work out for you.

LegacyUser

There is no such thing as a common law wife/husband in Ireland.
You and your oh could live together for years, have a home and children but if anything happens to either of you the other person or your children could be left in a very bad position.
His parents/family members would have a legal entitlment to your home and you could end up paying a large tax bill. Also if you had children and something happened to you he would not have any legal rights in regards to his children.
I can understand why you want to get married and after 4 years of being with your oh this is a conversation you should be having.
He may think you want an expensive wedding day but marriage is about so much more.
After 4 years with someone they should know that marriage is important to you and he should be willing to tell you why he is so anti marriage rather than say I have no interest in getting married.
I would tell him why you want to get married. I would decide before having this chat how long more you are willing to wait for him to show you the commitment you want. I know one person who is now in her mid 40's who is not married and did not have a family.
She was with her oh for 10 years and asked him when are we getting married and having a family. He told her I have no interest in this. She broke up with him and got back again with him later. She wasted years with a man who did not want what she wanted and as a result is now on her own in her mid 40's.
I have known several girls who were with there oh for a number of years and when the marriage and kids questions came up realised that he would never change his mind.
They ended there relationships and when on to meet someone who wanted the same as them.

Sleepy

A conversation about what aspects of marriage it is that he finds objectionable may be beneficial as under the recent civil partnership bill, were you living together for 5 years (or 2 if children are involved) most of the potential pitfalls of marriage apply to co-habiting couples unless you specifically opt out of them...

sullies

OP, l know exactly how you feel. I was with a guy for 4 years and marriage was the crunch for us. He told me that he never wanted to get married even though we loved each other. I found this difficult to accept as marriage is the ultimate commitment. We broke up shortly after this and low and behold 4 years later l find out (on facebook) that he actually got married to a girl. In the end he was prepared to marry this other girl but not me. If he loves you and doesn't want to live without you then he will do whatever it takes to keep you in his life. This "holding you back" is nonsense and deep down l think you know that too.

mood

sullies wrote: »

OP, l know exactly how you feel. I was with a guy for 4 years and marriage was the crunch for us. He told me that he never wanted to get married even though we loved each other. I found this difficult to accept as marriage is the ultimate commitment. We broke up shortly after this and low and behold 4 years later l find out (on facebook) that he actually got married to a girl. In the end he was prepared to marry this other girl but not me. If he loves you and doesn't want to live without you then he will do whatever it takes to keep you in his life. This "holding you back" is nonsense and deep down l think you know that too.

When ever this topic comes up on Boards most people tell the person who believes in marriage that they should be happy just to be with their partner and marriage is not important. I don't agree with this. I think if marriage is important to a person it will always be in the back of their mind. I think in most cases it just means the boyfriend.girlfriend don't want to full commit the the current boyfriend/girlfriend but often go on to marry other people. I've seen this a few times.

The bottom line IMO is if you don't want the same things for the future like marriage and kids then your better off going your to separate ways.

username123

mood wrote: »

When ever this topic comes up on Boards most people tell the person who believes in marriage that they should be happy just to be with their partner and marriage is not important. I don't agree with this. I think if marriage is important to a person it will always be in the back of their mind. I think in most cases it just means the boyfriend.girlfriend don't want to full commit the the current boyfriend/girlfriend but often go on to marry other people. I've seen this a few times.

The bottom line IMO is if you don't want the same things for the future like marriage and kids then your better off going your to separate ways.

+1

Said far more comprehensively that I myself could have stated it!!! I have seen the 'Ill never marry' get married a few years later to someone else myself also.

The bolded part is of paramount importance imo, people have to want the same things out of life otherwise one is going to feel resentful that they didnt get what they wanted out of life while the other did.

Maguined

sullies wrote: »

OP, l know exactly how you feel. I was with a guy for 4 years and marriage was the crunch for us. He told me that he never wanted to get married even though we loved each other. I found this difficult to accept as marriage is the ultimate commitment. We broke up shortly after this and low and behold 4 years later l find out (on facebook) that he actually got married to a girl. In the end he was prepared to marry this other girl but not me. If he loves you and doesn't want to live without you then he will do whatever it takes to keep you in his life. This "holding you back" is nonsense and deep down l think you know that too.

Would the inverse not also apply? If the partner who wants marriage truly loves the other and doesn't want to live without them then they would do whatever it takes to keep them in their life? ie stay together unmarried?

sullies

mood wrote: »

I think if marriage is important to a person it will always be in the back of their mind. I think in most cases it just means the boyfriend.girlfriend don't want to full commit the the current boyfriend/girlfriend but often go on to marry other people. I've seen this a few times.

The bottom line IMO is if you don't want the same things for the future like marriage and kids then your better off going your to separate ways.

I think you are right. Separation is probably the right thing for you. Marriage is about freely standing in front of the most important people in your life whom you love, publicly declaring your commitment and devotion to your partner. It's saying to the world 'this is the person whom l have chosen to the spend the rest of my life with'. It's about publicly making vows to love and support each other throughout your lives. Before l met my husband l also said that l would never marry (my sister recorded on the camcorder as a laugh as she knew it was really fear talking and that one day l would get married). But after l met him l knew that marriage was a celebration of what we had between us. Your bf sees marriage as a negative thing and uses his parent's marriage as an excuse, yet no two marriages are the same. My husband came from an appalling background with domestic abuse and yet has every faith in marriage. What sort of emotional security will your kids have when they will have to explain their family set up to friends..."yeah, we all live together but my parents aren't married". I don't think that's healthy as we live in a society full of tradition where we live in family units....not just emotionally but also legally.
I know another girl who was with her fella for 9 years and argued a lot about marriage. After 9 years he gave in to pressure and they got engaged. After a few months he broke it off saying that marriage was not what he wanted. She went on to another relationship and has the most beautiful family. He recently got married also. What l'm saying is that marriage wasn't right for them because they weren't willing to freely make that huge commitment to each other. IMO move on and be with someone who wants the same things as you, and has the same beliefs and values as you.