Miles per week for A4 racing

John37

Just looking for opinions as to what distance I should ideally over cycle per week between now and next March when Summer time starts back in order to prepare for A4 racing and to complete the Wicklow 200 whih is another goal. I currently cover at least 250km per week between commutin and training but may have to reduce this over the winter and commute less with the dark evenings drawn in. What would be the minimum mileage I should do?

Raam

John37 wrote: »

What would be the minimum mileage I should do?

All of them.

Hmmzis

There was a thread about preparing for A4 not so long ago and the consensus there was that it's about the quality of the miles rather than quantity. Based on that thread I ordered up 'The Cyclist's Training Bible' by Joe Friel and I'm currently in the process of reading it and getting my head in the right 'zone'.

According to that book now is the time to be putting in base miles/endurance. Zone two riders of a few hours each. If time is a concern then a little intensity increase can compensate, or at least that's what my current understanding is.

Another very important thing is recovery, it's probably the most neglected thing in my cycling garden and I'm probably not the only with that problem.

It seems to be a good book and has tons of details and graphs and plans and diagram and other stuff.

Aaah, just beware, it might make you buy a power meter

kenmc

Hmmzis wrote: »

There was a thread about preparing for A4 not so long ago and the consensus there was that it's about the quality of the miles rather than quantity. Based on that thread I ordered up 'The Cyclist's Training Bible' by Joe Friel and I'm currently in the process of reading it and getting my head in the right 'zone'.

According to that book now is the time to be putting in base miles/endurance. Zone two riders of a few hours each. If time is a concern then a little intensity increase can compensate, or at least that's what my current understanding is.

Another very important thing is recovery, it's probably the most neglected thing in my cycling garden and I'm probably not the only with that problem.

It seems to be a good book and has tons of details and graphs and plans and diagram and other stuff.

Aaah, just beware, it might make you buy a power meter

you seem to have gotten further than I did, any chance of some cheatsheets?

Ryder

For a4, or even most sportives, I think a 2-3 hr endurance ride should be enough.....or at least I have never seen/unaware that more makes a difference

John37

Ryder wrote: »

For a4, or even most sportives, I think a 2-3 hr endurance ride should be enough.....or at least I have never seen/unaware that more makes a difference

How many of these endurance rides should you do and can it be split up i.e 1 hour in the morning and the other in the evening

Lumen

Why would you commute less when it's dark?

Dowee

Lumen wrote: »

Why would you commute less when it's dark?

As the day's get shorter, so too do the distances between any two given places. It's basic physics for God sake!

Hungrycol

Ryder wrote: »

For a4, or even most sportives, I think a 2-3 hr endurance ride should be enough.....or at least I have never seen/unaware that more makes a difference

What's an endurance ride?! Every ride for me is an endurance ride! :pac:

kennyb3

Just do some intervals and hill repeats and you can prob get away with doing about 5/6 hours a week.

colm_gti

It's hard to say what training you need to do if you don't really know where you're at to be honest. You should definitely think about joining a club with a bit of racing background anyway, now is the best time to do it with the weekend club spins really kicking off this/next month.

Maybe it was just me, but I feel I've benefited greatly from the first (half) season I've done, it's given me an idea as to what to expect in a race, and what I need to target with training in order to be more competitive next year. You're not going to be majorly competitive in your first few races, don't be worried about getting dropped, just use it as motivation to hang on for dear life next time and learn how to cycle in a bunch.

lennymc

id echo what colm gti said. Also, what do you want out of racing. If its to sit in and finish with the pack, then there would be different training to wanting to go and win (IMHO).

I did my first half season this year, and will be doing the full season next year. Talking to someone who knows what they are talking about is a must, and training with people makes it a whole heap easier. As a guide, im doing about 10 - 15 hrs per week at the moment, mixed between easy rides, and harder rides, and includes a couple of 2 hour commutes and longer spins at the weekend. Im lucky in that a commute to work is the guts of 4 hours training. Im doing that once a week, but will build it up to twice and probably three times a week before next season. I have lights for the dark.

manwithaplan

colm_gti wrote: »

You're not going to be majorly competitive in your first few races,

You might be. Are you any good?

You need a good set of lights, some fleecy bib tights, nice warm gloves, woolly socks, overshoes, warm base layers and good winter jacket. The winter day is then just as long as the summer one. Get out for a couple of 2 hour rides during the week as well as your commute. Get a good long spin in at the weekend. Don't worry at this stage about speed - just keep up a good cadence and don't dawdle. You could push up the odd hill in a big gear staying in the saddle (this helps build power) but leave the serious hill repeats and intervals until after christmas.

Start racing as soon as the season starts - that will bring you on better than any amount of training. When you start racing, be safe but don't be afraid to have a go. You have as much right to be there as anyone else and you should get everything you can out of the experience.

lennymc

manwithaplan wrote: »

Start racing as soon as the season starts - that will bring you on better than any amount of training. When you start racing, be safe but don't be afraid to have a go. You have as much right to be there as anyone else and you should get everything you can out of the experience.

and this. best training for racing is racing. you just work that bit harder that its very hard (imho) to replicate in training.

colm_gti

manwithaplan wrote: »

You might be. Are you any good?

