Bales instead of Pit?

Fermec

Hi All. Before i Start i just want to Say how Great i find This Forum is for Ideas Advice. I Check it most Days , But Rarley Post a Reply as i find the People on here are Far Better (Smarter) than i am in there Farming Knowledge, . Anyway i have Been Following with Great Interest Lately The Post of the Guy That Was Thinking of Doing his own Silage!... This year we did 38 acres of Pit Silage for 1st Cut, We Normally Just Make Bales after that for 2nd Cut. We payed the Contractor 4,200 Euro all in Pit Covered out the Gap. My Question is Would it be Cheaper for me to do All Bales Next year?. ,. I Can Mow , Rake , & Stack the Bales Myself., All id have to get the Contractor to do is Bale & Wrap! I supply the Plastic We have a Headfeed/ EasyFeed type System, Milk about 70 cows, & all Land is in one Block.. No Diet Feeder. I know its a Dose Jumping off to Open each Bale, But So is Taking the Tyres off the Pit on a Wet Cold Day .... Looking Forward to Opinions on this, Sorry for Long Post Thanks.

simx

thats me that put up the post about doing own silage, i have always been a fan of pit and never liked bales that much but my father loved bales mad for them, this year i made bales aswell on a few strong paddocks i cant see it being cheaper maybe better quality but it depends on a lot of factors but you should be focused on quality and then value,

this year i did 170 bales @ 6.50e/bales baled and wrapped i mowed and tured some of it he raked it too which i believe is good value at 6.50/bale

say you did 38 acres of bales average 10 bales/ac say
my price of 6.50/bale x 380=2470e just to pay contractor
then plastic@ 80e/roll,30 bales a roll(although some dont do 30) thats 2.66e bale
your bale is costing 9.16e now before you work out diesel for mowing/tedding/stacking/fertilizer and drawing bales is a time consuming job
for 380 bales(10/ac) @ 9.16e/bale=3480.80e before your own diesel
say cut sward you spread 3bags/ac x 38 acres=5700kgs@430e/ton=2451e include this now and it adds 6.45e to a bale making it now 15.61/bale x 380 bales 5931.8e but id say there would be more than 10 bales/ac reducing this cost alright but your diesel isnt included yet,bales are quite expensive,if you could bale strong paddocks it would greatly reduce fert bill

1chippy

convenience taking bales off strong paddocks would be your main benefit from making your own bales. 38 acres in one cut is tying up a lot of ground for a single cut when your milking 70 cows. if you were increasing no.s and worked your grass land management you could probably carry a lot more.
Pricewise by the time you include your own time, machinery, diesel, depreciation and breakdowns i doubt you would save any money making your own bales.

charityboy

by going all bales on the 38 acres you might leave yourself in a position to make very good quality silage but you defo wont save any money out of your pocket

example
38 acres at 10 bales per acre, 380 bales
bailing and wrap 6 euro a bale
plastic 2.80 euro a bale total 3344 euro
half price costs (not paying yourself which you should be) mowing 1 euro raking 0.50 euro and stacking 1 euro total 950 euro
all in 4294 euro + your time +wear and tear on your machines

Farmer Pudsey

You paid contractor 4200 euro did this include plastic cover etc. We will assume that you will get 10 bales/ acre of silage.

the advantage of pit silage is that it is done in one day by contractor thereby reducing workload this can be a disadvantage as well as often contractors will not allow crop to wilt the often want to mow this evening and put in the pit tomorrow morning hail rain or snow as they are in the area.

While bale silage can drag on because you can cut in stages this is often an advantage as you can let some fields thah were last closed until next week, you also at present do not need silage slab ( not an issue for you as you have one already). While there is a cost to you in mowing/tedding and drawing in the reality is that you may have a superior product I must emphaise the word ''may'' as lot of farmers fail to make good bales. You also if you geta a good wilt reduce you bale/acre down and conversely if you do not you amy end up with 12 or 12/acre.

While you will have more wear and tear doing extra work it will not be a huge amount and 380 bales should not add a huge amount to your workload.

Have you much pit losses as with good quality bale silage there should be minimum losses if handled right. If you did not have a slab and had to put one in bale silage would come in at same price. Also while removing netting and plastic is a pain if you are able to put full bale's in front of cowes then the second you may only have to push them in.

Bales have another advantage they can be stored from one year to the next with minimum losses and also can be used during the summer to supplement grass if stocks are low for a week or two. Have you ever had 20 ton of silage left over that was no use to you ( i know that people cover it again but there are losses associated with this ) however 30 bales left in the yard can be quite safe.

