snow tyres?

Gee_G

Just looking for some feedback from anyone who has purchased them? Worth the money? I live on quite a steep hill and get stuck in snow.
and I'm not looking for advice on weather forecasts as I have been getting from everybody else I have asked

Matt Simis

Without the argument if they are needed here (which is done to death on every Irish forum every November) I can tell you from experience in your scenario that yes, in the Snow or Ice they are a quantum league over a Summer tyre. There is no comparison at all.

I recommend looking for them in a Part Worn place, much cheaper and wallet friendly for a limited use tyre.

bbsrs

Matt Simis wrote: »

Without the argument if they are needed here (which is done to death on every Irish forum every November) I can tell you from experience in your scenario that yes, in the Snow or Ice they are a quantum league over a Summer tyre. There is no comparison at all.

I recommend looking for them in a Part Worn place, much cheaper and wallet friendly for a limited use tyre.

+1 on the part worn bit and +1 again on they are defo worth it. Had part worn but basically new on my 3 series and they are great in the snow , ice and even rain . Buy a spare set of secondhand steel rims and just swop them over every winter.

CiniO

On snow - yes. Difference is huge.
But ice - I wouldn't expect miracles.
If hill is steep and covered in ice, even the best winter tyres won't help.
What you need for ice is studded tyres or chains.

Esel

I know this has probably been asked and answered somewhere in the previous threads, but anyway...

What are the pros and cons of leaving winter tyres on year-round? From the point of view of grip, braking, mpg, wet and dry conditions etc. ?

Matt Simis

Esel wrote: »

I know this has probably been asked and answered somewhere in the previous threads, but anyway...

What are the pros and cons of leaving winter tyres on year-round? From the point of view of grip, braking, mpg, wet and dry conditions etc. ?

There are only Cons to this aside from the cost aspect of only have one set of tyres/wheels:

Increased wear on the tyre (dramatically so at +20c).
Poorer braking in temps over 7c (arguably in temps 10c and above).
Generally poorer MPG as the tyre is softer (not really a problem in cold weather but they get soft in the summer).


They wont be awful, but wouldnt really be a great plan.

Gee_G

I saw an ad on Donedeal with pictures and all(and they look practicly new) for €160 which is a hell of a lot cheaper than ordinary one's cost me! Might look into them. I know they won't work miracles on ice but even if I could make it in the snow and if it got bad ,park at the bottom (which we usually have to do) at least I'd be able to tackle the road ,that also has never seen a bit of grit(and yes I do live in the back of beyond):)
Thanks for the help

bbsrs

Esel wrote: »

I know this has probably been asked and answered somewhere in the previous threads, but anyway...

What are the pros and cons of leaving winter tyres on year-round? From the point of view of grip, braking, mpg, wet and dry conditions etc. ?

Look what happens to formula 1 wets on a dry track , same thing happens to Snow tyres on the road in non winter conditions just to a much lesser degree.

opinion guy

Matt Simis wrote: »

quantum league leap

Matt Simis

opinion guy wrote: »

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

On snow - yes. Difference is huge.
But ice - I wouldn't expect miracles.
If hill is steep and covered in ice, even the best winter tyres won't help.
What you need for ice is studded tyres or chains.

Studded tyres aren't really practical in Ireland. Winter/snow tyres and chains is the best bet.

Gee_G wrote: »

I saw an ad on Donedeal with pictures and all(and they look practicly new) for €160 which is a hell of a lot cheaper than ordinary one's cost me! Might look into them. I know they won't work miracles on ice but even if I could make it in the snow and if it got bad ,park at the bottom (which we usually have to do) at least I'd be able to tackle the road ,that also has never seen a bit of grit(and yes I do live in the back of beyond):)
Thanks for the help

Whatever about getting up the hill coming back down can be much more dangerous, even with chains, if it's icy.

keithclancy

Germany is great for second hand sets.

I went a bit mad and got a set of 205/55/R16 Michelin Pilot Alpins including the original Volvo Alloys for 380 euros.

I hindsight I could have just gotten a set on steelies, but its nice to have the same wheels on the car when I switch over in Winter They sit in the shed for the majority of the year, will be swapping them over this weekend.

Its funny, when its a legal requirement (which it is in Germany in Winter) sometimes people will try to make it look like they have Winter Tyres by having a crappy spare set of tyres on steel wheels.

Gee_G

Del2005 wrote: »

Studded tyres aren't really practical in Ireland. Winter/snow tyres and chains is the best bet.



