Secretary in a legal office.

CuriousG

I would really like to get into this area, admin work in a legal environment of some sort. Obviously there are next to no jobs, and I have searched job bridge to no avail also.

I was wondering, will it look downright silly to write on spec to some legal offices and ask if they would be interested in taking on an intern with no quals or experience? Do you have to have qualifications for a job like this, or is it just equivalent to any other secretarial work?

I have applied for a lot of internships based on admin work, as I would really like to get into that area, but none of them are legally based.

I don't want to look like a fool, has anyone got some useful advice please?

Thanks in advance.

Procrastastudy

CuriousG wrote: »

I would really like to get into this area, admin work in a legal environment of some sort. Obviously there are next to no jobs, and I have searched job bridge to no avail also.

I was wondering, will it look downright silly to write on spec to some legal offices and ask if they would be interested in taking on an intern with no quals or experience? Do you have to have qualifications for a job like this, or is it just equivalent to any other secretarial work?

I have applied for a lot of internships based on admin work, as I would really like to get into that area, but none of them are legally based.

I don't want to look like a fool, has anyone got some useful advice please?

Thanks in advance.

Getting anything legal is a nightmare. I know 4th Trinners students that would sell their granny to make the tea in a big firm. You might want to try your hand at something like the ILEX course at GCD - and then try approaching solicitors firms. Another option might be to try and get some other sort of office work but again they have almost fully qualified interns coming out of their ears I'm afraid.

Target smaller firms - perhaps offer to work for free. EDIT - sorry reread your OP - No writing on spec is what they expect. Legal secretary is a very skilled job however.

Note: GCD student here myself and there are several 1 year courses available from a number of different places.

CuriousG

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Getting anything legal is a nightmare. I know 4th Trinners students that would sell their granny to make the tea in a big firm. You might want to try your hand at something like the ILEX course at GCD - and then try approaching solicitors firms. Another option might be to try and get some other sort of office work but again they have almost fully qualified interns coming out of their ears I'm afraid.

Target smaller firms - perhaps offer to work for free.

Oh sorry, maybe I was unclear, I meant approaching them to ask for unpaid work or maybe job-bridge. I know paid work is a no go COMPLETELY

My question is, would I look like a fool if I just approached them, explained this, and offered to work for free? It's the only realistic way to get my foot in the door, I think. I would like to go to college but that most definitely isn't happening in at last the next year, and I was also looking into FAS night courses for computers or something, but none at the moment either.

Thanks for the advice, I would actually be happy for admin work anywhere (unpaid or otherwise) as I think it is something I would really suit.

Procrastastudy

CuriousG wrote: »

Oh sorry, maybe I was unclear, I meant approaching them to ask for unpaid work or maybe job-bridge. I know paid work is a no go COMPLETELY

My question is, would I look like a fool if I just approached them, explained this, and offered to work for free? It's the only realistic way to get my foot in the door, I think. I would like to go to college but that most definitely isn't happening in at last the next year, and I was also looking into FAS night courses for computers or something, but none at the moment either.

Thanks for the advice, I would actually be happy for admin work anywhere (unpaid or otherwise) as I think it is something I would really suit.

No it wouldn't be silly at all. It'll be a massive uphill battle and get ready for a lot of rejection. Explain your situation and see what happens. The issue you have is you're competing with every law student with half a brain that wants to practise look for the same thing. That said you might just come across a solicitor that doesnt want a Law student bugging them every five minutes and wants someone to just do the job (for free!). As I say target the smaller firms. Dublin Quays is ideal as is anywhere around the CCJ (Parkgate Street) or the Four Courts.

Get yourself along to the Four Courts and CCJ and sit in on a case or two. Approach the various colleges and unis and find out what scholarships and funding is available. I wish you nothing but the best of luck. The best move I ever made was to start studying law.

Be warned - there are very few jobs out there and the ones that are there are tough. That said its rewarding work imho.

CuriousG

Procrastastudy wrote: »

No it wouldn't be silly at all. It'll be a massive uphill battle and get ready for a lot of rejection. Explain your situation and see what happens. The issue you have is you're competing with every law student with half a brain that wants to practise look for the same thing. That said you might just come across a solicitor that doesnt want a Law student bugging them every five minutes and wants someone to just do the job (for free!). As I say target the smaller firms. Dublin Quays is ideal as is anywhere around the CCJ (Parkgate Street) or the Four Courts.

