Disney buys Lucasfilm! New movie for 2015!!

thegreengoblin

EnterNow wrote: »

But sure if thats the case, I could write a few books and call them canon. Like Star Trek, which is filled with non canon novels etc, the EU of Star Wars is largely non canon in my mind. Its mostly fan written non canon. Yes they might all tie in together at some point, & obey each others directions & precedents, but that doesn't make them canon. Unless something was officially endorsed by Lucas, or is officially endorsed now by Disney, its not canon

But the likes of Del Rey, Dark Horse, etc, were licensed to publish these books and comics so that would surely make them part of the overall official Star Wars universe i.e. canon.

VinLieger

EnterNow wrote: »

But sure if thats the case, I could write a few books and call them canon. Like Star Trek, which is filled with non canon novels etc, the EU of Star Wars is largely non canon in my mind. Its mostly fan written non canon. Yes they might all tie in together at some point, & obey each others directions & precedents, but that doesn't make them canon. Unless something was officially endorsed by Lucas, or is officially endorsed now by Disney, its not canon

But surely all the EU is officially endorsed by Lucas and or now Disney as it couldnt have been sold otherwise, sure lucas or some lackey always had to sign off on the plot points for new books or comics

Myrddin

thegreengoblin wrote: »

But the likes of Del Rey, Dark Horse, etc, were licensed to publish these books and comics so that would surely make them part of the overall official Star Wars universe i.e. canon.

VinLieger wrote: »

But surely all the EU is officially endorsed by Lucas and or now Disney as it couldnt have been sold otherwise, sure lucas or some lackey always had to sign off on the plot points for new books or comics

Endorsed was probably the wrong word for me to choose. If its fan written & not an an actual Lucas/Disney release, it can not be considered canon unless expressly said so by Lucas/Disney. Same goes for Star Trek, Stargate, Aliens, Predator, or any established canon. All those examples are filled with non canon fan written expanded universe stuff

ziedth

VinLieger wrote: »

IF they go down the route of not sticking to the current EU canon i will not be watching this, i have around 80 EU novels at home and if their plots and stories are thrown in the bin i will be supremely pissed

I would be VERY surprised if the Any of the extended universe is addressed. The way I always view these things is much like Buffy/Angel when it finished. As far as I'm concerned in Angel they all died. No amount of Whedon produced comics is going to tell me otherwise until if a new season/film is made.

Now, the main point about SW is that I would say the vast majority of fans (even big fans like me) wouldn't have read the EU so it's easier to pander to us than keep the others happy by keeping it cannon.and spending a third of the movie getting 80% if not more of your target audience up to speed.

Mark my words mate the best your going to get is a nod here and there

thegreengoblin

ziedth wrote: »

I would be VERY surprised if the Any of the extended universe is addressed. The way I always view these things is much like Buffy/Angel when it finished. As far as I'm concerned in Angel they all died. No amount of Whedon produced comics is going to tell me otherwise until if a new season/film is made.

Now, the main point about SW is that I would say the vast majority of fans (even big fans like me) wouldn't have read the EU so it's easier to pander to us than keep the others happy by keeping it cannon.and spending a third of the movie getting 80% if not more of your target audience up to speed.

Mark my words mate the best your going to get is a nod here and there

Good point. Even though I've said on here that the idea of the many books and stories I've read being consigned to non-continuity is a bit of a tough one to take, the reality is that these films will have to start pretty much from scratch. And I really want to go into the cinema knowing that what I'm about to see is a brand new SW story.

thegreengoblin

EnterNow wrote: »

Endorsed was probably the wrong word for me to choose. If its fan written & not an an actual Lucas/Disney release, it can not be considered canon unless expressly said so by Lucas/Disney. Same goes for Star Trek, Stargate, Aliens, Predator, or any established canon. All those examples are filled with non canon fan written expanded universe stuff

But the thing is the vast majority of those novels and comics are not fan-written...the authors were all given a steer or a nudge in a certain direction before they started writing. So I don't think you can really compare SW with the likes of Star Trek, Aliens, etc.

Myrddin

thegreengoblin wrote: »

But the thing is the vast majority of those novels and comics are not fan-written...the authors were all given a steer or a nudge in a certain direction before they started writing. So I don't think you can really compare SW with the likes of Star Trek, Aliens, etc.