Whatever about getting up the hill coming back down can be much more dangerous, even with chains, if it's icy.

Tell me about it! I don't intend moving out all that often if it is bad to be honest. We used to be able to chance it but we've a new baby now and there's no chancing anything anymore

ednwireland

when ive had occasion to use them (last winter they stayed in the shed) previous 2 iran all winter on them, its like night and day, and as to ice the big difference i notice is that on summers you dont know which way the cars going to go when you brake on ice /snow, but the winters you just slow down in a straight line.

as to yes they slide on ice but any bit of grip and you can feel the grip and again i find the sliding more controllable

but then they are on my 98 primera !

b318isp

keithclancy wrote: »

Its funny, when its a legal requirement (which it is in Germany in Winter) sometimes people will try to make it look like they have Winter Tyres by having a crappy spare set of tyres on steel wheels.

AFAIK this is not true in Germany or Switzerland (not sure of other countries) according to people I have met over there. It's not a legal requirement but something stipulated by insurance companies. If you have an accident and are found not to be on winter tyres, then any claim may not go in your favour.

CiniO

b318isp wrote: »

AFAIK this is not true in Germany or Switzerland (not sure of other countries) according to people I have met over there. It's not a legal requirement but something stipulated by insurance companies. If you have an accident and are found not to be on winter tyres, then any claim may not go in your favour.

It is legal requirement in Germany to have adequate tyres for road conditions, so it means that if you are driving on road covered in snow, ice or after-snow-mud you are must have tyres with M+S marking. If you are caught without them it's 40 euros fine. If you cause an obstruction then it is 80 euros fine. Those regulations apply between something like November and March afair.

eoin.obrien1

year before last I had a lexus IS200 that was useless in the snow. Very first dusting of snow couldn't get up even a slight incline.

I put a set of winter tyres (Kumho)on it and a bag of coal in the boot and didn't get stuck again even in the worst of the snow.

Difference between summer and winter tyres is unbelievable in the snow. I left them on until the end of march.

b318isp

CiniO wrote: »

It is legal requirement in Germany to have adequate tyres for road conditions, so it means that if you are driving on road covered in snow, ice or after-snow-mud you are must have tyres with M+S marking. If you are caught without them it's 40 euros fine. If you take part in accident without them is 80 euros fine. Those regulations apply between something like November and March afair.

Seems like this is a recent change, and i'm right about Switzerland:

http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/winter-tyres/laws-and-legislation

CiniO

b318isp wrote: »

Seems like this is a recent change

I think last winter was the first one in Germany with those regulations applying.

b318isp

CiniO wrote: »

I think last winter was the first one in Germany with those regulations applying.

Yeah, the law was enacted at the end of 2010. Learnt something new today!

keithclancy

b318isp wrote: »

AFAIK this is not true in Germany or Switzerland (not sure of other countries) according to people I have met over there. It's not a legal requirement but something stipulated by insurance companies. If you have an accident and are found not to be on winter tyres, then any claim may not go in your favour.

No, as stated its a Legal Requirement in Germany since 2010. It was different per region up until then (E.G. Different rule in Nordrhein-Wesfalen than in Bavaria)

My Insurance Company is Dutch, there is no requirement in the Netherlands for me to have Winter Tyres on the car, its only when I cross the border to go to work.

Saying that, I'd still have them even if it wasn't a legal requirement, when the snow gets bad during the Winter it can mean the difference between getting out of your unploughed estate onto a main road

creedp

eoin.obrien1 wrote: »

year before last I had a lexus IS200 that was useless in the snow. Very first dusting of snow couldn't get up even a slight incline.

I put a set of winter tyres (Kumho)on it and a bag of coal in the boot and didn't get stuck again even in the worst of the snow.

Difference between summer and winter tyres is unbelievable in the snow. I left them on until the end of march.

I've been looking into this as well because of rural road/steep incline issue and was considering buying 2nd hand steels and put a set of winter tyres on them. However, speaking to a couple of guys in the tyre business I was advised to get a good set of all seasons (Pirelli) and run them all year. According to them, the all seasons might be a little less capable that full winters in snow but will be very close when travelling on ice/heavy rain. Any views on this as a good set of all seasons for me (225/50/17 xl) can be got for around the same price as premium summers. While I would like the idea of full winters for very snowy conditions, the vast majority of winter driving will be done on frosty/wet roads. Any views?