Get yourself along to the Four Courts and CCJ and sit in on a case or two. Approach the various colleges and unis and find out what scholarships and funding is available. I wish you nothing but the best of luck. The best move I ever made was to start studying law.

Be warned - there are very few jobs out there and the ones that are there are tough. That said its rewarding work imho.

Thanks a million!! I understand it was hard, maybe I came across that I thought it would be as simple as, I really do not think that and expect rejection, but nothing wrong with trying also!

I am in Waterford, so Dublin is not practical at all, but thanks very much for the suggestions.

As I said, I have no problem with admin work in any area, so I may well try going for that at the same time, there may be more chance, then again maybe not. Only one way to find out. Thank you

djk1000

Do a secretarial course, get your typing and dictation speeds up. When you're applying to places make sure that your cv and cover letter are perfect. See if there are any part time legal secretarial courses you could do.

Legal secretaries are quite specialised and any qualifications will help. You might be better placed to get work experience if you're working towards a qualification, or have one already.

CuriousG

djk1000 wrote: »

Do a secretarial course, get your typing and dictation speeds up. When you're applying to places make sure that your cv and cover letter are perfect. See if there are any part time legal secretarial courses you could do.

Legal secretaries are quite specialised and any qualifications will help. You might be better placed to get work experience if you're working towards a qualification, or have one already.

Thank you.

Procrastastudy

CuriousG wrote: »

Thanks a million!! I understand it was hard, maybe I came across that I thought it would be as simple as, I really do not think that and expect rejection, but nothing wrong with trying also!

I am in Waterford, so Dublin is not practical at all, but thanks very much for the suggestions.

As I said, I have no problem with admin work in any area, so I may well try going for that at the same time, there may be more chance, then again maybe not. Only one way to find out. Thank you

Don't leave any stone unturned - literally approach every solicitors firm you can get to. Although I personally think they are the spawn of Satan you could try approaching the HR dept of a various big companies (non-legal) as they do quasi-legal / quasi-sadistic work.

Another idea is to find companies with in-house counsel (lawyers that are employed by a big non-legal firm e.g. a mobile phone compnay) and offer to work for them. I could see them jumping at that for the ego trip alone!

CuriousG

Ignoring the legal aspect for a second, and just to focus on any admin/office/secretarial work AT ALL in any area, what are the opinions on the following? Good, bad, or just plain stupid?
I just feel a little silly, and I don't want to be laughed at although if that happens, it happens.

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to enquire about any vacancies in your company at present. I am very eager to gain some experience in Administration Assistant/Secretarial Work. While I do not have experience in this area at present, I would be willing to undertake an internship (http://www.jobbridge.ie/Employer.aspx) if you were in a position to offer such an opportunity. I gained an ECDL certificate some years ago, and I have a good knowledge of Microsoft Office and how to use a computer in general. I consider myself to have efficient typing skills and I have tested my WPM to be 67 words per minute.

I am a dependable person who works hard and pays attention to detail. I'm very efficient, quick to pick up new skills and eager to learn from others. I'm keen to work to the best of my ability and demonstrate these skills, and also use them to learn as many new skills as possible. I definitely attest that my personal skills make up for what may seem like lack of experience in comparison to others, and I would love to gain an opportunity to put that into practice.

I have reliable references on request and would be delighted to discuss the above at your convenience. In the case you do not have any suitable opportunities at the moment, I would be very grateful if you would keep my resume on file for any future possibilities.

Yours sincerely,
CuriousG

Sorry if this is all silly, I'm not so good at cover letters or specs, it is my huge downfall, in my opinion.

Procrastastudy

Personalise it (address it to a person) add a bit more detail on why that company and for the legal ones add it bit about why you want to start a career in Law.

That's just my 2 cents. Follow up the letters with a phone call and even drop in.

Also I wouldn't be down on a cover letter like that its very good - you are clearly well educated and intelligent and can string a sentence together - puts you streets ahead of the average undergrad!

CuriousG

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Personalise it (address it to a person) add a bit more detail on why that company and for the legal ones add it bit about why you want to start a career in Law.

That's just my 2 cents. Follow up the letters with a phone call and even drop in.

Also I wouldn't be down on a cover letter like that its very good - you are clearly well educated and intelligent and can string a sentence together - puts you streets ahead of the average undergrad!

