Brown Rats

Half-cocked

I left a trail camera out last week to monitor pheasants coming to a feeder, instead I ended up with over 2,000 photos of rats!



I realize that rats are a pest and carry all sorts of unpleasant diseases but I am fascinated by them. They are the least recorded mammal species on the National Biodiversity Database because people don't bother reporting sightings. I was really surprised a while back to see no records of them being present in the 10km square in which I live - Baldoyle/Sutton! What are other peoples views on them?

gifted

destroy every one of them...yuuuukkkk

Half-cocked

gifted wrote: »

destroy every one of them...yuuuukkkk

Sadly I have had to take steps. The farmer was less than pleased when I showed him the photos. I don't like poisoning but I'm afraid this time it is necessary. There are simply too many to trap. I've taken every precaution to make sure nothing else can get at the poison but secondary poisoning is a real worry.

magicbastarder

how much are they predated upon by raptors? and how important a part in the diet of raptors would they be?

gifted

gifted wrote: »

destroy every one of them...yuuuukkkk

It's a nature forum rats are part of that. They're food for a lot of things aswell. Everything serves a purpose

Biodegradable Bellend

What's the problem? They're in woodland not indoors. Those rats are on the menu for a lot of creatures, buzzards, barn owls, stoats, foxes. If captive reared pheasants are being held in the area by feeding them, there lies the problem. A good solution would be to stop feeding the pheasants and the rats will disperse. I wouldn't worry too much about secondary poisoning of raptors though, they'll be shot long before they ingest enough poison.

Half-cocked

Biodegradable Bellend wrote: »

I wouldn't worry too much about secondary poisoning of raptors though, they'll be shot long before they ingest enough poison.

No way. We have a family of 4 Buzzards, the parents are resident all year round and have been there for years. We also have kestrels, sparrowhawks and 1 record of a short-eared owl. No one harms them and if anyone did they'd be thrown off the shoot and reported to the NPWS/Gardai. We have over 70 species of birds recorded on the shoot and the game crops we plant support many species other than the pheasants, like huge mixed winter flocks of finches (including Yellowhammers, Goldfinches, Linnets, Redpolls, Greenfinches etc). There are other many benefits to wildlife from the shoot. For example the duck ponds we dug now have nesting moorhens and little grebes and are used as roosts by common sandpipers. Unfortunately our reluctance to use poison has resulted in a rat infestation which needs to be dealt with at the behest of the landowner. Secondary poisoning is a real worry.

Biodegradable Bellend

Half-cocked wrote: »

No way. We have a family of 4 Buzzards, the parents are resident all year round and have been there for years. We also have kestrels, sparrowhawks and 1 record of a short-eared owl. No one harms them and if anyone did they'd be thrown off the shoot and reported to the NPWS/Gardai. We have over 70 species of birds recorded on the shoot and the game crops we plant support many species other than the pheasants, like huge mixed winter flocks of finches (including Yellowhammers, Goldfinches, Linnets, Redpolls, Greenfinches etc). There are other many benefits to wildlife from the shoot. For example the duck ponds we dug now have nesting moorhens and little grebes and are used as roosts by common sandpipers. Unfortunately our reluctance to use poison has resulted in a rat infestation which needs to be dealt with at the behest of the landowner. Secondary poisoning is a real worry.

That was just a cheap shot on my part, just that I get annoyed when people use poisons, even on rats. I think rats in woodland are fine, they're just concentrated because of the availability of easy food. If you just let them be they'll disperse when the food supply runs out.

I know a majority of people hate rats, and with all the bad press they've had it's not surprising. I like them, doesn't mean I want them in my house though.

Half-cocked

Biodegradable Bellend wrote: »

I know a majority of people hate rats, and with all the bad press they've had it's not surprising. I like them, doesn't mean I want them in my house though.

If the farmer hadn't demanded I deal with them, I'd be happy enough to leave them be. I kinda like them too. They are very intellignet. A few precautions like wearing gloves while filling the pheasant feeders and they won't do me any harm.