CiniO

creedp wrote: »

I've been looking into this as well because of rural road/steep incline issue and was considering buying 2nd hand steels and put a set of winter tyres on them. However, speaking to a couple of guys in the tyre business I was advised to get a good set of all seasons (Pirelli) and run them all year. According to them, the all seasons might be a little less capable that full winters in snow but will be very close when travelling on ice/heavy rain. Any views on this as a good set of all seasons for me (225/50/17 xl) can be got for around the same price as premium summers. While I would like the idea of full winters for very snowy conditions, the vast majority of winter driving will be done on frosty/wet roads. Any views?

Many people here don't agree with my opinion, but me experience shows that for wet road, it's the normal summer tyres which are the best, even at temperature of less than 7 degrees.


All seasons seem to be much worse on snow than real winter tyres.

Blazer

CiniO wrote: »

Many people here don't agree with my opinion, but me experience shows that for wet road, it's the normal summer tyres which are the best, even at temperature of less than 7 degrees.


All seasons seem to be much worse on snow than real winter tyres.

depends on what brands you're comparing against.

I had 2 sets of Dunlops for my car..winters and summers. Both of them were of the same brand Dunlop Sport.
In the rain the winters were miles better than the summer especially on roads with very heavy rainfall.
Sure your expensive summers are prob better than the cheapest chinese winter tyres but a like for like comparison? Winters are far better on wet roads at 7c and below.

CiniO

Blazer wrote: »

depends on what brands you're comparing against.

I had 2 sets of Dunlops for my car..winters and summers. Both of them were of the same brand Dunlop Sport.
In the rain the winters were miles better than the summer especially on roads with very heavy rainfall.
Sure your expensive summers are prob better than the cheapest chinese winter tyres but a like for like comparison? Winters are far better on wet roads at 7c and below.

I said that many people here don't agree with me.
However I've been regular user of winter tyres for the last 13 years, and I tried plenty of different brands and combinations.
So far didn't find a winter tyres which would be better on wet road than summer tyres (I've never used any chineese brands).
Also this magical 7 degrees borderline for swap in my opinion is just a marketing thing.
Winter tyres are great for driving on snow, but beside that on dry or wet road, summer tyres are better in nearly all temperatures.

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

I said that many people here don't agree with me.
However I've been regular user of winter tyres for the last 13 years, and I tried plenty of different brands and combinations.
So far didn't find a winter tyres which would be better on wet road than summer tyres (I've never used any chineese brands).
Also this magical 7 degrees borderline for swap in my opinion is just a marketing thing.
Winter tyres are great for driving on snow, but beside that on dry or wet road, summer tyres are better in nearly all temperatures.

I agree, always found the Winter Tyres to be a bit more drifty (and noisy too) if its very wet.

dgt

In the winter of 2010 my cheap little Punto, with 50mm drop and 40 profile tyres never once got stuck and went places 4x4s couldn't even get. Stopped on iced hills, sharp corners, got through them no problems. On Accelera Alpha tyres, summer tyres. I'd say the tyres did feck all to help me that time.

Or how about the rwd Daily van on leaf springs, didn't get stuck either on commercial tyres pumped to 70psi/5 bar? No slipping or sliding on some seriously snowed roads.

Personally, I thinks you can have all the driving aids you like but if you don't know how to drive in snow or ice they ain't going to be much use. But that's just my opinion

Blazer

CiniO wrote: »

Also this magical 7 degrees borderline for swap in my opinion is just a marketing thing.
Winter tyres are great for driving on snow, but beside that on dry or wet road, summer tyres are better in nearly all temperatures.

The 7c is a guideline as to when summer tyres compound start to harden thus leading to less grip...I'm not sure how you can say this is marketing hype etc as it's scientific fact
Winter tyres are made of a soft and natural rubber rather than synthetic rubber normally found in all seasons/summers thus leading to better traction at lower temps.

b318isp

I always find it funny when people state guidelines as black and white facts. Winter tyres don't "suddenly" become better below 7degC and summers don't become "suddenly" better above 7degC.

It's a sliding scale - winters tyres generally become better than summers tyres with declining temperatures, and vice versa. 7degC is only a guideline where it could considered that the relative merits are about equal.

CiniO

Blazer wrote: »

The 7c is a guideline as to when summer tyres compound start to harden thus leading to less grip...I'm not sure how you can say this is marketing hype etc as it's scientific fact
Winter tyres are made of a soft and natural rubber rather than synthetic rubber normally found in all seasons/summers thus leading to better traction at lower temps.