Yeah, I definitely will, I just wanted to keep it impersonal for boards purposes

Thank you so much, you have been a great help. I appreciate that.

mikemac1

That's a good cover letter

CuriousG

mikemac1 wrote: »

That's a good cover letter

Thank you very much!

Remmy

Hey op, I don't know where you are based but there is a legal secretary position in Laois advertised on jobs.ie now. Just incase you didn't know.

finnegan101

Also, people often overlook big companies that have legal departments, alot of insurance and financial companies have legal departments,, that might not have been hit with as many requests.... and depending where you are based, smaller out of town solicitors..
Worth also giving your details to an agency that deal in legal secs etc... they may come across something for you..
and as remmy mentioned, try applying for paid positions that come up too.... it may be that if your prepared to work on trial run for a month they may give you a position...
best of luck with it..

CuriousG

Thanks all, I am nowhere near Laois but I appreciate the thought

repsol

Hi CuriousG

I wouldn't worry about looking stupid.You should be commended for your eagerness to get a job and the fact that you are prepared to work for free speaks volumes about you.The problem with the legal profession in Ireland is its all about who you know etc.You should offer your services to some of the free legal advice places.Also try local authorities ,DAA etc who all have legal depts.Someone will be glad to have you in their firm.Good luck;)

tatli_lokma

CuriousG,

while your cover letter is ok, the third line of your letter jumps out - i.e the line that points out that you don't have any experience. If that came into my office I would stop reading at that point.

Instead, just leave that part out, and just start the sentence "I would be willing to undertake an internship......"

Also, be more definite in your claims - don't say "I consider myself to be.....", if you can type at 67 WPM then just say that. I don't care what you think of yourself, what I care about are the skills you can prove.

If it were me I would be much more confident - your letter is almost apologetic. Despite you claiming you have no experience, some of your skills say otherwise, such as your wpm for example. So focus on those items, not on the fact you have less experience - its all about spin.

Also, as someone who reads a lot of CVs my preference in a cover letter is for it to be succinct, to the point and if suitable use bullet points. So a two or three line intro paragraph saying what position you are looking for, what your relevant backgound/ experience is. Then next paragraph say "I am proficient in the following areas" and then bullet point the items. Finally a brief closing paragraph thanking the reader for their time and consideration and hoping to hear from them.

The reason I favour this format is is for several reasons - firstly, I can see clearly and at a glance your skills and abilities. If someone regularly gets a lot of CVs or is very busy they will scan the CV and cover letter, so anything that makes it clear what your skills are is great. Secondly it shows me that you can format a letter - if you are looking for admin work this is really important. Personally, if I receive a word format of a CV, I put in my little show/hide icon and check if they used tabs correctly to format the CV or if they used spaces. If they used spaces and are looking for an admin job they don't get an interview. Likewise, formatting has to be of a good quality and consistent throughout. And spelling errors and not proof reading it is another black mark against you.

So my suggestion for your cover letter would be

Dear (Insert name here - if you personalise it, it makes a better impact),

I am writing to enquire about any vacancies in your company at present. I am very eager to develop my experience in the area of Administrative/Secretarial Work. In order to further develop my skill set I would be willing to undertake a full or part time position, or an internship or other form of trainee programme if you were in a position to offer such an opportunity. (Take out the link to the job bridge info - its a bit patronising IMO).

I have existing skills which I feel will be beneficial to your organisation such as:

• ECDL certificate
• knowledge of email and internet packages (list them here - if you don't know them, go on line and learn about them. Internet explorer, Firefox, Opera, Lotus notes, outlook etc etc)
• Proficient in various computer packages including MS Office (then specify what areas of MS Office you know - there are a lot of elements to MS Office so if you know more than word and excel, say it. If you know Words REALLY well, say it, if you know Excel and how to use formulae say it! If you know any other packages mention them - adobe reader (or even better publisher or editor). Use free online tools to get a basic understanding of as many packages and operating systems as you can).
• Excellent typing skills - 67 WPM
• Dependable, reliable and hard working
• Highly motivated and enthusiastic
• Excellent attention to detail (if you say this you need to be 1000% sure there is not one single error in your CV!)
• Efficient and able to work to deadlines and targets
• Quick learner, who relishes the opportunity to acquire new skills
• Able to work well both independently and as part of a team
• Good communication and interpersonal skills

I have reliable references on request and would be delighted to discuss the above at your convenience. In the case you do not have any suitable opportunities at the moment, I would be very grateful if you would keep my resume on file for any future possibilities.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my application.

