Should parents be allowed take children out of school for holidays?

Hitchens

EDUCATION MINISTER RUAIRÍ Quinn has said it is critical that the trend of parents taking children out of school for holidays is stopped.
The comments, reported by the Irish Daily Mail today, come as the truancy watchdog revealed that the average primary school pupil misses 11 out of 183 days.


They're running a poll on the subject here:http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-children-school-holidays-652089-Oct2012/


Why would anyone want to disrupt their children's education for such a frivolous reason?

The King of Moo

I think they should have the freedom to choose, but also the cop on to want to keep their kids in school as much as possible.

Bipolar Joe

183 days :eek::eek: !! That's a fairly crazy high number right there.

I don't want to say it should be a law thing, but growing up to not be an idiot is pretty important.

Jaxxy

Travel and experiencing different cultures doesn't necessarily have to be frivolous.

My parents took my brother and I travelling a couple of times during our school years and we both did very well. I'm thankful that they did too.

You can't learn everything in a classroom.

Max Power

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

183 days :eek::eek: !! That's a fairly crazy high number right there.

Teachers really have some life

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The King of Moo wrote: »

I think they should have the freedom to choose, but also the cop on to want to keep their kids in school as much as possible.

This idea that the classroom is the ONLY place a child learns is ridiculous.

ANd if Ruairi Quinn was in any way serious about the problem, he'd stagger the holidays so that every school in the enitre country isn't off for the same 8 weeks, and do something to solve the demand/supply problem that the travel agents are stuck with.

Lord TSC

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Teachers really have some life

5 posts for this to become a teacher bashing topic :P A new record.

Celly Smunt

if this came to light in 2005 we'd have holidays during the summer holidays subsidised to prevent such an issue.


I miss 2005

I don't really see the fuss, particularly if the parents are already supportive of learning at home

Hitchens

Jaxxy wrote: »

Travel and experiencing different cultures doesn't necessarily have to be frivolous.

My parents took my brother and I travelling a couple of times during our school years and we both did very well. I'm thankful that they did too.

You can't learn everything in a classroom.

True enough, but I bet your parents didn't spend the holiday lying on a beach.

Fuinseog

Hitchens wrote: »

EDUCATION MINISTER RUAIRÍ Quinn has said it is critical that the trend of parents taking children out of school for holidays is stopped.
The comments, reported by the Irish Daily Mail today, come as the truancy watchdog revealed that the average primary school pupil misses 11 out of 183 days.


They're running a poll on the subject here:http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-children-school-holidays-652089-Oct2012/


Why would anyone want to disrupt their children's education for such a frivolous reason?

taking a kid out of class mid term is bad. the kid falls behind and then the irate parent wants to know why they are falling behind.

Bipolar Joe

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

This idea that the classroom is the ONLY place a child learns is ridiculous.

ANd if Ruairi Quinn was in any way serious about the problem, he'd stagger the holidays so that every school in the enitre country isn't off for the same 8 weeks, and do something to solve the demand/supply problem that the travel agents are stuck with.

I don't think that's what he's saying at all. Obviously there's some life skills that you don't get in school (Wish I had my Pop around to teach me them growing up). But I really doubt kids on holidays are going to be taught maths, chemistry, so on while they're building a sand castle.

The King of Moo

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

This idea that the classroom is the ONLY place a child learns is ridiculous.

I'd never suggest that it is, but in two weeks with a few half-decent teachers, a child will learn some useful stuff.

Equally, a holiday isn't necessarily going to be a great learning experience. Two weeks on a beach in Spain surrounded by Britiish and Irish tourists, for example, isn't going to be a great learning experience.

A child missing a week or two of school might not seriously affect their education but if I were a parent I'd still want to ensure that they missed as little as possible, and try to schedule holidays during school-holiday periods.

repsol

If the kids are young and not doing exams,I think a couple of days travel will be more beneficial than sitting in a classroom. I am taking my 6 year old out of school for 3 days before her mid term in February so we can take a family holiday to Orlando

Repsol

Fuinseog

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

This idea that the classroom is the ONLY place a child learns is ridiculous.