However do not think that we are all smarter that you, you seem to have stuff to offer this forum, taking it that you make 38 acres of silage (380 bale's ) and take out excess paddocks (100 bales) milking 70 cow's that is short of 7 bales/cow without taking replacements into account for wintering them. You run a tidy operation

Fermec

Thanks For Reply Lads, So It Woudnt Work out Much Cheaper to Do Bales, We Buy the Plastic ourselves to cover the Pit, I Lied about the 70 cows. We Were back to about 64 This Year, ( Probably Just aswell due to Weather), But do hope to be back up near the 70 mark again Next Year. We Have a Silage Slab, only about Five Years old.. Earth bank for Walls, It Works Fine, A Little Waste @ the Sides but no more than i see on other Farms with Walled Pits. I Still Like the idea off all Bales Tho, as you dont have alot of Ground Tied up @ the One Time. I Had intended to cut Nearly 50 acres for 1st Cut This Year, But The Weather took Care of that,. We Farm 150 acres of Heavy type Soil, with abot 25 acres Reclaimed. So feel Free to Tell me that we are understocked .

6480

i have my own baler wrapper and mower but i only bale grazing that gets strong .i put all the rest in the pit alot easier and quickier to feed out and i can spin a 5 foot block right around in a double passage so feck all grapping to do in the morning

dzer2

I have being making all bales for 20 years now. There is pros and cons to both sides. The main advantage to the bales is if you come under pressure you can cut what you can handle. We make silage most weeks as we only take out strong paddocks the silage is very good quality and it allows maximum return of slurry spreading also it allows for minimum return time for the paddock as it is greened up in a couple of days. If your milking you dont need to spend long days at silage so you need to plan properly. You will make better silage and this should reduce meal imputs and increase milk returns. Bales can be handy in years like this you can feed a few without opening the pit. Most important is to get the bales in as soon as possible after they are made.

ford bo

We made all bales this year we had 38 acres at home and 28acres in a outside farm it was so wet this summer to travel fields with trailers there was no choice either bales or no silage my father loves the bales now easy to handle when chpped they break up easy so easy to pike no waste no mouldy silage can be transported on the road by loader compared to pith more space taken up load of waste from the sides u have secondary heating if not used nearly every day can not be transported.cattle can often get displaced stomachs from pit silage been too short so I am totally for bale silage ...

ford bo

I am replacing a window on a ford 7600 I need gas struts for the window eg sizes any suggestions anyone. .!???

rs8

perhaps you could get your pit done cheaper? from what i worked out you pay €110 per acre? maybe get a contractor in for €85/90(?) 38 x 85 - €3230 and you could mow it yourself saving you € 20 an acre 38 x 20- €760 ! so if you tried to do it this way if suited you could make the pit for €2470 approx before diesel for mowing it

wagon silage

Fermec

I Have Thought of going down the Wagon Route aswell. But My Contractor doesnt have one & to be honest i dont want to push them out either! They are Very good to me, Let me Borrow gear etc.. They Have a Baler Wrapper allright. Am i right in Saying the Wagon Silage is more Bulkey & harder to Make a Pit with it? But has a Longer Chop Lenght, So Better for Cows Rumen.?..

Muckit

Baled silage seems to turn into silage easier. You also don't have all your eggs in one basket either so to speak, in that if one punctures, it just that one that spoils. Also because you only open when and what you need, its easier to keep.

You have the extra hassle and stresses associated with drawing them in the summer though. And they do take up more space if you don't have a front loader to stack them. In the winter, I find there's more labour involved with them, taking off the wraps, taking off the net, untangling the loose bit of silage from them and finding suitable dry storage for this waste. It is harder forked than pit silage, even the 'chopped' bales, that don't really seem chopped when compared to precision chop. Cattle pull silage into the slats.

Pit silage has the advantage of being made all in one day, and in a matter of hours for many smaller farmers. Once it it clamped and rolled, there is no immediate panic with covering and sealing it. There is work involved with it though and it isn't a job that can be done comfortably on ones own. With a bulky heavy crop, it can work cheaper than baling.

Benches of silage do have to be opened in winter, tyres thrown back and sheets rolled. Secondary fermentation has to be dealt with and controlled. Not that easy if you have low stock numbers and a small slab necessitating a high pit face. A low pit face is always perferable in this situation.

