Last shot at my marathon PB, advice needed

Marthastew

Background;
Female, age 46, started running in April 2008.
For the first few years my training was fairly basic with no speed work and then 18 months ago I bought the bible/P&D.
Total of 12 marathons (including Donadea 50K and Connemara Ultra this year).
Current PBs
Martahon 3.34.43, DCM October 2011
Half-marathon 1.35.53, Kildare May 2012
10K 42.45, WMM June 2012
8K 32.33, June 2012
5K 20.03:eek: June 2012

I started the P&D 55-70 mile a week plan in June with sub 3.30 as my goal in Berlin but foolishly ignored a niggle in July which then became a fairly serious injury in August; hip flexor/Piriformis/tight psoas issues which took a while to diagnose and treat so I was unable to run for seven weeks:eek: I was told to forget Berlin and keep fingers crossed that I would be able to pace DCM and have fun in New York. Luckily for me I was extremely diligent with my recovery and returned to running 10 days before Berlin and was given the all clear to run it as a training run with a view to getting back on track for New York:D My main focus when I returned to running at the end of September was to remain injury free so I gradually built the miles back up and stayed away from speed work. I had planned (very optimistically) to head out at 7.55 pace in NY and give 3.30 a shot last Sunday but as most of you know the marathon was cancelled (right decision, wrong timing IMO).
Hardworker and his crew are very kindly running a marathon in Phoenix Park for all those Irish who were registered in New York and it takes place on November 18th so I now find myself with an extra 11 days to prepare for a sub 3.30 attempt. My question is..... (and sorry for taking so long to get to it) What should I do from now until race day? Follow a taper plan? But taper from what? Reintroduce speed work? But is it too late? the one area I'm strong in is endurance with following LSRs under my belt;
Sep 23rd.; 19 miles in 3 hours
Sep 30th; Berlin marathon in 3 hours 47 mins
October 15th ; 23 miles in 3 hours 39 mins
October 29th; Dublin marathon pacer 4.15
Nov 4th; Runanyway marathon (4 and a half laps of Central Park) in 3 hours 53 mins (paced my friend to sub 4).

I got out for a lovely recovery run today and was full of energy and no niggles so it's all systems go:) I'm just not sure what system (if any) to go with;)
All advice greatly appreciated and I promise not to hold anyone personally responsible if I take onboard their suggestions and then blow up on November 18th

Kurt Godel

Marthastew wrote: »

it takes place on November 18th so I now find myself with an extra 11 days to prepare for a sub 3.30 attempt. My question is..... (and sorry for taking so long to get to it) What should I do from now until race day? Follow a taper plan? But taper from what? Reintroduce speed work? But is it too late?

Its too late to do any training that will improve on where you are now. You won't see any gain from speedwork (too soon to be doing anything beneficial after the DM anyway), and its too close for any LSR's to have an impact. Basically, you are as fit as you're going to be.

So the important thing is to keep ticking over- still a long way to go until the race. You don't need a 3 week taper, not it the condition you're in. Focus on the mental aspect- your positive attitude while pacing Dublin helped an awful lot of 4:15 guys overcome their pain, that was very obvious. They pushed themselves further than they expected, with your encouragement. So focus on that yourself, prepare for the pain in going for your PB, on when you will hurt, and go for the PB. You're in good shape, you have the ability and legs to do it, its all mental at this stage. Its going to hurt like it hurt for those 4:15 guys, but you're well capable of hurting enough to get under 3:30.

Woddle

Loads of short runs(4/5/6 milers) at 7'55 pace (not incl w/u and c/d) should get the body used to marathon pace but by only doing short runs it should leave you wanting to do more which is the way you want to feel as marathon day approaches.

pistol_75

Why you say last shot MS? You mean this year right?

ultraman1

just htfu and knock it out.....id say/know ur well able for it going by your long runs,just lay off the choc rice krispy cakes for a while........but u shud go out at 5km pace for as long as you can;)

career_move

Saw this on Halhigdon. Might be some use to you.

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51232/Marathon-Alternate-Marathon-Training-Program

Krusty_Clown

I'd have to agree with the previous posters. You have run sooo many long runs in recent weeks (otherwise known as marathons) that you shouldn't give a second thought to endurance and 11 days just isn't a significant enough amount of time to positively influence your speed. Your primary areas of concern should be:

1) Making sure that you make the start-line as fit, niggle free and healthy as you can be
2) Make sure your head is in the right place (confidence).

Woddle's suggested pmp runs will remind you that the pmp miles feel comfortable and that the goal is achievable. Other than that, taper... again....

menoscemo

It'll be no bother to you. You were pacing a few 1:45 Halfs earlier in the year and they didn't take a flinch out of you. You would have easily knocked out a sub 3:30 marathon back then and it took no speed work for you to get into that shape. You don't need speed work now either, just get to the startline fit. I agree with Woddle though, do a few short PMP runs to get back to having a feel for that pace....

tunguska

pistol_75 wrote: »

Why you say last shot MS? You mean this year right?

