Strauss named in Ireland squad

boksmashoffice · 27-10-2012 9:19pm #1

How do you Irish rugby fans feel about a South African born rugby player playing for Ireland. As a South African i am getting used to the Brits poaching our talent. My understanding is there are potentially 2 more who could be turning out in the future. Quinn Roux (leinster) and CJ Stander (Munster)

I am uneasy with Strauss on the basis that he is not a man who has been brought up in the Irish system. Does he have any affinity to the Irish Jersey? Well I guess there will be a Greys college re union when he packs down against Strauss on November the 10th. There will probably be a few Greys college boys playing at the Aviva. I am sad on of them will be playing for Ireland.

My take is anyone who plays school boy rugby for a tier 1 nation has made their bed and that's it. This IRB have to step in and sort this out.

What do others think?

GerM · 27-10-2012 9:21pm

A South African captained Ireland in a world cup before. Some people won't be too happy about it but they'll get over it. He's not a mercenary. He's kept his head down and earned his call up. If there's an Irish player with the same form and ability, I'd rather see them selected. Until then, all the best to the lad.

RoundBox11 · 27-10-2012 9:21pm

So will Tendai Mtawarira be playing I wonder...

boksmashoffice · 27-10-2012 9:23pm

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Tendai Mtawarira...

I have issues with Beast and Mujati playing for the boks. Mujati more because of Daddy and his connections to the Zim elite. (its nothing do to with race)

boksmashoffice · 27-10-2012 9:26pm

GerM wrote: »

A South African captained Ireland in a world cup before. Some people won't be too happy about it but they'll get over it. He's not a mercenary. He's kept his head down and earned his call up. If there's an Irish player with the same form and ability, I'd rather see them selected. Until then, all the best to the lad.

Cronin?

Hagz · 27-10-2012 9:27pm

It's just one of those things where people would obviously like to see an Irish person get the shirt, but at the same time, if the laws allow it then we can't refuse to utilise it while the other nations do.

RoundBox11 · 27-10-2012 9:29pm

boksmashoffice wrote: »

I have issues with Beast and Mujati playing for the boks. Mujati more because of Daddy and his connections to the Zim elite. (its nothing do to with race)

Well Mtawarira qualified for SA the exact same way Strauss did for us so i don't south africans have the right to complain too much.

I'm not overly keen on it tbh. I'd rather if it was 5 years to be able to represent another country.

Weve had IQ players opt to play for other countries because of residency too (most notably Stephen Moore) so it affects all countries.

boksmashoffice · 27-10-2012 9:32pm

Personally I would Play BJ Botha ahead of Beast. I was disappointed with beast being picked especially after the who passport saga. He was schooled in Zimbabwe and should be representing Zim. That's my take.

irishbucsfan · 27-10-2012 9:33pm

It's been discussed on this forum before.

My opinion is that naturalisation is fine but 3 years is too short.

Btw, Strauss is probably not going to start because there's no South African in the world capable of beating out Rory Best

boksmashoffice · 27-10-2012 9:34pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's been discussed on this forum before.

My opinion is that naturalisation is fine but 3 years is too short.

Btw, Strauss is probably not going to start because there's no South African in the world capable of beating out Rory Best

Rory is simply the best :P
Bizzy may have a say on that.

GerM · 27-10-2012 9:35pm

boksmashoffice wrote: »

Cronin?

Those that rate Cronin ahead of Strauss are few and far between. When it comes to the business end of the HEC, there's only one guy who gets the nod.

thomond2006 · 27-10-2012 9:38pm

I have no problem with uncapped foreigners playing for Ireland who have played here for 4-5 years and it so happens they are eligible and want to play for their adopted country. Had Warwick been eligible when he was on the top of his game with Munster around 2009-2010 I would have welcomed him, he was in Ireland about 5-6 years at that stage and was married to an Irish woman with Irish born children.

However I can't stand the project player system. The fact that the IRFU are actively endorsing foreigners to come over and play for Ireland is wrong in my view. Just because England are happy to pick the Riki Fluteys of this world, that doesn't mean we have to. Foreigners should be brought over in the ilk of Howlett, Elsom or Pienaar - to boost the strength of provinces where they may be a deficit of talent at that time, not play for our bloody national team.