If you work to the strengths of both, they are both equally good ways to make silage.

The way I see it, If you are the type of farmer that likes to close up dedicated ground to silage for +8weeks, then baled silage will find it hard to compete with pit silage. If you are more an embassodor of getting the most from grazed grass and put your emphasis on this, then baled silage taken off heavy paddocks is an excellent way to control grass quality, while at the same time make excellent silage in an economical way. Pit is not an option here in most cases.

There are also the areas of land quality, location, topography, handling and storage facilites etc etc to consider.

It's horses for courses really. Both have a place when used to their strengths.

yellow50HX

Had looked at the possibility of putting in a new slab and tank next to shed but the amount of silage we use now is less than it was so it doesn't make much sense. The cost of the slab and harvesting would probably work out near to the same amount of the bales over a 10 year period, and i dont do silage every year. Try to use straw, hay (weather permitting), kale and beet to keep my silage costs down. We have good bales with very little waste so its good for us.

As for chop length i assume you are doing precision chop with a self propelled harvester. The chop length of a wagon can be modified by changing the number of knife's. This will change how the silage is backed up as the fine PC cut will flow easier then a longer cut.


The use of a pit makes more sense the more silage you use. Lad down the road did pit silage this year for the 1st time in about 15 years as he had about 40acres to cut and it had got very heavy after he missed the 1st break in the weather to get it cut. Reckoned he would have had close on 600-700 bales if he wrapped it. If you have a good modern pit then there is no reason not to us it IMO. I would go with doing your 1st cut in the pit and then instead of doing a 2nd cut do bales on strong paddocks, takes out the need to do topping. That way you have the best of both worlds. If your happy with your contractor to make good silage and your land can take the heavy machinery then i would keep doing the main cut that way.

6480

second cut always seems better in bales

Timmaay

Bales v pit is something that I've been mulling over also! We currently have one big 70acre 1st cut, put in 3pits, then do the rest in bales. The pit silage turns out great most years (although I could definitely do with putting abit more effort in covering it to reduce waste, like putting plastic on the walls before we put the silage in, and then overlap that under the top cover).

We feed the bales to the cows in the early winter when they are only in 1/2 the time, its a pain in the arse to be honest, bales/feeding passage/slatted tank don't good together, Last winter I had get fun mixing up the slurry, there was too much long bale silage dragged into it. We just opened the pit last week, usual 1st few ft weren't great quaility, but now that the cows are getting the better silage in the middle of the pit, they seem much happier and have it all ate, whereas there would always be waste after bales.

So from all those points of view, bales are a pain in the arse. But there is the whole closing off strong paddocks argument, and I definitely want to grow more grass in the future, and improve my grassland management! The stocking rate on the farm at the minute is very low (less than 1 cow/ac), so I've scope to bump numbers when quotes go. I don't know weather to go with another silage pit (or more likely, make one of the older ones bigger), or just press on with bales in the future, and more smaller volume silage cuts. The land is dry enough however also, so maybe I shouldn't try to make anymore silage, and instead boost paddock infrastructure, and extend the grazing season as long as possible also.

I suppose the question that I'm asking, are people who go with one big 1st cut that goes into their pits always going to be sacrificing overall grass yields, due to variable grass growth/weather etc? (Ie one big 1st cut is effectively trying to farm by calendar, and you could end up making big sacrifices with either out of control paddocks, or too little grass for the cows later on in the summer with changes in weather.). Where is the balance point between this and the hassle of bales for the average 100cow diary herd, or is that something that is too individual to each farm?

yellow50HX

Timmaay wrote: »

Bales v pit is something that I've been mulling over also! We currently have one big 70acre 1st cut, put in 3pits, then do the rest in bales. The pit silage turns out great most years (although I could definitely do with putting abit more effort in covering it to reduce waste, like putting plastic on the walls before we put the silage in, and then overlap that under the top cover).

We feed the bales to the cows in the early winter when they are only in 1/2 the time, its a pain in the arse to be honest, bales/feeding passage/slatted tank don't good together, Last winter I had get fun mixing up the slurry, there was too much long bale silage dragged into it. We just opened the pit last week, usual 1st few ft weren't great quaility, but now that the cows are getting the better silage in the middle of the pit, they seem much happier and have it all ate, whereas there would always be waste after bales.

