270 to 300 winmag

fitzy700

lads just looking for a bit of advice my mate is using a 270 for deer and he is thinking of changing it for a 300 winmag but he is worried about the recoil can anyone let me know if they have used both and is there much of a difference with the recoil just to add he would be putting a mod on it aswell any information would be appreciated

thanks fitzy

endasmail

the recoil will be manageable with a moderator on
(unless hes a total fairy)

steyrman2

Hi i have a .300 winmag and find it very easy on recoil with mod and just as good with muzzle brake great knock down power

It wasn't me!

Is he using the .270 without a mod? If so, I'd say he'll find a moderated/braked .300 to be pretty close to the un-modded .270 in terms of recoil. Certainly, if he doesn't mind the .270, the .300 won't bother him with a mod. It's about like a .270 or a .308 standing alone.

alan270

Well lads wat way would recoil on da 300win mag when it be sittin on a aics stock plus the mod towards a 270

4200fps

Hard to know. Some people are very sensitive to 270,308's and some aren't. You will feel a nice difference and higher the grain the more the kick but at least you will know there unbelievable energy delivered from it. Put it this way at 1500yards she travels at 750fps and produces the same energy as a 223 would at its muzzle so you will get an idea what she will kick like with a heavy load. At 300yards the 300winmag round has the same energy as a 308 would have at its muzzle. Might give you an idea on what she will be like

FISMA

fitzy700 wrote: »

lads just looking for a bit of advice my mate is using a 270 for deer and he is thinking of changing it for a 300 winmag but he is worried about the recoil can anyone let me know if they have used both and is there much of a difference with the recoil just to add he would be putting a mod on it aswell any information would be appreciated
thanks fitzy

Fitzy,
I would recommend that you stick with the 270. I have a 30-06 in Eire that I use for hunting and a 338Win Mag in the states. From what I understand the 300WM is more like the 30-06 than the 338. That's good!

From what I have heard, the 270 is to the 30-06 as the 30-06 is to the 300WM.

I shoot the 30-06 all day. The 338 is just too expensive to shoot a lot. What are the prices, availability, and selection of ammo like for the 300 in Eire?

I look at it like this. The 270 is a 3-5 boxes at the range. The 300 would be 2, and the 338 - at most 1. The human factor here is difficult, but if y'er man put his shoulder into the firearm, he'll be fine. It's not like a 50cal.

FYI - here's a a few kick calculators for you
http://www.huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/
http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/recoil.htm
http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/lobby/1221/recoil.htm

I think you have the perfect round for Eire in the 270.

If set on the 300WM, work away, life is too short to not buy the gun you want! It won't kick as bad and if it does, use lighter bullets. Also, when reloading comes your way, you'll be able to play with the powder loads.

rowa

I priced .300 win mag ammo before and it was very expensive, i stuck with the smaller calibres.

steyrman2

alan270 wrote: »

Well lads wat way would recoil on da 300win mag when it be sittin on a aics stock plus the mod towards a 270

Hi i had this setup and it was easy to use for long range work but heavy for stalking recoil was next to nothing

Cass

4200fps wrote: »

Put it this way at 1500yards she travels at 750fps and produces the same energy as a 223 would at its muzzle so you will get an idea what she will kick like with a heavy load.

What does?

The average .223 produces a minimum of 950 - 1100 ft/lb at the muzzle up to 1500ft/lb depending on bullet/load. A .270 or 300 WinMag at 1,500 yards is producing a maximum of 400 ft/lb or so.

I'm not disputing the hard hitting effect of either round, but the above numbers simply don't add up.




Open to correction.

rowa

Are the deer armour plated that he needs a .300 win mag to knock them or is he going to use it abroad for wild boar or something ? Sounds like complete overkill on anything we have in ireland.

It wasn't me!

When I was pricing ammo for a .300 mag before, it was averaging about €5 per box more than the same brands and bullets in a .30-06. Since most people probably don't fire ten boxes a year, it really wouldn't be the biggest issue in terms of whether I'd buy one.

It's a good round, and while it's a good thump, it's manageable in a sensible weight rifle. I've fired .300 mags down to about eight and a half pounds, and they were pretty okay. Fired a .30-06 (with 150s) that wasn't much over seven pounds though and that cleared my sinuses out a lot more roughly! Why is he moving away from the .270 though?

4200fps

Ezridax wrote: »

What does?

