Accident - non insurance claim

sillysocks

My sister was in an accident whre the other person has admitted full liability. Guards were called and the other driver also admitted that to them, and since in all calls has been happy to admit that, so liability isn't in question.
From the start they've said they don't want to go through insurance.

When it comes to repairing the car we got a quote from our garage of 1,600eur. The other party isn't happy with this cost and says his garage can do it much cheaper but we're not really happy with going to a garage we know nothing about and I'm guessing might be using second hand parts etc because she's said the quote is way dearer (ours is from a garage we trust, not a main dealer, and someone we've used for years and has never ripped us off).

I don't think the car would even be worth the 1,600 it is quoted to repair (probably worth nearer 1k), so do we just discuss with the 3rd party until we agree on a figure for repair/write off? We'd prefer just to repair it because to replace it is going to end up costing us money but I know economically it probably doesn't make sense for the other party.

I'm guessing if we don't get a satisfactory answer from them the only option is to threaten to go to insurance where we'd probably get next to nothing?

Stheno

sillysocks wrote: »

My sister was in an accident whre the other person has admitted full liability. Guards were called and the other driver also admitted that to them, and since in all calls has been happy to admit that, so liability isn't in question.
From the start they've said they don't want to go through insurance.

When it comes to repairing the car we got a quote from our garage of 1,600eur. The other party isn't happy with this cost and says his garage can do it much cheaper but we're not really happy with going to a garage we know nothing about and I'm guessing might be using second hand parts etc because she's said the quote is way dearer (ours is from a garage we trust, not a main dealer, and someone we've used for years and has never ripped us off).

I don't think the car would even be worth the 1,600 it is quoted to repair (probably worth nearer 1k), so do we just discuss with the 3rd party until we agree on a figure for repair/write off? We'd prefer just to repair it because to replace it is going to end up costing us money but I know economically it probably doesn't make sense for the other party.

I'm guessing if we don't get a satisfactory answer from them the only option is to threaten to go to insurance where we'd probably get next to nothing?

Report it to your insurance who will contact the other drivers insurance assuming you got the details?

See what the assessor says, and even at that point you can decide what option to take?

bazz26

If the other party admits liability then your sister is entitled to get the car repaired at the garage of her choice not theirs. If the other party is not happy with the quote then tell them that your insurance company will be dealing with their insurance company from now on. However the other insurance company may decide to write the car off and make a settlement offer.

Stheno

bazz26 wrote: »

If the other party admits liability then your sister is entitled to get the car repaired at the garage of her choice not theirs. If the other party is not happy with the quote then tell them that your insurance company will be dealing with their insurance company from now on.

OPs issue I suspect is that the insurance will write the car off as beyond economical repair though?

I'd still advise insurance and have it assessed and put the other driver on notice?

Trotter

Just curious on one thing from reading this thread..

If a damaged car is worth less than the cost of the repair, and the insurance company decides to write it off, are they obliged to provide enough money to replace the car?

As in.. Could a person be left with no car and a handful of cash that isn't enough to replace it?

bazz26

Stheno wrote: »

OPs issue I suspect is that the insurance will write the car off as beyond economical repair though?

I'd still advise insurance and have it assessed and put the other driver on notice?

Yeah I read it again. Tough one to call and the third party probably thinks the same.

Stheno

Trotter wrote: »

Just curious on one thing from reading this thread..

If a damaged car is worth less than the cost of the repair, and the insurance company decides to write it off, are they obliged to provide enough money to replace the car?

As in.. Could a person be left with no car and a handful of cash that isn't enough to replace it?

Basically yes. Too much damage and it's not worth paying for so you get the value of the car minus your excess.

SO if your car is worth 1000, you've a 250 excess and it's written off due to 1500 of repairs, you'll get 750 from insurance.

You can take that 750 and then see if you can get it repaired more cheaply than quoted by insurance/third parties. You need to advise your insurance of this though.

bazz26 wrote: »

Yeah I read it again. Tough one to call and the third party probably thinks the same.

Yep I reckon they are banking on it.

Atlantic Dawn

Just go through their insurance, they were given a chance and threw it back in your sisters face. Any stories I have heard like this always end in the victim being ripped off.

Supergurrier

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Just go through their insurance, they were given a chance and threw it back in your sisters face. Any stories I have heard like this always end in the victim being ripped off.

This 100 times over, the person who caused the accident was trying to protect their no claims then decided to chance being a cheapass, nuts to that, they either fix the car to 100% of what it was or go through insurance.

sillysocks

Thanks all for your replies so far, good to get help..... my sister has spoken with the other person and said that going to their garage is a no go, so its a bit of a stalemate at the moment. They've said they'll speak again in the morning and I'll get my sister to just say if a decision isn't made by lunchtime that she will be contacting her insurance and proceeding that way.