Any proof about scientific grounds of this fact?

Take a first example - car rallies.
Imagine special stage on dry tarmac at -5 degrees.
Guess what tyres will drivers choose.
Will it be slicks, or winter tyres?

gooner99

I have 2 sets of rims. Last winter I had part worn dunlops which were great in the wet (didn't get any real snow or ice).Only thing I'll warn about part worns is that unlike summers, winters are not that effective once they go below 4mm thread in real winter conditions. Got new Goodyears from Eiretyres for €70 a corner. Got them fitted/balance and recycle of the old ones for €25 Yesterday.Much better already on the standing water and great grip on corners.Recommend them highly

If you want to run one set of rims you can get all weathers with the snowflake, but be careful as only a handful have been proven effective in winter conditions. goodyear, nokian, vredestien, hankook from what I've read are the best of these.

Mar4ix

Last year everyone spoke about 4 degrees, now is 7 must be somebody trying make some money.

Ive never noticed anything wrong to drive with summer tires on dry road, even if minus. But things changing opposite, when hit snow/icy road. ...
@ dgt you must have very very special tires, when stating that. i haven't driven those Accelera tires, must be supper good in any whether, but i've seen very tragical situation when people driving summer tires in winter. Those winter tires doesn't do magic at all, but they do some lil grip, while reasonable speed... a specially, now most cars have abs.

in that 2010, ive seen how people sliding from lil hils at South circular road and Old Kilmainham crossroads, and bouncing with each other like a balls in billiard. I was driving skyline that time with winter tires on, even managed escape from somebody, who was slowly and steady sliding in to me from hill .

People have no skills to drive cars in winter, so id say, there wouldnt be big difference if they have winter tires, but ....... always chance to learn .... when winter is. :pac:

Cuddlesworth

CiniO wrote: »

Any proof about scientific grounds of this fact?

Take a first example - car rallies.
Imagine special stage on dry tarmac at -5 degrees.
Guess what tyres will drivers choose.
Will it be slicks, or winter tyres?

That's some very flawed logic.

Rally drivers would be a special case as the abuse they would give their tires during a race would have them at operating temp in no time. In normal driving conditions this would not be applicable.

gooner99

Mar4ix wrote: »

Last year everyone spoke about 4 degrees, now is 7 must be somebody trying make some money.

Ive never noticed anything wrong to drive with summer tires on dry road, even if minus. But things changing opposite, when hit snow/icy road. ...
@ dgt you must have very very special tires, when stating that. i haven't driven those Accelera tires, must be supper good in any whether, but i've seen very tragical situation when people driving summer tires in winter. Those winter tires doesn't do magic at all, but they do some lil grip, while reasonable speed... a specially, now most cars have abs.

in that 2010, ive seen how people sliding from lil hils at South circular road and Old Kilmainham crossroads, and bouncing with each other like a balls in billiard. I was driving skyline that time with winter tires on, even managed escape from somebody, who was slowly and steady sliding in to me from hill .

People have no skills to drive cars in winter, so id say, there wouldnt be big difference if they have winter tires, but ....... always chance to learn .... when winter is. :pac:

Have a look on the web. 7 degrees has always been the case.

RootX

Interesting read
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/winter-tyres-tested/259257

CiniO

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

That's some very flawed logic.

Rally drivers would be a special case as the abuse they would give their tires during a race would have them at operating temp in no time. In normal driving conditions this would not be applicable.

Here's the quote from article which Rootx linked

Our dry test measured braking from 62mph. The temperature during the test averaged 5.5C, yet the summer tyres stopped our Volkswagen Golf test car earlier – in an average of 37.9 metres. The winter tyres took an average of 5.8 metres longer to pull up, and even the worst of the summer tyres – the Nankang Ultra Sport NS-2 – outperformed the best winter tyre, the Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830.

It’s clear that winter tyres don’t always offer better stopping performance in sub-7C conditions. Bear in mind, though, that you’re much more likely to be involved in an accident on wet roads.

Matt Simis

CiniO wrote: »

Here's the quote from article which Rootx linked

You probably should have also put in the Wet test, which actually was your point wasnt it?!

Wet braking
The first of our wet tests measured the braking distance of each tyre from 50mph. The temperature during the runs averaged 4C and the premium brands of winter tyre dominated. They stopped our Volkswagen Golf test car an average of four metres shorter than the premium summer tyres.