What is surprizing with so many of them around, I haven't seen (or smelt) any signs of foxes. I would have thought a pheasant feeder with round the clock rat activity would be a dead cert for foxes.

Biodegradable Bellend

Half-cocked wrote: »

If the farmer hadn't demanded I deal with them, I'd be happy enough to leave them be. I kinda like them too. They are very intellignet. A few precautions like wearing gloves while filling the pheasant feeders and they won't do me any harm.

What is surprizing with so many of them around, I haven't seen (or smelt) any signs of foxes. I would have thought a pheasant feeder with round the clock rat activity would be a dead cert for foxes.

Probably points to the efficiency of your gun club when it comes to controlling fox numbers. I've heard rat numbers were up in a couple of my local gun club areas (I'm no longer a shooter, gone soft) after concentrated efforts against foxes (lamping etc.), however now that the Celtic Tiger is dead there's less disposable income for fuel and .220 rounds, maybe fox numbers will grow again and rats will decline. It's a bit of a turnaround in their numbers though, I remember the numbers plummeted along our local rivers and surrounding areas after mink took hold.

magicbastarder

i wonder how well a bounty on mink would go?
there was a landowner in the UK offering a bounty on grey squirrels a few years back.
i'd be worried there'd be too many people caught a sniff of 'easy money' and went after the mink, without spending the time learning the difference between a mink and a pine marten.

cameramonkey

Half-cocked wrote: »

I left a trail camera out last week to monitor pheasants coming to a feeder, instead I ended up with over 2,000 photos of rats!



I realize that rats are a pest and carry all sorts of unpleasant diseases but I am fascinated by them. They are the least recorded mammal species on the National Biodiversity Database because people don't bother reporting sightings. I was really surprised a while back to see no records of them being present in the 10km square in which I live - Baldoyle/Sutton! What are other peoples views on them?

is that one shot or a photshop composite?

Half-cocked

Biodegradable Bellend wrote: »

Probably points to the efficiency of your gun club when it comes to controlling fox numbers.

We've shot 2 foxes in the last 2 years. One was half dead from advanced mange so it was a mercy killing, the other had developed a taste for the landlords guinea fowl. I really can't explain the lack of foxes in the area. Possibly neighbours are hammering them.

Half-cocked

cameramonkey wrote: »

is that one shot or a photshop composite?

One shot! Scary stuff indeed.

Half-cocked

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'd be worried there'd be too many people caught a sniff of 'easy money' and went after the mink, without spending the time learning the difference between a mink and a pine marten.

Or left traps all around the place and caught other species. I had a mink problem and set live traps, checked daily. Caught the mink, but also hedgehogs. I've heard of otters being caught too. Not a problem if they are being quickly released from live traps, but what happens when people start leaving fenn traps all over the place looking for a bounty? Mink rafts are really the only way to single out mink, but these take time to build and could be harvested or stolen by other bounty hunters as they are highly visible. I think anything that encourages a proliferation of trapping is a bad idea.

Birdnuts

I'd be concerned about secondary poisoning too - I think warfarin would be the safest to use against the rats in this case if other options don't work. Have you tried traps, terriers or air guns etc. HC??

Half-cocked

Birdnuts wrote: »

I'd be concerned about secondary poisoning too - I think warfarin would be the safest to use against the rats in this case if other options don't work. Have you tried traps, terriers or air guns etc. HC??

Tried a Jack Russell, he just stared at them. Trapped a few, but there are too many, you'd have to be resetting the traps every hour. I don't have an airgun and my rifle is €1.20 per shot, so thats not an option;) Some one suggested dropping bangers down the borrows, said the shock waves would kill them but I think he just likes making noise.

Kess73

My tuppence worth is that for as long as there is a readily available food source in that location you will have a large population of rats using it.


You may kill off rats in large numbers, but the remaining population will continue to breed and replenish the numbers again.

The only real solution is to either remove the food source to encourage the rats to disperse or find a feeding method for the pheasants that the rats simply cannot get to.


