Pull up issues

Fishooks12

High, long time reader of the forum first time poster.


So basically I've gotten back into resistance training after a substantial break away from it. (I went back playing rugby after a year out because of erasmus)


I'm 88kg, 6"1 and 22 years of age and I've been hitting the gym 3 nights a week for the last 3 weeks.

Basically my problem lies in the lack of ability to do pull ups. I can only mange 3.

Now I'm sligtly concerned as to why I can't do many more. I'm not unfit (hardly at the top of my fitness either though), and my strength using weights is pretty inline with what I think it should be (military press with 15kg dumbells, benching 60kg for 3 sets and 8 reps for example)

That's why I'm slightly concerned about my lack of ability with pull ups. Now I should add I've never really done them before but considering my age, weight and relative fitness and strength, should I not be able to do a good few more than at a stretch?


Fishooks12

papu

Fishooks12 wrote: »

High, long time reader of the forum first time poster.


So basically I've gotten back into resistance training after a substantial break away from it. (I went back playing rugby after a year out because of erasmus)


I'm 88kg, 6"1 and 22 years of age and I've been hitting the gym 3 nights a week for the last 3 weeks.

Basically my problem lies in the lack of ability to do pull ups. I can only mange 3.

Now I'm sligtly concerned as to why I can't do many more. I'm not unfit (hardly at the top of my fitness either though), and my strength using weights is pretty inline with what I think it should be (military press with 15kg dumbells, benching 60kg for 3 sets and 8 reps for example)

That's why I'm slightly concerned about my lack of ability with pull ups. Now I should add I've never really done them before but considering my age, weight and relative fitness and strength, should I not be able to do a good few more than at a stretch?


Fishooks12

Depending on your hand position and grip you could be working your biceps , , back ,lats as well as a whole other bunch of muscles. If you've been neglecting any of these it could be stopping you from doing more pullups , I wouldn't be concerned unless you're feeling pain , not being able to do them just shows, as you said , that you've been neglecting to train for them.

If your gym has an assisted pullup machine use that to do a few more reps after you can manage your own bodyweight.
If you dont have an assisted pullup machine , push yourself up and very very slowly lower yourself back down.

Takes a long time and a decent amount of training (for me anyway) to be able to rep out over half a dozen pullups. It's a great exercise that works so many upperbody muscles.

Hanley

Fishooks12 wrote: »

High, long time reader of the forum first time poster.


So basically I've gotten back into resistance training after a substantial break away from it. (I went back playing rugby after a year out because of erasmus)


I'm 88kg, 6"1 and 22 years of age and I've been hitting the gym 3 nights a week for the last 3 weeks.

Basically my problem lies in the lack of ability to do pull ups. I can only mange 3.

Now I'm sligtly concerned as to why I can't do many more. I'm not unfit (hardly at the top of my fitness either though), and my strength using weights is pretty inline with what I think it should be (military press with 15kg dumbells, benching 60kg for 3 sets and 8 reps for example)

That's why I'm slightly concerned about my lack of ability with pull ups. Now I should add I've never really done them before but considering my age, weight and relative fitness and strength, should I not be able to do a good few more than at a stretch?


Fishooks12

The bolded part is your problem. None of the things you quoted re: numbers are any indicator of pull up strength. And without specifically trying to focus on pull ups, you probably won't get better at pull ups.

Fishooks12

Hanley wrote: »

The bolded part is your problem. None of the things you quoted re: numbers are any indicator of pull up strength. And without specifically trying to focus on pull ups, you probably won't get better at pull ups.

Cheers, I half thought that tbh.

Do you think I should start cold turkey or use the assisted pull up machine?

Hanley

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Cheers, I half thought that tbh.

Do you think I should start cold turkey or use the assisted pull up machine?

Assisted pull up machines are pretty sh*t.

Banded assisted "real" pull ups would be better.

Or you could do the following:

WEEK 1
8x1 - monday
9x1 - wednesday
10x1 - friday

WEEK 2
8x2 - monday
9x2 - wednesday
10x2 - friday

WEEK 3
8x3 - monday etc

The above works EXCEPTIONALLY well for ring rows (took a dude from 35 to 74 unbroken in 6 weeks, and a few others have seen 100% increases in that time too) and it's pretty boss on pull ups too.

AntiVirus

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Cheers, I half thought that tbh.

Do you think I should start cold turkey or use the assisted pull up machine?

You don't need to use the assisted pull up machine. You'll get better quicker without using it. You just need to have a pull up routine. You can do 3 in one go so do 3 take a rest do 2 take a rest do 1. Take a 2 minute break and repeat then take another 2 minute break and repeat again.

