Shooting mechanics/gunplay/gunfeel.

Azza

Interesting article over at Edge Magazines online site about gunfeel.

http://www.edge-online.com/features/the-edge-explay-panel-gunfeel/

The part about Wolfenstein Enemy Territoy is interesting. Each side had a sub machine gun, and one side supposedly had a superior gun. But aside from the audio being the only diffierence the stats on the gun where identical. Yet the gun with the reputation as being superior had infact better kill stats and it had a sort of placebo effect on players using it.

Gunfeel is something thats very important to me when it comes to enjoying shooting games and its also very instincitive and difficult to describe.

I prefer my weapons to have audio punch. If a gun sounds weak, I simply won't enjoy it that much even if its perfectly well balanced gun.

My ideal gun will also have recoil both in terms of the players gun and the effect it has on the player/A.I its hitting. Rag doll pyshics play a huge part in this. My all time favourite weapon in a game is the Kar 98 in Day of Defeat Source. Very satisfying to use.

Input lag is obviously a big factor that difficult to measure.
Frame rate is quite easy to feel but its not always obvious thats whats making it better. But as ID say random play testers say the same thing. They don't know why a game feels better it just does (they players test a game at 30 fps and then at 60fps without telling them what the difference between them was).

When taking damage I prefer not to be rooted to the spot unable to move, a movement handicap plenty for sure but something like 25-50% not a 95% movement penalty where I have no chance of getting to close cover or even turning and return the fire. Not realistic but its just what I prefer. Screen shake when getting hit is frustrating as well but I understand its purpose, but I actually like its implementation in Red Orchestra 2 where shooting close to your opponent causes a screen shake effect that makes return fire more inaccurate allowing for a supression effect that can be used to cover advancing team mates.

Obviously there is other factors in single player games. A.I, level design, cover mechanics. Obviously if the A.I is doing little more than standing around and getting shot the game gets old quickly even with satifying guns. Obviously the more life like they are the better. You want them to take cover and use smart tactics. Fall back when they are taking damage or outnumber etc.

But at the same time I dislike the hollywood style of many enemys in games. Instead of running for cover, they have to do a roll or some other silly animation. Its a sort of like the developers saying "hey look at how smart our A.I is".

Cover systems I'm indifferent to. Generally I don't mind them but they tend to have a sticky effect when trying to leave cover that I dislike or a delay effect when going into cover. I prefer the more natural option of staying in a first person perspective and manually crouching, straffing or using a lean option. I also dislike FPS games switching to 3rd person in cover. Quite often visually you are not in completely in cover but yet the A.I can't hit you.

What do you guys like when it comes to gunplay?

SeantheMan

The Kar98 and BAR in Mohaa were amazing.
BF2 came along with the .50cal , which was also mental and the noise completely made it feel powerful.

I agree with you though, the sound adds completely to the sound of the gun and makes you feel a certain way

I find this especially with regards to SMGs , they sound like pellet guns.

The new CODs and MOH etc just have too much of a selection, where you can equip different stocks/silencers/scopes etc that it detracts from any "real" feel for the guns.

BostonB

A lot are over powerful where a small SMG can be fitted with a scope and is acurate at unrealistic distance and with too high penetrating ability. Whereas a more powerful rifle is inaccurate and can't penetrate at the same distance. COD 4 is especially bad for that.

krudler

I like when guns sound meaty as well, Gears of War has some good chunky sounding guns, you alway feel as if you're actually hitting targets with the lancer. in COD any of the Infinity Ward games have excellent sound effects, Blops on the other hand sounded like pea shooters even without silencers. my favourite sounding gun from the COd games is the RPD, it definitely feels more meaty than some of the other guns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esj0jULQdeM

or the ACR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN7E_ALTmIg

Chairman Meow

Killing Floor knocks it out of the park for its weapon feel/sounds. It's pretty much the best shooting mechanics of any FPS ive ever played. The shotguns in particular are absolute beasts, the AA12 shotgun and the Hunting shotgun are so powerful feeling.

Burgo

Just in relation to this in particular

The part about Wolfenstein Enemy Territoy is interesting. Each side had a sub machine gun, and one side supposedly had a superior gun. But aside from the audio being the only diffierence the stats on the gun where identical. Yet the gun with the reputation as being superior had infact better kill stats and it had a sort of placebo effect on players using it.

It was the same in day of defeat source, both the sub machine guns (mp40 and thompson) had identical clip size, reload time and bullet spread, yet the thompson was universally preferred as it apparently shot faster(it only sounded like it did )

TPD

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Killing Floor knocks it out of the park for its weapon feel/sounds. It's pretty much the best shooting mechanics of any FPS ive ever played. The shotguns in particular are absolute beasts, the AA12 shotgun and the Hunting shotgun are so powerful feeling.