So from all those points of view, bales are a pain in the arse. But there is the whole closing off strong paddocks argument, and I definitely want to grow more grass in the future, and improve my grassland management! The stocking rate on the farm at the minute is very low (less than 1 cow/ac), so I've scope to bump numbers when quotes go. I don't know weather to go with another silage pit (or more likely, make one of the older ones bigger), or just press on with bales in the future, and more smaller volume silage cuts. The land is dry enough however also, so maybe I shouldn't try to make anymore silage, and instead boost paddock infrastructure, and extend the grazing season as long as possible also.

I suppose the question that I'm asking, are people who go with one big 1st cut that goes into their pits always going to be sacrificing overall grass yields, due to variable grass growth/weather etc? (Ie one big 1st cut is effectively trying to farm by calendar, and you could end up making big sacrifices with either out of control paddocks, or too little grass for the cows later on in the summer with changes in weather.). Where is the balance point between this and the hassle of bales for the average 100cow diary herd, or is that something that is too individual to each farm?

going all bales for a 100 cow dairy herd when you have the pits in place seems madness to me, where these built recenly and if so are you still paying for them. your talking about 1000 bales a year thats a lot of wrapping. I'm all for good grassland management but if you had a summer like 2012 you'd be glad to have a big pit. I'd still be in favor of using a mix of both. The bales are brillantly flexible but expensive when it comes to large numbers.

yellow50HX

Timmaay wrote: »

We feed the bales to the cows in the early winter when they are only in 1/2 the time, its a pain in the arse to be honest, bales/feeding passage/slatted tank don't good together, Last winter I had get fun mixing up the slurry, there was too much long bale silage dragged into it. We just opened the pit last week, usual 1st few ft weren't great quaility, but now that the cows are getting the better silage in the middle of the pit, they seem much happier and have it all ate, whereas there would always be waste after bales.

are the bales chopped? chopped bales are less like to be striny and dragged into the tank, suprised your getting a lot of waste compared the pit. I'd be having a word with the lad baling and wrapping.

Tipp Man

We are all bales for the last few years

For first cut it is almost definately more expensive than pit, but for second it is probably as cheap or cheaper

There are many advantages to bales we believe - think they are all listed already

Timmaay

Sorry, I didn't make that too clear, no definitely no plans to reduce the pit silage, how to manage expansion in the future is more what I'm wondering about, more bales or build/upgrade one of the pits. I haven't tried chopped bales myself, my dad said he didn't like them when he got afew made, they fell apart while handling which made taking the netting off too much hassle! Maybe we aren't wrapping the bales correctly also, we have used different balers but always the same chap wrapping!

Tipp Man

yellow50HX wrote: »

are the bales chopped? chopped bales are less like to be striny and dragged into the tank, suprised your getting a lot of waste compared the pit. I'd be having a word with the lad baling and wrapping.

Surprised also

Our waste has dramtically fallen since going all bales

yellow50HX

Timmaay wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't make that too clear, no definitely no plans to reduce the pit silage, how to manage expansion in the future is more what I'm wondering about, more bales or build/upgrade one of the pits. I haven't tried chopped bales myself, my dad said he didn't like them when he got afew made, they fell apart while handling which made taking the netting off too much hassle! Maybe we aren't wrapping the bales correctly also, we have used different balers but always the same chap wrapping!

with the chopped bales your proabably not get in far enough to hold the bale. we had a similar issue but fitted a longer spike and that holds the bale better when taking off the netting. bale does far on to the ground as we take off the netting now.

mf240

Tipp Man wrote: »

Surprised also

Our waste has dramtically fallen since going all bales

+1 on this

Chop the bales they wont pull in any. Leave the bale on its end then open plastic down sides and lift the bale out and place on its end where it will be used then remove net. Tell contractor to put on enough net.
Timmay why not continue to put your biggest cut into the pit and then wrap the rest. Very hard to justify spending on concrete for light second cuts.

ford bo

When the bales are chopped it is easier to pike forward up to the heads of the cattle if you have that systen rather than trying to break up a bale that has not been chopped and you need to shake the bale up and down with the loader to break up the bale so chopped bales are better in those case they break up into small layer stop arted feeding last years calves with the bales they love them in a circular feeder I can't keep it up to them that the problem....

Farmer Pudsey

In general when one takes into account fixed costs, waste, flexibility, etc when dealing with quanties of 3-400 bales there is no significant difference in cost between baled silage and pit, provides there is not a long draw involved. If anything if dealing with quality silage bales probally shade it. Even above that farmers with large area's who want to use bales it is economic to have some of there own equipment to do it.