ANd if Ruairi Quinn was in any way serious about the problem, he'd stagger the holidays so that every school in the enitre country isn't off for the same 8 weeks, and do something to solve the demand/supply problem that the travel agents are stuck with.

not a bad idea and it works in other countries. there is no reason why Munster schools could have the midterm break a week before of after Leinster schools.

irishgirl19

because all the holidays go up dramatically on the mid term, Easter holidays etc.
I don't think a week Will do them much harm imo

jaffacakesyum

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

I don't think that's what he's saying at all. Obviously there's some life skills that you don't get in school (Wish I had my Pop around to teach me them growing up). But I really doubt kids on holidays are going to be taught maths, chemistry, so on while they're building a sand castle.

No, but they will learn other life skills. Responsibility, communication, learning about new cultures, trying new things. Arguably more important than a lot of stuff kids are taught in school.

As was said in one of the first replies, I think parents should be given the freedom of choice. Parents should make sure children attend school as much as possible, however.

evolving_doors

At the end of the day the Constitution recognises parents as the primary educators, in saying that there is an obligation on parents to have their kids in school for x amount of days... I think it's about 20 before actions are taken..

but with the way things are (cutbacks/manpower etc) I think they're only dealing with extreme cases, as in kids out of school about 70 days or more.. so ya work away folks and take yissr cheap holidays on school days..

only thing though is don;t come looking for me to give Johnny a separate exam either before or after the designated time,

Bipolar Joe

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

No, but they will learn other life skills. Responsibility, communication, learning about new cultures, trying new things. Arguably more important than a lot of stuff kids are taught in school.

As was said in one of the first replies, I think parents should be given the freedom of choice. Parents should make sure children attend school as much as possible, however.

Which was said by King of Moo, which rustled the jimmies of Ikky Poo 2, who I attempted to make understand the meaning of the post, which you quoted. The conversation has come full circle.

LOCKED.

Dangerous Man

I think Quinn just doesn't like the optics of it to be honest.

Jaxxy

Hitchens wrote: »

True enough, but I bet your parents didn't spend the holiday lying on a beach.

No they didn't.

Actually my mother always insisted we bring schoolwork with us. When we got back from the Australia trip I was a month ahead of the class. My folks were all for a "well-rounded" education.

My point basically is a holiday during the school term doesn't have to be detrimental to a child's education, when done the right way of course.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

I don't think that's what he's saying at all. Obviously there's some life skills that you don't get in school (Wish I had my Pop around to teach me them growing up). But I really doubt kids on holidays are going to be taught maths, chemistry, so on while they're building a sand castle.

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'd never suggest that it is, but in two weeks with a few half-decent teachers, a child will learn some useful stuff.

Equally, a holiday isn't necessarily going to be a great learning experience. Two weeks on a beach in Spain surrounded by Britiish and Irish tourists, for example, isn't going to be a great learning experience.

A child missing a week or two of school might not seriously affect their education but if I were a parent I'd still want to ensure that they missed as little as possible, and try to schedule holidays during school-holiday periods.

They're not going to miss out on college places because they spent a week on hols when they were 10, for heaven;s sake.

Also, we're talkign lifeskills here. The stuff you don't learn in a classroom. As well as an introduction to other cultures. Perhaps the parents aren't just louging aroudn on the beaches all week?

As for scheduling holidays in holdiay time, sometimes that's simply not possible due to the expense of it. I'd rather take my kids out of school for a week and show them something they won;t see in a classroom, than have to miss out because we couldn't afford it.

Fuinseog wrote: »

not a bad idea and it works in other countries. there is no reason why Munster schools could have the midterm break a week before of after Leinster schools.

Midterm won't mke much of a difference, but the summer holidays definitely.

byhookorbycrook

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

This idea that the classroom is the ONLY place a child learns is ridiculous.

ANd if Ruairi Quinn was in any way serious about the problem, he'd stagger the holidays so that every school in the enitre country isn't off for the same 8 weeks, and do something to solve the demand/supply problem that the travel agents are stuck with.

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,it was parents who pushed for the standard school year.Do you propose to make Easter/Christmas happen on different dates for diffferent areas??
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056787482

Littlehorny

A guy on over 100k a year trying to preach to people who are trying to give their children a week away for a bit of fun because they have to take a holiday off season to save a few quid and still provide to the best of their abilities for their kids. This guy does realise that most people are on less money and are paying more than ever for everything including all the new taxes and bills that have come in. Quinn can F*** right off!!!