Sorry, that was a very general statement, some people are more blessed/prepared than others

daragh_

I think anyone who is contemplating A4 Racing next year should be doing around 500k per week over the winter.

You should supplement that with some long Turbo Sessions and Mountain Biking at the weekends (both days).

Ideally all of this will be on steel framed bikes with fully loaded panniers (bricks if available).

You might consider dieting at the same time.


Hopefully you'll be so burned out by the time racing season rolls around I'll be in with a chance :-)

colm_gti

daragh_ wrote: »

I think anyone who is contemplating A4 Racing next year should be doing around 500k per week over the winter.

You should supplement that with some long Turbo Sessions and Mountain Biking at the weekends (both days).

Ideally all of this will be on steel framed bikes with fully loaded panniers (bricks if available).

You might consider dieting at the same time.


Hopefully you'll be so burned out by the time racing season rolls around I'll be in with a chance :-)

Will you shush and stop telling everyone about my training plan for the winter Daragh! Though I don't know where you're getting mountain biking from, I definitely said CX...

michael196

manwithaplan wrote: »

You might be. Are you any good?

You need a good set of lights, some fleecy bib tights, nice warm gloves, woolly socks, overshoes, warm base layers and good winter jacket. The winter day is then just as long as the summer one. Get out for a couple of 2 hour rides during the week as well as your commute. Get a good long spin in at the weekend. Don't worry at this stage about speed - just keep up a good cadence and don't dawdle. You could push up the odd hill in a big gear staying in the saddle (this helps build power) but leave the serious hill repeats and intervals until after christmas.

Start racing as soon as the season starts - that will bring you on better than any amount of training. When you start racing, be safe but don't be afraid to have a go. You have as much right to be there as anyone else and you should get everything you can out of the experience.

to OP John37 :

this is pretty accurate in a nut shell .....

would add if ur 'training' group, start to race at any session between now and end of january... just let them off ......

Long steady distance .........this time of year

killalanerr

wouldn agree with this the odd bit of a blow in zone 4/5 would do you no harm .but no i wouldn over do it

Lusk Doyle

daragh_ wrote: »

I think anyone who is contemplating A4 Racing next year should be doing around 500k per week over the winter.

You should supplement that with some long Turbo Sessions and Mountain Biking at the weekends (both days).

Ideally all of this will be on steel framed bikes with fully loaded panniers (bricks if available).

You might consider dieting at the same time.


Hopefully you'll be so burned out by the time racing season rolls around I'll be in with a chance :-)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Lusk Doyle

killalanerr wrote: »

wouldn agree with this the odd bit of a blow in zone 4/5 would do you no harm .but no i wouldn over do it

I hate this zone 4/5 bull****. Just go out and ride hard some times and not so hard other times. The more you do it, the better you get. Heart rate watching annoys me. :mad:

Raam

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

I hate this zone 4/5 bull****. Just go out and ride hard some times and not so hard other times. The more you do it, the better you get. Heart rate watching annoys me. :mad:

You'd be surprised how effective a training tool it can be.

Slo_Rida

I'm going through the same HRM dilemma at the minute. Lusk Doyle could be right...just go out and ride.

@John37
I'm in the same position as you, preparing for my first season racing. I started a thread here to see what people on boards had to say:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056711514
The I took all that advice and got some books and I've 6 weeks of "training" done now. Here's my training log:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056765322
My advice (though I'm no expert):
Strong long spin on Saturday, recovery spin on Sunday and 2 good turbo sessions during the week are essential. Then try and get "something" done on the other 3 days be it swimming or running or a core strength/gym session.
Another way to describe the above routine:
n-1 training sessions where n=number of sessions that gets you divorced.
Happy days!!

Lusk Doyle

Raam wrote: »

You'd be surprised how effective a training tool it can be.

I never questioned the effectiveness of it. Please read my posts more carefully Raam, if that is your real name!?!

Beasty

It must have been hell being brought up in the same household as you Lusk Doyle ...

Raam

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

I never questioned the effectiveness of it. Please read my posts more carefully Raam, if that is your real name!?!

Oh I read it very carefully. Structured training is excellent for improving your performance. In the absence of a PM, heart rate is very useful for aiding that structured training. I tried the unstructured stuff for long enough, then I went with specific work outs in targeted zones. I know which worked better for me.

Lusk Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

It must have been hell being brought up in the same household as you Lusk Doyle ...

Yea they were all ****.

Lumen

Perceived effort also works well with structure; structure doesn't imply gadgets.

That said, the point of structured training is that you're getting maximum effect with minimum recovery. If you have loads of time and are not pushing the limits of recovery then there isn't really much point.