The budget winter tyre – the Nankang SV-2 – was off the pace, and was beaten by the Continental and Michelin summer tyres. It still stopped 2.7 metres shorter than the budget Nankang summer tyre, though.

As the article notes, bone dry roads arent a hazard in Winter, its snow, ice, wet and frost that is.

Mar4ix wrote: »

Last year everyone spoke about 4 degrees, now is 7 must be somebody trying make some money.

The tyre manufacturers and magazine tests always quote +7c as the "crossover" and thats what people here quote too. Weather you believe its exactly 7 or not is irrelevant, there has to be a consistently accepted crossover point and we should use the one the tyre makers agreed on.

bbam

We ues all-seasons as our usual tyres on both cars. We have to face a hill on our private lane so any snow at all and were in trouble..

Winter tyres make a good difference in snow, even over all-seasons.
OP I'd say its well worth having a set and changing them on..

People have been mentioning snow chains, aren't they illegal here as we don't get the covering of snow and they result in terrible road damage??

dgt

Mar4ix wrote: »

@ dgt you must have very very special tires, when stating that. i haven't driven those Accelera tires, must be supper good in any whether, but i've seen very tragical situation when people driving summer tires in winter. Those winter tires doesn't do magic at all, but they do some lil grip, while reasonable speed... a specially, now most cars have abs.

in that 2010, ive seen how people sliding from lil hils at South circular road and Old Kilmainham crossroads, and bouncing with each other like a balls in billiard. I was driving skyline that time with winter tires on, even managed escape from somebody, who was slowly and steady sliding in to me from hill .

People have no skills to drive cars in winter, so id say, there wouldnt be big difference if they have winter tires, but ....... always chance to learn .... when winter is. :pac:

Nothing special about them, just a budget low profile tyre, 60 sterling a corner. No abs, asr, no electroninc drivers aids (well, electronic steering) Taking off and stopping wern't a problem, I knew the cars limits before traction was broke

Cuddlesworth

My understanding of winter tires, is that the rubber compound is softer at lower temperatures and can easily bring itself up to a lower operating temperature in cold weather.

As a motorbike driver this is a concept I can completely understand. My tires from start have nowhere near the grip as they do after ten minutes driving. During winter my tires never come close to the grip levels achieved during the summer. They are simply unable to gain and maintain the temperatures needed to soften and provide good grip.

So Cino, when you link to a article where they do testing but fail to state the full parameters of the test I will tend to view it skeptically. A braking test on cold tires is a small portion of a cars journey. A braking test on tires that have been running at 50kph for 5+ minutes is a valid test for tires in this range as its testing exactly what Winters are designed to do in comparison to Summers.

b318isp

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

My understanding of winter tires, is that the rubber compound is softer at lower temperatures and can easily bring itself up to a lower operating temperature in cold weather.

No, they are made from a higher proportion of natural rubber which is more pliabe at lower temperatures. Car tyres do not heat up much unless they are put under considerable load for extended periods of time.

jeltz

Here is my take on the subject


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81545865&postcount=30

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81547070&postcount=37

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81549133&postcount=38

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81550782&postcount=45

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81551603&postcount=48

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81552135&postcount=51

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81552458&postcount=53


I wouldn't touch part worns, you don't know what has happened to them.

jeltz

b318isp wrote: »

No, they are made from a higher proportion of natural rubber which is more pliabe at lower temperatures. Car tyres do not heat up much unless they are put under considerable load for extended periods of time.

They are made from complex proprietary blends of natural compounds and synthetic oils and particles.

All season tyres are 'temperature reactive', harder in summer and softer in winter.

A huge effort goes into R&D because the continental market for all season tyres is getting bigger, for a long list of reasons, and the winter tyre market is also increasing for all grades. Greater competition means improvements to tyres at all price points so all season tyres keep getting better and better.

jeltz

This is where all season and winter tyres are tested in Finland close to the arctic circle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhb6snc4gyU

:pac:

I think this demonstrates that all season tyres are more than good enough for winter in this country.

Cuddlesworth

jeltz wrote: »

This is where all season and winter tyres are tested in Finland close to the arctic circle.

I think this demonstrates that all season tyres are more than good enough for winter in this country.

Our conditions tend to be worse then the nordic country's if and when we get minus temps because we tend to float between the freezing and melting point of water. So we get the worst type of icy roads, snow quickly compacted into ice and then ice with a film of water on it. And the fact that we are as a nation unprepared for those short periods of time that we get cold weather makes the situation more dangerous then it should be.