Bipolar Joe

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

They're not going to miss out on college places because they spent a week on hols when they were 10, for heaven;s sake.

Also, we're talkign lifeskills here. The stuff you don't learn in a classroom. As well as an introduction to other cultures. Perhaps the parents aren't just louging aroudn on the beaches all week?

As for scheduling holidays in holdiay time, sometimes that's simply not possible due to the expense of it. I'd rather take my kids out of school for a week and show them something they won;t see in a classroom, than have to miss out because we couldn't afford it.

A week is a sight lot longer than 70 to 187 days. A week or two off to some place nice is all good, but when you're missing out on HALF THE SCHOOL YEAR, that's a problem. I don't think I'd feel good having my imaginary children miss even a full month of schooling.

Bipolar Joe

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

A week is a sight lot longer than 70 to 187 days.

What?

Karen23

Both of my children would be in the top 5 attendants in their schools every year , missing a maximum of 2 or 3 days days and only ever due to illness. This year we took them out for a week to go on holiday because September was half the price of Summer months and it was the only time we could afford. We purposely picked the second week in September because they both got new teachers this year and we wanted them to go in for the first week and get to know the new teachers and get timetables rather than going in the second week when everyone else had settled in.

This report made me feel very guilty for taking them out for the week but it really didn't affect them and both settled straight back in to school. I don't think parents taking children out for holidays is as bad as parents just not bothering to send kids to school most of the year.

Bipolar Joe

bluewolf wrote: »

What?

I said that a week is a sight lot longer than 70 to 187 days.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,it was parents who pushed for the standard school year.Do you propose to make Easter/Christmas happen on different dates for diffferent areas??
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056787482

I'm not sure what you link proves or tries to prove - it refers to neaither parents nor a standard school year.

I also specifically refered to summer holidays. See below. Twice. I'm also talking about holidya periods in the school year, not religious feasts.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Midterm won't mke much of a difference, but the summer holidays definitely.

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

A week is a sight lot longer than 70 to 187 days. A week or two off to some place nice is all good, but when you're missing out on HALF THE SCHOOL YEAR, that's a problem. I don't think I'd feel good having my imaginary children miss even a full month of schooling.

Who's missing out on half the school year...? We're not talking about taking your kids off on 10 weeks hols.

Hitchens

Karen23 wrote: »

I don't think parents taking children out for holidays is as bad as parents just not bothering to send kids to school most of the year.

Of course not, there's no comparison really.

byhookorbycrook

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I also specifically refered to summer holidays. See below. Twice. I'm also talking about holidya periods in the school year, not religious feasts.

.

Holidays during the school year like Christmas and Easter, perchance??Midterms are set by DES and there are very few discretionary days, so no great chance of closing early enough for the summer to make an great difference.

Milk & Honey

The simple way to stop it is to ban the children from school when they get back. 50 days out for a first offence, 100 for a second and so on. If the parents are stuck teaching their children themselves for a few months they wouldn't be so blasé.

Hitchens

Milk & Honey wrote: »

The simple way to stop it is to ban the children from school when they get back. 50 days out for a first offence, 100 for a second and so on. If the parents are stuck teaching their children themselves for a few months they wouldn't be so blasé.

But that would be putting the children at a disadvantage.

iPhone.

I guess they should have an elitist survey amongst the politicians and their ilk who have the luxury of the time off when others are working and the salary to pay for the holidays for themselves and their kids when the kids are expected in school.
Such sickening crap to see the overpaid Minister for Education pontificating on a subject that doesn't affect a huge portion of the population because they can barely afford the weeks groceries never mind a pie in the sky holiday for themselves and the kids!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Holidays during the school year like Christmas and Easter, perchance??Midterms are set by DES and there are very few discretionary days, so no great chance of closing early enough for the summer to make an great difference.

Again, I didn't say what you think I said.

I'm talking about staggering the summer holidays, when families go on holidays. NOT Christmas, NOT Easter, NOT midterm.

And STAGGERING the holdays. Different regions take different periods that overlap, but are not the same. NOT saving a few days through out the year so that the school can break a week early.

Not every school takes the exact same schedule, so there is scope for this to work. And it does work - itd done in a lot of otehr countries and it works fine.