Was just going to say, the Lever Action Rifle in Killing Floor is easily the most satisfying game-gun I've ever fired.

dreamers75

G3 in BF2, in my head it was clearly the most accurate Assault Rifle and it looked cooler than the others.

Even tho it only held 20 bullets i used it almost all of the time.

cherryghost

Agreed with Killing Floor. I personally think they're top of the pile with regards to gun feel and mechanics. I haven't come across a game that gives a deep sense of satisfaction when you fire a few rounds off.

Call of Duty 1/2 and MOHAA have notable mentions to the semi-auto rifle guns. The power you feel using them, knowing that you have to have 100% accuracy to pull something off gives you a drive and a sense of satisfaction that I haven't felt in any new MOH game, nor the COD games, hell even the BF games.

Also, I think CS:GO raised the bar a bit compared to CSS, guns mechanics and feel seem a lot more rounded off compared to CSS and 1.6, imo.

Retr0gamer

Gun feel is very important for me. Games like Doom 3, the weedy sounding guns contributed a lot to me not enjoying the game. The same with Resistance, guns sounded weedy, enemies took too many hits and didn't react to being hit until they died. That really spoiled that game for me, although there was plenty of other things wrong with it.

A game that got it right for me was Hal-Life. The AI took a lot of hits but the gore and 'thud' effect were excellent and the AI changed states when damaged, limping and leaving a blood trail and even leaving grenades behind as they retreat.

Halo games for me are good exmaple of how gun feel can affect me. Energy weapons are far better at getting rid of shields and are important in higher difficulty levels, however I end up using the human projectile weapons more because they feel better, the energy weapon's feel just isn't as satisfying.

Spear

There's a counter example to this though. In BF:BC2 the M1 Garand and M14 had the same stats, bar the M14 having more ammo. Yet while I could do some terrible things to the enemy with the M1, the M14 was still lacking in comparison. The 3D model, and the sights on it did impact the usability, something others also complained of.

Azza

I thought the sound effects in the original version of Doom 3 was fine. It was more the lack of recoil and lack of hit reaction that was disappointing, the shotgun felt incredible weak at anything but point blank range.

gizmo

And now I want to go back and play Project I.G.I. Both it and its sequel had some of the finest gun audio I've heard in a game. If memory serves me correctly Innerloop were one of the first studios to go out and record actual gun sounds at a firing range for use in the game and it sure as hell showed. Even the bog standard Glock felt fantastic to shoot nevermind the oomph from the more powerful weapons.

Certainly agree on the Doom 3 appraisal. Recently blasted through Doom 2 and even now both the normal and double barrelled shotguns are amazingly satisfying to fire.

penev10

Bullet sponge enemies are the real immersion-killer for me. If a gun like the P90 SMG which is designed for low recoil etc. feels "weedy" I chalk it down to being the way it's supposed to be (in relative terms). I just hate having to put endless bullets into enemies that don't even flinch and then just drop dead when the magic number is hit.

Cravez

Definitely notice a difference with a weapon I enjoy using. I used to get weapon reskins and sounds (sometimes new animations) in Counter Strike Source and id play alot better with them even though the weapon stats were the same as the vanilla skin.

Totally agreed on Killing Floor, very easily the best game out at the moment that handles weapons in terms of their handling, sounds and power.

Overheal

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Gun feel is very important for me. Games like Doom 3, the weedy sounding guns contributed a lot to me not enjoying the game. The same with Resistance, guns sounded weedy, enemies took too many hits and didn't react to being hit until they died. That really spoiled that game for me, although there was plenty of other things wrong with it.

A game that got it right for me was Hal-Life. The AI took a lot of hits but the gore and 'thud' effect were excellent and the AI changed states when damaged, limping and leaving a blood trail and even leaving grenades behind as they retreat.

Halo games for me are good exmaple of how gun feel can affect me. Energy weapons are far better at getting rid of shields and are important in higher difficulty levels, however I end up using the human projectile weapons more because they feel better, the energy weapon's feel just isn't as satisfying.

twin plasma actually makes the last level or two of halo 3 survivable. and needlers are just fun.

BostonB

+1 on HL1 . The MP5 when you encounter the marines for the first time was awesome.

ScumLord

I've never put too much thought into the sound and feel of guns, what really ruins the illusion for me though is pumping some guy full of bullets and he continues to run around as if you where throwing balled up paper at him.

Retr0gamer

Overheal wrote: »

twin plasma actually makes the last level or two of halo 3 survivable. and needlers are just fun.

Yeah but the it doesn't make the plasmas anymore fun to use.

As for the needler, outside of pumping an unfortunate grunt with a metric tonne of needles I didn't find it fun or useful to use.