Secondary poisoning is almost a definite if you continue to set poison. Out of curiousity how long has the pheasant feeder been in place? I ask because predators would take a lot longer to regard the area as a prey rich zone than the rats would take to regard it as a feeding area. Nature if left alone is pretty good at establishing it's own balance when it comes to native species. If the rats keep coming to that spot, it will eventually become a draw to whatever is in the area that wants to eat the rats.

cameramonkey

Half-cocked wrote: »

One shot! Scary stuff indeed.

that is a lot of rats.

Birdnuts

Half-cocked wrote: »

Tried a Jack Russell, he just stared at them. Trapped a few, but there are too many, you'd have to be resetting the traps every hour. I don't have an airgun and my rifle is €1.20 per shot, so thats not an option;) Some one suggested dropping bangers down the borrows, said the shock waves would kill them but I think he just likes making noise.

If you can locate their runs/burrows then ferrets/nets might be an option??

Half-cocked

Kess73 wrote: »

My tuppence worth is that for as long as there is a readily available food source in that location you will have a large population of rats using it.


You may kill off rats in large numbers, but the remaining population will continue to breed and replenish the numbers again.

The only real solution is to either remove the food source to encourage the rats to disperse or find a feeding method for the pheasants that the rats simply cannot get to.


Secondary poisoning is almost a definite if you continue to set poison. Out of curiousity how long has the pheasant feeder been in place? I ask because predators would take a lot longer to regard the area as a prey rich zone than the rats would take to regard it as a feeding area. Nature if left alone is pretty good at establishing it's own balance when it comes to native species. If the rats keep coming to that spot, it will eventually become a draw to whatever is in the area that wants to eat the rats.

The feeder has been in situ since August. I think you're right, I will move it to a new location. There are other feeders that aren't attracting rats so the pheasants won't go hungry.

OpenYourEyes

Might be worth asking the NPWS or John Lusby (Raptor Conservation Officer for Birdwatch Ireland) as to what the best poison might be to minimise the impact of secondary poisioning?

recedite

Half-cocked wrote: »

the duck ponds we dug now have nesting moorhens and little grebes and are used as roosts by common sandpipers. Unfortunately our reluctance to use poison has resulted in a rat infestation which needs to be dealt with at the behest of the landowner. Secondary poisoning is a real worry.

Eh no.... your wanton spilling of grain on the ground has resulted in a rat infestation.
But fair play to you, for all the conservation work.
I suggest putting the feeder on a platform off the ground, such that a rat climbing up the leg would be faced with an overhang to get past. Pheasants would be able to fly/hop up onto it.
Have you ever seen those things that look like stone mushrooms being used as garden ornaments? They were used long ago to stack grain crops on before threshing, the overhang of the "mushroom top" was to keep rats out of the stack.

dodderangler

If you are in Dublin or not to far ive 3 ferrets there I wanna let them on rats this year aswell as the rabbits so I'd pop up and see the holes and send the gang down
Other thing that'd work aswell if you surrounded the area with ferret sh1t
If they smell ferret they won't come close

Half-cocked

dodderangler wrote: »

If you are in Dublin or not to far ive 3 ferrets there I wanna let them on rats this year

Afraid we're down in south Kildare, but thanks for the offer.

I've gone through all the photos and the pheasants are hardly using that feeder so I will move it away and follow some of the suggestions above re rat proof platforms. Thanks all for the advice.

.223forme

http://youtu.be/wSuayiv4aC4
this is what you need...very effective

What posion is most effective and safe to use? I live in an old cottage in the country. I have a bird table outside my back door and every year, one or two rats will appear and help themselves to stuff under the table, like OP's photo. I use Storm, but it doesn't seem to be working this year. Any suggestions?

.223forme

Deleted User wrote: »

What posion is most effective and safe to use? I live in an old cottage in the country. I have a bird table outside my back door and every year, one or two rats will appear and help themselves to stuff under the table, like OP's photo. I use Storm, but it doesn't seem to be working this year. Any suggestions?

if you can atal,,invest in an airrifle or get a lend of one,,very effective also and if the rats are in the habbit of feeding in that certain spot ,you wont be waiting long before the chance arrises to pop them!