The average .223 produces a minimum of 950 - 1100 ft/lb at the muzzle up to 1500ft/lb depending on bullet/load. A .270 or 300 WinMag at 1,500 yards is producing a maximum of 400 ft/lb or so.

I'm not disputing the hard hitting effect of either round, but the above numbers simply don't add up.




Open to correction.

When i'm at my homeplace i will send the video about it as a link. Its saved on the history on the other computer. He was using a heavy load. It was what they were saying while testing its perrformance. I was amazed with what they said. At 1000 yards it puts out 1700 or 1750 ft-lbs they claimed

4200fps

rowa wrote: »

Are the deer armour plated that he needs a .300 win mag to knock them or is he going to use it abroad for wild boar or something ? Sounds like complete overkill on anything we have in ireland.

I'd love to burst a Feral goat of a mountain with oune tho

4200fps

Heres a video of one. Cant find the one that tells all about it but this one says about its energy in subtitles tho
Its a cannon an nothing other than a cannon http://youtu.be/_HbUvZ9Rq6s

It wasn't me!

A 210gr bullet (Berger VLD) of BC .617 starting out at 2900 FPS is arriving at 1000 yards with 1209ft/lbs of energy. It's not a cannon. It's one of the smaller fast .30 calibres. It's very versatile, but it's not some shoulder-crushing monstrosity that'll ignite grass twenty feet in front of you.

4200fps

It wasn't me! wrote: »

A 210gr bullet (Berger VLD) of BC .617 starting out at 2900 FPS is arriving at 1000 yards with 1209ft/lbs of energy. It's not a cannon. It's one of the smaller fast .30 calibres. It's very versatile, but it's not some shoulder-crushing monstrosity that'll ignite grass twenty feet in front of you.

Well hardly its a cannon or a Javlin I was just saying how powerful it is as its not a pee shooter and I personally think its a beast of a caliber and a great caliber for very high energy. When I say its a cannon its like the phrase someone would say about a strong guy-''he's strong as an ox'', if you get my drift.

alan270

I was thinkin of a custom made 270win H barrel for da aics stock for target shooting and aswel as my hunting gun and it cost around a gran or so its cheaper to tread back da reminton 270win and get 300win mag since da aics stock is made for it', so i know da 30,06 is da middle of da two and that the 270 is a faster and flatter round so i was just thinkin the 300win would be the one for da job,,

It wasn't me!

4200fps wrote: »

Well hardly its a cannon or a Javlin I was just saying how powerful it is as its not a pee shooter and I personally think its a beast of a caliber and a great caliber for very high energy. When I say its a cannon its like the phrase someone would say about a strong guy-''he's strong as an ox'', if you get my drift.

I got the metaphor, but what I'm saying is it's about perspective. In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big cartridge. Even among the .30 magnums, it's one of the smaller ones. It's not a dangerous game cartridge for instance. It's for shooting essentially medium weight bullets at pretty respectable velocities for flat trajectory and higher velocity on impact (translates to more aggressive bullet performance) than the likes of a .30-06 at the same range. I'm not denigrating the cartridge at all. It's a favourite of mine, as I've said many times, but it's not a big bore or anything of the sort. A friend of mine is off to RSA this week for another safari, where he'll be using a .300 Blaser Magnum (Pretty much identical ballistics to the .300 win) and with animals on the list ranging from impala and springbok to an eland, I can't imagine that it'll be any different to the uniform excellence of the .300 win either. However, he'd be the first to say that if it weren't a cull hunt, with the eland likely to be relatively runty, he'd be stepping straight up to the .375 H&H, because the .300 magnums are all about thin-skinned ungulates.

zeissman

alan270 wrote: »

I was thinkin of a custom made 270win H barrel for da aics stock for target shooting and aswel as my hunting gun and it cost around a gran or so its cheaper to tread back da reminton 270win and get 300win mag since da aics stock is made for it', so i know da 30,06 is da middle of da two and that the 270 is a faster and flatter round so i was just thinkin the 300win would be the one for da job,,

I would just get a 308 if I were you.
You will have a better range of ammo for hunting and targets.
Barrel life will also be a lot better and you will probably shoot better with it as the recoil will be less than the 300 win mag
I wouldnt worry about the flat shooting part of things as you will have to adjust for longer ranges no matter what caliber you use.
If you use a rangerfinder and a scope with target turrets adjustments for long range can easily be made if need be.

tac foley

zeissman wrote: »

I would just get a 308 if I were you.
You will have a better range of ammo for hunting and targets.....