So I don't think we could be used a direct comparison to those country's like the above, ones that for the most part absolutely require winter tires. People off the beaten track there will find themselves driving with studded tires, like those here who live in remote locations or drive for a living should consider winter tires.

jeltz

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Our conditions tend to be worse then the nordic country's if and when we get minus temps because we tend to float between the freezing and melting point of water. So we get the worst type of icy roads, snow quickly compacted into ice and then ice with a film of water on it. And the fact that we are as a nation unprepared for those short periods of time that we get cold weather makes the situation more dangerous then it should be.

Nordic countries have exactly those conditions in spring and in autumn in the transition periods to and from winter.

Their conditions are many times worse in spring because the melting snow that turns to water in the daytime refreezes overnight to sheet ice then turns back into a mix of hard frozen ice, floating hard lumps of ice in pools of water, slush and snow the next morning. These conditions lead to aquaplaning on slush and water and ice all at once and were a major cause of fatilities. Tyre designers have always tried to reduce this hazard, that is why all season and winter tyres have deep polished grooves to evacuate this stuff.

That is also why studded tyres are so popular because the studs get a grip in this nightmare when nothing else will.

Our conditions will never ever be anything like Scandinavia not ever. Thats why all season tyres have no problems with our winters.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

So I don't think we could be used a direct comparison to those country's like the above, ones that for the most part absolutely require winter tires. People off the beaten track there will find themselves driving with studded tires, like those here who live in remote locations or drive for a living should consider winter tires.

I am not making a direct comparison with Nordic countries because our conditions will never ever be anything like Scandinavia not ever. Thats why all season tyres have no problems with our winters.

Having them on all year round means you won't be caught out by black ice or 'freak weather'. They are far better with deep water due to the slush grooves and ideal for our monsoon 'summers'.

CJhaughey

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

So I don't think we could be used a direct comparison to those country's like the above, ones that for the most part absolutely require winter tires. People off the beaten track there will find themselves driving with studded tires, like those here who live in remote locations or drive for a living should consider winter tires.

Nokian consider there to be two types of winter tyre conditions, Nordic, and Central European.
Nordic is ice, snow and in the spring, slush and they have specific tyres for these conditions.
Central European conditions are more wet cold roads with occasional ice and snow but mostly cold and damp.
They have other tyres for those conditions which is different and they recommend that if you are driving in demanding conditions that you buy the full Nordic winter tyres.

We have two sets of winters,The WRG2 which are discontinued and the All Weather Plus which have the same pattern with a different rubber compound.
The first set will be coming up for their third winter and have just started to wear the 8mm wear line off, in other words 1mm of wear per season of which a lot would have been dry road work.

Chains have their place, I wouldn't worry about their effect on roads they wouldn't be on long enough or on enough vehicles to cause issues.
The biggest danger with chains is impatient and incompetent drivers doing too high a speed with them and them coming loose and destroying the inside of the wheelarch/suspension and braking system.

jeltz

Friends of ours have Kleber Quadraxers which when fitted had 7mm of tread. When measured after they had done 6000 miles they had 7mm of tread. That is after more than a years use.


They don't drive like mentalists.

gooner99

jeltz wrote: »

Friends of ours have Kleber Quadraxers which when fitted had 7mm of tread. When measured after they had done 6000 miles they had 7mm of tread. That is after more than a years use.

How do they find them?

I believe these all weathers have the snowflake symbol!

jeltz

They think they are great for the safety aspects and the comfort level is better than the Goodyears they had before that. Fuel consumption is as good as it was according to the trip computer.

All the decent all weathers have the snowflake symbol. There are quite a few markings on the sidewall, it does have the snowflake symbol, the M+S mark and some other things I can't remember.

I have the Hankook Optimo 4S but I would drive the Klebers as well, they are a bit cheaper I think, the same as most decent budget tyres. Can't go wrong with either. The people I know using winters are using Hankook and Michelin Alpins and some other I have forgotten.

CiniO

CJhaughey wrote: »

Nokian consider there to be two types of winter tyre conditions, Nordic, and Central European.
Nordic is ice, snow and in the spring, slush and they have specific tyres for these conditions.
Central European conditions are more wet cold roads with occasional ice and snow but mostly cold and damp.
They have other tyres for those conditions which is different and they recommend that if you are driving in demanding conditions that you buy the full Nordic winter tyres.

Would you have any list, showing which tyre is Nordic and which one is Central EU? Or at least few examples.