It's a bit like time management or household budgeting. If you've loads of time and money they're of arguable benefit. I imagine.

killalanerr

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

I hate this zone 4/5 bull****. Just go out and ride hard some times and not so hard other times. The more you do it, the better you get. Heart rate watching annoys me. :mad:

What ever works for you my little skinny pal,
i have seen some good improvements over the last while so i will do whats good for me,its all one big science experiment no one size fits all

Lusk Doyle

killalanerr wrote: »

What ever works for you my little skinny pal,
i have seen some good improvements over the last while so i will do whats good for me,its all one big science experiment no one size fits all

I'm actually bigger than you old timer!

C3PO

My "Mountain Bikers Training Bible" has a lot of discussions about Training Zones, Training Periods etc! I'm going to really give it a go this year!

But in the back of my mind I keep thinking about Eddy Merckx's thoughts on the subject ...... "Ride Lots!"

John37

So the general conscnesus is a min of 200km per week. Also what speed should I beaveraging on the road when training. Would 28km per hour be to slow

Morrisseeee

What exactly is the science behind "takin it easy for the winter", "building a base", "train in Zone 2" ?!
ie. I find it hard to stay in zone 2 (or a relatively low HR) during a spin, mainly because I have a limited training time, ie. usually between 1 to 3 hrs, and I'd like to get the most out of the time I have. Also I like to ride at a certain pace, any slower and I'm questioning my sanity ! .......

DirkVoodoo

John37 wrote: »

So the general conscnesus is a min of 200km per week. Also what speed should I beaveraging on the road when training. Would 28km per hour be to slow

I'd probably be aiming more at "time in the saddle" rather than strictly on distance.

As for the speed, almost meaningless. 28 km/hr is quite fast solo, but is this on flat roads? Tail wind? Your speed isn't as important as the effort, the idea of a winter training plan is to structure your effort into various activities: endurance, speed skills, etc.

Friel is also a big fan of spending time in the gym over winter and cross training.

Go out and ride your bike for 8 hours a week, you will get better. Build up the miles, don't worry too much about speed but maybe incorporate some drills to help cadence/pedal stroke.

That's my thinking anyway, 0 successful winters under my belt, so take it with a pinch of salt.

Beasty

There is no "one size fits all" solution to this. I think buffalo mentioned earlier in the year that he had done virtually no winter training and was still racing well enough to get himself promoted to A3 this year.

I take a different approach - most of my training is, by necessity on my commutes - 40 minute to 1hr+ or relatively intensive workouts (with turbo work/gym bikes thrown in when it's icy or if I'm away on business). That works for me - overall I get a lot of distance in (I tend to average 1,000km+ per month over the winter months) and I maintain fitness throughout the winter. However I'm relatively new to this game, and I'm sure there are ways in which I can improve my overall results. So far I've improved my fitness, my racing skils, and my results each year - so long as I keep seeing progress I'll adopt a similar approach, with refinements to try and deal with areas of weakness have identified. This winter I'll be focussing on increasing pedalling speed - hopefully I will see some benefits from that next year.

C3PO

Beasty wrote: »

..... overall I get a lot of distance in (I tend to avearge 100km+ per month over the winter months) and I maintain fitness throughout the winter.

I'm guessing that there is a "0" missing here?

Beasty

C3PO wrote: »

I'm guessing that there is a "0" missing here?

My statement is factually correct, as is yours ... (it goes between the 1st and 2nd ones)

bcmf

My only advice on this topic is this >considering I haven't raced at all (except for 2 efforts last year) in several millennia<
Invest in a set of rollers. Why? I found that when I spent winter training on the rollers it improved my pedalling style, my cadence and my balance by a huge amount. Its also less boring (but still boring) then a turbo as you need to keep some sort of attention on what you are doing otherwise you will fall off..
As said earlier you cant really replicate race pace other then being in an actual race or in a group doing race training. This is where you will get the speed into your legs.

Beasty

bcmf wrote: »

you need to keep some sort of attention on what you are doing otherwise you will fall off.

Good for getting a bit of practice in (falling off practice that is:))

bcmf wrote: »

As said earlier you cant really replicate race pace other then being in an actual race or in a group doing race training. This is where you will get the speed into your legs.

The "Skerries to Dublin commuting group" is a good way to practice racing;)

bcmf

Beasty wrote: »

Good for getting a bit of practice in (falling off practice that is:))

Well falling off a set of rollers is totally different to falling off on the road .....or so I am told .

Raam

bcmf wrote: »

Well falling off a set of rollers is totally different to falling off on the road .....or so I am told .

You've no momentum for a start, well, very little.

bcmf

Raam wrote: »

You've no momentum for a start, well, very little.

Exactly.

12 sprocket

Circa 200 k per week which is probably around 6-7 hrs for most people should be fine. Especially if the principles that the A4 grade is founded on, THat is that its for beginners who race restricted distances.

However if someone is coming from a running or triathlon back ground less cycling and maintenance of all round fitness should be ok.

Its far more important to join a club or cycling group and learn the skills of the sport for rider safety and ability to get get shelter in groups when racing.