...not to mention a lot cheaper as well. If THAT matters?

tac

Cass

4200fps wrote: »

He was using a heavy load. It was what they were saying while testing its perrformance. I was amazed with what they said. At 1000 yards it puts out 1700 or 1750 ft-lbs they claimed

He had to have been using a seriously HOT load with heavy bullet to achieve even close to the claimed numbers above. Even with that he still wouldn't make the numbers being discussed at 1,500 yards. To hit the 1,200 ft/lb marks at 1,500 yards you would want something like a 240gr SMK, with BC of .711 doing 3300 fps. I'm not sure that's even possible.

It wasn't me! wrote: »

A 210gr bullet (Berger VLD) of BC .617 starting out at 2900 FPS is arriving at 1000 yards with 1209ft/lbs of energy. .

Which would be hitting the 600 ft/lb mark at 1,500 yards ...............

4200fps wrote: »

Heres a video of one. http://youtu.be/_HbUvZ9Rq6s

............ and still does not achieve 1,200+ ft/lb at 1,500 yards. Rouglhy 850.


I'm not trying to prove the gun cannot do it. I'd say with the right bullet, and load it could be possible to come close to the claimed energy (while i still doubt it's achievable).

However my point is in countries where you can reload freely, and taking into consideration you don;t much care for the beating your gun/action etc takes from such hot loads it's all academic. Anyone with a .300 WinMag would be using factory rounds which would not come close to the stated speeds or energy output of the videos on youtube.

I could push a .308 so hard that i'd come close to .300 WinMag speeds, and energies however i wouldn't be behind the rifle when fired for fear of a catastrophic failure.


The .300 WinMag is no doubt a huge hitting caliber. I'd agree with rowa above. It's really overkill for any animal being hunting here in Ireland. Unless using it here, and abroad for larger game at longer distances, and taking into account the cost of ammo, etc there are other calibers that are better suited, cheaper to run, and work just as well.

alan270

I know the 308 would be good gun aswel which ive shot a few times on or days out but ive to stick to da long action over havin a aics long action in 270 which only leaves me 3 rounds 270,30.06,and 300win, the 300 shoots the 180g like 270 shootin da 140g sst but hittin harder and da 308 is slower wit da heavy 180g towards da 300win shootin da same load,for da target shootin days out,

rowa

alan270 wrote: »

I know the 308 would be good gun aswel which ive shot a few times on or days out but ive to stick to da long action over havin a aics long action in 270 which only leaves me 3 rounds 270,30.06,and 300win, the 300 shoots the 180g like 270 shootin da 140g sst but hittin harder and da 308 is slower wit da heavy 180g towards da 300win shootin da same load,for da target shootin days out,

Also the .25-06 , and .280 rem.

tac foley

Alan270 - having read your last post I have to say that I've totally lost the aim of it.

Harder hitting? Dead is dead, it's deer that you are shooting, not velociraptors.

There is nothing on the island of Ireland that actually NEEDs a .300WM to drop it where it stands, and the .308Win is a proven soft-skinned game-getter at ALL the ranges that you might have in mind, unless you intend to shoot from one county into another.

tac

foxer3640

Hi there. I bought a steyr ssg in 300 win a few years ago to stalk deer and ended up regretting it. Firstly the gun was too heavy. I put up with it for a while but soon grew to hate it. secondly the damage to the carcass was massive unless the shot was really spot on. It still kicked as hard as my mates light 270(both unmoderated). I ended up trying to trade it for a 25-06 but couldnt get anywhere near what i paid for it (because of the cal and weight of gun) so i hung on to it and bought the 25-06 anyway. The 300 is in the safe and has not been fired for nearly two years. Theres no denying that its a hard hitter but its total overkill for anything we shoot in ireland. I know sometimes you just have to scratch that itch but believe me when the novelty wears off you will regret it. Just my experience.

ormondprop

The way i see it there are three reasons to buy a .300 win mag or similar calibers

1: to hunt abroad
2: for s*#ts and giggles if you have money burning a hole in your pocket
3: to say this