I've nothing against Strauss, if you leave the emotive/nationalistic stuff aside, he's absolutely right to make himself available to maximise what he can get out of the game and play at the highest level of his sport.

At the end of the day, if one 'project player' is playing for Ireland, that I could deal with (eventually!). But in a few years if we have all of Strauss, Stander, Poolman and Payne playing for Ireland, I'll wonder if the Ireland side has turned into some sort of Barbarians outfit. Steven Sykes' "aspirations" made me question what the national team is supposed to be anymore. For god sake, we may as well start calling the Ireland team "The Provincial All-Star XV" if we're going down that road.

Finally, I have to ask myself what are the provincial academies for again?! Developing players to eventually play for Ireland. Let them do their job please IRFU, they are churning out some good youngsters right now.

Fireball07 · 27-10-2012 9:40pm

I pretty much agree 100% with Thomond.

Stheno · 27-10-2012 9:44pm

Did he become eligible as he has played in Ireland for a period of time?

danthefan · 27-10-2012 9:45pm

boksmashoffice wrote: »

Personally I would Play BJ Botha ahead of Beast. I was disappointed with beast being picked especially after the who passport saga. He was schooled in Zimbabwe and should be representing Zim. That's my take.

They don't play the same position.

boksmashoffice · 27-10-2012 9:46pm

He can play both sides and their are a few being churned out in the Free state by Oz and naka

thomond2006 · 27-10-2012 9:47pm

Stheno wrote: »

Did he become eligible as he has played in Ireland for a period of time?

Yes, he arrived in Ireland in Oct/Nov 2009. Once you spend three consecutive years in a country and you aren't capped by another country, you become eligible.

You then have to stay in that country until you are capped, say if Strauss didn't play for Ireland this season and then left the country to play elsewhere, he would forfeit his eligiblity.

However once you are capped, you are eligible no matter where you play (a la Riki Flutey pissing off to France yet still wanting to play for his beloved England *puke*). Of course you are also tied to that national team for the rest of your career.

irishbucsfan · 27-10-2012 9:50pm

BJB hasn't played Loosehead in 5 years!

danthefan · 27-10-2012 9:53pm

boksmashoffice wrote: »

He can play both sides and their are a few being churned out in the Free state by Oz and naka

Don't think he's started a game at LH since he's been in Ireland.

Stheno · 27-10-2012 9:57pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Yes, he arrived in Ireland in Oct/Nov 2009. Once you spend three consecutive years in a country and you aren't capped by another country, you become eligible.

You then have to stay in that country until you are capped, say if Strauss didn't play for Ireland this season and then left the country to play elsewhere, he would forfeit his eligiblity.

However once you are capped, you are eligible no matter where you play (a la Riki Flutey pissing off to France yet still wanting to play for his beloved England *puke*). Of course you are also tied to that national team for the rest of your career.

Thanks. Your last sentence is what has Isa Nacewa tied to Fiji iirc?

thomond2006 · 27-10-2012 9:58pm

Stheno wrote: »

Thanks. Your last sentence is what has Isa Nacewa tied to Fiji iirc?

Yes

irishbucsfan · 27-10-2012 10:01pm

If South Africa are really stuck for loose heads, don't worry. We've got Wian Du Preez and Heinke Van Der Merwe here contracted to us and waiting for you, all you have to do in return is offer Declan Kidney a contract.

errlloyd · 27-10-2012 10:19pm

Its hard to decide when someone is Irish. To me Isa is more Irish than Strauss, not just because he has been here longer, but because he has the wife and kids here. I get the impression he might live here for a while once he retires. To me loving the country is important, you actually have to want to play for that nation.

I defo think Andy Ward was a good shout. Like he's still here, helping with the GAA now I think! He's a textbook naturalisation.

totallegend · 28-10-2012 1:40am

Tom Court, Isaac Boss, the Easterbys, Andy Ward, Dion O'Cuinneagain, Kevin Maggs, Rob Henderson, etc etc.