One other possible complication I forgot to add is that my brother was actually driving the car - his insurance covers him 3rd party on my sisters car, will this complicate things at all or is it still my sisters insurance company that we would contact to proceed?

someone told me to look up the revenue site to get a rough value of the car, and that comes back at 2k - are the insurance values normally roughly in line with those revenue ones or are they irrelevant?

Supergurrier

Your brother needs to triple check his insurance policy smallprint asap

sillysocks

Supergurrier wrote: »

Your brother needs to triple check his insurance policy smallprint asap

What is he looking for? He's insured 3rd party, and as the accident was the other persons fault (as admitted) I didn't think there would be any issue there?

Profiler

The brother driving on his own policies Driving Other Car cover shouldn't be a problem.

While your sister is waiting for the party at fault to decide she should contact her own insurance company and inform them of the facts.

Not sure about the revenue site for valuations as I've never used it, another way would be to check CBG.ie or a site like that for the same make, same model and roughly the same mileage and get an average price and use that as your guide.

On the write off situation there are two types of write off's there is Beyond Economic Repair (cost of repairs is more than the pre accident value) and total write off (not safe to put car back on the road).

As others have said, your Sister should get the car checked out by a professional if only to confirm which category of write off the sisters car is in.

the_syco

sillysocks wrote: »

What is he looking for?

He needs to double check that his insurance allows him to drive other cars. 90% of them will allow it, but you don't want to find out the hard way that he's not covered, and was driving without insurance!

Stheno

sillysocks wrote: »

What is he looking for? He's insured 3rd party, and as the accident was the other persons fault (as admitted) I didn't think there would be any issue there?

Your brothers policy will be the one that will be claimed off if he has open drive.

Not sure how it works if he does enot have open drive I think he would then be fully liable as you've no valid policy to claim under?

Profiler

sillysocks wrote: »

What is he looking for? He's insured 3rd party, and as the accident was the other persons fault (as admitted) I didn't think there would be any issue there?

There shouldn't be an issue, there are two parts to this.

There is a liability for the accident which from what you say rests 100% with the other party. In that regard as your sister is the owner then she is entitled to be reimbursed for her loss/damage.

The brothers coverage while not irrelevant is really only a side issue and as long as his own policy is valid and in order there shouldn't be a problem.

sillysocks

Stheno wrote: »

Your brothers policy will be the one that will be claimed off if he has open drive.

Not sure how it works if he does enot have open drive I think he would then be fully liable as you've no valid policy to claim under?

But if the other party is admitting liability surely there's no claim on my brothers policy?

Profiler wrote: »

There shouldn't be an issue, there are two parts to this.

There is a liability for the accident which from what you say rests 100% with the other party. In that regard as your sister is the owner then she is entitled to be reimbursed for her loss/damage.

The brothers coverage while not irrelevant is really only a side issue and as long as his own policy is valid and in order there shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks.... he apparently checked earlier and is definitely covered.

Profiler

Stheno wrote: »

Your brothers policy will be the one that will be claimed off if he has open drive.

Not sure how it works if he does enot have open drive I think he would then be fully liable as you've no valid policy to claim under?

No, that is not the case.

The brother can only claim against his own policy if he has an insurable interest in the vehicle in question. As he dosen't own the car then he is not at a loss when it is damaged.

The driver who is at fault is obliged to reimburse the owner for loss/damage, regardless of who was driving the car at the time.

If the brother has D.O.C. cover and had consent to drive the vehicle then it's fine, however even if he didn't the owner of the car will still be able to claim against the driver at fault.

Stheno

Profiler wrote: »

No, that is not the case.

The brother can only claim against his own policy if he has an insurable interest in the vehicle in question. As he dosen't own the car then he is not at a loss when it is damaged.

The driver who is at fault is obliged to reimburse the owner for loss/damage, regardless of who was driving the car at the time.

If the brother has D.O.C. cover and had consent to drive the vehicle then it's fine, however even if he didn't the owner of the car will still be able to claim against the driver at fault.

But can the other partys insurance claim that the brother was driving uninsured then the other party could potentially use that.

Trotter

Stheno wrote: »

But can the other partys insurance claim that the brother was driving uninsured then the other party could potentially use that.

The op did say though that

his insurance covers him 3rd party on my sisters car

so its not an issue seemingly.