There are way better calibers both for hunting and target shooting in ireland that are cheaper, easier to shoot and perform better

alan270

Hi foxer i take it da u give me da answer da it was a itch i had to scratch and seem da u went down da road and got the 25.06 and lock away the 300 so ill keep 270win since im hittin everything ot 500yards ill get a better range founder to get me out further for da money i would of threw away. So thanks foxer and cheers lads for all da replies, alan270

fitzy700

well lads thanks for all the replys i should have said at the start of the post the reason he wanted to change to a higher calibre was we have being using two .270s and a .308 for the last two seasons with great effect but we have the use of some land that is very flat with very little cover so long shots are a must at times we have had 1 or 2 runners last season so thats what the extra power was wanted for, plus he was going to do a bit of target work aswell thats why he was worried about the recoil for the accurate long range shots

fitzy

Lullymore24

fitzy700 wrote: »

well lads thanks for all the replys i should have said at the start of the post the reason he wanted to change to a higher calibre was we have being using two .270s and a .308 for the last two seasons with great effect but we have the use of some land that is very flat with very little cover so long shots are a must at times we have had 1 or 2 runners last season so thats what the extra power was wanted for, plus he was going to do a bit of target work aswell thats why he was worried about the recoil for the accurate long range shots

fitzy

Why is a runner a Big issue in flat ground with No Cover?
Surely an animal runs max 50-100 yards with a heart Lung Shot from a .270 or .308?
It sounds more like Poor shot placement and no calibre will make up for that....

fitzy700

i hear what your saying about shot placment but to be honest he's not (kelly bachand) at 4 to 5 hundred yards your calculations are not always going to be bang on if they were none of us would ever miss thats why he wanted the bigger calibre for more energy at the point of impact to reduce the chance of an injured animal getting away

fitzy

tac foley

fitzy700 wrote: »

i hear what your saying about shot placment but to be honest he's not (kelly bachand) at 4 to 5 hundred yards your calculations are not always going to be bang on if they were none of us would ever miss thats why he wanted the bigger calibre for more energy at the point of impact to reduce the chance of an injured animal getting away

fitzy

Sir - shot placement is all - using the lesser calibre as an excuse for poor marksmanship does not wash.

A poor shot with a .300WM is not the same a good shot with a .270 - if the shooter is uncertain of his target, then the bullet should stay firmly attached to the rest of the cartridge.

That, Sir, is MY opinion.

tac

fitzy700

tac foley wrote: »

Sir - shot placement is all - using the lesser calibre as an excuse for poor marksmanship does not wash.

A poor shot with a .300WM is not the same a good shot with a .270 - if the shooter is uncertain of his target, then the bullet should stay firmly attached to the rest of the cartridge.

That, Sir, is MY opinion.

tac

tac sir im sure he is always certain that he is going to hit the target if he was'nt he more than likely would not take the shot what im saying is it does'nt always work out perfect and if he was off a small bit he would still have a good chance of bringing the deer down with the bigger calibre

thats my opinion,sir

Glensman

fitzy700 wrote: »

tac sir im sure he is always certain that he is going to hit the target if he was'nt he more than likely would not take the shot what im saying is it does'nt always work out perfect and if he was off a small bit he would still have a good chance of bringing the deer down with the bigger calibre

thats my opinion,sir

and mine.

More poweful calibres allow for a larger margin of error.

Vegeta

I have seen deer shot with both .270 (Sako 75 hunter unmoderated) and a .300 win mag (remington 700 in AICS stock with a T8 on the end).

The Sako was horrible to shoot, simply put, most uncomfortable rifle I've ever shot. I'd like to shoot a similar rifle again with a moderator to see what it's like because the .270 round itself is great. That rifle was just too light for my recoil absorbing abilities.

The .300 win mag is very mild mannered because of the weight of the rig. Very similar to steyrman2's set-up above. Easily twice the weight of the previous .270 rig but an absolute pleasure to shoot in comparison.

In terms of meat damage the worst I've seen over the years between a .243, .308, .270 and 300 win mag was from the .270. Shoulder bones of a deer completely obliterated to a gritty coarse texture. At worst, I'd imagine .300 would be as bad as a .270 depending on what you hit and what type of bullet was used but I've never seen what I'd classify as bad meat damage from the .300 win mag.

The ammo for the .300 is about the same price as quality ammo for other calibres. Maybe cheap stuff is harder to come by, we tried to get cheap PPU stuff but the supplier never came through for us, but for hunting ammo like Hornady there is very little in it.