Fan written, author written, again, if it wasn't Lucas/Disney & unless they say otherwise, its not canon. Its exactly the same as Star Wars & Aliens etc, both have pretty expansive EU novels etc which are not considered canon.

Think about it, if I decide to write a Star Wars novel thats set after Episode 6...Disney would have to take into account what I've written & make a film around boundaries that I've set - its just not gonna happen.

thegreengoblin

EnterNow wrote: »

Fan written, author written, again, if it wasn't Lucas/Disney & unless they say otherwise, its not canon. Its exactly the same as Star Wars & Aliens etc, both have pretty expansive EU novels etc which are not considered canon.

Think about it, if I decide to write a Star Wars novel thats set after Episode 6...Disney would have to take into account what I've written & make a film around boundaries that I've set - its just not gonna happen.

I think we're getting out lightsabers crossed here somewhat!
Are you saying that the books officially released by Del Rey over the years (which included the New Jedi Order series, Heir To The Empire) and the Dark Horse comics were never to be considered as canon/continuity?

Myrddin

thegreengoblin wrote: »

I think we're getting out lightsabers crossed here somewhat!
Are you saying that the books officially released by Del Rey over the years (which included the New Jedi Order series, Heir To The Empire) and the Dark Horse comics were never to be considered as canon/continuity?

Is it stated specifically somewhere that they are official canon?

thegreengoblin

EnterNow wrote: »

Is it stated specifically somewhere that they are official canon?

The way I look at it is this.

The movies are the purest version of canon and there are obviously some people who have only ever seen the movies and have no interest in reading the novels or comics. Therefore you can't go officially beyond that and that's what I imagine Disney/Lucasfilm will take their starting point from and good luck to them.

But then there are fans who were eager to find out what happened after the movies or before or in between...and those fans, myself included, invested heavily in this Expanded Universe of books and comics. Seeing as they were all officially licensed and endorsed by Lucasfilm, it was only natural to assume that these stories were to be taken as part of the official SW universe, even though George Lucas himself had next to nothing to do with it all.

Now, with a new era on the way, hearing that all of those stories may be more or less wiped away after investing so much time and money into them, I think it's entirely understandable that some fans may be a little put out by that. I'm personally not too bothered about it because if that's the price we pay for getting new Star Wars films out there I'm all for it. And I've also said earlier in this thread that I wouldn't want to see the new films as adaptations of the novels e.g. the Thrawn trilogy.

I think surely it's best to say that canon is the movies themselves and anything else may or may not be part of overall continuity. If someone isn't sure about it they can look it up and find out.

ziedth

Let's say they start off the film 30 years after ROTJ (would be about right given ages of cast) how much of an impact would the EU have? Like have main characters been killed off or the whole universe gone to ****?

If it's only small things that could be explained away in a montage or something at the start then I'd be all for it.

VinLieger

ziedth wrote: »

Let's say they start off the film 30 years after ROTJ (would be about right given ages of cast) how much of an impact would the EU have? Like have main characters been killed off or the whole universe gone to ****?

If it's only small things that could be explained away in a montage or something at the start then I'd be all for it.

Yes all those things happened, there was a MASSIVE extra galactic invasion that ****ed the entire galaxy onto its head, several main characters died most notably

Chewbacca but also 2 of Han and Leias 3 kids one of which ended up killing the other, as well as Lukes wife Mara Jade

And thats only the major characters, theres a whole host of other characters that i adore that will potentially just not exist in the future Star Wars universe and that is unforgiveable to me

ziedth

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes all those things happened, there was a MASSIVE extra galactic invasion that ****ed the entire galaxy onto its head, several main characters died most notably

Chewbacca but also 2 of Han and Leias 3 kids one of which ended up killing the other, as well as Lukes wife Mara Jade

And thats only the major characters, theres a whole host of other characters that i adore that will potentially just not exist in the future Star Wars universe and that is unforgiveable to me

Unless the new films are based on the EU and what you spoilered above happens on screen then I just can't see it. FWIW I can fully understand your reaction. There are films that have simply ignored sequels and prequels off the top of my head these include Rocky, Jaws, Highlander and Superman. These wrecked my head and they didn't cost me anything except my time.