Yours sincerely,
CuriousG

Edit to add - what about also approching your local citizens information or any other 'charity' type organisation and seeing if they would be willing to give you a few hours a week doing admin or even just to hang around and see how things are done so that you can get a feel for how admin works and if you got something in citizens info you would gain useful practical knowledge regarding basic legal info. Look on some of the volunteering sites - my first 'proper' admin job was working for a charity. I volunteered 3 hours twice a week and would do filing and photocopying, a bit of typing etc. It gave me practical experience with not much pressure and at thend of it I had a good reference. So maybe a charity linked to the law would be good - like the Penal reform trust or one of the civil liberties groups or immigrant rights charities??

CuriousG

repsol wrote: »

Hi CuriousG

I wouldn't worry about looking stupid.You should be commended for your eagerness to get a job and the fact that you are prepared to work for free speaks volumes about you.The problem with the legal profession in Ireland is its all about who you know etc.You should offer your services to some of the free legal advice places.Also try local authorities ,DAA etc who all have legal depts.Someone will be glad to have you in their firm.Good luck;)

Once again, good advice, and you have all made me feel like less of a fool, so thank you for that! haha

CuriousG

Hi all,

Just thought I'd keep you all updated.

I am starting a position (unpaid but oh well.....) in an Estate Agents as a secretary this coming Monday.

It isn't my ideal job, but I see it as giving me a little experience to use to get where I want in the future.

While doing this, I am hoping (if saving goes ok) to start a night course in Legal Studies in the New Year, so I am definitely on some sort of track.

Would like to thank all for the advice, you all helped a lot.

repsol

Best of luck with that.If you do your best you never know what might happen.

Procrastastudy

Many congrats! If property law is something that might float your boat an estate agents might is not a bad idea. There is a possibility that conveyancing might get moved out of the solicitors remit and into specialists if the legal services bill has its way. If there is a module on Land Law or Conveyancing I'd pick it if you can.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

CuriousG

Little Ted wrote: »

CuriousG,

while your cover letter is ok, the third line of your letter jumps out - i.e the line that points out that you don't have any experience. If that came into my office I would stop reading at that point.

Instead, just leave that part out, and just start the sentence "I would be willing to undertake an internship......"

Also, be more definite in your claims - don't say "I consider myself to be.....", if you can type at 67 WPM then just say that. I don't care what you think of yourself, what I care about are the skills you can prove.

If it were me I would be much more confident - your letter is almost apologetic. Despite you claiming you have no experience, some of your skills say otherwise, such as your wpm for example. So focus on those items, not on the fact you have less experience - its all about spin.

Also, as someone who reads a lot of CVs my preference in a cover letter is for it to be succinct, to the point and if suitable use bullet points. So a two or three line intro paragraph saying what position you are looking for, what your relevant backgound/ experience is. Then next paragraph say "I am proficient in the following areas" and then bullet point the items. Finally a brief closing paragraph thanking the reader for their time and consideration and hoping to hear from them.

The reason I favour this format is is for several reasons - firstly, I can see clearly and at a glance your skills and abilities. If someone regularly gets a lot of CVs or is very busy they will scan the CV and cover letter, so anything that makes it clear what your skills are is great. Secondly it shows me that you can format a letter - if you are looking for admin work this is really important. Personally, if I receive a word format of a CV, I put in my little show/hide icon and check if they used tabs correctly to format the CV or if they used spaces. If they used spaces and are looking for an admin job they don't get an interview. Likewise, formatting has to be of a good quality and consistent throughout. And spelling errors and not proof reading it is another black mark against you.

So my suggestion for your cover letter would be


Edit to add - what about also approching your local citizens information or any other 'charity' type organisation and seeing if they would be willing to give you a few hours a week doing admin or even just to hang around and see how things are done so that you can get a feel for how admin works and if you got something in citizens info you would gain useful practical knowledge regarding basic legal info. Look on some of the volunteering sites - my first 'proper' admin job was working for a charity. I volunteered 3 hours twice a week and would do filing and photocopying, a bit of typing etc. It gave me practical experience with not much pressure and at thend of it I had a good reference. So maybe a charity linked to the law would be good - like the Penal reform trust or one of the civil liberties groups or immigrant rights charities??

I just seen this, amazing advice that I am keeping in mind for the future! Thank you!

And thanks all, will do!