It wasn't me!

Vegeta wrote: »

I have seen deer shot with both .270 (Sako 75 hunter unmoderated) and a .300 win mag (remington 700 in AICS stock with a T8 on the end).

The Sako was horrible to shoot, simply put, most uncomfortable rifle I've ever shot. I'd like to shoot a similar rifle again with a moderator to see what it's like because the .270 round itself is great. That rifle was just too light for my recoil absorbing abilities.

The .300 win mag is very mild mannered because of the weight of the rig. Very similar to steyrman2's set-up above. Easily twice the weight of the previous .270 rig but an absolute pleasure to shoot in comparison.

In terms of meat damage the worst I've seen over the years between a .243, .308, .270 and 300 win mag was from the .270. Shoulder bones of a deer completely obliterated to a gritty coarse texture. At worst, I'd imagine .300 would be as bad as a .270 depending on what you hit and what type of bullet was used but I've never seen what I'd classify as bad meat damage from the .300 win mag.

The ammo for the .300 is about the same price as quality ammo for other calibres. Maybe cheap stuff is harder to come by, we tried to get cheap PPU stuff but the supplier never came through for us, but for hunting ammo like Hornady there is very little in it.

Bit of an off-topic aside Veg, but Ezridax was talking about Jim Griffin getting in some of the GECO stuff a while ago, and they do a 170gr soft point for the .300 win mag which I've seen advertised for about €33-36 a box on the continent. It's not the cheapest in the world, but GECO themselves advertise it for use on small and medium game. If you got a bit of a discount for buying a hundred or so it could be a viable practice round too. I think I remember you posting a photo of a recovered 180 Hornady Interlock and the entirely realistic wound channel a while ago though to demonstrate that the .300 isn't just a monster, smashing up meat.

rowa

fitzy700 wrote: »

well lads thanks for all the replys i should have said at the start of the post the reason he wanted to change to a higher calibre was we have being using two .270s and a .308 for the last two seasons with great effect but we have the use of some land that is very flat with very little cover so long shots are a must at times we have had 1 or 2 runners last season so thats what the extra power was wanted for, plus he was going to do a bit of target work aswell thats why he was worried about the recoil for the accurate long range shots

fitzy

Maybe then stick with the rifle he has and buy a ghillie suit ? Get closer and hit them right ? If the land is open and coverless thats what i would consider.

A couple of lads i know went over to scotland (very open and coverless) to stalk deer last year , they didn't bother bringing their own rifles to save messing about with the licencing paperwork, the estate rifles they were given were .243's. When they asked about the suitability of the calibre they were told if they couldn't take the deer with them they shouldn't be shooting, after all its deer stalking , not deer target practice.

tac foley

rowa wrote: »

... its deer stalking , not deer target practice.

This.

tac

tac foley

Glensman wrote: »

and mine.

More poweful calibres allow for a larger margin of error.

I guess that's where we must agree to differ.

Upgrading the calibre and therefore the effective range of your shot should never be a reason for excusing inadequate shooting skills and misjudged shot-placement.

If you are not humanely killing the beast at 500m or so, then you owe it to the animal to get nearer. Here in UK, most deer/stags are taken at ranges substantially less than half of that.

As Rowa notes, THE definitive calibres in Scotland tend to be around the 7mm bracket, where the hunter/stalker has to actually employ skill to get his shot, rather than rely on the extra range and energy that comes from a heftier round.

If this is an unpopular point of view, then so be it.

tac

Glensman

tac foley wrote: »

I guess that's where we must agree to differ.

Upgrading the calibre and therefore the effective range of your shot should never be a reason for excusing inadequate shooting skills and misjudged shot-placement.

If you are not humanely killing the beast at 500m or so, then you owe it to the animal to get nearer. Here in UK, most deer/stags are taken at ranges substantially less than half of that.

As Rowa notes, THE definitive calibres in Scotland tend to be around the 7mm bracket, where the hunter/stalker has to actually employ skill to get his shot, rather than rely on the extra range and energy that comes from a heftier round.

If this is an unpopular point of view, then so be it.

tac

Your answer is in relation to long-range shooting, a separate debate. I have never taken a deer past 330yards.

