From the beach

Alrite Chief

Bunkers in this country are a joke in general. I don't find tips people or pros give on them one bit helpful at all. Your typical bunker shot tutorial will consist of a fully committed swing taking sand and ball. Sand you say!!? How often do you seriously get to play out of a dry soft sandy bunker? More often than not its caked solid with rain. To the point they are like playing off the top of muck under a cluster of trees for example. Iv really only applied your typical bunker shot a few times. In the Europen was one. The sand is excellent. Proper bunkers. Really fine grain that allows your club to pass under the ball and make enough contact for a really nice controlled escape. Do that in a bunker in most places its in the lap if the gods. You could scuff it 2 feet or fly it over the green into another bunker. We've all been there!

What iv been doing for the last while is plating a chip shot as if its from the edge of the green on the fairway. Nip the ball from the top of the sand as clean as possible. The only risk is catching some sand and laying up short as long as you commit fully.

What your thoughts everyone?

MP62

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Bunkers in this country are a joke in general. I don't find tips people or pros give on them one bit helpful at all. Your typical bunker shot tutorial will consist of a fully committed swing taking sand and ball. Sand you say!!? How often do you seriously get to play out of a dry soft sandy bunker? More often than not its caked solid with rain. To the point they are like playing off the top of muck under a cluster of trees for example. Iv really only applied your typical bunker shot a few times. In the Europen was one. The sand is excellent. Proper bunkers. Really fine grain that allows your club to pass under the ball and make enough contact for a really nice controlled escape. Do that in a bunker in most places its in the lap if the gods. You could scuff it 2 feet or fly it over the green into another bunker. We've all been there!

What iv been doing for the last while is plating a chip shot as if its from the edge of the green on the fairway. Nip the ball from the top of the sand as clean as possible. The only risk is catching some sand and laying up short as long as you commit fully.

What your thoughts everyone?

Making sweeping statements like "bunkers in this country are a joke" only serve to make the author look like an idiot, also FYI you're not meant to make contact with the ball when playing sand shots and playing out of wet sand in bunkers is a skill in itself, if as you describe the bunkers are like hard pan then they should really be out of play and for the most part in my experience clubs have taken this approach and in particular that has been the case this year because the weather was so bad.

Alrite Chief

Eh ok... relax there. What are you the bunker man?

So its a skill in itself? Elaborate so. Or do you prefer to give it the large one calling people idiots on the internet who are only raising a topic that might interest others? If you have nothing constructive to say don't bother posting.

So lets clarify my statement for a start. I mean no disrespect to the bunker men like yourself. The cause is the weather ok. It means bunkers are generally drenched. Iv seen bunkers in play with pools in them in several places. Im not even talking about that. Im on about bunkers in general in a climate like our own. They are thick and heavy with water 80% of the time. The make the typical bunker shot impossible. Iv seen lads go hell for leather at shots from wet bunkers only to smash them out. I was just suggesting another way to play the shot. Like i have found effective for me.

Relaaaaaax.

MP62

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Eh ok... relax there. What are you the bunker man?

So its a skill in itself? Elaborate so. Or do you prefer to give it the large one calling people idiots on the internet who are only raising a topic that might interest others? If you have nothing constructive to say don't bother posting.

So lets clarify my statement for a start. I mean no disrespect to the bunker men like yourself. The cause is the weather ok. It means bunkers are generally drenched. Iv seen bunkers in play with pools in them in several places. Im not even talking about that. Im on about bunkers in general in a climate like our own. They are thick and heavy with water 80% of the time. The make the typical bunker shot impossible. Iv seen lads go hell for leather at shots from wet bunkers only to smash them out. I was just suggesting another way to play the shot. Like i have found effective for me.

Relaaaaaax.

Eh relax your own kaks there boss;-).
I'd discuss it further with you if i thought there was some thing even remotely worth discussing, I'll make two suggestions though firstly work on you bunker play and secondly I'd suggest you play in better courses where the quality of sand may be more to your liking.

Alrite Chief

Name 3 courses with decent bunkers. Just so we are clear on what a decent bunker is.

Rikand

Well, just to try and answer the original posters troubles of hitting out of rock hard wet bunkers. This is how I do it. First how I would address the ball and then what you need to do to actually get out of those kinds of bunkers.

Address the ball like so ::

1. Depending on how close you are to the pin, open the club face on your sandwedge/whatever you play out of the bunker to suit the distance you need to hit it

2. Make sure to plant your feet as best you can in the bunker and grip down the shaft of the club a little. reducing the length of the shaft, should give you a little more control and will counter-act burying your feet into the sand.

3. try to have your weight as even on your feet as you can. Not too much back or forward, right in the middle. you have to keep this right through the shot. I'm a favourite of a pretty decent knee flex throughout this. Almost feels like you're sitting into the shot. get nice and comfortable.