Plenty of guys of various and dubious degrees of Irishness have played for the national team with distinction over the years. Having an Irish granny whom you may or may not ever have met does not, in my book, make you a legitimate Irishman.

Michael Bent is arriving next week; indications are that if he's not totally useless, he'll be fast-tracked into the national setup. Now, will we have the same degree of hand-wringing and soul-searching about him? Does his Irish passport make him less of a mercenary than Strauss, who has at least shown a level of commitment to life in Ireland? If Strauss becomes a citizen, does that change things?

My point is that being Irish is not a black or white issue; there's a whole spectrum of guys out there playing for Ireland and Strauss is nothing new on that front. If people want to take a principled stand on this, fine, but let's try to be consistent and maybe a bit pragmatic about it.

Personally, I think it's fine. Strauss has come over here and made a go of it. When he arrived, there was no guarantee he'd make the Leinster team let alone Ireland. He had a ropey introduction to Irish sporting life spending most of his first season outside the Leinster 23 but he stuck with it. Anyone who has watched him on the pitch could not doubt his commitment to Leinster and I think he'll do us proud in a green jersey too.

Well done Richardt.

GerM · 28-10-2012 1:55am

Good post, TL. Someone like Tom Court was playing for the Wolfhounds before he even appeared for Ulster just because of a coincidence of ancestry where his grandmother came from this island. I don't know how anyone would consider him more deserving of a place than Strauss who has lived and played here for years.

boksmashoffice · 28-10-2012 9:04am

There are so many south Africans who have moved away from home. In the future they will be players who have south African surnames playing for Australia, NZ, Eng, Ire due to their kids being born in them countries. I have no issues with that. I just think that tier 1 nations should be producing their own players. Again good luck to the Old Greys college boys. His name will appear on the honors board but with Ireland in brackets

irishbucsfan · 28-10-2012 9:09am

I agree that tier 1 nations should be producing their own players. And hopefully some day South Africa won't have to rely on Zimbabwe for front row players.

ironingbored · 28-10-2012 9:27am

Absolutely no problem with Strauss playing for Ireland if he is in the top two players in his position and is legitimately qualified.

Are you telling me those complaining didn't shout for Houghton, Sheedy, Aldridge, Townsend, McCarthy et al in '90 and '94?

In today's world, being Irish is not the same as fifty years ago. How soon before we have a Gryzbowski on the wing or a Wozniak kicking our goals?

Strauss is paying his taxes here for the last three years (Mr. Wallace in the Dail anyone?) so good luck to him.

danthefan · 28-10-2012 9:29am

I don't see why Ireland should put themselves above the rules everyone else plays by (and this goes back to us liking to look down our noses at other countries, something I've mentioned before), Strauss is IQ and good enough to be picked, so he has been.

RoundBox11 · 28-10-2012 12:03pm

boksmashoffice wrote: »

There are so many south Africans who have moved away from home. In the future they will be players who have south African surnames playing for Australia, NZ, Eng, Ire due to their kids being born in them countries. I have no issues with that. I just think that tier 1 nations should be producing their own players. Again good luck to the Old Greys college boys. His name will appear on the honors board but with Ireland in brackets

Well, to be fair you could say it's the other way around in the first place...

boksmashoffice · 28-10-2012 12:12pm

Well i guess the Irish have no issues. He is paying his taxes like all of are (mr wallace take note). I am sure a few of the boks will exchange pleasantries on the pitch with Strauss. I look forward to the banter on nov 10. I will be making tongue in cheek comments to my Irish mates. I am sure they will rib me for the beast. anyone else going to the match?

Big Nelly · 28-10-2012 10:09pm

I think it is great, pity we couldnt get Isa who has put roots down in Ireland, has his kids here and says he would never leave unless he has to with the new rules.

Strauss has been great for Leinster and I think he will give great back up for Best in Ireland squad. Cronin needs to step up for both Leinster and Ireland. Bit of competition is never bad.

I wouldn't like to see a squad full of project players but one or two is grand for me.

Strauss named in Ireland squad

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