Some calibres are more efficient at killing than others. These allow a larger margin of error. That's just fact. As you said this isn't target shooting, so you can't control the variables- such as wind, rain, angle etc etc.

fitzy700

tac foley wrote: »

If you are not humanely killing the beast at 500m or so, then you owe it to the animal to get nearer. Here in UK, most deer/stags are taken at ranges substantially less than half of that.

tac

fair enough about getting closer but that was the whole idea about getting the bigger calibre to be as humane as possible at the distance,i have seen once or twice bad shot placement at even at 200 yards,can you honestly say that your shot placement has never been off a small bit

fitzy

rowa

It is said that a bullet should have an energy level of around 1,000 ft/lbs (when it hits the animal) to kill a deer cleanly, even the relatively small .243 has this much energy at 400 yards. There are a good few lads on here having good results with the humble 30-30 in lever actions.

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/2012CatalogCenterSpread.pdf

tomcat220t

Power is no substitute for poor shot placement .
Some of the .270 rounds have near 1500ft lbs @500 yards ...Its not lack of hitting power if your getting run-off with a .270 on irish deer !
Regards ,Tomcat.

alan270

Do half of ye on this shoot deer! I hit a fallow deer at 353 yards with 140g sst superperformance and the bullet passed right through the deer's heart and lungs, she got up and ran 70 to 90 yards. When we got her you could have put a tennis ball in the exit wound and you could see the lungs liquidised inside there, even with a perfect shot placement they can still run :rolleyes:

rowa

alan270 wrote: »

Do half of ye on this shoot deer! I hit a fallow deer at 353 yards with 140g sst superperformance and the bullet passed right through the deer's heart and lungs, she got up and ran 70 to 90 yards. When we got her you could have put a tennis ball in the exit wound and you could see the lungs liquidised inside there, even with a perfect shot placement they can still run :rolleyes:

How then would a larger round help ? The bullet passed through without transferring its all of its energy into the animal. A larger round would have done exactly the same thing.

tomcat220t

alan270 wrote: »

Do half of ye on this shoot deer! I hit a fallow deer at 353 yards with 140g sst superperformance and the bullet passed right through the deer's heart and lungs, she got up and ran 70 to 90 yards. When we got her you could have put a tennis ball in the exit wound and you could see the lungs liquidised inside there, even with a perfect shot placement they can still run :rolleyes:

Hi Alan,perfect shot placement ???...... Heart /Lung can more times than not have that effect on deer .Would a 300 WM have kept her down with that shot placement ?
Regards,Tomcat.

alan270

Well tomcat, that I don't know that's one of the reasons I asked about the 300 win mag wud it have helped with a heavier grain bullet but everyone is saying the 270 is plenty for deer which I know it is since I have it the last two seasons but I don't like it when the animal is running after getting hit, makes you think that you missed till you see it hit the ground...

tomcat220t

alan270 wrote: »

Well tomcat, that I don't know that's one of the reasons I asked about the 300 win mag wud it have helped with a heavier grain bullet but everyone is saying the 270 is plenty for deer which I know it is since I have it the last two seasons but I don't like it when the animal is running after getting hit, makes you think that you missed till you see it hit the ground...

Hi Alan,.270 might be a little pucky for some shooters,
might not be the best round in wind for some shooters,
might not be the most accurate round out there....
but ive not heard many shooters say it lacked hitting power for irish deer.
IMO,the 300 WM would not have performed any better @ 353 yards on your shot .
Heart/Lung is only one shot of many that can be taken on game .
Regards,Tomcat.

rowa

alan270 wrote: »

Well tomcat, that I don't know that's one of the reasons I asked about the 300 win mag wud it have helped with a heavier grain bullet but everyone is saying the 270 is plenty for deer which I know it is since I have it the last two seasons but I don't like it when the animal is running after getting hit, makes you think that you missed till you see it hit the ground...

Just one of those things, i don't think it would have been any different if you had used any other round. Sometimes they are dead but just don't know it.

4200fps

At the end of the day the 300winmag is designed really for big game an long range shooting for Elk,moose and buffalo shooting. Mind my spelling.
Thats really what bullet manufactures state what this round is suitable for. I'd use it on mature red deer during the rutt in this country if I had one.

fitzy700

lads we could go on about shot placement here all day,id like to be as good as some of the posters on here then i could have just stuck with a .243 and have no worries :rolleyes:,but im not and at the end of the day fact is fact and the bigger calibre would allow for a bigger margin of error if a normal person like myself were to be off a bit at any distance more energy equals more damage

regard's fitzy