Our man in Havana

Even if he had no insurance, the other insurance would still have to pay regardless.

oldyouth

The brother's DOC extension is for 3rd party only and will not cover him for damage to his sister's car. The options are to agree a private settlement with the TP or claim against his insurance (preferable route)

antodeco

oldyouth wrote: »

The brother's DOC extension is for 3rd party only and will not cover him for damage to his sister's car. The options are to agree a private settlement with the TP or claim against his insurance (preferable route)

Why would he have to claim through his own insurance?? The 3rd party admitted liability, so there is zero onus on the brother and OP to pay anything.

Its like saying, if I was brought out for a meal from work, and my partner was allowed come along. Work were paying for it all (they agreed to this). Then, because my partner ate something, they have to pay for it themselves, because they dont actually work for the employer. Once somebody admits that it was there fault (paying) then there is no onus on anybody but that person.

mickdw

I would settle this claim without insurance if possible for the following reason.
It's a cheap car,
Insurance will write it off giving a smallish payout.
If insurance involved, there will be an open claim against brothers policy until it's settled and this can affect renewal.

sillysocks

I'm fairly happy that brothers insurance won't be involved with the payout, the other party is fully admitting liability. My brothers policy does cover him so he wasnt driving uninsured.

The average sale price seems to be around 1,700 online. Will have to just wait and see what the other party says today, it's either our garage fix it or insurance as we're not willing for her to let her friends garage fix it.

Sister needs to talk to her insurance comp today, is there any issue with telling them it may be settled outside insurance?

Jimdagym

sillysocks wrote: »

I'm fairly happy that brothers insurance won't be involved with the payout, the other party is fully admitting liability. My brothers policy does cover him so he wasnt driving uninsured.

The average sale price seems to be around 1,700 online. Will have to just wait and see what the other party says today, it's either our garage fix it or insurance as we're not willing for her to let her friends garage fix it.

Sister needs to talk to her insurance comp today, is there any issue with telling them it may be settled outside insurance?

Is your sisters brother you by any chance?

sillysocks

Jimdagym wrote: »

Is your sisters brother you by any chance?

No! Thankfully I wasn't involved at all, but as little as I know about insurance they're even more clueless so I'm trying to help them sort it out. I suppose it does sound a bit like a "I have a friend who...." thread!

oldyouth

antodeco wrote: »

Why would he have to claim through his own insurance?? The 3rd party admitted liability, so there is zero onus on the brother and OP to pay anything.

Its like saying, if I was brought out for a meal from work, and my partner was allowed come along. Work were paying for it all (they agreed to this). Then, because my partner ate something, they have to pay for it themselves, because they dont actually work for the employer. Once somebody admits that it was there fault (paying) then there is no onus on anybody but that person.

Apologies, but when I said his insurance, I intended it as the TP. You are right, of course

Del2005

sillysocks wrote: »

But if the other party is admitting liability surely there's no claim on my brothers policy?

The OP's brother will have to tell his insurance company anyway. You need to inform your insurance company of any claims you make, not just on your own policy.

The Sister and Brothers policies won't be affected, unless they have a few more no fault crashes, as the other driver admitted liability.

OP, If the car is on sites for €1700, then it's really worth about €1400-1500. With €1600 quids worth of damage it'll be written off by the insurance company as beyond economical repair, IIRC economical repair is about 1/3 of book price.

Your best option is the try and get as near to the book value off the other party, sell the car for scrap and buy a new car. Putting €1600 into a car worth less is crazy. If you go insurance you'll have a lot of hassle to get near book value and then they'll take off the scrap value.

antodeco

The 3rd partys insurer will go for the cheapest option! If theres €1600 cost to repair and BER is €1500 you will get €1500. I had an incident in my car and the cost of the repair was a couple of thousand. The price of the car to buy as is 2nd hand was €75 more. IT was repaired, as they didnt want to pay the extra €75

HellFireClub

mickdw wrote: »

I would settle this claim without insurance if possible for the following reason.
It's a cheap car,
Insurance will write it off giving a smallish payout.
If insurance involved, there will be an open claim against brothers policy until it's settled and this can affect renewal.

There could well be an advisory record of this crash anyway against the brother, regardless of how the matter gets settled. I've seen situations where someone has been involved in a crash, the insurance company were informed, the matter was settled between the parties, no insurance payout, and the person who was in no way responsible, still had information retained in relation to the fact that they had been a party to a crash.

Insurance companies in this country are scúmbags, they are allowed make up the rules as they go along, move the goal posts here there and everywhere.

sillysocks

Thanks all for your help, they spoke with the third party again earlier and she now wants to go through insurance, so we've rung all three insurance companies and are waiting on the third parties insurance to come back to us as they will be the company claimed against.

My sisters insurance advised going direct to other persons company was best because otherwise my sister would have to pay the excess on her own policy which seems a bit unfair! Anyway other insurance company was helpful so fingers crossed it'll get sorted quickly.