The trick with pull ups is to keep doing them.

Hanley

AntiVirus wrote: »

You don't need to use the assisted pull up machine. You'll get better quicker without using it. You just need to have a pull up routine. You can do 3 in one go so do 3 take a rest do 2 take a rest do 1. Take a 2 minute break and repeat then take another 2 minute break and repeat again.

The trick with pull ups is to keep doing them.

Just as an addendum - the trick is also to avoid failure

I know you didn't suggest he goes to failure, but just wanted to lob it in there.

beggars_bush

cold turkey

everytime you walk past the pull up bar in the gym, do one or two pull ups/chin ups. In the course of a gym session you'll build up far more than you would doing 3 sets to failure.

another approach is to do negatives - you jump up into the chin up/pull ups final position and lower yourself down slowly for 5 seconds. do 4/5 of them. they are a killer on the lats. building this strength to control the movement will help the next time.

Please Kill Me

Yup, like everyone has said, just build up to it. When I got my pull-up bar, I could do 2. That's it!! After a few months, I have built it up to three sets of 25. If I can do it, anyone can!

AntiVirus

Hanley wrote: »

Just as an addendum - the trick is also to avoid failure

I know you didn't suggest he goes to failure, but just wanted to lob it in there.

Very true but he should try at least once a week to beat his max. When the number starts going up you really have to push hard to beat your max.

AntiVirus

Please Kill Me wrote: »

Yup, like everyone has said, just build up to it. When I got my pull-up bar, I could do 2. That's it!! After a few months, I have built it up to three sets of 25. If I can do it, anyone can!

That's pretty impressive! What's your resting time between sets? and what would be your max set? My max chin ups is 25 but I can only do 3 sets of 15. You must be up at 40.

Kipping doesn't count ;-)

Please Kill Me

AntiVirus wrote: »

That's pretty impressive! What's your resting time between sets? and what would be your max set? My max chin ups is 25 but I can only do 3 sets of 15. You must be up at 40.

Kipping doesn't count ;-)

Not a lot of resting time. Enough to do a set of squats (25) and 50 sit-ups (part of the Convict Conditioning program) Don't know what my max set is, never tried it.

And I don't do kipping. :P

AntiVirus

Please Kill Me wrote: »

Not a lot of resting time. Enough to do a set of squats (25) and 50 sit-ups (part of the Convict Conditioning program) Don't know what my max set is, never tried it.

And I don't do kipping. :P

Excellent, that's impressive and I'm glad to hear you don't kip.

colman1212

Hanley wrote: »

Just as an addendum - the trick is also to avoid failure

I know you didn't suggest he goes to failure, but just wanted to lob it in there.

Hanley, What do you mean by avoid failure?
So for example if I was doing pullups at the mo it would look something like
Set 1 - 10
Set 2 - 9 then fail
Set 3 - 7 then fail
Set 4 - 6 then fail

Are you better off doing 4 sets of 7 where you dont fail?

Mellor

colman1212 wrote: »

Hanley, What do you mean by avoid failure?
So for example if I was doing pullups at the mo it would look something like
Set 1 - 10
Set 2 - 9 then fail
Set 3 - 7 then fail
Set 4 - 6 then fail

Are you better off doing 4 sets of 7 where you dont fail?

That's exactly what he means. When I fail a pull sup set, or even if I get the reps but scrape the last. I can never really recover my for for the next set.

If failing early means you drop reps, you'll slow progress.
Instead do 4 sets of 7. Next time do 4 x 8, Depending on how the last set feels, either repeat next time if unsure or move up a rep if you feel confidant.

Pace2008

Hanley wrote: »

Assisted pull up machines are pretty sh*t.

Banded assisted "real" pull ups would be better.

Or you could do the following:

WEEK 1
8x1 - monday
9x1 - wednesday
10x1 - friday

WEEK 2
8x2 - monday
9x2 - wednesday
10x2 - friday

WEEK 3
8x3 - monday etc

The above works EXCEPTIONALLY well for ring rows (took a dude from 35 to 74 unbroken in 6 weeks, and a few others have seen 100% increases in that time too) and it's pretty boss on pull ups too.

How does the programming of this work, exactly? Would the below be suitable for someone who's stuck at around 20 pull ups?

WEEK1

8x6 - Monday
9x6 - Wednesday
10x6 - Friday

WEEK 2

8x7 - Monday
9x7 - Wednesday
10x7 - Friday

etc.