4. Hitting the shot.
- fluffy sand like you see on golf instructional videos - well you can see them anywhere. www.youtube.com

- rock hard wet sand. It's more or less the same idea. Naturally you're not going to get your feet as deep in the sand, so you're not going to grip as far down the club.

You just have to think of it like your playing a flop shot from the side of a green with a decent lie. You don't want to chunk/duff it, so you're going to be trying to play it like it you are just sliding the club right underneath it. - this might require pretty decent clubhead speed but the idea is that you want to catch as little sand as possible and what little bit you're catching, the leading edge of the club is going to cut through it like a knife.

Obviously this requires a little more finesse, but lets face it, with so many bunkers in a bad state of repair thanks to our wonderful climate, you should be able to get plenty of practice to try it out



We have 2 practice bunkers in athlone, one of them good, the other one awful, so if I get a chance and a friend next week, I will try do up a video to show how I do it

Failing that, I'll be playing in the society a few times, so I'd be happy to try and help anyone out there aswell

GreeBo

AC do you ever practice your bunker shots (other than on the course)?
I have no problems with damp bunkers because i practice it, it's just another shot.
sure it's a little different than a fluffy lie, but so is the rough compared with the fairway.
wet sand makes long shots easier imo.

perhaps you do normally play on course with bad drainage?
i haven't played in what i would deem unplayable bunkers anywhere this year (barring those closed due to flooding of course)
to name 3: Grange, lisheen, Castleknock

charlieIRL

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

We have 2 practice bunkers in athlone, one of them good, the other one awful, so if I get a chance and a friend next week, I will try do up a video to show how I do it

Failing that, I'll be playing in the society a few times, so I'd be happy to try and help anyone out there aswell

the bad bunker is woeful alright!! Reminds me of palmerstown!!

give us a buzz if you want me to video it for ya.

Webbs

The sand traps in my view are a hazard and whilst I ideally want them on a course to be consistent then it doesnt matter if they are the fake sand of half the PGA tour, lovely fluffy sand or wet sand to make sandcastles in.

You have to adapt your shot making to the conditions. The Open at Lytham this year showed that sand traps can be pretty much full of water and are still in play. Its part of golf that we have different conditions, which is why I generally dont like watching PGA events over European Tour events as the conditions on the PGA are sterile in comparison.

The_Architect

Webbs wrote: »

The sand traps in my view are a hazard and whilst I ideally want them on a course to be consistent then it doesnt matter if they are the fake sand of half the PGA tour, lovely fluffy sand or wet sand to make sandcastles in.

You have to adapt your shot making to the conditions. The Open at Lytham this year showed that sand traps can be pretty much full of water and are still in play. Its part of golf that we have different conditions, which is why I generally dont like watching PGA events over European Tour events as the conditions on the PGA are sterile in comparison.

+1... I'm more concerned that the bunker is a proper hazard, that it is placed well and that it looks good

WH BONNEY

I accept that bunkers are hazards and as such if you go into one you cannot expect to have a perfect lie and stance etc. every time.

Our club recently redone all our bunkers in both design and the type of sand used.The issue I have with our course is that balls are constantly plugging in the bunkers. This can occur in the face of a bunker or in the pit of a bunker but it happens all too regular.

The net result is that you can be severely penalised and often end up with an unplayable lie. It can also be quite dangerous when trying to play a shot high up the face as you can easily lose your footing because of the sports screed underneath. For me when this occurs so often there is an issue with the fairness of the bunkers / course.

To me there is a clear issue with both the design and texture of the sand used in our bunkers. Unfortunately there is no acceptance from our course committee or green keeper that a problem exists so this will be an ongoing issue.

So I had two choices,

1. Make it a crusade of mine and work hard to try and change it and let it occupy my mind every time I am there.

2. Hold my breath every time I hit it into a bunker, hope for a half decent lie and don't let it bother you.

I choose the latter, the game is difficult enough without having this constantly on your mind and you may as well be pissing in the wind if you think you can change things in our place.

MP62

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Name 3 courses with decent bunkers. Just so we are clear on what a decent bunker is.

If you can't name three courses with decent sand bunkers then there really is no point.

slave1

The severe wet weather has played havoc with Irish courses this year, bunkers get destroyed when not allowed drain in an appropriate manner, I've never experienced a year with so many bunkers out of play or rake and place on outings, I think that needs to be taken into consideration.
Heritage is an extreme example of bunkers gone wrong, they should be one of the lasting features of the course (only one hole without bunkers) and instead they are the worst thing about the place and ruin your round.

GreeBo

WH BONNEY wrote: »

I accept that bunkers are hazards and as such if you go into one you cannot expect to have a perfect lie and stance etc. every time.