I didnt get that either. Surely you mean last shot this year, I mean it seems like you're only getting going with your running carrer.
As for the marathon in the phoenix park, you cant really get any fitter between now and then but you could feck yourself up so all you can do is keep it ticking over. The marathon is in the phoenix park though so you can count on it not being an easy course. I'd definitely go out at a conservative pace if I were you.

Marthastew

Thanks all for your advice and suggestions.
My new plan until race day;

• no more Rice Krispie buns (after I finish this one I'm eating now:D)
• Keep the legs ticking over with some PMP miles
• Work on my confidence
• HTFU on race day

pistol_75 wrote: »

Why you say last shot MS? You mean this year right?

Actually on re-reading that it does sound a little dramatic, like I'm being sent to prison or I've been diagnosed with a serious illness;) Sorry, I do mean this year.
I plan to spend next year trying to catch up with Mr Stew:)

breffni blue

3.30 shud be no bother to ya, this year i ran connemara invitational(3.54) and connemara ultra the next day(6.18), I ran about 20 miles per week for 5 weeks and then at the belfast marathon i ran 3.28.49, i only did 1 x 7mile pmp run 3 days before the marathon, you smash all my pb's 5k(23.00), 5 mile (36.40), 10k(46.40), half marathon(1.41.27), so IT IS ON......it's all about belief...previous pb was 3.35.37

RacoonQueen

And make sure you turn up at the start line rested at the same time. In less than two months you've done marathon distance 3 times, make sure you're rested and legs are knot and stress free. Plenty of foam rolling and a massage (or two). You'll be fine. I reckon if I'd got my couple of long runs done in October I'd have done 3:30 in DCM - you can definitely do it.

blockic

Marthastew wrote: »

Sorry, I do mean this year.

Phew!!! *panic over*

longford76

Marthastew wrote: »

Hardworker and his crew are very kindly running a marathon in Phoenix Park for all those Irish who were registered in New York and it takes place on November 18th

Hi Marthastew, have you had any contact from the marathon organisers about the marathon on the 18th November? Just wondering are they contacting us or should we try getting in touch.

I was in the same boat in New York as you and keen on taking part in this to get the most from all the training.

Thanks

endswell

Marthastew wrote: »

Thanks all for your advice and suggestions.
My new plan until race day;

• no more Rice Krispie buns (after I finish this one I'm eating now:D)
• Keep the legs ticking over with some PMP miles
• Work on my confidence
• HTFU on race day

Actually on re-reading that it does sound a little dramatic, like I'm being sent to prison or I've been diagnosed with a serious illness;) Sorry, I do mean this year.
I plan to spend next year trying to catch up with Mr Stew:)

runnersworld had an article at weekend on 3 different marathon plans to link training from nyc non-runner and a replacement, cant hunt it down on this phone sorry

Marthastew

longford76 wrote: »

Hi Marthastew, have you had any contact from the marathon organisers about the marathon on the 18th November? Just wondering are they contacting us or should we try getting in touch.

I was in the same boat in New York as you and keen on taking part in this to get the most from all the training.

Thanks

We're supposed to get an email by the end of this week, probably Monday at the latest. If you haven't heard anything by Monday maybe drop them an email at office@dublinmarathon.ie? Best of luck with the taper (again) and see you on the 18th

endswell wrote: »

runnersworld had an article at weekend on 3 different marathon plans to link training from nyc non-runner and a replacement, cant hunt it down on this phone sorry

Thanks for that, I'm posting this here in case anyone wants a look. It's much like the Hal Higdon one careermove posted earlier

http://askcoachjenny.runnersworld.com/2012/11/how-do-i-prepare-for-a-plan-b-race-after-nyc.html

I've had no Rice Krispie buns today:), 10 days to go

belcarra

I thought the target time had moved to sub 3:19 as of DCM?
;-)

Marthastew

belcarra wrote: »

I thought the target time had moved to sub 3:19 as of DCM?
;-)

I'm saving that target for London:) Although by then he'll have knocked a few more minutes of his PB in either Rotterdam or Barcelona, why did I ever convince him to start running???:D

BTW, what's your target for Valencia?:D:D:D

belcarra

Marthastew wrote: »

I'm saving that target for London:) Although by then he'll have knocked a few more minutes of his PB in either Rotterdam or Barcelona, why did I ever convince him to start running???:D

BTW, what's your target for Valencia?:D:D:D

A few seconds faster than 3:30!;)

Marthastew

belcarra wrote: »

A few seconds faster than 3:30!;)

Can I interest you in a smackdown?:D
I've never had a smackdown so I'm not sure how they work but I just saw a thread on the main forum and I love all that fighting talk;)

Loser makes rice krispie buns? That's serious fighting talk:)

BeepBeep67

Marthastew wrote: »

Thanks all for your advice and suggestions.
My new plan until race day;

• no more Rice Krispie buns (after I finish this one I'm eating now:D)
• Keep the legs ticking over with some PMP miles
• Work on my confidence
• HTFU on race day

Nothing much to add to that list except treating yourself to a massage early next week.
Best of luck.

Marthastew

Thank you all so much for your sound advice and words of wisdom:)

I'm happy to report back that I got my PB; 3.25.17:D

A very long-winded, rambling report of the day can be found here


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056509699&page=46