Beyond that, you still haven't come up with any reasonable opposition to the idea. You've just tried to debate points I never brougt up.

edgecutter

Parents deserve to go on holiday and if that means going in September or may to get a good deal then so be it. It's difficult enough and usually children learn things when they are away (the importance of having a second language)

edgecutter

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Teachers really have some life

Seriously mate, if you aren't a teacher you just don't know what they do. It's one of the most difficult jobs out there. Have you seen what young children and teens are like these days. They could **** you off from a height and teachers need to take it in their stride. Plus the fact that most evenings and weekends are taken up with marking books.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

edgecutter wrote: »

Parents deserve to go on holiday and if that means going in September or may to get a good deal then so be it. It's difficult enough and usually children learn things when they are away (the importance of having a second language)

... and then they come straight back into an Irish class!

Milk & Honey

Hitchens wrote: »

But that would be putting the children at a disadvantage.

That is the parents choice!

opinion guy

Karen23 wrote: »

Both of my children would be in the top 5 attendants in their schools every year , missing a maximum of 2 or 3 days days and only ever due to illness. This year we took them out for a week to go on holiday because September was half the price of Summer months and it was the only time we could afford. We purposely picked the second week in September because they both got new teachers this year and we wanted them to go in for the first week and get to know the new teachers and get timetables rather than going in the second week when everyone else had settled in.

This report made me feel very guilty for taking them out for the week but it really didn't affect them and both settled straight back in to school. I don't think parents taking children out for holidays is as bad as parents just not bothering to send kids to school most of the year.

You sound like you are a great parent and have smart kids - you shouldn't feel bad at all.

Parents know their kids best. If they think their kid is better off having a break or a few days off then they know best. Speaking for myself - I got alot of bullying in school.I distinctly remember my folks allowing me pull a few soft sick days from time to time to give me a break (not often - maybe a couple of times a year). I guess they knew I needed it.
Never did my grades any harm.

Ridiculous statements by the minister. Designed to deflect attention away from his own failings and striking teachers methinks :rolleyes:

shruikan2553

If the child hasnt missed many days and its not the week before exams I see no problem with going on holiday for a week or 2. Can always get the child to bring a few books like math to go through when on the plane. If its 1st or 6th class they wont be missing anything and the only years you might not want to do it is 3rd and 5th.

Sometimes the parents might not be able to get time off during the summer

edgecutter

edgecutter wrote: »

It's one of the most difficult jobs out there.

Let's not go overboard

byhookorbycrook

September is the worst possible time to go on holidays.As to sumer holidays, wouldn't work unless you had parents get the same holidays from work. I'm not sure people understand how disruptive it can be for a child to go on holiday and then come back to class. They will have missed work and find it more difficult to settle back in to the class.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

September is the worst possible time to go on holidays.,

Why so?

iPhone.

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

September is the worst possible time to go on holidays.,

Unless you are scrimping and scraping a few bob together and can't afford to pay the premium prices commanded during term time!

byhookorbycrook

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If its 1st or 6th class they wont be missing anything and the only years you might not want to do it is 3rd and 5th.

Am interested to know how you have formed this idea?

byhookorbycrook

iPhone. wrote: »

Unless you are scrimping and scraping a few bob together and can't afford to pay the premium prices commanded during term time!

Children are settling into new classes in Sept. I dislike the idea of holidays during term time, but at least the middle of June, most of the course/concepts have been covered.

Karen23

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If its 1st or 6th class they wont be missing anything and the only years you might not want to do it is 3rd and 5th.

Can I ask why ?

iPhone.

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Children are settling into new classes in Sept. I dislike the idea of holidays during term time, but at least the middle of June, most of the course/concepts have been covered.

And its heading into peak holiday prices!

byhookorbycrook

Yes, it is, but there's nothing worse than a child arriving into the class two weeks late, unsettled, social groups formed, revision of last year's work missed.

As a child, we never had sun holidays,because we couldn't afford them. My mother would send us to school unless we had legs falling off.Was she right-in my opinion ,yes.I see other people place higher premia on other things and that's up to them, but I am giving the educational side as I see it.

Pherekydes

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't really see the fuss, particularly if the parents are already supportive of learning at home

The average is 11 days. Many primary school pupils miss no days. Others miss many more than eleven. I know a kid who missed 105 days last year. His mother and father don't give a fcuk.

People have two months to go on holiday during the summer.