Also, what would be a ballpark rest time between sets? "As long as it takes to complete all reps with decent form" kinda thing? Cheers.

Dermighty

Pull ups are an intense exercise.

I was unable to do them until early this year and with advice from the lads/ladies here I can now do them without much hassle.

In my case I was gripping too wide, which was hurting my shoulders and making them harder. I now go for a grip just outside the vertical line of my deltoids, so slightly wider than shoulder width. I found this makes them a lot less stressful on my shoulders.

If someone hasn't already mentioned it, try negatives!

The resistance bands are also great, I used them for a couple of months (going for 5 sets of 8-12) each time. Then one day I just stopped, did 2 or 3 proper pull ups, and now I'm up to 6 or so. It's slow going but rewarding.

tmc86

Pull ups are one of my favourite excesses in the gym. After warm up and stretching I'll do 2 sets then I move onto dumbbell bench/bench press for 6 sets but in between each set I'll do a set of pull ups and then 2 final sets after my bench. I find it a really good filler for between sets.

I'd agree that you just have to keep at them but you'll be surprised how quickly you"ll improve

TheNap

Recently bought a pull up bar myself.. Im up to 10 reps of chin ups . At the start i couldnt even do one pull up . Now i can do 2 . Just asking , do pull ups work more muscles in the upper body ? If so i will concentrate on doing both chins and pull instead of just sticking to chins because i find them easier

Pace2008

If you can do 10 chin ups and only 2 pull ups I'd say there's a pretty huge discrepancy in your ROM for each exercise.

butthatsjustme

Pace2008 wrote: »

If you can do 10 chin ups and only 2 pull ups I'd say there's a pretty huge discrepancy in your ROM for each exercise.

I can do about 3 sets of 5 chin ups, but not one pull up. I find the bars for pull ups are waaay too far apart in the gym?

Guessing I'm doing it wrong...

double GG

butthatsjustme wrote: »

I can do about 3 sets of 5 chin ups, but not one pull up. I find the bars for pull ups are waaay too far apart in the gym?

Guessing I'm doing it wrong...

Perhaps not, perhaps your back is pretty weak? I can do 9-10 chin ups in a row but can barely muster a couple pull ups.

butthatsjustme

double GG wrote: »

Perhaps not, perhaps your back is pretty weak? I can do 9-10 chin ups in a row but can barely muster a couple pull ups.

It could well be!! Along with all the rest of me :P

I was thinking about setting myself a new goal to do a set of three pull ups... Realistically would it take ages to be able to get to that level?? Do chin ups help?

nice_guy80

pull ups put a lot of stress on your shoulders (just the rotation involved)

I can do 9 bodyweight chin ups flying.

I'd say maybe, 3 pull ups. I haven't tried to do them in months.

papu

Could be under developed Lats.

Loads of info to read through here. and supporting exercises.

Wasn't able to do any at the start of the summer , can manage 6 or 7 for 3 sets now

butthatsjustme

papu wrote: »

Could be under developed Lats.

Loads of info to read through here. and supporting exercises.

Wasn't able to do any at the start of the summer , can manage 6 or 7 for 3 sets now

I actually found that link before when Googling how to do pull ups

I'm so nervous of trying pull ups in the gym! I'm such a wuss, I don't even go near the proper bars, I use the assisted chin up machine with the assisted thing pushed up out of the way...
But new years resolution, do me some pull ups!

papu

butthatsjustme wrote: »

I actually found that link before when Googling how to do pull ups

I'm so nervous of trying pull ups in the gym! I'm such a wuss, I don't even go near the proper bars, I use the assisted chin up machine with the assisted thing pushed up out of the way...
But new years resolution, do me some pull ups!

You'll progress faster doing the negative ones rather than using the assisted machine i found

TheNap

I can do constantly do 2 reps now .I'll keep adding 1 rep every 4-5 daysIt will be slow but its how i progressed with chins .Never knew my back was so weak

butthatsjustme

papu wrote: »

You'll progress faster doing the negative ones rather than using the assisted machine i found

Thanks for the tip, will definitely try!

Are there any other things? Would neutral grip ones help? Are they easier than pull ups but tougher than chins?

I didn't mean assisted pull ups, just meant I'm terrified to use the bars because I don't wanna end up dangling like a weak little girl in front of everyone, and the assisted machine isn't in quite so prominent a location!

Duck's hoop

Rather than start a new thread;

I can do 9 pull ups. And maybe 14/15 chins. I've recently been given a specific 'conditioning' programme to follow. An element of which is 4 sets of 20/15/10/20 horizontal rows. And also lat pull downs.