VinLieger

ziedth wrote: »

Unless the new films are based on the EU and what you spoilered above happens on screen then I just can't see it. FWIW I can fully understand your reaction. There are films that have simply ignored sequels and prequels off the top of my head these include Rocky, Jaws, Highlander and Superman. These wrecked my head and they didn't cost me anything except my time.

Thats the worry i have in that all those major events happened 25 years after ROTJ so if they are bringing back original cast they have to be trying to slot into that 25+ timeframe and as you say unless they show it all on screen, which is doubtful, it will all just be scrapped and we will have 2 seperate canon universes. Now they achieved this well with Star Trek but that was with the black hole and alternate timeline stuff which i really cannot see happening here

Myrddin

VinLieger wrote: »

unless they show it all on screen, which is doubtful, it will all just be scrapped and we will have 2 seperate canon universes

Just reading up on this EU canonicity on Wikipedia. Its stupidly overly-complex really.

The Holocron is an internal database maintained by Lucas Licensing for the express purpose of trying to maintain continuity within all licensed products.[8] The Holocron was originally sorted into four levels of canon, reflecting LFL's canon and continuity policies: G, C, S, and N. A fifth level, T, was recently instituted and comprises the CGI series Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the currently untitled live action Star Wars television series which has yet to begin any form of production. See the article on Star Wars canon for greater detail.

G (George Lucas) canon is absolute canon. This category includes the final releases of the six films, the novelizations of the films, the radio dramas based on the films, the film scripts, and any material found in any other source (published or not) that comes directly from George Lucas himself. G canon outranks all other forms of canon.

T (Television) canon, which currently comprises Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the as yet unaired live action Star Wars TV series. This level of canon is considered to take precedence over C canon (see below), possibly due to the fact that George Lucas is directly involved with these shows as executive producer, and in the case of The Clone Wars is also on the writing team. This level ignores the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars series, though the CGI series derives many moments from that one.

C (continuity) canon refers to the main body of EU work, and is the next most authoritative level of canon. All material published under the Star Wars label that doesn't fall into either G, T, S, or N canon is C canon and is considered authoritative as long as it isn't contradicted by G or T canon.

S (secondary) canon refers to older, less accurate, or less coherent EU works, which would not ordinarily fit in the main continuity of G and C canon. For example, this includes the popular online roleplaying game Star Wars Galaxies, and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

N continuity material is also known as "non-canon" or "non-continuity" material. What-if stories (such as those published under the Infinities label) and anything else that cannot at all fit into continuity is placed into this category. "N-continuity" is not considered canon.

I'd see G & T as the same canon bracket, both take precedence over anything else. C is the EU itself. S & N in my head would be properly non canon, by way of being older/obsolete/errors or by way of just being intentionally non canon. It seems Lucas himself maintained this Tree of Canon, therefore putting merit in the C bracket {EU} as being at least recognised by him & therefore at least partly canon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Expanded_Universe#Official_levels_of_canon

VinLieger

EnterNow wrote: »

Just reading up on this EU canonicity on Wikipedia. Its stupidly overly-complex really.



I'd see G & T as the same canon bracket, both take precedence over anything else. C is the EU itself. S & N in my head would be properly non canon, by way of being older/obsolete/errors or by way of just being intentionally non canon. It seems Lucas himself maintained this Tree of Canon, therefore putting merit in the C bracket {EU} as being at least recognised by him & therefore at least partly canon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Expanded_Universe#Official_levels_of_canon

Exactly the way it was setup does scream the constant complaint of the base of fans that they will change or adjust whatever they want if they reckon they can squeeze a few more dollars out of it

salacious crumb

http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2013/0819/468961-mcgregor-set-for-star-wars-return/

bilston

salacious crumb wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2013/0819/468961-mcgregor-set-for-star-wars-return/

The only problem with that is that Alec Guinness appears as Obi Wans ghost in ESB and ROTJ so how do they explain his ghost getting younger?!

I'm surprised there hasn't been more info coming through about the cast and the film in general given it's less than two years until its release now. Presumably production will have to start soon.

salacious crumb

Perhaps they'll just dye his hair and beard white and he'll portray the spirit of the older Obi Wan.... who knows? :pac:

karaokeman

I really don't know whether or not I should be believing all these rumours unless they are coming from a very reliable source. There were rumours of Darth Vader coming back to life, then there was Samuel Jackson, (who wanted to return as a living Mace Windu) and just the other week the Emperor.