Our club recently redone all our bunkers in both design and the type of sand used.The issue I have with our course is that balls are constantly plugging in the bunkers. This can occur in the face of a bunker or in the pit of a bunker but it happens all too regular.

The net result is that you can be severely penalised and often end up with an unplayable lie. It can also be quite dangerous when trying to play a shot high up the face as you can easily lose your footing because of the sports screed underneath. For me when this occurs so often there is an issue with the fairness of the bunkers / course.

To me there is a clear issue with both the design and texture of the sand used in our bunkers. Unfortunately there is no acceptance from our course committee or green keeper that a problem exists so this will be an ongoing issue.

So I had two choices,

1. Make it a crusade of mine and work hard to try and change it and let it occupy my mind every time I am there.

2. Hold my breath every time I hit it into a bunker, hope for a half decent lie and don't let it bother you.

I choose the latter, the game is difficult enough without having this constantly on your mind and you may as well be pissing in the wind if you think you can change things in our place.

New bunkers will take a while to settle to avoid this, however I notice some course where either players or the groundstaff have a habit of raking sand up the sides/face of bunkers. Bunkers are (supposed to be!)
designed so that the majority of balls roll down to the bottom if the hit the face.

Alrite Chief

MP62 wrote: »

If you can't name three courses with decent sand bunkers then there really is no point.

Another fabulous contribution.

Thanks for all the other genuinely helpful replies.

pinseeker

Hey Alrite Chief,everyone might have there own little techniques but as long as your confident that's half the battle,doesn't prevent us from making complete balls of it from time to time:)

I will look to play the shot the same be it dry fluffy sand or heavy sand,might just vary the acceleration of swing,if a bunker did happen to be very hard and solid like you say then id be wary of showing to much bounce in that scenario.So often you see the club just bounce into the ball and it all goes wrong.

Alrite Chief

pinseeker wrote: »

Hey Alrite Chief,everyone might have there own little techniques but as long as your confident that's half the battle,doesn't prevent us from making complete balls of it from time to time:)

I will look to play the shot the same be it dry fluffy sand or heavy sand,might just vary the acceleration of swing,if a bunker did happen to be very hard and solid like you say then id be wary of showing to much bounce in that scenario.So often you see the club just bounce into the ball and it all goes wrong.

See thats exactly what i mean. The club will bounce unlike they way it will sweep under a good quality bunker. A thin shot that will either hit the wall of the bunker or fly out low through the green!! I just haven't got the confidence to apply that fully committed swing hitting behind the ball. I just feel i can trust the method of an open stance chip shot better. Try and make clean contact with the ball. Kind of the way you intend hitting from a fairway bunker from 100 odd yards in.

I find myself walking up to my ball in the bunker sucked of confidence. As Greebo says i should focus on practising more from them. Was just interested does anyone play them different.

GreeBo

Alrite Chief wrote: »

See thats exactly what i mean. The club will bounce unlike they way it will sweep under a good quality bunker. A thin shot that will either hit the wall of the bunker or fly out low through the green!! I just haven't got the confidence to apply that fully committed swing hitting behind the ball. I just feel i can trust the method of an open stance chip shot better. Try and make clean contact with the ball. Kind of the way you intend hitting from a fairway bunker from 100 odd yards in.

I find myself walking up to my ball in the bunker sucked of confidence. As Greebo says i should focus on practising more from them. Was just interested does anyone play them different.

If its rock hard then use your PW or LW. Bounce is your enemy in this scenario.

Btw I disagree that this is an issue of quality. No matter how good the bunker is, if its thumping down for a couple of days then the sand will get compressed and need to be raked with machinery. If you happen to be in it before this happens then thats just life I'm afraid. I've had rock hard bunkers in Druids Glen and Lough Erne due to time of year and weather.

Senna

I'll agree with practising in a wet bunker is the only help. My course has 360 days of compact wet bunkers (and they're never out of play) but the fluffy lie lob is probably the best mentality to take to them. i normally try and go in a 1/4 inch before the ball but not at a steep angle assuming its not rock hard. If rock hard i'll just pitch it like a bare lie shoot and just make sure it gets out.
If i can get the ball out successfully and once its anywhere on the dancefloor, i'll count it a success.

Senecio

My tips for playing out of wet sand.

Less bounce
Get yourself a SW (56 or 58) with 8 degrees of bounce or less. 10 degrees of bounce or higher is designed for dry, fluffy sand only.

Square or even slightly closed club face
You need to take any bounce completely out of play and ensure that the leading edge makes contact with the sand first. This is the only way to get the club face under the surface of the sand. If the back edge of the sole makes contact first the club will simply skid into the back of the ball. Think about playing it as if it were plugged.

Enjoy