Will this be more beneficial to my endurance training than say 4*6 pull-ups and 4*10 chins?

Hanley

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Rather than start a new thread;

I can do 9 pull ups. And maybe 14/15 chins. I've recently been given a specific 'conditioning' programme to follow. An element of which is 4 sets of 20/15/10/20 horizontal rows. And also lat pull downs.

Will this be more beneficial to my endurance training than say 4*6 pull-ups and 4*10 chins?

What kind of "endurance" are you looking for??

Sangre

Hanley wrote: »

What kind of "endurance" are you looking for??

Functional endurance obviously.

Duck's hoop

Hoho!

It's never simple.

Muscular. I think I know the answer.

Hanley

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Hoho!

It's never simple.

Muscular. I think I know the answer.

For what? Serious Q.

AntiVirus

butthatsjustme wrote: »

Would neutral grip ones help? Are they easier than pull ups but tougher than chins?

Neutral grip will definitly help. They are harder than chin ups buy easier than pull ups. With everything being equal, if you can do 10 chin ups you should be able to do 8 neutral pull ups and 6 pull ups.

Its a good idea to do all 3 types and not stick to just one type. The only real way to get good at them is to keep doing them.

TheNap

Stuck on 11 chins at the moment and cant seem to get past it .Any ideas on how i can ?

RidleyRider

TheNap wrote: »

Stuck on 11 chins at the moment and cant seem to get past it .Any ideas on how i can ?

When I got stuck a few months back on un-weighted pull ups I added weight and went to failure for 3-5 sets and after a few weeks what I was achieving un-weighted was what I was doing weighted.

Stick at it and you'll blast through it.

TheNap

Up to 13 now . Not too shabby considering i could only do 4 a couple of months ago

nice_guy80

TheNap wrote: »

Up to 13 now . Not too shabby considering i could only do 4 a couple of months ago

damn you
still stuck on 10.
despite adding weight - 9.5kg
maybe I need to add more weight?

TheNap

nice_guy80 wrote: »

damn you
still stuck on 10.
despite adding weight - 9.5kg
maybe I need to add more weight?

I didnt add any weight to get a couple more reps . Instead of doing 3 sets of 11 , 8 , 6 i changed it to do 3 sets of 8 . Took rest days the day after them and 5 days later my reps increased by 2 .

Esse85

Mental block plays a big part in this exercise.

Scuba Ste

nice_guy80 wrote: »

damn you
still stuck on 10.
despite adding weight - 9.5kg
maybe I need to add more weight?

How many reps are getting with 9.5kg? I always found volume better than just adding weight.

nice_guy80

Scuba Ste wrote: »

How many reps are getting with 9.5kg? I always found volume better than just adding weight.

5/6?
3 or 4 sets.

i've tried the volume approach too - 4 sets of 7/8

Scuba Ste

nice_guy80 wrote: »

5/6?
3 or 4 sets.

i've tried the volume approach too - 4 sets of 7/8

You can do sets of 8 but only 10 max. I know there's a sharp drop off in pull ups but that's extreme.

rubadub

Esse85 wrote: »

Mental block plays a big part in this exercise.

+1

nice_guy80 wrote: »

damn you
still stuck on 10.

I bet far more people get stuck on 10 than on 9 or 11 (10 being a nice round number). I was suggesting even trying counting up in letters, and not to go figure out what each letter means numberwise.

When I got stuck on numbers I would sometimes do a few negative only reps straight after, though some might not recommend this. People rave about negatives for beginners but you do not hear much after that -even though they got such good results starting out.

nice_guy80

i need to go back to doing more negatives.
thats what got me up to 10.

yeah, maybe i just need to focus on repping out a max score some day, with a few days rest beforehand.

brownej

General Pull up question?

Should you go back into a dead hang on every rep?

I see a load of guys only doing half reps and getting nowhere near the bottom of the range of motion.

Zombienosh

brownej wrote: »

General Pull up question?

Should you go back into a dead hang on every rep?

I see a load of guys only doing half reps and getting nowhere near the bottom of the range of motion.

"locking out" as its called, its harder but it will be better in the long run to always get full range of motion.

MarkY91

im working out almost 2 years now. i was/am a skinny person. ive progressed on every workout, lifting heavier than ever..yet i still just cannot do pull ups.so im in your position too..i really must take the advice of the above posters because its a really good exercise to be missing out on

Hanley

Chap claimed 40x strict wide grip pull ups w/ 20kg hanging off him to a client the other day. Serious spoofer

nice_guy80

12 chin ups this evening (first set)

plus two more sets of 9 and 8.