Some of these actors would just love to be in another Star Wars film.

That said Carrie Fisher talked about taking a program to lose weight, so I would think she will be returning, if they get her, they'd have to get Mark Hamill.

Ridiculous Lucasfilm still don't seem to be announcing anything concrete.

ads20101

karaokeman wrote: »

Some of these actors would just love to be in another Star Wars film.

That said Carrie Fisher talked about taking a program to lose weight, so I would think she will be returning, if they get her, they'd have to get Mark Hamill.

Ridiculous Lucasfilm still don't seem to be announcing anything concrete.

But Disney know that there is a massive frenzy for info and rumours. I'm sure they are happy to know that people like us are discussing potentional story plots.

JustAddWater

bilston wrote: »

The only problem with that is that Alec Guinness appears as Obi Wans ghost in ESB and ROTJ so how do they explain his ghost getting younger?!

I'm surprised there hasn't been more info coming through about the cast and the film in general given it's less than two years until its release now. Presumably production will have to start soon.

They'll CGI him in any new re-resleases :P

Myrddin

Could McGregor be used in flashback scenes maybe? Granted flashbacks would be a bit of a departure from the usual Star Wars method, but hey, new owners now etc

karaokeman

EnterNow wrote: »

Could McGregor be used in flashback scenes maybe? Granted flashbacks would be a bit of a departure from the usual Star Wars method, but hey, new owners now etc

But it's still Lucas' vision, he did write the story treatments. Story wise I actually had a random thought today about the plot but I was thinking it might be interesting if the trilogy takes a sort of Cold War style approach, with possibly less actual fighting and more rhetorical gameplay. It could fit the theme of the movies, which Lucas has long stated would be moral problems and the distinguishing right from wrong. Just an idea, could be interesting.

Myrddin

karaokeman wrote: »

But it's still Lucas' vision, he did write the story treatments.

It's Disney's baby now though, & if McGregor were to come back as Kenobi, it could either be one of two things:

1) The ghost Jedi thing - but as mentioned earlier, how would they explain his ghost being the younger Kenobi, as opposed to the Alec Guinness version it already appeared as... Maybe they won't bother explaining it, & just do it?

2) Flashback type scenes, where the story can revert back to anything between episode 1 & 4 to show Kenobi in previously untold story/scenes etc

ziedth

I reckon if he was to come back (which I'd like) they will just age him and make him the "ghost" did anyone really care when Dumbeldore (or however you spell it) changed mid way through harRy Potter.

They are definitely stringing it out as long as they can. I fully expect quite allot of them back for the first one at least.

karaokeman

EnterNow wrote: »

It's Disney's baby now though

I'm still interested to see what creative powers this title as "creative consultant" gives Lucas. I've read he attends story meetings, so presumably he has some say in how the films are told. I do think he will be involved to some extent, I'd say the movies will be mostly directed by Abrams but I'd say he will be asked for advice every now and then. Not to the extent it will be ruined, I'd imagine Lucas will be as involved as he was with TESB at most.

Myrddin

karaokeman wrote: »

I'm still interested to see what creative powers this title as "creative consultant" gives Lucas. I've read he attends story meetings, so presumably he has some say in how the films are told. I do think he will be involved to some extent, I'd say the movies will be mostly directed by Abrams but I'd say he will be asked for advice every now and then. Not to the extent it will be ruined, I'd imagine Lucas will be as involved as he was with TESB at most.

I'd say he's more the 'canon-consultant'. As in, "Hi Gerogre, we don't know the ins & outs of the canon Universe as much as you, so this idea we have here, will that fit in with what you have established without too much upset?"

the_monkey

They can do wonders with makeup, the fact that he will be a ghost will make it easier, they will stick a beard on him and dye his hair, as well as some arsing about with CGI.

We won't even recognise him as McGregor, - either way makes it interesting, they might even get back the lad who played Anakin, since they allready stuck him in ROTJ - which I thought was cool even though a lot of hard core fans hated it, for me it connected the films more...

Myrddin

the_monkey wrote: »

They can do wonders with makeup, the fact that he will be a ghost will make it easier, they will stick a beard on him and dye his hair, as well as some arsing about with CGI.

We won't even recognise him as McGregor,

True, that's prob the most likely thing they'll do...& the easiest to explain away. Btw I wonder if Christensen will return as the ghost of Anakin